You still don't get it - we are confident of Trump's rejection! derp
Tim Scott - Presidential Candidate
- Thread starter OleFastball
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Yes, absolutely! If there are 35 Million people who greatly reduce their need for healthcare bc they are no longer obese, how could that NOT reduce costs? Not to mention the fact that a significant percentage of those people are probably also on medicare or medicaid, which would bring additional massive savings.
The fact that you even question if it would impact costs is simply ridiculous. If we get to the middle of the pack @ 20% that 35M would go to 53M+. Your position on obesity and cost of healthcare is simply unintelligent. Also, lets remove all treatments/cures/meds/etc. developed in America and see if it impacts heath care and costs in those other countries, lol. I suppose you think that would have no impact either, right?
Reduced cost for healthcare companies and insurance companies doesn’t mean reduced cost for Americans, it means more profit for healthcare companies and insurance companies.
Trumps going to deliver it in two weeks
You don’t understand how this works. My career is working with health insurance companies. They have to abide by certain medical loss ratios that prevent excessive profits. As medical claims decline, premiums must go down to stay within guidelines. Bonus- it will force administrative cost reductions as well since those are on the same side of the ledger as profits.
There is also competition based on premium rates, so when costs go down, competitors will negotiate down rates to win business. More competition is coming too. The BCBS Association passed legislation allowing multiple BCBS plans to compete in the same geography. Previously, as an example, no other BCBS plan could bid on a SC-based company other than BCBSSC.
There is clearly excess at the very top of the national payers, but most regional plans and even state-based BCBS plans run on pretty lean margins. Most BCBS plans are technically non-profits.
His point on Medicare and Medicaid is also valid. They don’t have “profits.” Every dollar of medical claims avoided because someone ate a salad instead of a Big Mac is a dollar saved for the taxpayer. And considering these two programs account for over a quarter of the entire federal budget, we sure could use a lot more salads.
See my post above. You don’t know how health insurance companies operate.
How does the current healthcare system promote obesity and how would socialized medicine correct obesity?
I don’t know that any healthcare system particularly promotes or corrects obesity, but I certainly think that socialized medicine would provide many more people with better access to healthcare, which could have an impact on the lifestyle choices people make.
I tend to think that the only type of government actions or policies that could really have an impact on obesity would stem from regulations on food. I would fully support government initiatives - federal or state - to provide free lunches in public schools with heavy regulations on what food can be served. I’d also support tighter restrictions on what types of food can be purchased with snap benefits. Perhaps if we can get a grip on childhood obesity, it can help thin out (see what I did there?) the obesity problem in future generations.
Ultimately though, its pretty difficult to regulate a person‘s individual choices on diet and exercise. And so what needs to be dealt with in the immediate future is the reality of the situation, we need to deal with what’s happening in the real world everyday. And what’s happening in the real world everyday here in the wealthiest country in the world is that, in an instant, a person’s financial life can be completely decimated by any health issue whether its caused by their choices or not. Even people with health insurance can face huge costs. And obviously there are plenty of people who do live healthy lifestyles who still end up with cancer or heart disease or get in a car wreck and break their leg or whatever else might happen to them whose lives are completely changed by those financial consequences.
I’m all for talking about personal responsibility and making good choices, but that rhetoric doesn’t mesh with the real world that we live in in this country where so many people can’t make a liveable wage and have little to no protections in the work place and where there really isn’t such a thing as a “good choice” because every option they have is a bad one and where almost everyone’s ability to pay for their basic healthcare needs can vanish if the company they work for decides to lay them off.
Are you so blinded by politics/ideology/etc. that you believe this to be true? The fact that you can make complete sentences tells me your IQ is high enough to see some real world benefits if you were discussing this in good faith. Clearly you have departed from reality.
Even if you have no clue how the healthcare system and/or insurance works(which is evident), you still would have to see significant $$$ benefits. Easy example: if someone either does not develop diabetes or reduces the severity bc they are not obese, not only does it mean the cost of their healthcare to insurance companies goes down- you know what else it means? It means that they(the individual) will be paying ZERO for the healthcare they no longer need!
I didn’t say there’s no benefit to reducing the level of obesity lol. Obviously there’s tons of benefits both for individuals and society at large. I’m arguing that that alone doesn’t fix the immediate crisis in American healthcare and that American companies have no built in incentive to pass on lower costs to consumers, though @scotchtiger provided some clarity on that.
That’s more to say, that arguing that the fix to the American health care system is for people to just take personal responsibility and eat right is actually arguing in bad faith as it ignores the trove of systemic issues that diet and exercise cannot fix.
Since we are on the topic of healthcare, SC has a great program offering healthcare to people with disabilities. All children with disabilities qualify, for adults there is a means qualification. 100% of bills are covered for care received in our state.
Any parents of children with disabilities (autism etc) should check out the TEFRA program.
Any parents of children with disabilities (autism etc) should check out the TEFRA program.
While most of what you said is accurate, the innovative part depends on what and how you're measuring it. There are many idexs out there for you to peruse. And even if you were correct, that doesn't change the fact that we have an inefficient system that is geared to enrich certain entities.Best is relative I suppose. If you need a sophisticated surgery, and only want the best, where are you going? Norway? Or maybe Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, etc…
Who develops the best medications on the world? Who develops the best treatments?
Like it or not, our capitalistic healthcare system has resulted the the best innovation in healthcare in the entire world and has driven the advancement of treatments that now span the globe.
And let’s not pretend that a cutover to socialized medicine solves some of the underlying issues in US healthcare. We have an unhealthy foundational population completely unrelated to the healthcare funding mechanism. Just look at obesity rates. US tips the scales at a whopping 36.2% of adults being obese. Not overweight, obese. This leads to a host of chronic conditions, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, musculoskeletal disorders, etc.
Socialized medicine doesn’t fix that.
European countries range from 19-26%. The difference has a massive impact on healthcare costs.
Perhaps we should get laser focused on fixing the obesity epidemic, among other preventative measures, instead of turning the entire system on its head. The same system that is the undisputed leader in healthcare innovation worldwide.
Obesity Rates by Country 2024
worldpopulationreview.com
This exactly. Hard to understand how anyone can look around the world, with decades of data available, and not understand how screwed up our system is for user/payer.
So you acknowledge we have an inefficient system which seemingly means you want an efficient system.
Do you think socializing medicine will make it more efficient?
It has in many countries around the world. The challenge for Republicans remains that same, instead of saying what you don't like, how about present a plan? I'm still waiting to hear what Donald Trump's Health Care plan is. He literally ran in 2016 on Repeal and Replace Obamacare, and couldn't/didn't ever release a plan to replace it with.
Nobody thinks that current system is great, so what is your plan?
One of my absolute biggest gripes with the GOP. Talked about replacing Obamacare for YEARS, and when they had the opportunity, they had no solutions.
Honestly, while Many of the further left ideas are not things I'm comfortable with, at least the Democrats have plans. I don't love them all, they need tweaking, some are too expensive or idealistic but at least you know what they would like to do.
The Republicans literally have no plans. They just talk about what they don't like, literally no plans.
The lack of a plan with healthcare was the moment I began to drift from the Republican party. However, I think the democrats' plans are worse than no plans at all - at least in the major categories I care about - so I'll continue to vote against them.
I disagree with Republicans on nutrition for sure. I think there should be a carrot and stick approach. Invest in healthy food and education, provide heathy lunch options, etc. The ROI here is positive (argument should resonate with fiscal conservatives...). Adults should also be penalized for not taking care of themselves in the form of higher premiums (or maybe "discount" those adults who do take care of themselves).
Of course you aren't going to win any GOP primaries talking to a bunch of people who eat at Fatz Cafe and Golden Corral that being overweight isn't okay and is a leading contributor to our bloated healthcare system. Even though that's reality.
I don't know about your living wage, work place protections argument. The best way to protect yourself in the workplace is to do a great job and add substantive value to your employer. The best way to make a higher wage is to do a great job and add substantive value to an organization.
Our summer nanny started this week. She's making $25/hr. We have had a ton of landscaping and construction projects around the house lately. The workers - many of whom barely speak english - are making $18-20/hr+ per my discussions with some of the contractors. Unemployment is at 3.4%.
How little value must you add to the economy if you can't make a livable wage right now?
Even so, here is the healthcare.gov page discussing options for the unemployed. This also applies to the underemployed. We already provide coverage and access for people via Medicaid, CHIP (kids) and subsidized plans through the Marketplace (Obamacare).
So... We are already paying for those who can't (or won't) pay for themselves.
My plan would be based on capitalism
And not socialism.
I would rather try something that might work than something guaranteed to fail.
I’ll admit there is not an obvious solution.
The US does due to the numerous government grants and funding that is given to private institutions, which then go on to privatize the profits of the publicly funded R&D.Best is relative I suppose. If you need a sophisticated surgery, and only want the best, where are you going? Norway? Or maybe Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, etc…
Who develops the best medications on the world? Who develops the best treatments?
Like it or not, our capitalistic healthcare system has resulted the the best innovation in healthcare in the entire world and has driven the advancement of treatments that now span the globe.
And let’s not pretend that a cutover to socialized medicine solves some of the underlying issues in US healthcare. We have an unhealthy foundational population completely unrelated to the healthcare funding mechanism. Just look at obesity rates. US tips the scales at a whopping 36.2% of adults being obese. Not overweight, obese. This leads to a host of chronic conditions, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, musculoskeletal disorders, etc.
Socialized medicine doesn’t fix that.
European countries range from 19-26%. The difference has a massive impact on healthcare costs.
Perhaps we should get laser focused on fixing the obesity epidemic, among other preventative measures, instead of turning the entire system on its head. The same system that is the undisputed leader in healthcare innovation worldwide.
Obesity Rates by Country 2024
The US has the best healthcare for those that can afford the health insurance and treatment costs. The rest of the first world who have a "socialized" medical industry have the best healthcare (i.e. don't bankrupt their citizens) for those that aren't so wealthy.
Sure, that’s the “best” way as it is right now, but is that the “best” was we, as a society, can protect workers?
I’ve seen, and I’m sure you’ve seen, good hardworking people who bring value let go because the company has decided to cut costs. And typically who they decide to let go feels rather arbitrary, rarely based on performance and instead based on whatever cost cutting metric the company has decided on. Those people lost their salary, their health insurance all in an instant and it wasn’t because they weren’t valuable.
We give so much power over our lives away to the companies that employ us. Socialized healthcare reclaims some of that power.
I think that your response here is pretty typical of someone who has had financial success and is in a position to say “well just work harder” when the reality on the ground for a lot of people isn’t that their jobs are particularly protected just by “adding value.” I myself have been searching for a higher paying job and have largely been unable to even secure interviews and I’ve got 9 years of sales management experience with a successful track record and an MBA.
The “just work harder” model simply isn’t the reality in much of America anymore.
So what's your plan? What is Trump's plan? Does anybody you pull for actually have a freaking plan? It's far easier to say something isn't good, then say how you'd fix it.
The first time around Trump said all the things he was gonna fix, but had no plans to actually accomplish anything, and what do you know, he didn't actually accomplish anything. Why do you possibly think it would be better this time? He still has no plans for anything.
I do not have a plan. I just know socialism doesn't work and produces shitty societies. I also am of the opinion that America has the best healthcare in the world right now. If I have cancer I want to go to MD Anderson in Dallas and no where else in the world.
I agree that republicans should have a plan, but i'm not going to pretend like i have researched the issue enough to have a strong opinion and argue with you about it.
I know a few doctors who are going direct pay and circumventing the whole insurance process. I think this will trend will pick up steam and become more common.
So you don't know anything about other plans, but you just "know" that other plans, including public supported plans don't work? Based on what? Social=Bad for you, even if you have no history,experience, or education about it?
No i said socialism doesn't work and produces shitty societies. There is a lot of history to support that.
You do realize that many,many parts of our country are socialized right? Education,Police,Army,Border Control, Mail Service, some elements of electrical grid, many,many others.
You say Socialism and I say socialized. They aren't the same thing. Sometimes an industry is for the common good and needs to be regulated and partially or fully social so everyone has access to it.
You unwittingly made the point.
Education is not good. The border is awful. Your party wanted to defund the police. Mail service runs at a massive deficit.
Mail service isn't supposed to be profitable, education is the best it's even been on America by all measurable metrics. Refund the police was a dumb phrase,but nobody wanted to eliminate police.
the border is also not awful, but I'd love to hear the Republican parties plan to fix it.... Oh wait....
Trump had a plan to fix the border. Do you remember a phrase called "Build the Wall"
Mail service isnt supposed to be profitable? Lol, thats socialism.
Defund the police is probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard and yes your party loudly advocated for that. They advocated for that because the thought they were doing a poor job.
The border is absolutely awful. You are denying that just like you deny Adam Schiff intentionally lied to the American public. You deny reality.
I'll choose capitalism over socialism at every turn, including in healthcare.
Thanks for making my point for me.
Trump had no plan. You are clearly clueless. I've tried very hard to actually converse with you, in spite of you trying to insult me at every turn. It's not worth the effort since you clearly are not open to another viewpoint, or learning anything.
You need to actually learn the difference between social programs, and Socialism. One is a political/Economic system. One is public supported programs and services.
The happiest people in the whole world love in Countries that have much more social programs than we do in America. We are rich in the US, but we aren't happy.
More social programs make people happier like Venezuela? We're not happy in this country because we are big babies who THINK we got it so bad.
I was referring to Finland and Denmark. Obviously it's not a be all end all, but neither are Social programs the devil either. I'm so tired of nobody having any ability to use nuance and be able to understand that their are shades, everything isn't Black and White.
Also true about how spoiled we are. Travel really opened my eyes up to how rich we are in comparison.
If fiscall conservatism is what you care about, the republicans have consistently voted to sky rocket our debt with tax cuts and NO spending cuts while they are in power. They keep playing the game of cutting taxes while they are in power and boycotting debt ceiling raises when dems are in power.... WHY DO GOP VOTERS GO ALONG WITH THIS OBVIOUS BULLSHIT?
The difference between social programs and socialism? and you are telling me i don't understand? C'mon bro.
You tell me that i insult you but you tell me I'm clueless, not open to other viewpoint. You think you are elite and talking down to me. I got news for you, you aren't elite and you don't know any more than i do. It's called different opinions, and that is OK.
Which one of these socialist countries do you want to be like?
China
Cuba
El Salvador
Bolivia
Ethiopia
Greece
North Korea
Tanzania
Uruguay
Venezuela
Vietnam
Which one is so much better than us?
You say you understand the difference, and then proceed, to list Socialist Countries, not countries with a vast amount of social programs. They aren't the same thing. I also never said they were better, just that some were happier.
I never claimed to be "Elite", however, I am educated, I have been very successful in my career, I am very blessed in life.
Not sure what about any of that seems to threaten you, but you started with the insults first, I stated the fact that you are ignorant. You continue to post and prove that you are ignorant, and apparently willfully so.
Which one of those countries would you say are happier than the US?
I also am educated (clemson), very successful in my career and beyond blessed in life.
I'm not threatened at all. I am not ignorant. I am very smart and very successful and very fullfilled. You accuse me of name calling but there you go again. Rules for thee but not for me. Typical elitist behavior.
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