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The United States Should Exit NATO. Momentum Building - Zelensky Says “Fvck Trump”?

Gonna be sad when NATO invokes Article 5 and the US refuses; considering the only time Article 5 has been invoked was by us and everyone answered the call.

So a NATO member chooses to jump into the middle of an active conflict between two Non-NATO nations and that somehow obligates us to get involved in the fight? Really? Are you sure?

Regardless, why would it be sad that we don't send people to die for some bombed out land in Ukraine that won't matter to the United States who owns it one way or the other? You would be sad?
 
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So a NATO member chooses to jump into the middle of an active conflict between two Non-NATO nations and that somehow obligates us to get involved in the fight? Really? Are you sure?

Regardless, why would it be sad that we don't send people to die for some bombed out land in Ukraine that won't matter to the United States who owns it one way or the other? You would be sad?
If NATO troops decide to assist Ukraine and they invoke article 5, yes we would likely be obligated to assist.

I’d be sad that we abandoned our allies after they answered the call when we made it. This whole Trump trend of abandoning our historical allies to side with dictators and despots is an alarming trend.

I have no desire to send US troops to war, but if for whatever reason NATO gets involved and eventually invokes article 5 I believe it’s our duty to honor the pledge.

While I agree with Trump’s desire for NATO to increase their military contributions, there’s a good reason it’s been this way for so long. Europe has a far bigger population and lots of advantages that the U.S. doesn’t have (and likewise the U.S. has other advantages based on geography). In the early 90s, around the time of the NATO Allies’ Implementation of Reciprocal Defense Agreements, Europe in effect took a step back from militarism and opened up to US companies to trade. The same way that the Japanese did in the U.S.

Militarism (and ending their empires) downgraded in return for peace and allowing the U.S. to take on that role. In return the U.S. Has enjoyed unprecedented access to a peaceful European both militarily and commercially.
 
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It should be pointed out that the majority included independents at the time of the election but now his approval is underwater by 18 points w/independents in this latest SSRS poll and this was before Trump's outburst on Friday, so I expect the numbers to get worse from here. And without independents, it's hard to argue that the US is aligned with Trump's values.

Totally FAKE NEWS!!! The Trump agenda and actions are very popular. Well over 50% currently.
 
1. Do you not find it strange that your twitter follows are spreading Kremlin disinformation badmouthing our historical allies?
2. What are the people being arrested posting about that leads to their arrest? Is it people broadcasting hate speech and promoting violence? Are they deliberate disinformation posts that are leading to innocent people being harassed/harmed/etc?

I'd like some details showing what these people in the UK are posting which is leading them to being arrested. Matt Jukes, the Assistant Commissioner of Counter Terrorism with Scotland Yard, said it's people inciting violence/threatening violence to individuals.*

*
What a winner. I would be surprised if you are not gagging with the amount of leftist BS you are swallowing.
 
AI's not far off comparing the amount of arrests across 44 countries that have, in total, 5x the population of Russia? So, we've moved the goalposts from arrests in the UK to arrests across 44 countries to be compared/contrasted against 1 country?

You should just save everyone the time and just admit you follow Kremlin-backed accounts who are trying to disrupt America's alliances.
The fact that any are being arrested for opinions or being pissed off that young girls are being raped by middle eastern immigrants and venting due to no law enforcement help is a huge problem and is not what a supposedly free nation does.
 
I don't recall the Biden admin demanding speech be censored on social media. I recall both Biden and Trump administrations reaching out to social media companies to see if they can reign in disinformation, but i don't recall seeing any demands levied, nor punishments applied should the social media companies do nothing.

I get that you don't really have any ability to discuss these topics in good faith, but it's funny seeing you go down this particular path wrt to Russia and our current European allies. Is it your belief that our values more closely align with a Russian dictatorship than with European democracies?
Horseshit proven that you still spew. Acting like a human shit dispenser.
 
Totally FAKE NEWS!!! The Trump agenda and actions are very popular. Well over 50% currently.

you-sure-about-that-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson.gif

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He keeps trying to pedal the old fake polls. The same regurgitated trick from 2020. But no one buys that BS anymore. We are all wise to their ways.
Gallup is fake news lol? Out of 540 pollsters, they come in at #44. Outside of hard-core magas, why would any of his agenda items except deporting illegals be popular with the majority of Americans? He's actively making things more difficult for most Americans, not better.
 
Gallup is fake news lol? Out of 540 pollsters, they come in at #44. Outside of hard-core magas, why would any of his agenda items except deporting illegals be popular with the majority of Americans? He's actively making things more difficult for most Americans, not better.

The tweets below are the equivalent of your poll. They are meaningless. We already voted.

Who is the leader in the polls for the Democrats in 2028?


 
The tweets below are the equivalent of your poll. They are meaningless. We already voted.

Who is the leader in the polls for the Democrats in 2028?


After he crashes the economy, destroys all services that benefit Americans, makes us friendless and invites Putin into the White House, I'm starting to think PeeWee Herman could beat him in 2028 and he's dead. I mean, that assumes he doesn't destroy the election system in a way that no one can challenge his third term.
 
After he crashes the economy, destroys all services that benefit Americans, makes us friendless and invites Putin into the White House, I'm starting to think PeeWee Herman could beat him in 2028 and he's dead. I mean, that assumes he doesn't destroy the election system in a way that no one can challenge his third term.
OK. Pee Wee herman is better than Donald Trump and Joe Biden is sharp as a tack. About what i expected from you. I like JD Vance's chances.

Jasmine Crocket is doing a great job as the leader of the democratic party right now. Hopefully y'all can coalesce around her message.
 
OK. Pee Wee herman is better than Donald Trump and Joe Biden is sharp as a tack. About what i expected from you. I like JD Vance's chances.

Jasmine Crocket is doing a great job as the leader of the democratic party right now. Hopefully y'all can coalesce around her message.
LOL, JD is historically unpopular and doesn't come close to having Trump's strangely powerful charisma. Did you see he got chased out of Vermont on his ski vacation last weekend?
 
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LOL, JD is historically unpopular and doesn't come close to having Trump's strangely powerful charisma. Did you see he got chased out of Vermont on his ski vacation last weekend?
Did you see him smack down Zelensky and stand up for America in front of the world? He was a natural fit for the Oval office.

He was the impetus for the major changes coming. No one better to keep carrying the torch.
 
We're not leaving NATO.

Norway didn't refuse to refuel our ships. A company CEO said they may do that. The Norwegian government told the company very quickly that they will refuel our ships.

Subs don't really require refueling. They're all nukes.

Trump will bluster but he is not having the US leave NATO

He is creating leverage to push the countries of NATO to spend up to 5% of their GNP on defense

Many of the NATO countries do not have competent soldiers or equipment in quantities to fight Russia

Need to upgrade to a fighting force level and not weekend campers
 
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Did you see him smack down Zelensky and stand up for America in front of the world? He was a natural fit for the Oval office.

He was the impetus for the major changes coming. No one better to keep carrying the torch.
Are you under the impression that the majority of Americans saw that the same way as you did through your deeply partisan lens?
 
OK. Pee Wee herman is better than Donald Trump and Joe Biden is sharp as a tack. About what i expected from you. I like JD Vance's chances.

Jasmine Crocket is doing a great job as the leader of the democratic party right now. Hopefully y'all can coalesce around her message.

Loving AOC and Jasmine Crockett as voices of the DEMOCRATS

Could not have asked for better spokespersons on why to be a Republican

Of course there are real doozies on the Democrats

I hope they never figure it out that calling names and saying Trump is lying and insulting and blind batcrap crazy resistance against policies many American's desire like by 80/20 RATIO

Just keep doing what the Democrats are doing

And trump just keep doing what you are doing

Then Common Sense Christian Conservative Constitutional Shaped Values will rule America
 
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So a NATO member chooses to jump into the middle of an active conflict between two Non-NATO nations and that somehow obligates us to get involved in the fight? Really? Are you sure?

Regardless, why would it be sad that we don't send people to die for some bombed out land in Ukraine that won't matter to the United States who owns it one way or the other? You would be sad?

AMEN
 
I believe in patriotism, protecting cultures across the globe and that each nation should put their needs above others. However, if you can not produce enough food to feed your entire population, find enough employees to support a thriving economy, have natural resources that can fulfill all manufacturing needs then it is not feasible to have a total isolationist foreign policy approach. It is 2025, nations are competing against each other for human, technological and nature resources, China will owe the global if we commit to this path.

For those that only get their news from social media accounts that say what you like to hear, I would suggest subscribe to a few that will give you a competing view. We all need more balance. It does not mean you have to agree or like it but you will have a broader perspective of important issues.
 
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I believe in patriotism, protecting cultures across the globe and that each nation should put their needs above others. However, if you can not produce enough food to feed your entire population, find enough employees to support a thriving economy, have natural resources that can fulfill all manufacturing needs then it is not feasible to have a total isolationist foreign policy approach. It is 2025, nations are competing against each other for human, technological and nature resources, China will owe the global if we commit to this path.

For those that only get their news from social media accounts that say what you like to hear, I would suggest subscribe to a few that will give you a competing view. We all need more balance. It does not mean you have to agree or like it but you will have a broader perspective of important issues.

Trump admin is not isolationist. They will not allow our nation to be taken advantage of anymore though. There is a hell of a lot we can do right here in the USA though. We will still have plenty of willing partners though so it's just going to get better under the Trump doctrine imo.
 
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"Mr president, Mr prime minister, ladies and gentlemen ministers, my dear colleagues.

Europe is at a critical turning point in its history. The American shield is crumbling, Ukraine risks being abandoned, Russia strengthened.
Washington has become the court of Nero, a fiery emperor, submissive courtiers and a ketamine-fuelled jester in charge of purging the civil service.

This is a tragedy for the free world, but it is first and foremost a tragedy for the United States. Trump’s message is that there is no point in being his ally since he will not defend you, he will impose more customs duties on you than on his enemies and will threaten to seize your territories while supporting the dictatorships that invade you. The king of the deal is showing what the art of the deal is all about. He thinks he will intimidate China by lying down before Putin, but Xi Jinping, faced with such a shipwreck, is probably accelerating preparations for the invasion of Taiwan.

Never in history has a president of the United States capitulated to the enemy. Never has anyone supported an aggressor against an ally. Never has anyone trampled on the American Constitution, issued so many illegal decrees, dismissed judges who could have prevented him from doing so, dismissed the military general staff in one fell swoop, weakened all checks and balances, and taken control of social media.

This is not an illiberal drift, it is the beginning of the confiscation of democracy. Let us remember that it took only one month, three weeks and two days to bring down the Weimar Republic and its constitution.

I have faith in the strength of American democracy, and the country is already protesting. But in one month, Trump has done more harm to America than in four years of his last presidency. We were at war with a dictator, now we are fighting a dictator backed by a traitor.
Eight days ago, at the very moment that Trump was rubbing Macron’s back in the White House, the United States voted at the UN with Russia and North Korea against the Europeans demanding the withdrawal of Russian troops.

Two days later, in the Oval Office, the military service shirker was giving war hero Zelensky lessons in morality and strategy before dismissing him like a groom, ordering him to submit or resign.

Tonight, he took another step into infamy by stopping the delivery of weapons that had been promised. What to do in the face of this betrayal? The answer is simple: face it.

And first of all, let’s not be mistaken. The defeat of Ukraine would be the defeat of Europe. The Baltic States, Georgia and Moldova are already on the list. Putin’s goal is to return to Yalta, where half the continent was ceded to Stalin.

The countries of the south are waiting for the outcome of the conflict to decide whether they should continue to respect Europe or whether they are now free to trample on it.

What Putin wants is the end of the order put in place by the United States and its allies 80 years ago, with its first principle being the prohibition of acquiring territory by force.

This idea is at the very source of the UN, where today Americans vote in favor of the aggressor and against the attacked, because the Trumpian vision coincides with that of Putin: a return to spheres of influence, the great powers dictating the fate of small countries.
Mine is Greenland, Panama and Canada, yours is Ukraine, the Baltics and Eastern Europe, his is Taiwan and the China Sea. This is called, in the evenings of the oligarchs of the Gulf of Mar-a-Lago, “diplomatic realism”.

So we are alone. But the talk that Putin cannot be resisted is false. Contrary to the Kremlin’s propaganda, Russia is in bad shape. In three years, the so-called second largest army in the world has managed to grab only crumbs from a country three times less populated.
Interest rates at 25%, the collapse of foreign exchange and gold reserves and the demographic collapse show that it is on the brink of the abyss. The American helping hand to Putin is the biggest strategic mistake ever made in a war.

The shock is violent, but it has a virtue. Europeans are coming out of denial. They understood in one day in Munich that the survival of Ukraine and the future of Europe are in their hands and that they have three imperatives.

Accelerate military aid to Ukraine to compensate for the American abandonment, so that it holds out, and of course to impose its presence and that of Europe in any negotiation.

This will be expensive. It will be necessary to end the taboo of the use of frozen Russian assets. It will be necessary to circumvent Moscow’s accomplices within Europe itself by a coalition of only the willing countries, with, of course, the United Kingdom.

Second, demand that any agreement be accompanied by the return of kidnapped children, prisoners and absolute security guarantees. After Budapest, Georgia and Minsk, we know what agreements with Putin are worth. These guarantees require sufficient military force to prevent a new invasion.

Finally, and this is the most urgent, because it is what will take the most time, we must build the neglected European defence, to the benefit of the American umbrella since 1945 and scuttled since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

It is a Herculean task, but it is on its success or failure that the leaders of today’s democratic Europe will be judged in the history books.
Friedrich Merz has just declared that Europe needs its own military alliance. This is to recognise that France has been right for decades in arguing for strategic autonomy.

It remains to be built. It will be necessary to invest massively, to strengthen the European Defence Fund outside the Maastricht debt criteria, to harmonise weapons and munitions systems, to accelerate the entry into the Union of Ukraine, which is today the leading European army, to rethink the place and conditions of nuclear deterrence based on French and British capabilities, to relaunch the anti-missile shield and satellite programs.

The plan announced yesterday by Ursula von der Leyen is a very good starting point. And much more will be needed.
Europe will only become a military power again by becoming an industrial power again. In a word, the Draghi report will have to be implemented. For good.

But the real rearmament of Europe is its moral rearmament.

We must convince public opinion in the face of war weariness and fear, and especially in the face of Putin’s cronies, the extreme right and the extreme left.

They argued again yesterday in the National Assembly, Mr Prime Minister, before you, against European unity, against European defence.

They say they want peace. What neither they nor Trump say is that their peace is capitulation, the peace of defeat, the replacement of de Gaulle Zelensky by a Ukrainian Pétain at Putin’s beck and call.

The peace of the collaborators who have refused any aid to the Ukrainians for three years.

Is this the end of the Atlantic Alliance? The risk is great. But in the last few days, the public humiliation of Zelensky and all the crazy decisions taken in the last month have finally made the Americans react.

Polls are falling. Republican lawmakers are being greeted by hostile crowds in their constituencies. Even Fox News is becoming critical.
The Trumpists are no longer in their majesty. They control the executive, the parliament, the Supreme Court and social networks.
But in American history, the freedom fighters have always prevailed. They are beginning to raise their heads.

The fate of Ukraine is being played out in the trenches, but it also depends on those in the United States who want to defend democracy, and here on our ability to unite Europeans, to find the means for their common defence, and to make Europe the power that it once was in history and that it hesitates to become again.

Our parents defeated fascism and communism at great cost.

The task of our generation is to defeat the totalitarianisms of the 21st century.

Long live free Ukraine, long live democratic Europe."
 
Shameful what we've become in less than two months. Elon is a cancer.



So Elon Musk is out here calling Poland’s Foreign Minister a “small man” and telling him to “be quiet”—because nothing says strategic genius like insulting one of America’s closest allies.

Musk and Trump are speedrunning America’s fall from global leadership, all because their fragile egos can’t handle criticism.

Poland has been on the frontlines supporting Ukraine, bolstering NATO, and strengthening Western alliances—but sure, let’s pick fights with them instead.

This delusional billionaire superiority complex isn’t strength. It’s how empires collapse—thinking you’re untouchable while alienating the very people keeping you from sinking.America’s greatest threat? It’s own arrogance.

 
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