Russian Collusion is Becoming Clear to Honest People: Facts not Speculation

[TigerGrowls]

That’s the problem with y’all two party system people.

You are the type of person that excuses a clemson player busted for pot because it’s not that big of a deal, but if USC has the same thing happen you’d talk about how they have an undisciplined program....

You are wrong about me, but I dont need to prove myself to you. The fact that I support Trump strongly is evidence that I am not a two party person as you call it. Trump is the ultimate outsider. You need to wake up and look at reality. I have an opinion on how this is playing out and I am not afraid to stand by it when the hecklers show up.

 

[Rychek4]

@hopefultiger13
- I as a registered republican despise the Clintons and the Bushes due to what they did while in office.

Really? I am a huge Bush 41 fan. I always thought he did a great, underappreciated job. I like Ron Paul as well.

I didn't have this hatred for Obama that you seem to have though. I still think you are way too influenced by hate and right wing media. Even the Economist is going after Trump, and that should make you think about why. They are basically the height of honest, truthful, accurate reporting (and they lean right).

 

[nytigerfan]

Wait a second @nytigerfan I thought you came over to be with the good guys?

MY ACCOUNT GIT HAVKED BY A LIBTARD. IN MY TRAILER MYBFAMOLY BELIEVES IN TO THINGS JESUS AND TRUMP. TRUMP WAS RIGHT WHEN BE SAID THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED AND NOW HE IS RIGHT SAYING THAT THIS WITCH HUNT IS RIGGED HE IS A GOOD AND DEECENT MAN WHO ONLY CARES ABOUT AMERICA AND NOT HIMSELF

 

[Grumplin]

Hi Einstein! You think you are smart I can tell. Well Trump contributed at least 66 million to his own presidential campaign in 2016 as documented by USA Today( is that good enough for you) Did I get a passing grade? If you want a copy of the law, look it up yourself.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-campaign-investment-hit-66-million/95178392/

Candidates can and do legally contribute to their own campaigns when they have the money to do it. This 130K or whatever of his money that went to hush the women at WORST is an unreported contribution and is the equivalent of jaywalking on level of crime. Commissar Obama ended up paying 375K fine for this previously. Now a whole lot of legal scholars including Alan Dershowitz who is not a republican say this money paid is not an illegal campaign contribution at all.

You guys need to quit hating on our Patriot President Trump and be appreciative of what he is doing to make our country better. I guarantee that most of you nimrods are making more money and doing better under President Trump and our country as a whole is doing better by any economic measure, so get off the gripe train.

No, you don’t. You don’t even know how a campaign contribution is defined by the Federal Election Campaign Act. You are regurgitating other people’s talking points instead of thinking for yourself.

Lol at Dershowitz. He is one of a minuscule minority of legal authorities to come out and say that there is no way this could be characterized as a campaign contribution. Sorry, but he is not an election law expert.

And finally, if you would bother to read the law, you would know that a loan made for the purpose of influencing a political campaign for Federal office is illegal if it is over $2700. Cohen made the initial payment, and was payed back. This is called a loan. It matters not one whit if if Trump repaid him out of his own pocket or with campaign funds. Any loan that exceeds $2700 is illegal, if made for the primary purpose of influencing an election. It is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison. And that’s what Cohen’s sworn testimony in open court explicitly indicates.

 

[hopefultiger13]

He did not use campaign money. Its not illegal.

It most certainly is. IF he used it for campaign purposes. Case in point (and this part certainly applies to Trump in every way). Former Senator John Edwards. Wife was dying of cancer and he had an affair and a kid... all while trying to get reelected. He paid her (I don't remember if it was to support the kid or to keep the woman quiet ... but let's assume the worst and it was a straight payoff... like Trump). Edwards was independently wealthy and wrote the check out of his own account, that was never in question. BUT he was still tried for campaign violations. If it was straight up legal, he never would have been indited in the first place.

Edwards got off b/c he claimed (as Trump is currently doing) that the payment was to save his family, not cover up the scandal for political purposes. But just b/c you wrote the check out of a different account, doesn't stop it from being illegal. Now if you want to say that Trump was trying to save his marriage and family and made a payoff to do that, you are correct... nothing illegal. If Trump paid her off to stop the scandal from breaking... That's illegal. Period.

So Trump has a credible argument that he paid to save his marriage/family. That's why the wording of the plea deal is so important. Namely that he paid the woman by direction of Trump FOR THE PURPOSE OF INFLUENCING THE ELECTION. I think that a rational person (not you, of course) would agree that since this was done within a week of the election, there is also an argument that Trump did use the payoff so that he wouldn't take the hit in the poles.

So which is it? That's what the trial is for...

 

[clemsontyger04]

@hopefultiger13 I do agree with you here in the fact that most people will rationalize facts to agree with their idea of right and wrong and their perception of reality. People will always be more willing to forgive a politician that they agree with most or all of the time as opposed to someone they disagree with or despise. I honestly think I am firmly living in reality.

- I am a registered republican.
- I philosophically am a libertarian. My biggest problem with Trump is the missiles fired in the mideast, but have come to the conclusion that he is being forced to do more stuff internationally than he wanted. This is the one of the very few areas where he hasnt kept his campaign promises.
- I as a registered republican despise the Clintons and the Bushes due to what they did while in office.
- I despise Obama too of course due to what he did while in office.
- I supported Ron Paul heavily to the point that I voted for him in 2008 and 2012 as a write in candidate. I love Ron Paul, but he couldnt catch on in popularity and he was attacked by the left and the right due to his views.

As a citizen, I have to choose my presidential candidate by who will do stuff that I think will put America in the best position. I never cared much at all for Donald Trump before this. We watched his show when it was on and it was mildly entertaining at times. I was totally disillusioned and cynical of all politicians going into Obama's second term. I felt like the republicans and the democrats were selling our country down the river. I listened to Donald Trump as he started his campaign and most of what he said made sense to me. I thought we can keep doing the stupid crap thats been done forever and let these professional polticians do what they do or lets try something different. The more I listened to Trump, it galvanized my opinion that hey lets give this man a chance. Let an outsider into Washington and see what happens.

Trump has kept his campaign promises in work and effort while not completing all of them. I dont hold the lack of a wall against Trump as he cannot do that by himself. He has passed the biggest tax cut in history. He has eased regulatory burden on business. He has given us the lowest unemployment in history for minorities. He has done a hell of a job keeping his promises.

He is a flawed individual personally, but he is not my preacher. He is doing exceptional as POTUS though. The best that I can ever think of in over a 100 years. I do not have any built in reason to love Donald Trump no matter what. I would dump him in a minute if he started doing stuff that was contrary to his campaign promises. I separate him as a private citizen and as POTUS. The dude owned the MS Universe Pageant....nuff said. He loves women and everyone knew and no one cares. They shouldnt have paid any hush money honestly....it wouldnt have changed any votes. Big Bad Don is a mans man in a lot of respects.

The swamp is obviously after Trump. This is an all out attack never seen before in American history. Many republicans are involved in this also. Its as clear to me as the nose on your face. Its right there. The swamp does not want an outsider with no political experience to ride into Washington and quickly fix all the crap that they have created and let fester for decades......this will end a lot of the political class. They are out to take Trump down at any cost.

So Obama was so bad but most of the shit you give trump credit for Obama had already started. Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression, turned it around, but people like you say his presidency was a failure he accomplished nothing but yet Trump has done it all in 18 months. Libertarian bullshit is just that. Just like conservative, if you are a true conservative you should be pitching a bitch over the spending that is going on. Just admit, you think Democrats are the devil and you are willing to bend your beliefs to make yourself feel better about voting and electing an orange train wreck. The train wreck who is vile, a liar, and has embraced white supremacy and the alt right. You are the company you keep.

 

[firegiver]

https://www.apnews.com/143be3c52d47...l-Enquirer's-safe-held-damaging-Trump-stories

what a shit show

 

[TigerGrowls]

MY ACCOUNT GIT HAVKED BY A LIBTARD. IN MY TRAILER MYBFAMOLY BELIEVES IN TO THINGS JESUS AND TRUMP. TRUMP WAS RIGHT WHEN BE SAID THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED AND NOW HE IS RIGHT SAYING THAT THIS WITCH HUNT IS RIGGED HE IS A GOOD AND DEECENT MAN WHO ONLY CARES ABOUT AMERICA AND NOT HIMSELF

Thats more like it comrade...LOL!

 

[TigerGrowls]

No, you don’t. You don’t even know how a campaign contribution is defined by the Federal Election Campaign Act. You are regurgitating other people’s talking points instead of thinking for yourself.

Lol at Dershowitz. He is one of a minuscule minority of legal authorities to come out and say that there is no way this could be characterized as a campaign contribution. Sorry, but he is not an election law expert.

And finally, if you would bother to read the law, you would know that a loan made for the purpose of influencing a political campaign for Federal office is illegal if it is over $2700. Cohen made the initial payment, and was payed back. This is called a loan. It matters not one whit if if Trump repaid him out of his own pocket or with campaign funds. Any loan that exceeds $2700 is illegal, if made for the primary purpose of influencing an election. It is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison. And that’s what Cohen’s sworn testimony in open court explicitly indicates.

The hush money had nothing to do with the election at all...private transaction. As many legal experts saying nay can be lined as you have stating otherwise.

 

[TigerGrowls]

It most certainly is. IF he used it for campaign purposes. Case in point (and this part certainly applies to Trump in every way). Former Senator John Edwards. Wife was dying of cancer and he had an affair and a kid... all while trying to get reelected. He paid her (I don't remember if it was to support the kid or to keep the woman quiet ... but let's assume the worst and it was a straight payoff... like Trump). Edwards was independently wealthy and wrote the check out of his own account, that was never in question. BUT he was still tried for campaign violations. If it was straight up legal, he never would have been indited in the first place.

Edwards got off b/c he claimed (as Trump is currently doing) that the payment was to save his family, not cover up the scandal for political purposes. But just b/c you wrote the check out of a different account, doesn't stop it from being illegal. Now if you want to say that Trump was trying to save his marriage and family and made a payoff to do that, you are correct... nothing illegal. If Trump paid her off to stop the scandal from breaking... That's illegal. Period.

So Trump has a credible argument that he paid to save his marriage/family. That's why the wording of the plea deal is so important. Namely that he paid the woman by direction of Trump FOR THE PURPOSE OF INFLUENCING THE ELECTION. I think that a rational person (not you, of course) would agree that since this was done within a week of the election, there is also an argument that Trump did use the payoff so that he wouldn't take the hit in the poles.

So which is it? That's what the trial is for...

This is ridiculous. Plain and simple. Trump paid over 65 million on his own campaign legally and you guys are crying about this commensurately small amount of hush money incorrectly claiming its related to the election. This is a politically motivated attack on Trump....its not illegal at all and Trump will not be charged. This stuff is all being thrown up to give democrats their reason to try and impeach Trump if they win the house. If republicans hold the house(we know they are holding the senate) then this attempted lynching of Trump by the left is dead in its tracks. At worst he could be impeached. He will not be removed from office unless some legendary smoking gun evidence becomes known and he will then win again in 2020 as I currently see it.

 

[TigerGrowls]

So Obama was so bad but most of the shit you give trump credit for Obama had already started. Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression, turned it around, but people like you say his presidency was a failure he accomplished nothing but yet Trump has done it all in 18 months. Libertarian bullshit is just that. Just like conservative, if you are a true conservative you should be pitching a bitch over the spending that is going on. Just admit, you think Democrats are the devil and you are willing to bend your beliefs to make yourself feel better about voting and electing an orange train wreck. The train wreck who is vile, a liar, and has embraced white supremacy and the alt right. You are the company you keep.

Obama was bad because he was lying about who he is and what his goals are. He performed all kinds of bad stuff behind the scenes and his compliant media covered for him. He is a marxist and wants to transform America into just another part of the global village and that is what I believe. He was loyal to the globaI socialist movement instead of our people and our constitution. I do not give him credit for much of anything. I cant recall anything he did that I liked starting with Obamacare and the individual mandate.

Regarding the omnibus bill that Trump signed, I was pissed about that and you can go back and find a post I put on this board stating that. I will take Trumps word that he did it for the military this time and will never sign another one like it. I think Trump will work toward reigning in spending next year. I think he will shut the government down next year if it comes to it over a number of issues.

Trump has no record of racism, white supremacy or whatever. Dont show me any speculation. Show me some hard facts and I will listen to what you have to say and dont even bother saying well he said this at a press conference about there being some good people there. We are not children. Be real and give me some proof and not speculation.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Really? I am a huge Bush 41 fan. I always thought he did a great, underappreciated job. I like Ron Paul as well.

I didn't have this hatred for Obama that you seem to have though. I still think you are way too influenced by hate and right wing media. Even the Economist is going after Trump, and that should make you think about why. They are basically the height of honest, truthful, accurate reporting (and they lean right).

All of these Presidents did a few good things here and there but.......................

Bushes, Clintons, Obama are all on the same team along with most of Washington. They are globalists with primary allegiance to foreign and corporate interests over the American people. Donald Trump is the ultimate Patriot. He is fighting all this shit to help the American people. The swamp alternatively known as the deep state is running a slow coup de tat here to depose a legally elected US President and I pray to God that it fails. Trump is a hero to me for what he is doing.

If you are globalist, if you like open borders, if you like runaway taxes, if you like loss of personal freedoms. Basically if you hate our country and want it to be different, then I guess you can be honest about it and dislike Trump for those reasons. Lets be real about this. You cannot have a country without borders. The stuff that President Trump is doing and more stuff that he wants to do is whats right and well overdue to be done. I pray to God that he can get most of it done before the swamp takes him down.

 

[TigerGrowls]

So Obama was so bad but most of the shit you give trump credit for Obama had already started. Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression, turned it around, but people like you say his presidency was a failure he accomplished nothing but yet Trump has done it all in 18 months. Libertarian bullshit is just that. Just like conservative, if you are a true conservative you should be pitching a bitch over the spending that is going on. Just admit, you think Democrats are the devil and you are willing to bend your beliefs to make yourself feel better about voting and electing an orange train wreck. The train wreck who is vile, a liar, and has embraced white supremacy and the alt right. You are the company you keep.

Definitely do not agree with this.

 

[hopefultiger13]

Alright guys, I'm done here. @TigerGrowls, I"d like to thank you for keeping this civil. That doesn't happen much, especially about something that people obviously feel pretty strongly about. I think we are at a point where this just isn't fun any more (maybe I just need to see a Clemson football game or two to recharge) and we are just going back and forth.

It seems to me that we have a single point where we simply aren't going to agree, the deep state. IF you believe in that, then everything you say about what Trump is doing/saying at least sort of makes sense. If you don't believe in it, then everything Trump does is seen through a different lens. That's where I stand, I believe that the deep state is absolute crap.

 

[Rychek4]

If you are globalist, if you like open borders, if you like runaway taxes, if you like loss of personal freedoms. Basically if you hate our country

I really wish you had a better understanding of economics. Being a globalist, like Ronald Reagan, and liking open borders, aka understanding labor flows are two things that are very much a positive sum game. Is that a phrase you understand?

How do you contend with Trump's tax cuts? Ballooning the deficit will lead to run-away taxes in the future. Literally 75% of the items you listed you don't seem to grasp very well.

 

[Grumplin]

The hush money had nothing to do with the election at all...private transaction. As many legal experts saying nay can be lined as you have stating otherwise.

So you are saying that Cohen perjured himself? What facts are you basing that on?

Also no, as many legal experts have not stated otherwise. I could literally post 3 or 4 links to quotes from at least 20 legal scholars stating that these are campaign finance violations, including Rick Hasen and Erwin Chemerinsky, the preeminent election and constitutional law scholars in the country. I’ve only seen 2 or 3 legal academics of note try to say that there is no way a violation occurred.

 

[firegiver]

All of these Presidents did a few good things here and there but.......................

Bushes, Clintons, Obama are all on the same team along with most of Washington. They are globalists with primary allegiance to foreign and corporate interests over the American people. Donald Trump is the ultimate Patriot. He is fighting all this shit to help the American people. The swamp alternatively known as the deep state is running a slow coup de tat here to depose a legally elected US President and I pray to God that it fails. Trump is a hero to me for what he is doing.

If you are globalist, if you like open borders, if you like runaway taxes, if you like loss of personal freedoms. Basically if you hate our country and want it to be different, then I guess you can be honest about it and dislike Trump for those reasons. Lets be real about this. You cannot have a country without borders. The stuff that President Trump is doing and more stuff that he wants to do is whats right and well overdue to be done. I pray to God that he can get most of it done before the swamp takes him down.

My friend, I know its tough to hear this but here goes: We live in the most profitable and safest time in the history of mankind. Trump isn't saving us from anything. I'm sorry you aren't doing well enough in life right now that you think the reason for that is external conspiracies and that somehow Trump is going to fix this paranoia you've invented.
I'm glad you are engaged in politics and I hope you keep paying attention, but please stop fantasizing and notice that the man you are worshipping is a farce. Sorry but there is no evidence that Trump is some how a genius and partriot. The man has not once served his country. You don't serve yourself over everyone else for seventy years and then suddenly became a saint. Wake up.

 

[TigerGrowls]

So you are saying that Cohen perjured himself? What facts are you basing that on?

Also no, as many legal experts have not stated otherwise. I could literally post 3 or 4 links to quotes from at least 20 legal scholars stating that these are campaign finance violations, including Rick Hasen and Erwin Chemerinsky, the preeminent election and constitutional law scholars in the country. I’ve only seen 2 or 3 legal academics of note try to say that there is no way a violation occurred.

He testified for Congress last year. We will see how this plays out. This is like a lot of stuff in the last year and a half where the left think they have Trump and poof it disappears in a cloud of smoke. A lot of these stories are just put out to sensationalize the issue and erode Trump's support. We will see how this one plays out too as time goes on.

https://nypost.com/2018/08/23/cohen...now-if-donald-knew-about-trump-tower-meeting/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ohen-congress-senate-intelligence/1061775002/

This all comes down to prosecuturial leverage over Cohen. They raided his offices, his homes etc in what more than likely most would consider an illegal act and they were able to get information that should not have been available to them. They have the goods on him for stuff unrelated to Trump and are now extorting him to say what they want him to in exchange for sentencing leniency. I mean this guy is now being represented by longtime Clinton sycophant Lanny Davis who has no credibility. He got on Megyn Kelley's show asking for donations and the live audience laughed and booed at him and he can still set there with a straight face. The guy has no soul.

 

[TigerGrowls]

My friend, I know its tough to hear this but here goes: We live in the most profitable and safest time in the history of mankind. Trump isn't saving us from anything. I'm sorry you aren't doing well enough in life right now that you think the reason for that is external conspiracies and that somehow Trump is going to fix this paranoia you've invented.
I'm glad you are engaged in politics and I hope you keep paying attention, but please stop fantasizing and notice that the man you are worshipping is a farce. Sorry but there is no evidence that Trump is some how a genius and partriot. The man has not once served his country. You don't serve yourself over everyone else for seventy years and then suddenly became a saint. Wake up.

I am doing plenty well in life @firegiver while you are an arrogant prick and thats a fact. I hope you are doing well in spite of your stupid ass political beliefs and condescending personality. I am looking at our country and want it to stay free and I want it to be run in ways that I agree with. I support Trump and I am not alone. Trump has a very large and loyal support still. We will see how this plays out. Him being run down by the vastly liberal media and our corrupted DOJ/FBI will not stop my support. I would need to see a smoking gun to turn away from Trump in the form of something I believe and not what the Rachel Maddows and other swinish personalities on TV tell me.

 

[TigerGrowls]

I really wish you had a better understanding of economics. Being a globalist, like Ronald Reagan, and liking open borders, aka understanding labor flows are two things that are very much a positive sum game. Is that a phrase you understand?

How do you contend with Trump's tax cuts? Ballooning the deficit will lead to run-away taxes in the future. Literally 75% of the items you listed you don't seem to grasp very well.

We do not agree on economics @Rychek4 I think you are wrong and do not understand and thats ok if we do not agree. Lower taxes and higher economic output generate more revenue, but thats separate from spending. Ronald Reagan had the same problem in the 80's. He vastly increased revenue, but did not control spending. Trump made a mistake signing the omnibus bill and I have stated that multiple times and do not agree with him doing it, but he has stated on record that he wanted to re build the military on this budget and held his nose and signed it. He said he will never sign another bill of that nature and I am waiting to see how it plays out.

Castigating Trump who is creating all time record revenue collections by the government in individual months is not right and this from a perspective that the democratic view is to tax higher and look at the economy as a closed end sum math project where total revenue is finite and cannot be changed is not right. Democratic Party has no ecomomic plans at all. There entire operation is to lie and say anything they can to get elected and then do whatever the hell they want afterwards and thats mainly to raise taxes, blame republicans when they govern against their campaign words and advance globalist agendas. Trump at least keeps his word.

 

[Rychek4]

We do not agree on economics @Rychek4 I think you are wrong and do not understand and thats ok if we do not agree.

If you think being a globalist is wrong or un-American, economically, then I find your ability to take a stand on an issue with which you are monumentally uniformed or misinformed to be impressively ignorant.

You won't find a conservative economic scholar, short of some Trump apologists probably, that would agree with you in the last 75 years. Hell, Glenn Beck agrees with me on this.

 

[TigerGrowls]

If you think being a globalist is wrong or un-American, economically, then I find your ability to take a stand on an issue with which you are monumentally uniformed or misinformed to be impressively ignorant.

You won't find a conservative economic scholar, short of some Trump apologists probably, that would agree with you in the last 75 years. Hell, Glenn Beck agrees with me on this.

We will have to disagree on this one @Rychek4 I am not an islotionist. I feel that American has been letting these other countries take us to the cleaners for a long time on these trade deals and we cannot afford it any longer. China in particular will probably surpass us on the world stage unless drastic measures are taken. None of these countries want to discontinue the sweet heart trade deals that have went on for a long time. I am for free and fair trade that includes no restrictions on the US selling products in those countries. China will be more than happy to dictate to the US if they ever get a strong advantage and I do not want to see it happen. This is also about multi national corporations basically buying control of our government over the years. They control the politicians to get them to sign these unfair trade deals so they can produce their products in other countries for pennies on the dollar and ship them back into the US with no tariffs. This practice may have been ok in years past as the US was so far ahead of a lot of other countries, but we have done our fair share of carrying a lot of load. Lets get some free and fair trade and I will be happy with it.


Its ok that we do not agree and thats why we have elections and people get to vote and express their viewpoints peacefully. I am very locked into my viewpoints on this and it would take a lot to change my mind. God Bless America.

 

[Rychek4]

We will have to disagree on this one @Rychek4 I feel that American has been letting these other countries take us to the cleaners for a long time on these trade deals

Why do you feel this way? Almost all our trade deals are either extremely fair, or slightly favor the U.S.

You should probably not feel your policy's, you should research them.

I'll just be sitting here with the Cato Institute while you think of an answer.

 

[firegiver]

I am doing plenty well in life @firegiver while you are an arrogant prick and thats a fact. I hope you are doing well in spite of your stupid ass political beliefs and condescending personality. I am looking at our country and want it to stay free and I want it to be run in ways that I agree with. I support Trump and I am not alone. Trump has a very large and loyal support still. We will see how this plays out. Him being run down by the vastly liberal media and our corrupted DOJ/FBI will not stop my support. I would need to see a smoking gun to turn away from Trump in the form of something I believe and not what the Rachel Maddows and other swinish personalities on TV tell me.

You are sandbagging. You wouldn't believe anything anyone tells you that doesn't fit with your narrative. I don't care about what you think of me, because despite any contrary evidence, you wouldn't change your mind.
You state opinions and call them facts. You might be as arrogant as you think I am, and not nearly self aware.

 

[clemben]

Is a secret child born out of wedlock and covered up a bridge too far for anyone? If Trump fathered this child would anyone care?

Sad.