LOL. Political theater at its best. ATT and Comcast got bet nuetrality from trump, Boeing wants more defense contracts.
OT: Final Tax Plan Thoughts
- Thread starter scotchtiger
- Start date
LOL. Political theater at its best. ATT and Comcast got bet nuetrality from trump, Boeing wants more defense contracts.
Its best that you dont engage on tax cuts... same ole same old Democrats story line.... cuts for the rich, cuts for the rich....
What? You do realize that almost all of the entities that Trump owns are pass through entities. His statement that he would be harmed by this bill is one of the most intellectually dishonest things he's said to date.
It is pretty simple to me.
Tax cuts only work when the Budget is updated to match. I dont know what the current annual deficit is, but I would love to see us start to cut into the debt of the country.
But hopefully when all is done the budget is fixed a little.
I think I would have liked to have seen the deficit reduction through a better budget first and then update the tax plan, but timing and stupid ass government will not always allow that type of planning
I was fine with my taxes. I will enjoy some money back of course. But I realize that the taxcuts will be needed for some and lixury for others.
This will please the shortsighted masses.
Tax cuts only work when the Budget is updated to match. I dont know what the current annual deficit is, but I would love to see us start to cut into the debt of the country.
But hopefully when all is done the budget is fixed a little.
I think I would have liked to have seen the deficit reduction through a better budget first and then update the tax plan, but timing and stupid ass government will not always allow that type of planning
I was fine with my taxes. I will enjoy some money back of course. But I realize that the taxcuts will be needed for some and lixury for others.
This will please the shortsighted masses.
Trump is trolling you libs and its working. I am incredibly happy with this tax plan. POTUS was rich before he got to the White House and will be rich when he leaves. He is working for free btw....donating his salary to worthy cause. Get a grip.
To reduce spending means to reduce benefits with SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. When you do that, that will be the last thing you do b/c any political capital you have will be gone. And your party will lose big the next election. Point, you can't do a tax cut after a spending cut, its just not politically doable.
The only reason I think it might happen is
1) Paul Ryan is leaving, so he doesn't care.
2) I think Republicans know their going to take a beating regardless if they do nothing. So why not do something?
3) Even though Republicans know their going to take a beating, its impossible for Dems to get a veto overriding majority. Only 8 Pub seats are up for re-election. Even if Dems won all 8, unlikely, they will be short of 60. By the time the next election runs around (2020), the public will be used to the changes and Pubs move forward.
For the record, I don't think spending cuts of any significance will pass the Senate. But, I do think they attempt it (which will have some political cost). Their chance for passing anything is probably 20%. But there is a small chance.
Employees of AT&T, Boeing, Comcast, Wells Fargo, and 5th Third Bank are happy for the tax plan.
So now lying to the American people is just trolling?
When Obama said you can keep your own doctor, he was just trolling you dumb conservatives and it worked. That was some sweet trolling!
Politicians do not get rich off of tax cuts. They get rich off of back door trading. Otherwise, they buy stock from companies that will benefit from legislation that hasn’t been past yet.
Trump is worth somewhere b/w 2-10 billion dollars. And he is in his 70s. What he saves from a tax cut will not change his lifestyle nor was it the primary reason for doing it.
Trump is worth somewhere b/w 2-10 billion dollars. And he is in his 70s. What he saves from a tax cut will not change his lifestyle nor was it the primary reason for doing it.
UH, I'M NOT MAD ABOUT IT BUT YES THEY DO. A MAJORITY OF POLITICIANS HAVE A NET WORTH OF OVER $1M. CORKER GOT CALLED OUT FOR THE LAST MINUTE PROVISION THAT GOT HIM TO SWITCH HIS VOTE.
SEE, THE FACT THAT YOU AND MOST CITIZENS DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT CURBING DEFENSE SPENDING SAYS A LOT.
I AGREE THAT ENTITLEMENTS ARE OUT OF CONTROL. I REALLY DO. BUT, THE DEFENSE BUDGET IS INSANITY. IT'S A IRON TRIANGLE WITH A BLANK CHECK. NO ONE EVEN STOPS TO QUESTION WHY WE NEED ANOTHER $60 BILLION BECAUSE MILITARY WORSHIP IS A WAY OF LIFE. WE COULD EASILY GAIN AN EXTRA $200 BILLION AND STILL BE SAFE AND SOUND. BUT NO, WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO THINGS LIKE BUILD THE F-35. THE BUDGET OVERRUNS FOR THAT BIRD ARE APPROACHING $200 BILLION.
First of all, good for those companies for doing something, even if it was thrown out there for political theatre and was only a miniscule number of companies doing this. But don't think for a second that these breaks are being passed equitably to employees and that what was said by every coherent economist about this bill is not true. The trickle down from these tax cuts will not be sufficient enough to offset the massive cost. And the benefit to the average American is extremely disproportionate.
Lets start with AT&T. I looked up their corporate profit from last year alone. It was $25 Billion. If they save roughly 14% on taxes in one year from this bill, that equates to a $3.5 billion dollar savings. They are paying each of their reported 200k employees a $1,000 bonus. That equates to a ONE TIME payout of $200 million. That is only 5.7% of their tax savings from 1 year of tax cuts. And they are one of the very few giving a direct payout at all. What percentage of Americans will see a similar payout?
Note that AT&T only did a one-time bonus of $1k and not a salary increase. AT&T will receive that 14% tax break EVERY YEAR indefinitely, making the size of this one-time $1k bonus is even more insignificant. Over 10 years this $1K bonus is only about 0.6% of the tax savings AT&T just got from this bill.
Keep in mind AT&T, Boeing, etc. represent only a tiny, miniscule fraction of the corporate tax benefit. The vast majority of corporations aren't passing ANYTHING directly to employees. Why? There were no measures to ensure these tax cuts were invested equitably in job creation and increased wages for employees. That was my #1 issue with the corporate tax cuts. I am for corporate tax cuts, I just think there needed to be legislation to drive investment in jobs in America and/or wages for American workers.
There has never been anyone that said that tax cuts didn't lead to some economic stimulus or that the middle class wouldn't see some money. They usually do. This bill will be no different. The problem is, the trickle down from these types of tax cuts to the middle class is not equitable, as my one example above shows. Most of the money finds its way to the elite and most wealthy and the burden is passed to the American people in the form of additional debt and eventual cuts to meaningful programs and services they depend on.
Translation > $1.5 TRILLION is still being added to the debt. Most companies will not invest the vast majority of these saving directly in workers or jobs. They will buy back stocks and post dividends and give increased bonuses to execs. Nothing has changed because a hand full of companies made a splash by giving a miniscule amount of money, amounting to less than 1% in a 1 time distribution, to employees.
WELL SAID. WE CAN'T SIMPLY "TRUST" CORPORATIONS TO DO THE "RIGHT THING" WITH THE SAVINGS, NO MORE THAN WE CAN "TRUST" THE FEDERAL GOV'T WITH OUR MONEY. TAX SAVINGS SHOULD BE TIED TO INVESTMENTS....WHICH CREATES GOOD JOBS....WHICH CREATES CITIZENS THAT AREN'T AS DEPENDENT ON ENTITLEMENTS...
Again, I don't necessarily disagree. Even though it's not a dollar-for-dollar pass-thru, we're already seeing benefits to the middle class though. Some of those companies are raising base pay as well, not just providing bonuses. And others are making investments in infrastructure, as @TAINT_PAINT requests above.
And even though this is touted as a middle-class tax cut, being honest with ourselves, it's hard to cut taxes significantly for those paying very small percentages already. Increased pay, bonuses, hiring, etc. will benefit that group more than the actual tax cut.
I'm probably in the group that got drilled the most under the old tax structure. Make too much to pay a small percentage, but not enough to benefit from all of the loopholes or filter money through capital gains. This plan helps this group, who has shouldered much of the tax burden that supports our country.
My family could see a five-figure annual decrease in taxes as a result of this bill. We will pay lower rates, get a deduction on part of our income that is pass-thru, be able to filter private school tuition through 529 plans, avoid AMT, etc. This isn't the nominal benefit you reference elsewhere.
Additionally, my company sells to large employers. They will have additional capital to invest in the systems we provide. For someone in sales, this is good news. It will likely drive sales and our stock price should increase, which will also benefit me.
Finally, tax reform is baked into the roaring market, which has resulted in nice gains for retirement and investment accounts.
I don't disagree with you on some of the concerns. I too would have liked to see some incentive to drive corporate tax savings to be directed in beneficial areas, limit the uber-wealthy's (ie not 1%ers, but .0001%ers) tax manipulation and reduce spending to offset the deficit additions.
But, this is the first legislation in ages that helps my family's financial situation - and does it in a big way by lowering taxes (less expense), driving corporate investments (more income) and driving gains in the market (more investment gains). As a father, provider and heavily contributing taxpayer, I cannot possibly ignore the major benefits to my family when evaluating this legislation. I hope we improve further upon it, but its a win for now.
Sorta sounds like a get rich quick sceme for the workers.
I don't think any of us have suggested that the plan wouldn't benefit you, personally. I'm just saying that I don't think benefiting people like you is worth the debt.
So basically, if a company doesn't say anything, then you must not be giving raises/bonuses. But if a company says something, their political pandering. Don't you see the double standard.
By the way, FedEx just said the tax cut will make them hire more people. Political bastards.
Personally, I wish all companies that are benefiting from this would let the public know. That way the American people have an idea. Before social media, Americans had no idea. Even if the companies mentioned above would have sent a public release, it wouldn't have been picked up by the media.
This is just the start - CNBC Report.
This is just the start of companies handing out bonuses, raising wages and increasing spending
This is just the start of companies handing out bonuses, raising wages and increasing spending
- Expect a stampede of companies handing out bonuses, raising pay, spending on capital projects and giving to charities, with the windfall from the newly passed corporate tax cuts.
- AT&T, Comcast and a handful of companies said they would use tax reform to give money to their employees and increase capital spending.
- Wells Fargo and Fifth Third said they would raise their minimum wage. Analysts expect other banks to follow, as well as other companies that will get a boost from the tax law changes.
I am happy for your savings under this bill. Truly. I just don't think for you to get the benefit you deserve it had to cost us all as tax payers $1.5 TRILLION. It was a bad deal. Very bad deal.
I will wait and see what they say on an earnings call. I don't trust much of what they say to the media.
It's not a question of whether there will be new investment, new jobs, and wage increases generated from this tax legislation. There absolutely will be. The problem is that it wont be proportional to the cost of the tax cuts. The new revenues and jobs created won't generate close to enough economic growth and additional taxes to offset the cost. Also, an enormous and unacceptable proportion of this money won't ever be invested in the American worker and growing American industries, which is the point. It's a bad investment. We built no paramerters around how those tax dollars are invested.
Just because AT&T gave 0.6% of their tax benefit to their workers it doesn't mean that they are being good stewards of the money we just added to the deficit to give them. What's happening to the other 99.4%? Most of you don't seem to care because they saw a new report that they were giving a miniscule amount to their workers.
If I go to a car dealership and they let me drive away with a new car, I shouldn't just be happy and praise the dealership for their generosity. I should ask them what the terms are. If I do that and find out I'm going to pay back $75k on a car that is worth $25k, that's not a good deal. I can't just point to the fact that they let me drive away with a new car and say they did right by me.
Just because people are getting a couple of grand in their tax refund, or a company is giving them a $1k bonus, it doesn't mean this is a great deal for the American people. It's going to cost way more than that little benefit is worth down the road. But unfortunately the average person doesn't have the ability to see that.
Do me a favor and go away. Your IQ is higher than 100, but your logic is well below that.
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WHY DONT YOU OFFER SOME INSIGHTS OF YOUR OWN? OR ARE YOU NOT SMART ENOUGH TO HAVE ONE INDEPENDENT THOUGHT?
TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT, TELL ME YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE F-35 PROGRAM WE ARE PAYING FOR. GOOD USE OF $400 BILLION?
I gave my insights on page one. As far as the F-35 program, I have had minimal time to test, and yes I am a test engineer for the military. Whether we should have purchased the aircraft, yes....just to keep the industrial base. We have a hard enough time scavaging parts to keep old aircraft operating.
You, on the other hand, need to grow up and get a real job.
So 1Clemzunfan is now downplaying good things a number of companies did for their employees within hours of the tax plan being signed? What will upcoming days,weeks, and months bring? These moves were a symbolic and concrete show of support for the new tax plan. I cannot recall anything like this ever happening before. The big payoff to American citizens for the corporate tax cuts will be more jobs. President Trump has had a spectacularly successful first year economically by any rational look and analysis. The economy is roaring and its going to pick up more now. This is in addition to the vast majority of the american people are receiving a personal tax cut. I have already looked at this and my family is going to come out with more money in our pockets. Trump is a winner,,,,he is winning. He is doing what he campaigned on more so than any President that I can remember and all of this talk sounds like sour grapes. Come on guys...get on the Trump train!! Its steaming ahead!! I wonder how many democrats and never trumpers that voted against Trump will appreciate the bonuses and pay raises that will be coming in?
ColumbianTigerinATL
Gold Member
" He is working for free btw." Obviously, LOL. The "pass through" and estate tax change appear to be YUGEly in his favor. That's just scratching the surface of the virtually immeasurable and unknowable personal enrichment Trump interests are growing. Geesh.
You guys dont get it. Trump was already rich and will continue to be rich. He is doing this for all of America!! He is the only President in the modern era for sure and maybe ever to work for free. Please quit looking for any far fetched ulterior motive in everything Trump does.
I'm not downplaying or saying what these companies like AT&T did for their employees is a bad thing. Good for them. I probably didn't relay my thought properly.
What I am trying to point out is that these examples of AT&T, etc. aren't proof that this tax bill, and the dollars it will save big corporations and the wealthy individuals, will be equitably invested in employees and in growing the economy with American jobs. My point was to show how insignificant these $1k bonuses are (0.6% of their 10 year tax benefit) relative to their tax cut and how these bonuses alone don't prove a narrative everyone is using them as an example of to push.
Maybe AT&T will invest the remaining 99.4% of their tax savings in American jobs and technology, R&D, etc. Maybe they won't do stock buybacks, big executive bonuses, etc. But that remains to be seen, and this $1k bonus is relatively insignificant.
Again, I have long supported corporate tax cuts. I just think this bill fell short in implementing measures to help ensure that companies receiving these cuts were truly investing those savings in their workforce and meaningful efforts to build American jobs through investment in America. That remains to be seen and I would have liked to have seen more to ensure it happens. There is no doubt some companies will do exactly what we want to see. AT&T may be one. But they are just a drop in the bucket and much remains to be seen.
Its not a question of whether most Americans will get some money in their pocket from this tax legislation. They will. The question is whether it was worth the cost of adding $1.5 Trillion to the debt and whether these measures will generate enough growth to increase future tax revenues to pay for it. I think this bill will absolutely lead to some growth. No doubt about it. I just don't think that growth will be enough to offset the cost and long term most Americans who are getting a little cash will pay a bigger, more costly price down the road.
Today many are happy because they just got a new car. Lets wait and evaluate this thing once everyone starts making payments and they look back in a few years and tally up exactly how much they paid for that car. It's not about what you get today, it's about how much it costs down the line.
I was for tax reform. I would have made cuts to the corporate rate but put in measures to tie those cuts to investment in America. I would not have touched the top end of individual brackets and would have closed some loopholes like carried interest. I would have liked to have seen a big chunk of this 1.5 Trillion we are borrowing directly invested by our government in infrastructure and R&D instead. The return for our economy would have been better.
There are good things in this legislation. No denying that. It just could have been a much, much, much better deal for the American people than it was.
This tax plan is a back door way of reducing the government.....over the long term Republicans will not add $1.5T to the debt.....they will force the Dems to cut programs.
AND I LOVE IT!
AND I LOVE IT!
LMAO at libs thinking the economy or the debt for that matter is a zero sum game. The dems are in panic mode because they know full well what this tax plan will do to the economy. I've never heard such ridiculous rhetoric coming from Pelosi, Chuch-u Shumer etc.
By my calculations I'll save at least $18K next year with the tax cuts. I am going to donate that money to democrats in key elections. America First!
Another way to look at it - I don’t think having more money taken from my family is worth it to fund wasteful, inefficient government programs. It’s my money to start with, not yours or the government’s. There is a perspective issue here.
If we’re concerned about debt - and I am - we have to focus on spending. Taking unreasonable chunks of money from families is not the answer.
I’m late the the conversation, but I understand that to be the case up to $10,000.
