Player suspended already for comments regarding Sam kissing his twink
- Thread starter Dbatz
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We'll have to disagree on this, sorry.
I do agree that Christians are called to share and spread the gospel, and to make disciples of all nations, but you have to think logically for a moment. What's the best way to go about doing that? Should I take a stand and beat this gay dude over the head with a Bible and bash him on the internet? Or maybe I should show him some of that grace that Jesus was talking about and love him no matter what. I think that's what Jesus would do, so that's going to be my plan.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I don't ever point out people's mistakes, I often rebuke people, but only when I know that person well enough to feel comfortable in doing so, and even then, I try to do it with respect, kindness, and love. Confronting someone and yelling at them, telling them all the things they have done wrong will never work, neither will some anti-gay protest. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, is going to listen to a stranger when that stranger is condemning them. It takes a true friend to be able to deliver that kind of message and have it actually sink in and result in change. So, you want to change someone? You must first become their friend.
Remaining silent does not mean that I agree with or condone his behavior, but I'm not exactly remaining silent either. Remaining silent also in no way makes my life easier, I find that rather humorous actually. I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to rip into this guy, and all queers, but that my friend, would be taking the easy way out.
I've said it numerous times in various threads, and I'll say it again here, I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to quoting the Bible, but I'm pretty sure Jesus never said anything about "taking a stand". Would you please give me the book, chapter, and verse(s) so I can look that up and read it for myself. Thanks.
"No, you didn't. That isn't what I was saying. I am not tolerant of anyone."Originally posted by Willence:
No, you didn't. That isn't what I was saying. I am not tolerant of anyone. To tolerate means I put up with people despite my disdain for them. That's not the case. I respect and care for people. My life illustrates that. I'd wager a good sum of money yours does not. I do pray for you every day though in hopes you'll find your way out of whatever dark place you occupy now. There Lord will FIFY Transference.
I agree, and my question wasn't directed towards the extravagant nature of Sam's promotion on espn (I agree it was a bit much). It is a big enough deal where I do expect his selection to be treated with some increased importance...My question was geared towards the many on this board who are upset at ESPN's promotion for less tolerant reasons.
Sorry, my thought process is obviously beyond you. Nice quoting me out of context btw. Doofus!Originally posted by Transference:
"No, you didn't. That isn't what I was saying. I am not tolerant of anyone."Originally posted by Willence:
No, you didn't. That isn't what I was saying. I am not tolerant of anyone. To tolerate means I put up with people despite my disdain for them. That's not the case. I respect and care for people. My life illustrates that. I'd wager a good sum of money yours does not. I do pray for you every day though in hopes you'll find your way out of whatever dark place you occupy now. There Lord will FIFY Transference.
Wow some of y'all have no idea that you are living in a world of straight privilege. Hilarious.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Always a fan of the Matt Walsh blog (because it falls in line with my thinking usually, of course). This one was no exception.
Hey guys, I think about 99% of NFL draft picks are having premarital sex. Clearly bigger fish to fry here with regards to taking a stand against sin (as opposed to less than 1% of draftees being openly gay). TIME TO LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD!!! BRING ON THE OUTRAGE!!! FREE SPEECH!!! YAY!!!
You don't understand basic definitions. That is why you say absolutely ludicrous things like the quote above.Originally posted by Willence:
Sorry, my thought process is obviously beyond you. Nice quoting me out of context btw. Doofus!Originally posted by Transference:
"No, you didn't. That isn't what I was saying. I am not tolerant of anyone."Originally posted by Willence:
No, you didn't. That isn't what I was saying. I am not tolerant of anyone. To tolerate means I put up with people despite my disdain for them. That's not the case. I respect and care for people. My life illustrates that. I'd wager a good sum of money yours does not. I do pray for you every day though in hopes you'll find your way out of whatever dark place you occupy now. There Lord will FIFY Transference.
Just because he enjoys sex with another man does not mean he was made that way. Pedophiles obviously enjoy their sick desires, but were they born that way? There are people who prefer a sexual encounter with an animal, with furry costumed people, etc. There are lots of sick headed people out there. It is termed sexual deviancy and was a proper diagnosis in the medical profession until liberalism got it removed not so long ago. The human mind is capable of as good or bad as you let it.
If he wants to be gay, i don't care.. only he has to answer for what he does. What i cant stand is this attempt by(pick your culprit) to normalize this deviant lifestyle.
If he wants to be gay, i don't care.. only he has to answer for what he does. What i cant stand is this attempt by(pick your culprit) to normalize this deviant lifestyle.
Im tired of seeing this issue of sexual preference paralleled to racism and sexism. It is not the same and it is offensive to me to.see the media or anyone try to paint it in the same light.
I personally believe that Michael Sam and any other gay person should be allowed to do whatever they want to do in the privacy of their own home. Its none of my business. People's sexual preference is up to them. If someone is gay, straight, into swinging or sharing partners, or into sadomasochism, or whatever, more power to them. I hold no ill will toward them. I think they should be entitled to every legal right I have and shouldnt be discriminated against. If he is good enough to play in the league, more power to him. I wouldnt have a problem playing with him if I was a player. But that doesnt mean I have to support his personal lifestyle and sexual choices. If that dolphin player doesnt want to see him kissing another man and spreading cake all over his gay lover and licking it off, it doesnt make him a bad person or a bigot. His texts were his opinion on Sam's sexual preference and of him so blatantly exercising it on tv and it was the same reaction many people had. He didnt wish ill will on Sam or call him names or harrass him. He just commented that he was taken back by how he was acting and thought what he was seeing was horrible.
If someone wants to french kiss their cousin on tv, some people are going to find it unnatural and have a problem with it. Its unnatural to them and if they find their sexual preference gross, how are they violating the kissing cousins rights by stating that? If a player saw a clip of Jadeveon Clowney at the strip club with some nasty stripper grinding on him and text OMG and that it was Horrible, would he be fined and suspended? Jadeveon Clowney is just expressing his sexual preference and is not breaking any laws. Many people wont be offended by it, but many people are. Whats the difference? Some religious people may disagree with Clowney's sexual escapades and feel it is wrong. If they state that or dont want their kids watching it are they hurting Clowney and violating his civil rights? It doesnt mean they are bigots if they find someones sexual preferences gross or if they feel it violates their religious beliefs. Some people are into sadomasochism. If someone is a sadomasochist and I see them on TV and state OMG or "horrible" am I a bigot? Should I be fined and penalized from my job?
People are trying to take a matter of sexual preference and sexual lifestyle and force it on people and tell people they should accept it as normal. Every person gets to decide that for theirself and they are not a biggot if they are not into alternative sexual lifestyles. Its no different than forcing sadomasochism on people or swinging. I'm sure sadimasochist or swingers would tell you that is just who they are and what drives them sexually and they can not help their sexual desires too. That may be true and Im not judging them, but I am not a bigot if I dont think it is natural or if I think it is gross and ask them to express themselves privately and not in my face. People are trying to take a matter of sexual preference and make it into the equivalent of race discrimination and sex discrimination. That comparison is offensive to me. I am angered that they are trying to put someones sexual preference on the same level as racism or sexism. It simply is not the same.
I found what Sam and his gay lover were doing gross. I find swinging gross. I find grinding on nasty whores in strip clubs gross. I find sadomasochism gross. I am a monogamous heterosexual male. By definition, I am not attracted to men, or to plural relationships, to strip club whores, etc. I naturally find those other sexual relationships gross or would not be a momonogamous heterosexual male. Right? Am I a bigot because I can not relate to those other sexual preferences? I dont think so. Do I hate any of those people? No. Do I believe in discriminating against their legal rights because I find their personal sexual preferences gross? No. I am who I am and they are who they are. If they say my sexual preference is gross or boring or whatever, my feelings are not hurt and I dont consider them to be bigots either. If they are grossed out by a man and woman kissing and comment on it, that's their right just like is mine. Im not looking to see their employer fine and suspend them because they have a different sexual preference.
This post was edited on 5/12 12:04 PM by 1Clemzunfan
The above quote you reference is still out of context. To tolerate as defined in the dictionary is to endure or put up with. I don't view people that way. I choose to embrace and care for others, not tolerate them. Hence the reason you took my quote out of context because the sentence that follows is what defines the previous statement accurately. But again, it's beyond your capacity to grasp that it would seem.
You're asking why racist remarks aren't tolerated to the extent that anti-gay remarks are, I guess. Probably the same reason that some folks will circle the wagons to defend a gay guy against name-calling, but sit on their hands while kids are called "thugs" and "in-breds" on here daily. First of all, we're all hypocrites. All of us. We all have our hot button issues, while other issues don't register on our radar. Second, homosexuality, along with a handful of other issues, is the cause du jour of the hip crowd.
Did you really compare Homosexuality with pedophilia and sex with animals. Have you ever known someone close to you who is Homosexual? If you have it should be pretty obvious to you that its not a choice. Who would want to live a lifestyle that is ridiculed and mocked everyday by choice. I generally stay out of these types of conversations, but I am constantly reminded of who makes up the majority. You do realize that up until the Civil rights movements the bible and religion were used to support segregation and not providing equal rights. I don't hear any of you making this argument now.
You finally got the right word with the right definition (even though that definition still mentions nothing about disdain), but still don't understand how ridiculous your original assertion is. Quick break down...
Tolerate is a verb. Tolerant is an adjective. When you are saying you are "not tolerant" of other people you are literally stating the definition of intolerant.
Now with your lack of basic understanding of definitions/grammar, you will once again miss the point. If you don't believe that peoples point of views are valid or are deserving of consideration, then you are intolerant. You have plainly stated ITT that you believe gay people/lifestyles are wrong and that you use your interpretation of the bible to compel to you to change the way they have been naturally born. Hence the intolerant comment.
Now, you will undoubtedly come back once again clamoring that I am "intolerant of your intolerance", and that my friend is a paradox. You may want to look that up...
The Bible absolutely supports slavery and bigotry. The Old Testament is chock full of it. Ironically, the Old Testament is where most of the people in this thread would pull there quotes from to support being anti-homosexuality.
40 years ago it was perfectly acceptable to be bigoted and racist. This was accepted and taught in our churches in the South. The only thing that has changed is the object of the hatred. This too shall change.
If you can;t see that this is a civil rights issue, and not a religious issue, you are missing the boat. How does someone being Homosexual hurt you? How would they getting married hurt you?
I have clearly stated that? Where? I never plainly stated anything other than to state that Trading Tiger's point about Jesus' comments about judging lest we be judged is often misinterpreted. I never once applied that to this particular issue, you did.
You don't deserve a serious answer but I had already typed this previously. The fact of the matter is I struggle greatly with this issue. In the context of Biblical discussion, Paul referenced homosexuality when addressing a hedonistic culture which had no sexual morality whatsoever. I am not able to say there is no distinction between that and a gay couple that loves each other in the same way I love my wife and spends their lives together. Those aren't similar things to me at all. I have many gay clients that I know and love very much. They are wonderful people and I enjoy every opportunity I have to spend time with them. I also had a gay roommate for a time and there was no sinister underpinning to his lifestyle or activities.
Further, in the hedonistic context of Paul's commentary, how do we view that fact that premarital sex is generally accepted behavior in our society? It shouldn't be and if we choose to cling to The Bible with regard to homosexuality yet not this aren't we perhaps guilty of trying to use The Bible to justify our disgust with gay people? That doesn't seem right at all. Is a person that sleeps with twenty women indiscriminately really to be viewed in the same light as a man who has a devoted, lifelong relationship with another man? I just can't get there.
We tolerate sin far too much in our halls of worship. We can stand against sin and still love our fellow man as a brother. I realize society chooses to paint us with a broad brush on this issue but it doesn't mean we have to define ourselves by what society says we are. The Bible calls us to do quite the opposite. I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman by definition. I also believe we have mishandled the issue of gay relationships so badly that we have been painted into a corner that a lot of us are not comfortable with. How we proceed from here is a difficult matter. I believe in freedom and thus I will always defend and protect the ability of people to live their lives the way they see fit. I do not believe we should fight against this issue in the way we have been because it doesn't feel to me like it's in the spirit of the way that Jesus illuminated the path for us. He never raised his hand against another person nor did he render ultimate judgment on them. He did state the way to the Lord is through Him and his teachings. It is to us to lead people to that path as it is the truly righteous one. I don't see how handling things the way we have in this issue is going to lead anyone to the Lord.
By the way, to define tolerant is to be able to endure rather than just to endure. Same damn thing pretty much other than feeding your desire to lord over us all with your opinions and the validity of said opinions.
This post was edited on 5/12 12:23 PM by Willence
I would say that pedophilia is an adult or person in a position of power forcing themselves on someone younger in a weaker position. That is very different than a homosexual relationship between 2 consenting adults.
Please tell me you don't think that these two can be compared.
The Old Testament is important in a lot of veins. Societal interpretations and events have nothing to do with the Word of The Lord. Jesus brought clarity to these things during His time on this earth. I have never once sat in church and heard bigotry or discrimination taught in church. Never once.... and I suspect from your views you haven't spent too much time in church so you wouldn't really know either. You're parsing what you want to try and support your argument without truly understanding the true Word. That is a lame and weak attempt to try and discredit religion. Even operating under the belief that homosexuality is a sin doesn't create a sense of bigotry or discrimination. Most Christians understand we are all sinners and that is why we need the grace of the Lord.
Yoshi, what civil rights are being violated? Please tell me what civil rights aren't being granted to gay people at this point in time? Today, I could choose to leave my wife, move in with a man, love him and live with him the rest of my life. I could get joint custody of my children. I could leave all my worldly possessions to the man I love. I could get joint benefits with him at my job. I could have visitation rights in the hospital if he's sick and I want to stay with him. What civil right am I denied should I choose this path?
This is not about civil rights. It's about wanting to make people say it's okay and that it's perfectly normal and we should just love every choice anyone makes with their life. I have the RIGHT to say I believe marriage is something that is between a man and a woman. You do not have the right to tell me I can't say that.
I love how people like you take one statement and extend it 500 miles to something it isn't. There are those who have taken this fight in a direction it shouldn't have gone. Personally, I am all for civil unions and every protection that I enjoy being extended to people who are gay. There are some things we need to address like allowing gay couples to file taxes jointly and I'm 100% in support of that. I do not want to exclude people from the freedoms I enjoy. A violation of a civil right is when a black person is told they can't go to a restaurant because they don't want non-whites in their restaurant. A violation of a civil right is when a gay person is told they can't live in a certain apartment complex because their kind isn't welcome. If that's going on, let's address it and bring it to light so it doesn't continue. But that's not what we're talking about here.
Hate is always going to exist. It's a sad and unfortunate reality. But it is also part of the nature of man to loathe that which he/she doesn't understand or accept. We can focus on all the gains we've made or we can focus on the hate. I choose to focus on the gains and work toward more gains. The focus on all the hate just creates more hate. That is a proven fact. The rejection and discrimination toward religion is a great example of how this is going on. Your desire to advance your social agenda is making you discredit and de-legitimize my views in the process. You'll say it's justified but then is it really? Especially when you take views and extrapolate them to a point of being sinister when the original intent was nothing of the sort.
This post was edited on 5/12 12:21 PM by Willence
I too agree that Christians, which I am one of, should be taking on issues like pre-marital sex, adultery, pornography, divorce,and so on with as much fervor as we seem to muster for homosexuality. It's a shortcoming of the Church for sure.
That being said, ESPN isn't lording praise over anyone publicizing their sexual conquests. If anything, these stories are treated as scandals. What they did do, though, was choose to show the "kiss" over and over and over.
You think that would happen for a guy like Russel Wilson who kissed his wife? Not a chance. ESPN knew what they were doing by showing that particular segment of the video.
There's a lot of good perspective in these posts. It's worth reiterating that simply saying something is wrong is not the same as passing 'judgement'. Non-Christians love to misquote that passage in Matthew, when its really more relevant to the idea of condemning a person - as in determining whether a person is bound for heaven or hell. While we can assess an act as right or wrong, we are not to judge one as guilty before God.
The idea of having a relationship with someone is very important when offering some form of 'rebuke'. On top of that, we aren't really called to 'rebuke' non-believers in the same context that we are other Christians.
To the last question, I would offer 1 Peter 3:15-16. It doesn't say go on the attack, but it does offer advice about defending our faith.
You didn't need to type five paragraphs when you just could have said...
"I use my religion to justify my intolerance for people who make lifestyle choices that I don't agree with. Also, I still don't fully comprehend the difference between adjectives and verbs. They are pretty much the same damn thing."
This post was edited on 5/12 12:55 PM by Transference
Learned ITT that some TI posters cannot stomach Game of Thrones, but not because of people's heads being chopped off...
But that's not what I said and you know it. I know you're just enjoying trying to irritate me. It won't really work. At any rate, I'm done with you cause you're not interested in a discussion. You just want to be an ass and try to irritate people. That's so very 5 years old of you.
This is one of my chief complaints with the myriad who sit on their high horses in condemnation of homosexuality as sinful behavior. If this thread full of anti-gay vitriol was truly based on a Christian rejection of sexual sin then there should be an entire board full of threads condemning all the other iterations of it in our society. Where are the threads expressing disgust at our players with multiple children? Where are the admonitions against the dangers of premarital sex amongst the student population? The cries of outrage at the presence of strip clubs around town? Why isn't half of this board boycotting this website until signature pics of barely clad women are removed?
I'll tell you why. The hate in this thread comes from personal disgust with gays. Homosexuality (particularly male) offends these people's sensibilities, it threatens them, they don't understand it, and they hate it. Christianity is just an excuse. A few passages from the Old Testament make them feel better about their hate, make them feel justified in it, and that's all they need to feel morally superior, to let their judgment fly.
How many of these same people regularly consume pornography? How many have had sex outside the bonds of marriage? Have had affairs? How many know people who are guilty of those sins but don't openly and brazenly condemn those people because they find that particular brand of sin less disgusting? The answer to that last question, I guarantee you, is every single one of them. It's the very height of hypocrisy, and it sickens me. It is as far from Christ's teaching as you can get.
Willence,
I proudly support your convictions. You earn them. The only thing I disagree with is sexual preference being a CHOICE.
I knew 4 boys growing up from our ages of 4, 8, 14 and 14 through the time I was 18. I left my hometown for good and learned later that each of those guys came out. I never knew any of them past 18 but I knew the 4 and 8 year old were "different" and by the time we reached middle school, I knew they were not attracted to girls.
I left those 2 in public school and met 2 new guys at all boys high school. They were very consistent the entire time. It wasn't a show, it wasn't a choice. All 4 of those guys were gay when they were born. All 4 of them came from fathers who were an engineer, school teacher, Wall Street trader and a contractor.
The gay "choice" thing is a falacy. I'm sure there are some choosing to be deviant but there are most who are just that way.
I proudly support your convictions. You earn them. The only thing I disagree with is sexual preference being a CHOICE.
I knew 4 boys growing up from our ages of 4, 8, 14 and 14 through the time I was 18. I left my hometown for good and learned later that each of those guys came out. I never knew any of them past 18 but I knew the 4 and 8 year old were "different" and by the time we reached middle school, I knew they were not attracted to girls.
I left those 2 in public school and met 2 new guys at all boys high school. They were very consistent the entire time. It wasn't a show, it wasn't a choice. All 4 of those guys were gay when they were born. All 4 of them came from fathers who were an engineer, school teacher, Wall Street trader and a contractor.
The gay "choice" thing is a falacy. I'm sure there are some choosing to be deviant but there are most who are just that way.
