OT - Elevation Church haters

[Mr. Clemson]

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by Mr. Clemson:

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by vatiger1:

acwill07 - so if you join a Church and it's small, say 200 people. Then in 5 years it grows to 15,000 people? Are you just going to stop giving?

I'm not sure if I follow your logic?

Originally posted by acwill07:
Anyone who gives 10% of what they make to one of these mega churches needs to get their head checked.

First of all, I would not attend the church once it grew over 1000 people or so, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not saying I would stop giving, but I certainly wouldn't give 10% of my income while listening to Perry Noble blither on like an idiot about how everyone who questions tithing 10% is "stupid."

My 10% shouldn't be going towards building extravegant houses for the preacher and making folks that work in the church administration rich. Also, I don't respect any preacher that refuses to preside over weddings and funerals for people in his/her congregation. Besides helping people grow in Christ, that's what preachers exist for. They are supposed to help bless families and help get them through tough times. I want a one on one relationship with my preacher. I want my preacher to baptize my son/daughter.

That's why I'm not giving 10% to a mega church. Perry Noble, Furtick, and others like them absolutely disgust me and are not men of God IMO.

Wow. You are so wrong in so many ways that I don't know how to address this ridiculous post. But I'll give it a shot...

If you are a Christian, then you should be ashamed of the bolded comment. Who are you to question their faith, especially since they are leading churches that are bringing 1,000s of people to Christ? I don't know Furtick or listen to his sermons, but I do know my pastor and know that he is absolutely, 100% a Christian. You may not like his stance on tithing (although it's also 100% biblically correct), his verbiage or delivery technique used during his sermons (have you even listened to a full sermon?), or the fact that he makes a good living doing the most important, eternally valuable thing you can on this planet, but you are a disgrace for a "Christian" if you truly believe what you just wrote about him not being a "man of God."

And a preacher does not exist to preside over your wedding and funeral and to help you grow with Christ. I seriously cannot stop shaking my head at the idiotic remarks in your post. A pastor's job is to preach the gospel and bring people to Christ, just as it is your job as a Christian (assuming you are a Christian). No different. Just because he is a pastor of a church as his profession and gets paid to preach the gospel does not mean that his job isn't to marry you or preach at your funeral. What an incredibly dumb and selfish statement. You should learn from a pastor's messages, but it is your job to spend time daily reading your Bible, praying, and going deeper with your relationship with Christ. That is not a pastor's job, nor can he do that for you. Good grief.


This post was edited on 4/28 5:14 PM by Mr. Clemson

1. LOL at the bolded passage. You've really bought into Perry's Old Testament Tithing rap. He's got you hook line and sinker. Folks also sacrificed their children in the old Testament.....are you doing that too? And before you tell me that tithing 10% is in the New Testament I can go ahead and tell you that every passage I've ever read in the NT that people claim proves it's law to tithe 10% is beyond a reach. I can't wait to read the NT scripture that you cite that actually makes no reference to tithing 10%, but since Perry said it in his sermon I'm sure it must be true.

2. Question my Christianity all you want, but I know who I am. How can you possibly think it's idiotic to expect my preacher to baptize my child or marry my children or pray with my family when one of our own is on their deathbed? That's what preachers are supposed to do. In your world it sounds like you think a preacher works one day a week, gives a sermon and then his job is done. If you really believe that a preacher's ONLY job is to it to preach the Gospel and bring people to Christ then you are the idiot here. Sure, that's a preacher's #1 job, but a real man of God who cares about his congregation does so much more than that.

I really pity you Newspringers. God bless you.

Let's just agree to disagree on tithing 10% and it absolutely being Biblical and not just an OT covenant. It's fine for a preacher to do those things, but that's not what his main purpose is for. And, of course I don't think he just works one day. Listen, I disagree with so much of what you post (and not just on this topic), so I don't feel like getting into a back-and-forth on an internet message board with you. But you can "pity" us "NewSpringers" all you want, that's fine. Keep attacking churches…real Christ-like. We will keep growing and reaching thousands for Christ. Carry on.

Oh, I just noticed something. Do you live in Pawleys? My wife's family is from Pawleys, so we're down there a good bit. Maybe we can have lunch and a beer and talk in person. I'd be glad to do that and talk about this stuff face-to-face instead of via an internet board.

 

[acwill07]

Originally posted by Mr. Clemson:

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by Mr. Clemson:

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by vatiger1:

acwill07 - so if you join a Church and it's small, say 200 people. Then in 5 years it grows to 15,000 people? Are you just going to stop giving?

I'm not sure if I follow your logic?

Originally posted by acwill07:
Anyone who gives 10% of what they make to one of these mega churches needs to get their head checked.

First of all, I would not attend the church once it grew over 1000 people or so, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not saying I would stop giving, but I certainly wouldn't give 10% of my income while listening to Perry Noble blither on like an idiot about how everyone who questions tithing 10% is "stupid."

My 10% shouldn't be going towards building extravegant houses for the preacher and making folks that work in the church administration rich. Also, I don't respect any preacher that refuses to preside over weddings and funerals for people in his/her congregation. Besides helping people grow in Christ, that's what preachers exist for. They are supposed to help bless families and help get them through tough times. I want a one on one relationship with my preacher. I want my preacher to baptize my son/daughter.

That's why I'm not giving 10% to a mega church. Perry Noble, Furtick, and others like them absolutely disgust me and are not men of God IMO.

Wow. You are so wrong in so many ways that I don't know how to address this ridiculous post. But I'll give it a shot...

If you are a Christian, then you should be ashamed of the bolded comment. Who are you to question their faith, especially since they are leading churches that are bringing 1,000s of people to Christ? I don't know Furtick or listen to his sermons, but I do know my pastor and know that he is absolutely, 100% a Christian. You may not like his stance on tithing (although it's also 100% biblically correct), his verbiage or delivery technique used during his sermons (have you even listened to a full sermon?), or the fact that he makes a good living doing the most important, eternally valuable thing you can on this planet, but you are a disgrace for a "Christian" if you truly believe what you just wrote about him not being a "man of God."

And a preacher does not exist to preside over your wedding and funeral and to help you grow with Christ. I seriously cannot stop shaking my head at the idiotic remarks in your post. A pastor's job is to preach the gospel and bring people to Christ, just as it is your job as a Christian (assuming you are a Christian). No different. Just because he is a pastor of a church as his profession and gets paid to preach the gospel does not mean that his job isn't to marry you or preach at your funeral. What an incredibly dumb and selfish statement. You should learn from a pastor's messages, but it is your job to spend time daily reading your Bible, praying, and going deeper with your relationship with Christ. That is not a pastor's job, nor can he do that for you. Good grief.


This post was edited on 4/28 5:14 PM by Mr. Clemson

1. LOL at the bolded passage. You've really bought into Perry's Old Testament Tithing rap. He's got you hook line and sinker. Folks also sacrificed their children in the old Testament.....are you doing that too? And before you tell me that tithing 10% is in the New Testament I can go ahead and tell you that every passage I've ever read in the NT that people claim proves it's law to tithe 10% is beyond a reach. I can't wait to read the NT scripture that you cite that actually makes no reference to tithing 10%, but since Perry said it in his sermon I'm sure it must be true.

2. Question my Christianity all you want, but I know who I am. How can you possibly think it's idiotic to expect my preacher to baptize my child or marry my children or pray with my family when one of our own is on their deathbed? That's what preachers are supposed to do. In your world it sounds like you think a preacher works one day a week, gives a sermon and then his job is done. If you really believe that a preacher's ONLY job is to it to preach the Gospel and bring people to Christ then you are the idiot here. Sure, that's a preacher's #1 job, but a real man of God who cares about his congregation does so much more than that.

I really pity you Newspringers. God bless you.

Let's just agree to disagree on tithing 10% and it absolutely being Biblical and not just an OT covenant. It's fine for a preacher to do those things, but that's not what his main purpose is for. And, of course I don't think he just works one day. Listen, I disagree with so much of what you post (and not just on this topic), so I don't feel like getting into a back-and-forth on an internet message board with you. But you can "pity" us "NewSpringers" all you want, that's fine. Keep attacking churches…real Christ-like. We will keep growing and reaching thousands for Christ. Carry on.

Oh, I just noticed something. Do you live in Pawleys? My wife's family is from Pawleys, so we're down there a good bit. Maybe we can have lunch and a beer and talk in person. I'd be glad to do that and talk about this stuff face-to-face instead of via an internet board.

I do live in Pawleys.

Perhaps I am being too harsh. You are right, it's not very Christ-like, and I shouldn't worry about what other people do so I'll quit posting on this topic and we can agree to disagree (on this and whatever other topics you disagree with me about). It just occurred to me that there's no reason for me to be antagonistic on this message board toward other Christians on the topic of their Christianity.

 

[vatiger1]

Fair enough acwill07. That is your opinion and I respect it.

I guess my question not just for you but for everyone on this thread.

Does everyone understand what it means to "tithe"?. Regardless of the size of the Church or the salary of any Preacher. It's written well before Moses what God demands is his.

It doesn't matter where, that is any Christians desire the where. What's important is the commitment to fulfill what God states is his.

 

[Mr. Clemson]

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by Mr. Clemson:

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by Mr. Clemson:

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by vatiger1:

acwill07 - so if you join a Church and it's small, say 200 people. Then in 5 years it grows to 15,000 people? Are you just going to stop giving?

I'm not sure if I follow your logic?

Originally posted by acwill07:
Anyone who gives 10% of what they make to one of these mega churches needs to get their head checked.

First of all, I would not attend the church once it grew over 1000 people or so, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not saying I would stop giving, but I certainly wouldn't give 10% of my income while listening to Perry Noble blither on like an idiot about how everyone who questions tithing 10% is "stupid."

My 10% shouldn't be going towards building extravegant houses for the preacher and making folks that work in the church administration rich. Also, I don't respect any preacher that refuses to preside over weddings and funerals for people in his/her congregation. Besides helping people grow in Christ, that's what preachers exist for. They are supposed to help bless families and help get them through tough times. I want a one on one relationship with my preacher. I want my preacher to baptize my son/daughter.

That's why I'm not giving 10% to a mega church. Perry Noble, Furtick, and others like them absolutely disgust me and are not men of God IMO.

Wow. You are so wrong in so many ways that I don't know how to address this ridiculous post. But I'll give it a shot...

If you are a Christian, then you should be ashamed of the bolded comment. Who are you to question their faith, especially since they are leading churches that are bringing 1,000s of people to Christ? I don't know Furtick or listen to his sermons, but I do know my pastor and know that he is absolutely, 100% a Christian. You may not like his stance on tithing (although it's also 100% biblically correct), his verbiage or delivery technique used during his sermons (have you even listened to a full sermon?), or the fact that he makes a good living doing the most important, eternally valuable thing you can on this planet, but you are a disgrace for a "Christian" if you truly believe what you just wrote about him not being a "man of God."

And a preacher does not exist to preside over your wedding and funeral and to help you grow with Christ. I seriously cannot stop shaking my head at the idiotic remarks in your post. A pastor's job is to preach the gospel and bring people to Christ, just as it is your job as a Christian (assuming you are a Christian). No different. Just because he is a pastor of a church as his profession and gets paid to preach the gospel does not mean that his job isn't to marry you or preach at your funeral. What an incredibly dumb and selfish statement. You should learn from a pastor's messages, but it is your job to spend time daily reading your Bible, praying, and going deeper with your relationship with Christ. That is not a pastor's job, nor can he do that for you. Good grief.


This post was edited on 4/28 5:14 PM by Mr. Clemson

1. LOL at the bolded passage. You've really bought into Perry's Old Testament Tithing rap. He's got you hook line and sinker. Folks also sacrificed their children in the old Testament.....are you doing that too? And before you tell me that tithing 10% is in the New Testament I can go ahead and tell you that every passage I've ever read in the NT that people claim proves it's law to tithe 10% is beyond a reach. I can't wait to read the NT scripture that you cite that actually makes no reference to tithing 10%, but since Perry said it in his sermon I'm sure it must be true.

2. Question my Christianity all you want, but I know who I am. How can you possibly think it's idiotic to expect my preacher to baptize my child or marry my children or pray with my family when one of our own is on their deathbed? That's what preachers are supposed to do. In your world it sounds like you think a preacher works one day a week, gives a sermon and then his job is done. If you really believe that a preacher's ONLY job is to it to preach the Gospel and bring people to Christ then you are the idiot here. Sure, that's a preacher's #1 job, but a real man of God who cares about his congregation does so much more than that.

I really pity you Newspringers. God bless you.

Let's just agree to disagree on tithing 10% and it absolutely being Biblical and not just an OT covenant. It's fine for a preacher to do those things, but that's not what his main purpose is for. And, of course I don't think he just works one day. Listen, I disagree with so much of what you post (and not just on this topic), so I don't feel like getting into a back-and-forth on an internet message board with you. But you can "pity" us "NewSpringers" all you want, that's fine. Keep attacking churches…real Christ-like. We will keep growing and reaching thousands for Christ. Carry on.

Oh, I just noticed something. Do you live in Pawleys? My wife's family is from Pawleys, so we're down there a good bit. Maybe we can have lunch and a beer and talk in person. I'd be glad to do that and talk about this stuff face-to-face instead of via an internet board.

I do live in Pawleys.

Perhaps I am being too harsh. You are right, it's not very Christ-like, and I shouldn't worry about what other people do so I'll quit posting on this topic and we can agree to disagree (on this and whatever other topics you disagree with me about). It just occurred to me that there's no reason for me to be antagonistic on this message board toward other Christians on the topic of their Christianity.

I apologize as well. I didn't mean to snap back, and I just realized it's not you I was thinking about when I said I disagree with you on a lot of things - my fault. Seriously, I would love to meet you one day perhaps in Pawleys. I love that place!!

FWIW, Delvin Choice is one of the finalists on The Voice and he sings at our church. Awesome, awesome voice and person!

 

[TAINT_PAINT]

Originally posted by Mr. Clemson:

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by Mr. Clemson:

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by Mr. Clemson:

Originally posted by acwill07:

Originally posted by vatiger1:

acwill07 - so if you join a Church and it's small, say 200 people. Then in 5 years it grows to 15,000 people? Are you just going to stop giving?

I'm not sure if I follow your logic?

Originally posted by acwill07:
Anyone who gives 10% of what they make to one of these mega churches needs to get their head checked.

First of all, I would not attend the church once it grew over 1000 people or so, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not saying I would stop giving, but I certainly wouldn't give 10% of my income while listening to Perry Noble blither on like an idiot about how everyone who questions tithing 10% is "stupid."

My 10% shouldn't be going towards building extravegant houses for the preacher and making folks that work in the church administration rich. Also, I don't respect any preacher that refuses to preside over weddings and funerals for people in his/her congregation. Besides helping people grow in Christ, that's what preachers exist for. They are supposed to help bless families and help get them through tough times. I want a one on one relationship with my preacher. I want my preacher to baptize my son/daughter.

That's why I'm not giving 10% to a mega church. Perry Noble, Furtick, and others like them absolutely disgust me and are not men of God IMO.

Wow. You are so wrong in so many ways that I don't know how to address this ridiculous post. But I'll give it a shot...

If you are a Christian, then you should be ashamed of the bolded comment. Who are you to question their faith, especially since they are leading churches that are bringing 1,000s of people to Christ? I don't know Furtick or listen to his sermons, but I do know my pastor and know that he is absolutely, 100% a Christian. You may not like his stance on tithing (although it's also 100% biblically correct), his verbiage or delivery technique used during his sermons (have you even listened to a full sermon?), or the fact that he makes a good living doing the most important, eternally valuable thing you can on this planet, but you are a disgrace for a "Christian" if you truly believe what you just wrote about him not being a "man of God."

And a preacher does not exist to preside over your wedding and funeral and to help you grow with Christ. I seriously cannot stop shaking my head at the idiotic remarks in your post. A pastor's job is to preach the gospel and bring people to Christ, just as it is your job as a Christian (assuming you are a Christian). No different. Just because he is a pastor of a church as his profession and gets paid to preach the gospel does not mean that his job isn't to marry you or preach at your funeral. What an incredibly dumb and selfish statement. You should learn from a pastor's messages, but it is your job to spend time daily reading your Bible, praying, and going deeper with your relationship with Christ. That is not a pastor's job, nor can he do that for you. Good grief.


This post was edited on 4/28 5:14 PM by Mr. Clemson

1. LOL at the bolded passage. You've really bought into Perry's Old Testament Tithing rap. He's got you hook line and sinker. Folks also sacrificed their children in the old Testament.....are you doing that too? And before you tell me that tithing 10% is in the New Testament I can go ahead and tell you that every passage I've ever read in the NT that people claim proves it's law to tithe 10% is beyond a reach. I can't wait to read the NT scripture that you cite that actually makes no reference to tithing 10%, but since Perry said it in his sermon I'm sure it must be true.

2. Question my Christianity all you want, but I know who I am. How can you possibly think it's idiotic to expect my preacher to baptize my child or marry my children or pray with my family when one of our own is on their deathbed? That's what preachers are supposed to do. In your world it sounds like you think a preacher works one day a week, gives a sermon and then his job is done. If you really believe that a preacher's ONLY job is to it to preach the Gospel and bring people to Christ then you are the idiot here. Sure, that's a preacher's #1 job, but a real man of God who cares about his congregation does so much more than that.

I really pity you Newspringers. God bless you.

Let's just agree to disagree on tithing 10% and it absolutely being Biblical and not just an OT covenant. It's fine for a preacher to do those things, but that's not what his main purpose is for. And, of course I don't think he just works one day. Listen, I disagree with so much of what you post (and not just on this topic), so I don't feel like getting into a back-and-forth on an internet message board with you. But you can "pity" us "NewSpringers" all you want, that's fine. Keep attacking churches…real Christ-like. We will keep growing and reaching thousands for Christ. Carry on.

Oh, I just noticed something. Do you live in Pawleys? My wife's family is from Pawleys, so we're down there a good bit. Maybe we can have lunch and a beer and talk in person. I'd be glad to do that and talk about this stuff face-to-face instead of via an internet board.

I do live in Pawleys.

Perhaps I am being too harsh. You are right, it's not very Christ-like, and I shouldn't worry about what other people do so I'll quit posting on this topic and we can agree to disagree (on this and whatever other topics you disagree with me about). It just occurred to me that there's no reason for me to be antagonistic on this message board toward other Christians on the topic of their Christianity.

I apologize as well. I didn't mean to snap back, and I just realized it's not you I was thinking about when I said I disagree with you on a lot of things - my fault. Seriously, I would love to meet you one day perhaps in Pawleys. I love that place!!

FWIW, Delvin Choice is one of the finalists on The Voice and he sings at our church. Awesome, awesome voice and person!

 

[Clemson81]

Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:

Originally posted by Clemson81:

Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Nice try.
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law?justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things." Matthew 23:23 (NLT)

The words in this passage were spoken by Jesus. The underlined part seems pretty clear to me

lmao at the new living translation. I see what they did there. You see, this is the problem with taking the Bible or its "translations" literally.

I read the NASB. It is, to my knowledge, most accurate to the original manuscripts. I'm done arguing this point. God knows your heart and I don't so God bless you.

 

[chapintiger]

Originally posted by twtiger03:

Originally posted by chapintiger:

Originally posted by twtiger03:



Yes, I am a member of NewSpring. I see where much of my hard earned money goes everytime I go to church. I see the multiple campuses, the service that the band and video guys put on everyweek, the resources put out for visitors, the production that goes into teaching thousands of kids each week about Jesus, the summer beach trip each year for the youth, the shoes for the local school kids, the money/partnership to help others plant churches in places like Israel, Estonia, Kenya, UK.

NewSpring puts out a financial book ever year that shows the churches income and where that money is spent. Sorry, but I don't carry this around in my back pocket. I do not recall it showing exactly how much the preacher or every member on staff makes. They do list how much money as a whole goes to staffing, but no what Joe Smith at the Greenville campus is making individually.

I understand your concern for my money. People are evil and greedy, I certainly understand that. You should have an idea where your money goes. I believe I have a good idea. This is my church. If I felt compelled to check every balance sheet and critique the spending of every dime, then I think that right there would tell me I need to find another church.

If you can't have some trust and faith in your own church to do what is right with your money, then why would you attend that church? I agree in wanting to know, and asking questions, but at some point you have to trust the leaders, or else why would you be giving them your money in the first place.

Do you know exactly how much your preacher makes, your assoc. pastor, your music director? Do you know what they spend their salary on? How do you decide for yourself if your church is spending too much in one area and not enough in another? Do you voice these concerns with your church leadership?

1. Yes. To the penny.

2. No and I don't care. They aren't building multimillion dollar homes. They live rather modestly. And because I know the answer to number 1 there is no appearance of impropriety.





This post was edited on 4/28 3:32 PM by chapintiger

Thanks for the response. I was hoping you wouldn't think I was asking that question just to be an @ss.

Not at all.

 

[rshbpbc]

I do a lot of speaking about the Bible, every Wednesday & Sunday, for 34 years as a pastor. That little defense of himself by Furtick didn't do one thing to get me focused on God, on love, on holiness, on unity, on the Bible, on prayer, or anything else that could be called positive, biblical, or wholesome. That was the words of a wounded man lashing out in anger because someone dared to challenge him. Not the work of the Holy Spirit, not the work of a clear conscious. Good Lord, please stay humble and broken before the Lord

 

[rshbpbc]

That was terrible

 

[88MechEng]

Originally posted by rshbpbc:
I do a lot of speaking about the Bible, every Wednesday & Sunday, for 34 years as a pastor. That little defense of himself by Furtick didn't do one thing to get me focused on God, on love, on holiness, on unity, on the Bible, on prayer, or anything else that could be called positive, biblical, or wholesome. That was the words of a wounded man lashing out in anger because someone dared to challenge him. Not the work of the Holy Spirit, not the work of a clear conscious. Good Lord, please stay humble and broken before the Lord

Exactly what I was thinking and well said. Also I don't think we would see Billy Graham putting out a video like that.

 

[ArmyTiger27]

Most accurate translation? You do realize the Bible wasn't written in English, correct?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[castlesl]

Haters going to Hate

A few thoughts.

Full Disclosure - I attend elevation and have for 8 years. I personally know the Pastor and most of the upper level staff.

I give of my time and my finances to elevation.

Pastor Steven has great integrity. He has also been paid very well to write 3 books. He makes less from the church than your average executive at a mid size company and he doesn't get a housing allowance, He gets a portion of his income untaxed and that is called a housing allowance.

Don't believe everything the news says. His salary isn't public knowledge, but there are many people who do know what he makes and not just a board of overseers. The news station was mad b/c the church wouldn't tell them.

He has been asked to write books b/c of his gifting and his ability to communicate very well with much passion. The growth of the church is a direct result of the utilization of that gift. I don't consider the money that he receives from writing the books to be income from the church.

I have been blessed financially over the last few years and was able to give a large amount of money to the church and my giving pales in comparison to Pastor Stevens (it isn't a contest - but the man puts his money where his mouth is - and i respect a pastor who is willing to give sacrificially, and he does now and always has, even when he didn't have nearly as much to give)

A Pastor encouraging his Flock to give a tithe (10%) and offering (above and beyond 10%) shouldn't be earth shattering. Every pastor should and most do preach the same thing. The point is, you either believe that it is an important part of living a life in Christ or you don't. I am blessed b/c of giving.

Elevation has taken heat for 8 years, first from the local churches in Charlotte b/c Elevation was different and growing when their churches were not growing. Elevation brought a different approach to ministry than the typical church. I had a front row seat to see how God used that to bring people to Himself , most of those people would not have bothered to attend a typical church. Now that pastor Steven has garnered national attention and written a few best selling books, the media wants in on the act too, most of the reporting has been filled with inaccuracies and outright lies.

If you want to take issue with the house go ahead, it is your prerogative. I can understand why some one may not like how it appears. I actually like the fact that Pastor Steven isn't influenced too greatly by what others might think. It makes him who he is and is a huge contributing factor in why Elevation is the fastest growing church ever in the US., over 16,000 people in attendance in under 8 years. I have been in the much publicized house and didn't think it was worth all the hub-hub. Yes it was nice, but it wasn't any nicer than most homes that i have seen in a typical semi-custom neighborhood. I have seen plenty of custom houses that are way nicer in every way. The house is a little larger than most, but the finishes are not what you might expect. If you think a pastor should live in shack, then you will think this is over the top. I don't think he should live in a shack.

The Haters are going to Hate - just a fact of life.

 

[rjohn19]

Re: Haters going to Hate

Over 16,000 in under 8 years? PT Barnum greatly underestimated the depth of the problem.

 

[Esso Porch]

Re: Haters going to Hate

Originally posted by castlesl:

If you want to take issue with the house go ahead, it is your prerogative. I can understand why some one may not like how it appears. I actually like the fact that Pastor Steven isn't influenced too greatly by what others might think. It makes him who he is and is a huge contributing factor in why Elevation is the fastest growing church ever in the US., over 16,000 people in attendance in under 8 years. I have been in the much publicized house and didn't think it was worth all the hub-hub. Yes it was nice, but it wasn't any nicer than most homes that i have seen in a typical semi-custom neighborhood. I have seen plenty of custom houses that are way nicer in every way. The house is a little larger than most, but the finishes are not what you might expect. If you think a pastor should live in shack, then you will think this is over the top. I don't think he should live in a shack.

The Haters are going to Hate - just a fact of life.

I was going to ridicule him until I heard about the average at best finishes. Thanks for bringing this to my attention castle

 

[BionicTiger]

Re: Haters going to Hate

Originally posted by Esso Porch:

Originally posted by castlesl:

If you want to take issue with the house go ahead, it is your prerogative. I can understand why some one may not like how it appears. I actually like the fact that Pastor Steven isn't influenced too greatly by what others might think. It makes him who he is and is a huge contributing factor in why Elevation is the fastest growing church ever in the US., over 16,000 people in attendance in under 8 years. I have been in the much publicized house and didn't think it was worth all the hub-hub. Yes it was nice, but it wasn't any nicer than most homes that i have seen in a typical semi-custom neighborhood. I have seen plenty of custom houses that are way nicer in every way. The house is a little larger than most, but the finishes are not what you might expect. If you think a pastor should live in shack, then you will think this is over the top. I don't think he should live in a shack.

The Haters are going to Hate - just a fact of life.

I was going to ridicule him until I heard about the average at best finishes. Thanks for bringing this to my attention castle

LOL at calling 16,000 square feet a little larger than most.

 

[appalachiatiger]

u gotta read the version prior to king james to get an accurate word

king james manipulated it

he was a gross disease i fested horn dog of a man

wouldnt trust anything that comes out of that mans mouth

king james lol

imagine obama putting forth his version

king obama version of the good book

 

[yoshi121374]

Do you really have to make every post about Obama?

 

[Taylors_Tiger]

Re: Haters going to Hate

So he "doesn't get a housing allowance" but part of his income is classified as housing allowance so it's untaxed? Sound legit to me and not shady at all.

 

[88MechEng]

Re: Haters going to Hate

castlesl, what are your thoughts about the video?

Over the last few years, I have listened to a few of Furtick's sermons and like them a lot. Good teaching and uplifting, as well as being well delivered. His sermon at Saddleback was one of the best during the time that Rick Warren was out last summer. Overall I have had a positive view of him an your church. The energy that the new churches are bringing is great.

Being in the same town as Newspring, I have heard the insults that are hurled at Perry Noble, so I am sure that Furtick and the staff have come under a lot of heat and criticism about their church. But it's hard to see that video other than being self serving to Furtick. It doesn't honor God and it surely doesn't keep the focus on Christ.

BTW, I have no problem with a pastor of a large church getting paid big $$. Those guys earn it. If he wants to buy a big house, then by all means he should be able to buy one. However, there are pitfalls with it. He will be criticized and will have to have skin thick enough to take it.
This post was edited on 4/29 7:00 AM by 88MechEng

 

[appalachiatiger]

so true

could have easily said king baby bush

he was much worse than king obama

 

[Charybdis]

Re: Haters going to Hate

The haters are going to hate.

Cool Afflicted shirt, bro.

 

[castlesl]

Re: Haters going to Hate

Like it or not, every ordained minister of every faith known to man in the United States does the same thing. So you are telling me you wouldn't claim some of your income as tax exempt if the government said you could? It isn't shady to only pay unto Caesar what Caesar has asked. Some one needs to get real.

This post was edited on 4/29 9:17 AM by castlesl

 

[castlesl]

Re: Haters going to Hate

What about the Video is wrong? You really need to understand the context. First it was created 4 years ago, and was done so when the calls from other churches in the region were the loudest that Elevation wasn't a real church and Pastor Furtick was not a man of God. Tell me you don't see time and time again in scripture where the Pharisees were called out for being myred in tradition and laws and not living life as they were called to, this isn't any different.

If you started a church and you believed God called you to minister in a little different way than most churches did, and then those other churches who really should be on the same team started throwing stones your way, wouldn't you tell them it was wrong to do so?

Like i said before, Pastor Steven doesn't care too much about what the outside world thinks about how they go about trying to change a city. He would be the first to tell you that they have made a lot of mistakes, but when they recognize it, they change it.

Side Note - I love Pastor Stevens' will to lead, He is a phenomenal builder of leaders. You will not find a man more gifted in calling out the potential in others, it is probably a stronger gift than his preaching ability.

This post was edited on 4/29 8:57 AM by castlesl

This post was edited on 4/29 9:11 AM by castlesl

 

[castlesl]

Re: Haters going to Hate

Thanks for being a smart ass, everybody has to be good at something. Ok, now i am being a smart ass.

This post was edited on 4/29 9:33 AM by castlesl

 

[bwhwc]

Re: Haters going to Hate

The people that blow their money on mega churches and the guys who went into the religion business to get rich that run them are no worse than people who blow their money on the lottery. Live and let live.

 

[castlesl]

Re: Haters going to Hate

LOL at your acceptance of that number as fact. The house is about 6,000 sf and that number includes a guest suite for visiting pastors. Do you always believe everything the news media says? The 16,000 sf number is a joke and it has been from day one. The lead reporter was shown everything but the blue prints to help him understand that what he planned to report was not accurate. Guess what, they reported it anyway.

 

[TAINT_PAINT]

Re: Haters going to Hate

Originally posted by castlesl:
What about the Video is wrong? You really need to understand the context. First it was created 4 years ago, and was done so when the calls from other churches in the region were the loudest that Elevation wasn't a real church and Pastor Furtick was not a man of God. Tell me you don't see time and time again in scripture where the Pharisees were called out for being myred in tradition and laws and not living life as they were called to, this isn't any different.

I love Pastor Stevens' will to lead, He is a phenomenal builder of leaders. You will not find a man more gifted in calling out the potential in others.

YOU SOUND LIKE THE GUY IN A PYRAMID SCHEME TRYING TO EXPLAIN HOW MUCH HE LIKES SOME USELESS PRODUCT AND HOW I SHOULD JUMP ON BOARD.

 

[castlesl]

Re: Haters going to Hate

Jump or don't Jump, I am not a changer of Hearts, just a follower of the Heart changer and a defender of what i know to be true. I didn't realize i was supposed to cower and let innuendo and half-truths go unchallenged.

 

[castlesl]

Re: Haters going to Hate

I have never seen a mega church that started as such. They all start with a few and either grow or don't grow. Do you really think a guy leaves a job to start a church to get rich? Doesn't every pastor want to have success, when did it become a problem if they had a lot of success?

See you are just like a lot of the others - you would think it was fine if your neighbor started a business and that business grew into one of the top businesses in the country. You might even say he was smart, brilliant even. You would probably say that he used sound practices and he was wise in his approach and the fruit of his labor was deserved.

But if it is a pastor, well, he is having too much success, he is now a chaser of money. Tell me where is the line that pastors need to stop growing so as not to offend you and be accused of being in the "religion business to get rich"

There are certainly people who may have started with good intentions that ended up chasing the money. Pastor Furtick isn't one of those guys. He drives a 7 year old nissan, his wife drives a 5 year old GMC. They do not live lives of excess and abundance. He has a nice house and that is where it starts and stops.

This post was edited on 4/29 9:13 AM by castlesl

 

[castlesl]

You make a lot of Bold statements with very little knowledge. Maybe you need to read a few stories, be careful about the stones you throw.

 

[SWUtigers]

Re: Haters going to Hate

Originally posted by castlesl:
A few thoughts.

Full Disclosure - I attend elevation and have for 8 years. I personally know the Pastor and most of the upper level staff.

I give of my time and my finances to elevation.

Pastor Steven has great integrity. He has also been paid very well to write 3 books. He makes less from the church than your average executive at a mid size company and he doesn't get a housing allowance, He gets a portion of his income untaxed and that is called a housing allowance.

Don't believe everything the news says. His salary isn't public knowledge, but there are many people who do know what he makes and not just a board of overseers. The news station was mad b/c the church wouldn't tell them.

He has been asked to write books b/c of his gifting and his ability to communicate very well with much passion. The growth of the church is a direct result of the utilization of that gift. I don't consider the money that he receives from writing the books to be income from the church.

I have been blessed financially over the last few years and was able to give a large amount of money to the church and my giving pales in comparison to Pastor Stevens (it isn't a contest - but the man puts his money where his mouth is - and i respect a pastor who is willing to give sacrificially, and he does now and always has, even when he didn't have nearly as much to give)

A Pastor encouraging his Flock to give a tithe (10%) and offering (above and beyond 10%) shouldn't be earth shattering. Every pastor should and most do preach the same thing. The point is, you either believe that it is an important part of living a life in Christ or you don't. I am blessed b/c of giving.

Elevation has taken heat for 8 years, first from the local churches in Charlotte b/c Elevation was different and growing when their churches were not growing. Elevation brought a different approach to ministry than the typical church. I had a front row seat to see how God used that to bring people to Himself , most of those people would not have bothered to attend a typical church. Now that pastor Steven has garnered national attention and written a few best selling books, the media wants in on the act too, most of the reporting has been filled with inaccuracies and outright lies.

If you want to take issue with the house go ahead, it is your prerogative. I can understand why some one may not like how it appears. I actually like the fact that Pastor Steven isn't influenced too greatly by what others might think. It makes him who he is and is a huge contributing factor in why Elevation is the fastest growing church ever in the US., over 16,000 people in attendance in under 8 years. I have been in the much publicized house and didn't think it was worth all the hub-hub. Yes it was nice, but it wasn't any nicer than most homes that i have seen in a typical semi-custom neighborhood. I have seen plenty of custom houses that are way nicer in every way. The house is a little larger than most, but the finishes are not what you might expect. If you think a pastor should live in shack, then you will think this is over the top. I don't think he should live in a shack.

The Haters are going to Hate - just a fact of life.

I've asked several owners of NewSpring a very simple answer and have YET to receive an answer but I'll ask you for shits and giggles; Since you are speaking from knowledge, how much does Furtick make?

 

[bwhwc]

If churches paid taxes like every other business, because lets face they are a business, reporters wouldn't investigate and people probably wouldn't care at all what pastors were able to "earn".

It does seem like a pyramid scheme when it's all about volume, bringing more people in so they will have treasures in heaven while doing very little of substance while here on earth.

 

[AikenTiger]

 

[castlesl]

Most business don't pay taxes, they have write offs galore. If you don't like it, vote politicians into office that will change it. It is all about volume b/c you declared it so? The number is just that, a number. It is a metric that says we are heading the right or the wrong direction. Elevation is heavily involved in giving away millions to the community and to programs to help the underprivileged and those that need help the most. By the way are you deciding what is and isn't substantive?

 

[scottbagwell]

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