Opinion. You are not the arbiter of what constitutes gender.
You did dispute that:
PAWrocka said:
It's Pride Week at Clemson University
- Thread starter GoodWord28
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Opinion. You are not the arbiter of what constitutes gender.
You did dispute that:
Thanks. Simply applying what I learned at Clemson in abnormal psychology
Suicide is a fatal symptom of depression. Depression could potentially have a high co-morbidity with being transgender, and I would assume that it is highly correlated with being socially outcast as transgender.
Nobody is trying to say that someone with a penis or a vagina isn’t a male or female. But it is simply undeniable that the chemistry in the brain can cause the person to see themselves and take on societal behaviors that would classify themselves as the other gender. Thus, transgender. Gender is a social construct. The behaviors and customs associated with male and female gender are dictated by society, as a product of anatomy.
A normally functioning transgender adult does not have a mental illness. End of story. There is simply no argument
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If you think this country is crazy now with the Hippies currently running it, wait until the people my age start holding offices.
Yeah... going to be fun.
Yeah... going to be fun.
Not really: https://www.fastcompany.com/4044192...re-is-no-such-thing-as-a-male-or-female-brain
https://qz.com/1057494/the-biggest-myth-about-our-brains-is-that-theyre-male-or-female/
https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/part-three-gender-identity-sexuality-and-gender
Also, this is a pretty odd thing to believe if you're of the opinion that gender is socially constructed. And even if there somehow were male and female brains, this wouldn't refute the idea that gender dysphoria is a mental illness, because, after all, mental illness also affects the brain (or, the brain affects mental illness). As far as your idea about what's a mental illness and what isn't, isn't gender dysphoria maladaptive anxiety about your perceived sex differing from your birth sex? Aren't we told that it's harmful not to allow these people to live as their perceived sex? How could it be harmful if the only problems come from "transphobia" and they haven't even begun living as the opposite sex?
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Wasn't his point that the "gay rights" agenda has largely accomplished everything they wanted in a relatively short period of time involving a fraction of the debate and effort that was involved in the struggle for black civil rights? I'm sure he would largely agree that gay people already had the rights that black people had to fight for.
What's your point? The conclusion from your article says that discrimination etc probably counts for some of the increased risk but not all of it. Did anyone claim that they only reason that the LGBT community has higher suicide rates is discrimination?
I take a Libertarian approach to this one. You wanna be a giraffe, you go be a giraffe.
I largely agree with what you're saying. The fairly rapid shift of the non-TI public perception of the gay community is quite remarkable. I would not say that the fight is over, however. Sexual orientation is not federally protected by anti-discrimination laws so it's a bit of an overstatement to say they got "everything" they wanted when what they got was "it's no longer illegal to be gay" and "gay people can get married too". (Obviously not an exhaustive list and I do not mean to diminish the significance of those).
If you've been reading this branch of this discussion, actually what was being asserted was that transgenderism couldn't be a mental illness because the only reason for the higher suicide rates was that people were being "transphobic." The person making that assumption was trying to say that the suicidality wasn't linked to the condition of thinking you're a different sex than you are because that would mean thinking you're a different sex than you are is maladaptive, hence a mental illness.
Of course, everyone but you would know you weren't really a giraffe. The trouble comes when you start using the law to make everybody treat you as a giraffe, including your parents and doctors, and when you suppress discussion of and studies on whether you might not be a giraffe because you claim those would just be too distressing to your long, delicate neck.
I absolutely am against government compelled speech and the like. That said, put in the time and effort to look like a giraffe and you aren't gonna have any problems.
Nope. I don't think that was his point. I think he was trying to be funny and I'm ok with that. And think for a second. A fraction of the effort and debate for fraction of the problem. Sounds about right. They literally had nothing to complain about "in comparison". I walked 10 meters quicker than you walked that mile. While both are clearly challenges the two struggles are not even a little bit alike in terms of anything substantial. But again he was prob saying it tongue in cheek. My comment was for anyone who thought that it might be true.
I must have missed where that particular claim was made. I did see someone suggest that there are transgenedered individuals who otherwise show no signs of mental illness and, as such, should not be considered mentally ill. Do you feel like someone who has gender reassignment surgery and is completely happy is someone who is mentally ill?
The problem would be that you still aren't a giraffe, people will notice that, and some others might not want to participate in your giraffian delusion.
Hey, I put the onus on the Giraffe to make us believe it.
I'm at a loss as to how someone can make the claim that transgenderism doesn't involve mental illness when the "transgendered" person themselves claim that they need to live as another gender in order to relieve their gender dysphoria. As has already been discussed, it appears their suicidality actually doesn't decrease after gender "reassignment" surgery, and in fact many people who have the surgery regret it later on.
And that's completely setting aside the fact that it's impossible to change your sex. You can only perceive yourself as a different sex and have others treat you that way. The part about having others treat you that way is the source of the claim that the only real problem a person who's living as the opposite sex has is the treatment of others.
Oh, I totally agree. I don't even think the two situations should be compared, and I think the only reason people do that is in order to borrow prestige from the black civil rights struggle.
I've been keeping up with this tangent a little. I didn't get the idea that it was the only reason for higher rates as you said. I do believe the stress/bullying/judging contributed to the higher rates. If it was accepted, and by accepted I don't mean a complete societal shift because it goes against what I believe, but at the very least not treating them like trash or monsters, then they wouldn't kill themselves at the same rate. For example, if it was 100% acceptable would they be killing themselves at all or at any different rate than general population? That says it's not a disorder mentally but the issues come when others treat you a certain way. In my personal opinion something is definitely off when you wish to be another gender or no gender but I can't categorize it as a mental illness. Its something tho lol.
I'm with you here mostly. I'd be interested to see what we learn as we move forward with more info but I hesitate to simplify it and just say mental illness. It's something tho.
Honest question, where was it discussed about suicidal tendencies not decreasing after gender reassignment? I'd be interested to see stats on that.
Back to the topic. Gender dysphoria is "a psychological condition marked by significant emotional distress and impairment in life functioning, caused by a lack of congruence between gender identity and biological sex assigned at birth." If someone is able to dress as the gender they identify with and have HRT and be fine, then they don't have gender dysphoria.
Furthermore, why is wanting to change something about yourself a mental disorder? If you're overweight and bummed about it, do you have a mental disorder? What about someone who is way too skinny? Someone whose family forces them to be a religion they don't agree with? Is the only thing that makes being trans-gendered a mental disorder that people think they only way to treat is surgery?
On your last paragraph, so what? If they can obtain some relief from how they choose to perceive themselves and how they present to society, who are they hurting? Again, I am not claiming that poor treatment is the only reason for distress but I do think (and studies seem to suggest) that that is part of the equation.
Everything is something!! It's more a genetic thing or maybe a chemical imbalance. I seriously doubt it's a mental illness.
I have a very close friend that transitioned two years ago, and if anything, it has just made me realize that it doesn't really matter why. What matters is that each of us finds some kind of happiness in this life without infringing on the happiness of others.
Don't be a jerk and I will call you whatever you want to be called.
I'd be down for getting rid of all gendered pronouns. Don't get me wrong, it's not going to happen and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. However, I don't think having gendered pronouns is particularly useful and it would avoid some hurt feelings.
FWIW, I have a few friends who are gay and like I said they're my friends and that's all that matters to me.
No doubt. I kept getting in trouble in Brazil for not having my word endings enunciated clearly enough.
Yeah. Me too. Mine know I don't necessarily agree with the lifestyle but they don't do anything that disrespects me and same with me to them. Who the hell am I to judge. Works out well. I'm trying to get the plank out of my eye. Literally my eye because of my own sins related to me eyes lol.
Oh great. I know you weren't going there, but remember that when the offended feminists (or whoever it was) exerted great pressure and were successful to a large extent in changing language? A generic "he", became "he, she or it". Pathetic
It's earlier in this thread in a post by johnhugh.
Changing your weight is much different than changing your gender/sex, which should be rather obvious. Everything else you cited can actually be changed. Gender/sex cannot. Wanting to change something that you cannot change so much that you have extreme anxiety and are maladaptive is very clearly a mental illness. And how fine are people, really, if their level of suicidality doesn't change after surgery, if in order to maintain a passable level of cross-dressing you have to have multiple surgeries that cause your perfectly healthy body not to work properly, you have to have regular injections of HRT, and you require others to treat you as the gender you'd like to be?
Your last paragraph is where we should really be focusing our energies- on what therapies can help these people (at least the ones with real dysphoria, not the ones who've clearly glommed on to feminist gender theory). Unfortunately, the statistics show that gender "reassignment" surgery doesn't do much to quell people's anxiety, and in fact is often the subject of regret. Equally unfortunate is the fact that this has become a political subject because we're treating the issue as a matter of existential identity, rather than one in which gender "reassignment" surgery is a treatment for dysphoria. In this environment, anything other than "reassignment" and treating the person as the gender they want to be has been labeled "transphobic" since it broaches the possibility that person who identifies as "transgender" may not be whatever they want to be.
Finally, it seems like some people are unclear about what a diagnosable mental illness is. One person said that they think "it's more a genetic thing or maybe a chemical imbalance," as if those things were mutually exclusive with mental illness. That makes it seem like something is only a mental illness if it's something somebody chose to have. But mental illness is in the body, just like other illness. Many mental illnesses are genetic, and many involve chemical imbalances. But to be diagnosable, all that's required is behavior that violates a norm in society, is maladaptive, is rare given the context of the culture and environment, and is causing the person distress in their daily life.
So a mental illness is, in part, defined by how easy it is to change what's making you unhappy. That seems stupid to me but whatever. Plus, you CAN change things if you have gender dysphoria. Just because it's not changing "gender" how you define it doesn't mean something isn't done that's helpful. I asked you if someone was fine if they were presenting as the gender the identify with and you neglected to answer. "How fine are you, really, if in order to maintain weight loss you have to keep exercising and eating healthily so as to not feel like a fat ass?"
Again, I'd love to see some statistics on your second paragraph. "Many people" regretting a decision isn't a statistic, it's something Trump would say. "Many Republicans" are racists. "Many cops" abuse their power, steal drug money, and beat their spouses. Those are true statements but they are also useless.
Don't have any thoughts on your last paragraph, it's not really anything I've been talking about.
Also, here's a good example of the kind of tolerance being promoted under the banner of this kind of stuff: https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...llege-attacked-for-sharing-catholic-teaching/
Ugh, yeah. You can change your weight. You can't change whether you're Napoleon or not. Or whether you're a male or female. It's sort of strange that the importance of these facts needs to be pointed out.
But the fact that you can change how you feel about your gender doesn't way into this at all?
Also, I hope you'll respond to the rest of my post. I'm discussing with you because, by and large, you've always seemed to be a reasonable person and one of the posters I respect. There are a lot of putzes on this site that I wish I'd just ignore.
Outside of gathering menacingly outside of his door, what was done that wasn't also free speech?
EDIT: Also tearing down the board.
