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OT: Final Tax Plan Thoughts

How do you see this as a handout for the wealthy? My income varies depending on bonuses each year and when I just plugged in various incomes the higher my income went the more the new plan increased taxes?

It reduces their taxes more than it reduces the taxes of the middle and lower class. Both in absolute and relative terms. I'm having a hard time finding reputable sources for the newest version so I'll keep looking. If you take exception to me calling it a "handout" then fine. "The rich disproportionately benefit from this bill and I don't think that is worth a deficit increase."
 
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Inflation is a bigger problem than anything else when it comes to "entitlement" benefits because the value of those benefits constantly goes down...forcing increased spending on them to keep up.

That cuts both ways. The value of the money you're putting into it drops as well so you're basically paying the same. If inflation was the only issue then....well we wouldn't have any issues with it.
 
can you explain how we phase out Social Security? Start with our children, I assume. That drives me so nuts that the amount I have payed in, I am just as likely to not see as I am to see....I understand it is reaching a point where there will be too many drawing, but damnit, I put that money there and I want it back. Same with medicare tax...What would become of that? What would be the way to refund those monies if they were "phased away from"??

That is certainly a question requiring more thought and planning than I could ever dedicate to it. You have to start with increasing the age for benefits though. SS was started when the life expectancy was 61 years. Benefits kicked in at 65 years old. People mostly worked until they died, so SS was really only intended to cover a handful of years.

Today, people can get benefits at 62 and live until 92...

If the average life expectancy in the US was 61 years then and 79 years now (18 years longer) AND the initial payout for benefits was 65 years old, is it not reasonable to say that the initial payout for benefits today should be around 80 years old (a65 + 15 years to account for increase in life expectancy)? Maybe more?

We would need to phase that in over time of course. That phasing should take into account the amount you have contributed, to offset the "unfairness" of paying for a benefit that you will receive less than originally thought.

There isn't a great solution, but you have to start somewhere. Entitlements are the vast majority of our spending. We have to fix them. Hopefully this is a cautionary tale to not add additional entitlements - but we already saw college education touted as the next one in the last election cycle. Scary.
 
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Now that we have seen most of the combined plan, what are everyone's thoughts? In my original thread about the House version, most seemed to support the plan, but had concerns about repealing the Estate Tax, repealing AMT, adding to the national debt and potentially paying more due to the SALT exclusion.

Congressional Republicans have addressed the first two items by simply doubling the Estate Tax exemption. AMT also remains, but the law has been wisely changed so that it doesn't adversely impact those who were never its targets (i.e. folks making under $1M annually).

A HUGE improvement over the House plan is the revised tier structure borrowed mostly from the Senate bill. This prevents upper-middle and upper income folks from actually paying more after reform than before it. Now, only those in high-tax states should experience that effect.

Some basic benefits - reduced rates, higher standard deduction, more simple filing for vast majority of Americans, expanded child tax credit, reduced pass-thru taxes and a much lower corporate rate to drive economic expansion.

Added bonus - you can now use 529 plans to fund K-12 education. Little scotchtiger's grandparents all received a Future Scholar contribution form in advance of Christmas :).

Here's a calculator to estimate your personal impact. I come out quite a bit ahead even before factoring in benefits to pass through income, which will just help us even more. I would have likely lost under the House bill.

http://taxplancalculator.com/

Overall, I'm much happier with the final product than with the House bill. I would have preferred that they not touch the mortgage exemption, preserve more of the SALT deduction and reduce rates even more aggressively, but this is a step in the right direction. Now we need to work across aisles to reduce spending significantly.
Property taxes also fund K-12 education...
 
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529 is post tax, right??

No, you get the tax deduction when you contribute and then you pay no taxes when you realize gains and spend on something education related.

There are caps. I can't remember what they are.
 
The amount you can use on K-12 is capped at $10K per annum, and 529s are not pre-tax. The growth isn’t taxable. But, the monies going in are going to be post fed tax.

Are you sure? I always thought you got to deduct your contributions to a 529. Or at least reduce your taxable income. Maybe I am mistaken.
 
I don't believe that the tuition wavers would have affected your MBA. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that you already have to pay income taxes on your MBA tuition. The change would have required Grad Students (whose tuition is an extremely significant portion of their total compensation) to pay income taxes on the tuition benefit. I've never had a company sponsored graduate degree though; I'm just basing this off of my conversations with co-workers who are getting their MBA's through our employer.
You may be right, I had assumed it was taking away the tuition credit that allowed a person (or company) to write off x amount spent on tuition. Similar to the employer match for iptay donations, if the tax benefits to my employer for tuition went away, I’m sure they’d stop providing the benefit to employees.
 
You may be right, I had assumed it was taking away the tuition credit that allowed a person (or company) to write off x amount spent on tuition. Similar to the employer match for iptay donations, if the tax benefits to my employer for tuition went away, I’m sure they’d stop providing the benefit to employees.

I honestly have no idea if the employers contribution is tax advantaged or not. They can already write off your income (I think) but I'm not well versed on that side of things at all. You could be totally right.
 
It reduces their taxes more than it reduces the taxes of the middle and lower class. Both in absolute and relative terms. I'm having a hard time finding reputable sources for the newest version so I'll keep looking. If you take exception to me calling it a "handout" then fine. "The rich disproportionately benefit from this bill and I don't think that is worth a deficit increase."

This isn't true. I ran simulations on that calculator for my taxes and for the family of four making $75K. I see a single digit percent reduction and they see a 58% reduction (paid $3,558 before, pay $1,499 now).
 
This isn't true. I ran simulations on that calculator for my taxes and for the family of four making $75K. I see a single digit percent reduction and they see a 58% reduction (paid $3,558 before, pay $1,499 now).

I used your source and did a family of 4 filing jointly. If they make $75k they save $2,118 (2.8%). If they make $2,000,000 they save $60,497 (3.0%). I don't know why they deserve a bigger cut than the $75k family. A family making $1M would save 3.4%. A family making $50k would save 2.7%. This is all in SC, btw.

I think looking at it in terms of reduction of the percentage of taxes paid is unreasonable and misleading.
 
That is certainly a question requiring more thought and planning than I could even dedicate to it. You have to start with increasing the age for benefits though. SS was started when the life expectancy was 61 years. Benefits kicked in at 65 years old. People mostly worked until they died, so SS was really only intended to cover a handful of years.

Today, people can get benefits at 62 and live until 92...

If the average life expectancy in the US was 61 years then and 79 years now (18 years longer) AND the initial payout for benefits was 65 years old, is it not reasonable to say that the initial payout for benefits today should be around 80 years old (a65 + 15 years to account for increase in life expectancy)? Maybe more?

We would need to phase that in over time of course. That phasing should take into account the amount you have contributed, to offset the "unfairness" of paying for a benefit that you will receive less than originally thought.

There isn't a great solution, but you have to start somewhere. Entitlements are the vast majority of our spending. We have to fix them. Hopefully this is a cautionary tale to not add additional entitlements - but we already saw college education touted as the next one in the last election cycle. Scary.
Gotcha. No doubt it's an excruciatingly difficult question to answer...my thought is when my son goes to work in 6 years, I don't look forward to explaining why SS is taking a big chunk of his check when he will certainly never recoup it. So many tough questions and no doubt cuts will have to come. I just can't imagine what amount of growth absorbs the already existing debt, let alone what is coming down the line. Also, simply don't buy trickle down and don't believe there will be enough charity to help offset the suffering in the future. Call me Debbie Downer, I guess.
 
That cuts both ways. The value of the money you're putting into it drops as well so you're basically paying the same. If inflation was the only issue then....well we wouldn't have any issues with it.

That's why I originally said it requires more spending to keep up.
 
I was replying to someone who said there was no plan to cut spending there. If you think that those areas could use cuts then cutting them probably does make sense. I'd prefer for us to have a single payer system so the cuts don't sound as good to me. I'd much rather cut our military spending than Medicare.

FLaw47, you stated cuts to the program. I merely referred to the article you linked stating that improper and wasteful spending would be the target of cuts. Where is the problem with that? I don't share your apparent belief that the government need be the controller of all things good in our country. I also accept responsibility for what my needs may be later in life and am planning not to rely on government programs. That doesn't mean elimination of programs for those that are truly needy and incapable of faring for themselves.

N---
 
I used your source and did a family of 4 filing jointly. If they make $75k they save $2,118 (2.8%). If they make $2,000,000 they save $60,497 (3.0%). I don't know why they deserve a bigger cut than the $75k family. A family making $1M would save 3.4%. A family making $50k would save 2.7%. This is all in SC, btw.

I think looking at it in terms of reduction of the percentage of taxes paid is unreasonable and misleading.

Why is that misleading? I ran the following scenarios:
  • The family of 4 in my example paid $1,500 in taxes (2%) - down from $3,600 (5%).
  • A family of 4 making $500K would pay about $115K in taxes (23%) - down from $120K (24%)
  • A family of 4 making $1 million would pay about $287K in taxes (29%) - down from $299K (30%)

How on earth is that system unfair to the $75K household? They are barely paying anything in taxes now and got a bigger percentage reduction than wealthier families.
 
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Why is that misleading? I ran the following scenarios:
  • The family of 4 in my example paid $1,500 in taxes (2%) - down from $3,600 (5%).
  • A family of 4 making $500K would pay about $115K in taxes (23%) - down from $120K (24%)
  • A family of 4 making $1 million would pay about $287K in taxes (29%) - down from $299K (30%)

How on earth is that system unfair to the $75K household? They are barely paying anything in taxes now and got a bigger percentage reduction than wealthier families.

Because who cares how much of my tax burden went away??? What matters is how much more money I have to spend. In this tax plan, the wealthy keep a higher percentage of their income (relative to the status quo) than poor and middle class people do. It's not unfair, it's just stupid. We don't need to go further into debt to give a disproportionate benefit to people who make over $1M a year.
 
Because who cares how much of my tax burden went away??? What matters is how much more money I have to spend. In this tax plan, the wealthy keep a higher percentage of their income (relative to the status quo) than poor and middle class people do. It's not unfair, it's just stupid. We don't need to go further into debt to give a disproportionate benefit to people who make over $1M a year.

We must be looking at different numbers. $75K couple kept $2,100 more, which is 2.8% of their income. $1 million couple kept $12K more, which is 1.2% of their income.

The middle class couple keeps a higher percentage of their income in their pocket as a result of this plan compared to the wealthy family.

And oh by the way, we're only asking the middle class family to kick in 2% of their income to support the country as opposed to 20-30% for higher earners.
 
Because who cares how much of my tax burden went away??? What matters is how much more money I have to spend. In this tax plan, the wealthy keep a higher percentage of their income (relative to the status quo) than poor and middle class people do. It's not unfair, it's just stupid. We don't need to go further into debt to give a disproportionate benefit to people who make over $1M a year.

How is that true? If we are basing our assumptions on the tax calculator in the OP, then when I increase my salary projections the amount paid increases relative to status quo and it decreases at lower salary assumptions. I think you are stuck on a narrative that is not expressed in the facts.

Now if you want to make a case that the rich benefit more because they own a higher percentage of corporations both public and private and will benefit from the reduced corporate tax, then you may have a point. But the math does no bear out on the individual tax.
 
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We must be looking at different numbers. $75K couple kept $2,100 more, which is 2.8% of their income. $1 million couple kept $12K more, which is 1.2% of their income.

The middle class couple keeps a higher percentage of their income in their pocket as a result of this plan compared to the wealthy family.

And oh by the way, we're only asking the middle class family to kick in 2% of their income to support the country as opposed to 20-30% for higher earners.

$1,000,000 for me shows $34,497 when I do it. South Carolina, Married Filing Jointly, 2 kids. That's all I changed.
 
$1,000,000 for me shows $34,497 when I do it. South Carolina, Married Filing Jointly, 2 kids. That's all I changed.

If you make $1M, you are going to itemize and have a lot of other deductions. You have to factor that in. Try it with itemization, $10K in property taxes, $50K in other itemizations. Your example isn't considering the full benefit that they were receiving in deductions before reform. Savings should be $11,507. That's a more realistic view.
 
I honestly have no idea if the employers contribution is tax advantaged or not. They can already write off your income (I think) but I'm not well versed on that side of things at all. You could be totally right.
I'm 99.9% sure it is, up to a certain amount. I think it's around $5200 per student that they can write off. I know anything they pay above that amount gets added in as taxable income for me. I wouldn't have a clue why they would pay for education if there wasn't some tax incentive for it.
 
Because who cares how much of my tax burden went away??? What matters is how much more money I have to spend. In this tax plan, the wealthy keep a higher percentage of their income (relative to the status quo) than poor and middle class people do. It's not unfair, it's just stupid. We don't need to go further into debt to give a disproportionate benefit to people who make over $1M a year.
speak for yourself. I don't need to give more of my income to your stupid programs or some government department that wastes ridiculous amounts.
 
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I used your source and did a family of 4 filing jointly. If they make $75k they save $2,118 (2.8%). If they make $2,000,000 they save $60,497 (3.0%). I don't know why they deserve a bigger cut than the $75k family. A family making $1M would save 3.4%. A family making $50k would save 2.7%. This is all in SC, btw.

I think looking at it in terms of reduction of the percentage of taxes paid is unreasonable and misleading.
We must be looking at different numbers. $75K couple kept $2,100 more, which is 2.8% of their income. $1 million couple kept $12K more, which is 1.2% of their income.

The middle class couple keeps a higher percentage of their income in their pocket as a result of this plan compared to the wealthy family.

And oh by the way, we're only asking the middle class family to kick in 2% of their income to support the country as opposed to 20-30% for higher earners.

This tax cut was originally suppose to make the US more competitive with the rest of the world from a business standpoint. It was not originally anything more than a corporate tax cut. But they could not sell it without including a personal tax cut.
 
speak for yourself. I don't need to give more of my income to your stupid programs or some government department that wastes ridiculous amounts.

I am speaking for myself, you putz. This is a thread about how we feel about the tax bill. I stated my opinions and told some people where I thought their facts were not correct.
 
This tax cut was originally suppose to make the US more competitive with the rest of the world from a business standpoint. It was not originally anything more than a corporate tax cut. But they could not sell it without including a personal tax cut.

The GOP has been marketing it as a middle class tax cut. I was just trying to point out where that was inaccurate. Believe it or not, I'm not completely against the idea of reducing the corporate tax rate. I am incredibly skeptical that it will benefit anyone but shareholders but there are enough economists who say it's a good idea that I'm open minded to it. The reduction in the corporate rate should be offset somewhere else, though, and it is not here. I imagine the majority of those low corporate tax rate countries have a substantial VAT tax, which does not exist here.
 
@scotchtiger

SOME THINK THERE IS A DECENT CHANCE THAT:
  • THERE WILL BE NO STIPULATION AS TO HOW THE CORPORATE TAX SAVINGS ARE SPENT.
  • YES, SOME ARE REINVESTED BUT A GOOD CHUNK GOES TO THE ELITE EXECS AND SHAREHOLDERS
  • WE PILE UP MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF NATIONAL DEBT WHILE INCOME INEQUALITY SOARS
  • INDIVIDUAL CUTS EXPIRE IN 2025 AND ARE NOT RENEWED
  • AT THE SAME TIME, CORPORATE RATES REMAIN AT THE SAME
  • TAXES ARE EVEN HIGHER IN 2026 FOR INDIVIDUALS B/C NATIONAL DEBT IS NOW 100% OF GDP
DOOMSDAY SCENARIO FOR SURE, BUT IT COULD HAPPEN.

ENTITLEMENTS ARE A PROBLEM. BUT SO IS MILITARY SPENDING. IT'S FUNNY THAT THE MILITARY HAD TO HAVE ANOTHER 60 BILLION BUT WE CAN'T FIND MONEY FOR THE CHIP PROGRAM (THIS IS A PROGRAM FOR KIDS. KIDS SHOULD BE LEFT OUT OF THIS BS - THEY CAN'T HELP IT).

I AM PRETTY HAPPY THAT I'M GETTING MORE OF MY MONEY IN MY POCKET. I JUST WONDER WHY WE NEED THIS SO BADLY, RIGHT NOW. THE MARKET IS ROARING, CORP PROFITS ARE HEALTHY, UNEMPLOYMENT IS REALLY LOW. I JUST CAN'T SEE WHY WE'RE MAKING A 1-2 TRILLION GAMBLE RIGHT NOW....
 
why do the individual cuts sunset and not corporate, would be my question? I get that businesses make long term investments and need assurance of what they should expect their liability to be, but don't individuals also? Also,leery of looming cuts to medicare and or medicaid. Not a financial expert, so not able to get too deep into this discussion, but I do find those aspects disconcerting. Particularly cuts to medicare, as my parents depend on that a good bit. Like I have suggested to my wife, any benefit we gain will probably be negligible over time...My bosses should make more money, I assume I will get a little bit larger increase annually, but at the end of the day, we will do what we do regardless....I don't see the amount that I likely will save being consequential enough to laud the plan and I feel uneasy about where the inevitable cuts will come from.

See Byrd rule as to why they did it. Basically they didn't have the votes to prevent a filibuster if they didn't include the sunset. Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 had similar provisions, and were later made permanent. Similar to Bush-era tax cuts, I think it's the goal of the Republicans to eventually make it permanent, but they didn't want a filibuster to bring the bill to a creep.
 
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Now that we have seen most of the combined plan, what are everyone's thoughts? In my original thread about the House version, most seemed to support the plan, but had concerns about repealing the Estate Tax, repealing AMT, adding to the national debt and potentially paying more due to the SALT exclusion.

Congressional Republicans have addressed the first two items by simply doubling the Estate Tax exemption. AMT also remains, but the law has been wisely changed so that it doesn't adversely impact those who were never its targets (i.e. folks making under $1M annually).

A HUGE improvement over the House plan is the revised tier structure borrowed mostly from the Senate bill. This prevents upper-middle and upper income folks from actually paying more after reform than before it. Now, only those in high-tax states should experience that effect.

Some basic benefits - reduced rates, higher standard deduction, more simple filing for vast majority of Americans, expanded child tax credit, reduced pass-thru taxes and a much lower corporate rate to drive economic expansion.

Added bonus - you can now use 529 plans to fund K-12 education. Little scotchtiger's grandparents all received a Future Scholar contribution form in advance of Christmas :).

Here's a calculator to estimate your personal impact. I come out quite a bit ahead even before factoring in benefits to pass through income, which will just help us even more. I would have likely lost under the House bill.

http://taxplancalculator.com/

Overall, I'm much happier with the final product than with the House bill. I would have preferred that they not touch the mortgage exemption, preserve more of the SALT deduction and reduce rates even more aggressively, but this is a step in the right direction. Now we need to work across aisles to reduce spending significantly.


Purchase your KY gel and condoms cause you are getting ready to take it in the ass. This bill is bad business. Anyone that thinks it will create jobs has been smoking excellent mushrooms.

Only Trump and his rich cronies will benefit from this, andthey will rake it in.
 
Now that we have seen most of the combined plan, what are everyone's thoughts? In my original thread about the House version, most seemed to support the plan, but had concerns about repealing the Estate Tax, repealing AMT, adding to the national debt and potentially paying more due to the SALT exclusion.

Congressional Republicans have addressed the first two items by simply doubling the Estate Tax exemption. AMT also remains, but the law has been wisely changed so that it doesn't adversely impact those who were never its targets (i.e. folks making under $1M annually).

A HUGE improvement over the House plan is the revised tier structure borrowed mostly from the Senate bill. This prevents upper-middle and upper income folks from actually paying more after reform than before it. Now, only those in high-tax states should experience that effect.

Some basic benefits - reduced rates, higher standard deduction, more simple filing for vast majority of Americans, expanded child tax credit, reduced pass-thru taxes and a much lower corporate rate to drive economic expansion.

Added bonus - you can now use 529 plans to fund K-12 education. Little scotchtiger's grandparents all received a Future Scholar contribution form in advance of Christmas :).

Here's a calculator to estimate your personal impact. I come out quite a bit ahead even before factoring in benefits to pass through income, which will just help us even more. I would have likely lost under the House bill.

http://taxplancalculator.com/

Overall, I'm much happier with the final product than with the House bill. I would have preferred that they not touch the mortgage exemption, preserve more of the SALT deduction and reduce rates even more aggressively, but this is a step in the right direction. Now we need to work across aisles to reduce spending significantly.
At the end of the day it is still a very bad deal for the American people. The average American is getting a tax cut that will not significantly impact their lives. Meanwhile we are adding over $1 trillion to the national debt when the vast majority of that $1 trillion in debt will simply find its way to the pockets of the top 1%.

I approve of corporate tax cuts, because they were needed and have potential to drive investment. Corporate tax rates were too high. But the tax cuts for corporations were not structured in a way to ensure investment in America or American workers. Its no different than NAFTA, etc. that heavily benefited the wealthy and CEOs and left the American worker holding the bag.

And how does Trump campaign hard to eliminate the carried interest loop hole that only benefits hedge fund managers and the like because it was obscenely bad and then leave the loop hole in place? It's one of the things I was on board with him about, but he didn't carry through. I'll tell you how, those hedge fund managers threw him a $100k per plate fund raiser in NYC and stroked his ego. This is a loop hole that will save some individuals over $100 million annually for a single tax payer! And the average American is supposed to be excited about a few hundred bucks or even a grand?

Here is what we should have done if we were going to add $1 Trillion to the debt. Instead of sending the vast majority of that money to the wealthy we should have invested in infrastucture that is sorely lacking. Public investment outside of defense is at the lowest it has been in 6 decades. The World Bank just looked at the world's top 50 countries and found that the U.S. will have the largest unmet infrastructure needs over the next 20 years of any country it looked at. Our economy will be at a severe disadvantage as a result.

Meanwhile R&D spending by the U.S. is at an all time low as a percentage of GDP. It's what has allowed us to lead the world's economies but we are now spending at a miniscule rate in that area as a federal government. Meanwhile the Chinese, South Korean and German governments are ramping up their R&D spending in technology and biomedical research as well as infrastructure that will enhance their ability to attract investment and create new economies for their people.

If the White House or the republicans wanted to really benefit the American worker and not just scratch the backs of the wealthy campaign donors they could have invested that $1 Trillion in America's future. Infrastructure spending would have directly been tied to American job creation and increased wages. Our highways, bridges and electrical grid could have seen huge upgrades in the process, setting us up to be more competitive with the rest of the world. We could have increased technology infrastructure and made a real difference for not just busnesses but the American public.

Instead, we have further sabotaged the Affordable Care Act which already had major flaws that needed repair and Americans will pay even more for skyrocketing health insurance due to elimination of the mandate instead of fixing healthcare. 13 million Americans who may save $500 to $1,000 will have no insurance as a reward. Premiums for those who do will increase.

The vast majority of these tax cuts go to the very wealthy. We will now see Congress turn their eyes to make even deeper cuts in R&D, continue to punt infrastructure, and will eventually see them take aim at Social Security and Medicare in the name of cutting spending and reducing the deficit. A deficit they just added $1 Trillion dollars to with this tax cut plan!

I would gladly let them keep my measly tax cut if it m Robert Mercer would not be walking away with a 8 to 9 digit tax savings above and beyond what he should. My little bit of tax savings from this bill would go much further if it was invested along with the other $1 Trillion in meaningful infrastructure and technology upgrades we sorely need. Or better yet if it meant drastic social security and Medicare cuts to programs that millions of Americans depend on could be avoided or lessened. Now that the elite have their tax cut at the expense of adding over $1 Trillion to the debt, they'll become hawkish on the deficit and target those programs that are essential to millions upon millions.

When Social Security and Medicare benefits are drastically cut, remember this $1 Trillion dollars and remember those hedge fund managers who were paying $100k per plate to wine and dine Trump. Remember the billionaire Koch brothers who will never need a drop of social security or Medicare but will bank millions upon millions from this tax deal.
 
Democrats in the house and Senate that are voting no on this should be a wake up call for those still supporting that party.

Who would you rather spend your money? You or the government?
 
Now that we have seen most of the combined plan, what are everyone's thoughts? In my original thread about the House version, most seemed to support the plan, but had concerns about repealing the Estate Tax, repealing AMT, adding to the national debt and potentially paying more due to the SALT exclusion.

Congressional Republicans have addressed the first two items by simply doubling the Estate Tax exemption. AMT also remains, but the law has been wisely changed so that it doesn't adversely impact those who were never its targets (i.e. folks making under $1M annually).

A HUGE improvement over the House plan is the revised tier structure borrowed mostly from the Senate bill. This prevents upper-middle and upper income folks from actually paying more after reform than before it. Now, only those in high-tax states should experience that effect.

Some basic benefits - reduced rates, higher standard deduction, more simple filing for vast majority of Americans, expanded child tax credit, reduced pass-thru taxes and a much lower corporate rate to drive economic expansion.

Added bonus - you can now use 529 plans to fund K-12 education. Little scotchtiger's grandparents all received a Future Scholar contribution form in advance of Christmas :).

Here's a calculator to estimate your personal impact. I come out quite a bit ahead even before factoring in benefits to pass through income, which will just help us even more. I would have likely lost under the House bill.

http://taxplancalculator.com/

Overall, I'm much happier with the final product than with the House bill. I would have preferred that they not touch the mortgage exemption, preserve more of the SALT deduction and reduce rates even more aggressively, but this is a step in the right direction. Now we need to work across aisles to reduce spending significantly.

Overall, I think there were some good things done through the bill, and some things that I think that don't do anything to simplify things.

I think that the corporate income tax has needed to come down for some time. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and other pro-business groups tried to get the Obama administration to do something about it for 8 years to no avail, but then the Dems are shocked when tax Inversions started happening and large companies started being bought by smaller companies overseas in countries that have a more competitive tax structure. There's around $2 trillion dollars that's sitting in cash on US company balance sheets overseas that execs don't want to bring back into the US because they don't want to pay an additional 35% on money that has already been taxed overseas. With the reduction in the tax rate, plus a strong US dollar compared to foreign currencies, US companies will want to bring that money back into the US. When that happens, 21% of that $2 trillion (by my math that's $420 Billion) will go to the US government and companies will put that money to work in the US, instead of it sitting on the sidelines. Big thing though, is long-term we're more competitive from a business standpoint.

On the individual side of things...

- AMT was increasingly becoming a problem that was affecting people that it was never really designed to affect, ie the middle class. The new bill will reduce that substantially.

-I think the increased standard tax deduction and doubling of the Child Tax Credit will help a lot of middle class families. Likewise to the tax bracket haircuts.

-I'm fine with there being some kind of estate tax for huge estates in order to not create dynasties or whatever, but in my opinion the estate tax limits were too low and still had the ability to affect the middle class. Now, if you're married, you have to have an estate of in excess of $22.4 million for this affect you, which is fine by me.

-I'm fine with 529s being able to be used for k-12 private school and homeschooling expenses, but I don't know why they didn't phaseout the Coverdell. Seems to me, the majority of it's usefulness is not there anymore. 529s can now take care of most of the issues that the Coverdell does and then some, with a contribution limit 7x higher.

Things I think are gonna cause problems:
- I think the 20% tax reduction to Pass-through entities is a great idea, but the exclusion of "specified business entities," including health, law, accounting, actuarial sciences, performing arts, consulting, athletics, and financial services is going to have the effect of larger businesses in these fields that are in the 37% tax brackets restructuring to C-corps in order to take advantage of the new lower corporate tax rates.

-The capital gains rates now do not line up perfectly with individual tax rates, which I think will cause confusion.

Anyway, this is way too long, and probably no one cares what I think, but there ya go :)
 
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Purchase your KY gel and condoms cause you are getting ready to take it in the ass. This bill is bad business. Anyone that thinks it will create jobs has been smoking excellent mushrooms.

Only Trump and his rich cronies will benefit from this, andthey will rake it in.

Thanks for the substance. Doesn't seem anti-trump at all.
 
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Why is that misleading? I ran the following scenarios:
  • The family of 4 in my example paid $1,500 in taxes (2%) - down from $3,600 (5%).
  • A family of 4 making $500K would pay about $115K in taxes (23%) - down from $120K (24%)
  • A family of 4 making $1 million would pay about $287K in taxes (29%) - down from $299K (30%)

How on earth is that system unfair to the $75K household? They are barely paying anything in taxes now and got a bigger percentage reduction than wealthier families.

Come on man. You would be hard pressed to find someone earning $1,000,000 per year in w2 income that was not earning 2 to 3 times that much in dividend income from stocks and investments. Comparing W2 income only is just to simple.

This tax break largely benefits big corporations and their shareholders. Trump and the GOP have constantly said "small businesses are the backbone of the US economy". But their actions largely benefit the big corporations that fund their campaigns. To be fair, the democrats are pretty much the same way.

I am not sure how this bill affects me b/c I understand that lawyers, cpas and consultants would be omitted from the lower pass through rate. The IRS classifies me as a consultant.
 
Instead, we have sabotaged the Affordable Care Act and Americans will pay even more for skyrocketing health insurance due to elimination of the mandate instead of fixing healthcare. 13 million Americans who may save $500 to $1,000 will have no insurance as a reward.

I also think it was dumb for Congress to include the individual mandate in the bill, as it should have been dealt with in an actual health care bill. Let's be real though and not pretend that the Affordable Care Act was this super successful healthcare program prior to this new tax bill. It was neither affordable nor offered great care and it was in the process of imploding by itself. Premiums have been soaring for years now, insurers have been bailing because they were losing their shirts, the Obama administration could never get enough young people to sign up to float all the unhealthy people that were coming onto the exchanges (which I think high-risk pools would've been a better way to go with the sick and uninsurable). I've seen a single mom making around 40k a year have her insurance premium double (along with her deductible) when she got insurance on the exchanges and then have that plan fight her like crazy on necessary procedures when she was having all these funky stomach issues.

Also, let's don't pretend that the 13 million people that no longer are on Obamacare as a result of removing the individual mandate are people that would've been saving $500-$1000. The reason removing the individual MANDATE creates 13 million more uninsured people is that healthcare is no longer MANDATED and people are not seeing the corresponding value to keep expensive, crappy insurance policies. If they were truly saving $500-1000 they wouldn't be leaving. Now I will agree that this most likely will increase cost to the rest of the people on the exchanges (like I said I don't think this was a wise idea) because the people that are leaving the exchanges are the healthy people, but to be clear the people that are leaving are not the ones that are saving $.
 
I also think it was dumb for Congress to include the individual mandate in the bill, as it should have been dealt with in an actual health care bill. Let's be real though and not pretend that the Affordable Care Act was this super successful healthcare program prior to this new tax bill. It was neither affordable nor offered great care and it was in the process of imploding by itself. Premiums have been soaring for years now, insurers have been bailing because they were losing their shirts, the Obama administration could never get enough young people to sign up to float all the unhealthy people that were coming onto the exchanges (which I think high-risk pools would've been a better way to go with the sick and uninsurable). I've seen a single mom making around 40k a year have her insurance premium double (along with her deductible) when she got insurance on the exchanges and then have that plan fight her like crazy on necessary procedures when she was having all these funky stomach issues.

Also, let's don't pretend that the 13 million people that no longer are on Obamacare as a result of removing the individual mandate are people that would've been saving $500-$1000. The reason removing the individual MANDATE creates 13 million more uninsured people is that healthcare is no longer MANDATED and people are not seeing the corresponding value to keep expensive, crappy insurance policies. If they were truly saving $500-1000 they wouldn't be leaving. Now I will agree that this most likely will increase cost to the rest of the people on the exchanges (like I said I don't think this was a wise idea) because the people that are leaving the exchanges are the healthy people, but to be clear the people that are leaving are not the ones that are saving $.
Like I said, removing the mandate makes the ACA worse, not better. It absolutely has It's flaws. Major flaws. There are things that can be done to improve the law and make it better for Americans, but instead of doing that, this is an effort to further sabotage the ACA and make it worse in hopes that it fails. If it does, who pays the price? What do you think the likelihood is that another bill is crafted to replace it? Next to none. We just saw that the Republicans can't get it done with both houses and the Presidency.

I would venture to guess that if you are buying insurance today through an exchange, whatever you got in tax savings was easily wiped out by the proportionate increase you will see in your insurance premium.

Responsible people who don't want to go without insurance are who this bill hurts. We can do better with healthcare. Way better. But we can't do better with the partisan politics we have in Washington today. This bill makes something bad even worse.
 
Who would you rather spend your money? You or the government?
You are right. I too wish I had control of how my tax dollars are spent. If I did I wouldn't be subsidizing hedge fund billionaires' taxes. The last thing I would do is subsidize a hedge fund manager who just made $1.5 billion this year with a $200 million dollar carried interest tax break.

When was the last time you walked up to a billionaire and gave them a hundo out of your pocket because it made you feel good? That's what Trump and the Republican led Congress just did with your money.
 
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