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********** WEDNESDAY UPDATE **********

Tillman Hall name change is long overdue.
None of us were there and memories are individualized and customized. Psychological fact.
In any case the word should not have been repeated, used, uttered, nothing by that coach and it was clearly not addressed to the satisfaction of the team. That must be rectified.
To think that Coach Swinney would allow or participate in racist, hurtful or hateful behavior toward anyone is unbelievable. But his intent and these players feelings are separate and i have to believe that with full knowledge of how the incident and the actions around it were received as disappointing and unsupportive that he will do the right thing. For those who say it is too late, it isn't. If he did not fully understand then but has achieved understanding now then now is the time. Or he might just take his contract money and say there's no pleasing this crowd so f all y'all, im out.
 
what does "promote a false agenda" even mean? Dabo couldn't even be bothered to acknowledge the existence of inherent advantages of whiteness that black men do not enjoy in this country as well as the numerous injustices suffered in interactions with police. TL16 did that in his tweets on the subject. Why couldn't Dabo?

LOL why does Dabo need to “acknowledge the existence of inherent advantages of whiteness?” White privilege is a separate issue from racism and police brutality against African Americans. I understand you feel they are related, but Dabo did not for one minute need to talk about white privilege at his press conference. Now, could he have expounded a bit more on the issue of white police officers killing unarmed African Americans? Sure, that’s fair.

But let’s not get crazy here.
 
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One thing about the strategy is I absolutely would not hold any press conference in the short term. This story is not blowing up because there is no video, no visuals. It’s starving in that regard and that’s a good thing for Clemson - there is very little content to socialize. At some point Dabo probably has to go on camera but it should After an action is taken, should be one forum, one time, and then be done with it. If There is an action taken, Dabo does one good interview and sticks the landing, this gets over.
I was expecting sports radio in Columbia to make a big deal about it today, but they did not. They mentioned it a few times but they weren't calling him a racist. They could see why some people did not like him using the N-word, but they also understood he was mocking Greenlee and trying to get him to stop using the N-word. A couple of their opinions though were they did not see why Clemson would keep Pearman since he evidently is not a great coach or recruiter.
Edited to add, as has been discussed here many times, the TE position here the last few years has been woeful. However Pearman did have a run of 7 or 8 years s having an All-ACC TE (1st, 2nd, or 3rd team). He also, according to some in the know, is a savant at diagnosing defenses and putting us in the right play from the booth.
 
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LOL why does Dabo need to “acknowledge the existence of inherent advantages of whiteness?” White privileged is a separate issue from racism and police brutality against African Americans. I understand you feel they are related, but Dabo did not for one minute need to talk about white privilege at his press conference. Now, could he have expounded a bit more on the issue of white police officers killing unarmed African Americans? Sure, that’s fair.

But let’s not get crazy here.
Some people feel like everybody has to give their life to critical race theory
 
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The way I read DJ's account, Pearman jumped his case for missing an assignment. Then when Milan Richard asked DJ what Pearman was on him about, DJ answered defending his actions during the play telling Richard "he had his guy covered". Only he used the n-word in reference to his guy to cover. Evidently he made that statement loud enough that Pearman overheard him, and came over still angry about the play. Sounds like to me that Pearman mocked DJ's use of the n-word while letting him know he missed his assignment because the guy for him to block wasn't in the gap DJ filled. Hence the statement, "the n-word wasn't there". That's how I read DJ's explanation. I'm starting to think that Dabo didn't get that story when it happened, and Pearman doesn't apologize over and over back then if he just "asked him not to use the word".

This is just how I read DJ's explanation.
That is exactly how I read it. Not that he was calling Greenlee the N-word, he was mocking him. Saying it just like Greenlee did. Then Pearman realized even that "was a grave error".
 
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When a person makes a mistake there is a process to rectify that situation:

1. Recognize - the issue and your part in the situation and understand the hurt you have caused others
2. Repent - sincerely approach the situation and those you have hurt with a repentant heart
3. Restitution - pay the price that is required to satisfy the nature of your mistake. some go to jail, some go through divorce, some pay a fine, but there is always a price to pay
4. Restoration - once you have paid the price the process of restoration can begin and people don't get to start where they left off. the climb back is always tough but there is a joy in turning that page toward the future and knowing that you have done everything you can to fix what you broke

Leading is never easy so I will not pretend I know the best advice to give the CU leadership or critique how this was managed or handled. But it is evident from Greenlee and his statements that the restitution portion of the process was not evident to all that were impacted and that is a problem.

I think the larger issues we are having in our society are a reflection of our individual approaches to fixing a mistake or issue in our lives. I hope that all involved in the incident are allowed to heal and move on toward a better future, but this situation is heartbreaking. It appears from the outside looking in that the healing hasn't begun yet for everyone involved.

JMHO



The man did not commit a murder. Sanctimony lives on this board today.
 
Change the name of Tillman Hall, who cares. Fire Pearman, who cares. The cops from MN should spend time in jail. All that’s good. But it will never be enough. People are getting called racist for refusing to put a black box on Instagram. White people by the thousands on in their knees in Bethesda reciting propaganda about how horrible they feel about being white. Shaming all white people is deplorable, and that’s what’s happening right now.

They are what you call a pussy who is afraid of social media pressure.
 
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Dude quit telling everyone to provide you with evidence. All the evidence you need is on social media. If you don’t wanna look, that’s fine by me and fine by most of the board I would think.

Continue being part of the problem.


I’ll give you evidence since you get your info on social media. 2018 there were 9 unarmed blacks, killed by white police. 5 attacked the police. Police were arrested in two. That’s it. More police were killed than the total number of all races combined killed by police. Systematic racism is a fallacy. In 43 years, I had as many black bosses as white bosses. Lotof black men and women made way more money than me. So cut the crap. Whatever a Dabo did, I believe it was the right thing.
 
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There is a simple play here.

1. Announce Pearman resignation.
2. Acknowledge the way it was handled was not right. In plain English: apology. It's never too late to apologize.
3. Affirm stance on values and culture of tolerance of all players (which I believe is already the case).

Then the program and fan base can move forward. Go Tigers.
Wrong on so many levels
 
I’ll give you evidence since you get your info on social media. 2018 there were 9 unarmed blacks, killed by white police. 5 attacked the police. Police were arrested in two. That’s it. More police were killed than the total number of all races combined killed by police. Systematic racism is a fallacy. In 43 years, I had as many black bosses as white bosses. Lotof black men and women made way more money than me. So cut the crap. Whatever a Dabo did, I believe it was the right thing.

17 unarmed blacks were killed by police in 2018 according to Washington Post's Fatal Force tracker. 23 if you want to count "toy weapon" as unarmed.

Also, your anecdotes don't prove anything about systemic racism. Systemic racism doesn't mean that all blacks are doing worse than all whites. Or that no blacks are ever in positions of power in any institutions over whites.

Just because a black guy made more money than you one time doesn't mean racism is solved. Sorry to say it's not quite that easy.

--Mr. DT
 
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As usual with most of your posts: how is that possibly your takeaway?
I should probably just ignore somebody childishly making things personal, but where do you think the ideas you cite in your post came from? It’s critical race theory. And what you’re talking about sounds an awful lot like the religious concept of confession.


This is a very long discussion of the religious aspects of critical race theory informed social justice:

https://areomagazine.com/2018/12/18/postmodern-religion-and-the-faith-of-social-justice/


Ritual, Redemption, and Prayer
There are only two effective paths toward redemption in the Social Justice soteriology: one, a commitment to an impossibly complicated set of behaviors that fall under the overlapping but distinct rubrics of allyship and solidarity, and, two, identifying, adopting, and attempting to legitimize one’s own status among intersectionally “oppressed” identities.

These, dare I say, performances serve the purpose of a kind of ritual, and introspection into one’s privilege is offered as the only path toward something resembling redemption...

Solidarity and allyship—which are themselves fraught with problematicsfrom the applied postmodern perspective because of their capacity to recenter the privileged while extracting a divinity resource from oppression—are deemed the necessary response to privilege. “Allies” are what we call relationally privileged brothers and sisters in Social Justice, and solidarity is approximately socioreligious fraternity in the faith. Exercising these includes deferring to oppressed identities and making personal sacrifices to stand “in solidarity” with their claimed agendas. These deferrals and sacrifices are the costly signals that “prove” one’s loyaltyto the moral tribe and its ideology, and they have the psychological effect of increasing one’s commitment to it. This occurs because undertaking this cost must be rationalized, and the rationalizations employed are the moral ones provided by the ideology, usually in some form of “doing the right thing,” “taking a stand against Hate,” or “using one’s privilege to help overcome oppression.”

Much of this is achieved through the act of Social Justice prayer, which primarily takes the form of making woke social media posts—which even Crenshaw has complained about in an applicable way—and attending public rallies ostensibly treated as protests. This will be, no doubt, a controversial claim to have made, so the reader is reminded that this approaches the topic of how religious-like phenomena work on a psychological (and social) level.

Psychologically, prayer serves many functions, and it’s reasonable to conclude that among these is a hope to call upon the numinous forces of the universe to shape human experience for the better. Often, though not always, prayers of this type are presented in the form of blessings—bless this food for the health of our bodies, bless this meeting that it serve not only our purposes but Higher ones, God bless the USA. For the applied postmodernists of Social Justice, the premodern numinous forces are all functionally dead, however. The living gods are societal, and they’re primarily the reification of discourses and narratives (because postmodernism, applied and less so, is ultimately logocentric in believing that language creates society, which creates our total understanding of reality). Among other effects, including virtue signaling and hierarchy jockeying, woke-posting on social media is a way to offer a blessing to the wokeness gods so that discourses might be blessed, problematics and dissenters might be shamed, and society might be improved.

The most overt form this behavior takes is in public rallies, which superficially resemble protests that have lost all of their focus. Rather than protesting specific issues or political concerns, Social Justice adherents increasingly appear to gather together to protest against concepts that are directly derived from the Matrix of Oppression. What, exactly, is a protest against the “right wing,” for example? What are “anti-fascism” rallies? And how are these conducted? For those familiar with the left-leaning protest scene as it has evolved from the early 2000s until now, there has been a distinct devolution of clarity, organization, and focus and increased reliance upon gathering and chanting, as though demonstrating alone can suffice to affect society in a way that effects the protesters’ goals (and, when it doesn’t, that is subsequently taken as proof that society is even more fallen than previously thought and in desperate and urgent need of even more “protests”). These aren’t protests. These are prayer rallies. This is church.
 
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This is the same rationalization, just worded more delicately. Here's a why I'd like to discuss...why are so many white people unwilling to just admit a blatantly obvious truth?

Dude joe is right....you just don’t want to hear it. This problem with police transcends racial lines....it’s not a rationalization it’s a fact. Now, that doesn’t mean I’m denying the problem or saying that systemic racism doesn’t exist, cause I’m not...it doesn’t have to be either or. As Joe said, it may affect African Americans more acutely, but the problem is all encompassing.

My goodness at this thread.
 
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I’ll give you evidence since you get your info on social media. 2018 there were 9 unarmed blacks, killed by white police. 5 attacked the police. Police were arrested in two. That’s it. More police were killed than the total number of all races combined killed by police. Systematic racism is a fallacy. In 43 years, I had as many black bosses as white bosses. Lotof black men and women made way more money than me. So cut the crap. Whatever a Dabo did, I believe it was the right thing.

Just curious - in what line of work and location were you in to make the bolded statement true?
 
WEDNESDAY UPDATE
By: Larry Williams

As you all know, yesterday the news broke that Clemson assistant football coach Danny Pearman used a racial slur while coaching former tight end D.J. Greenlee during a 2017 practice.

Here's what we know on this as of late this morning:

-- When Matt Connolly of The State first reported Greenlee's account of Pearman using the N-word three years ago, Clemson officials set about doing its homework to try to recreate exactly what happened.

-- Then came the statement from Pearman, released by football communications director Ross Taylor, saying Pearman repeated a racial slur initially used by D.J. Greenlee "when trying to stop the word from being used on the practice field."

Thereafter, The State posted an updated story after another conversation between Connolly and D.J. Greenlee. In this story, Greenlee gave a clarified version of events as he recalled them. In this account, Greenlee recited the following practice exchange.

Pearman thought Greenlee missed a block during a rep "and was being a coach at the time and he was just trying to figure out what was going on."

Milan Richard asked Greenlee about the exchange, according to Greenlee.

“(Milan) was asking me what happened? ‘What’s coach getting on to you about?’” Greenlee told The State. “I was just like, ‘Man I got the (n-word) that came in my gap.’ I was talking to my teammate. That was all that was said. Then the next thing you know coach Pearman starts coming over there. He was repeating what I just said. He’s like, ‘(n-word) this, (n-word) that. The (n-word) wasn’t there.’”

While Greenlee pointed out that Pearman wasn't calling him the n-word, the clarified account from Greenlee doesn't seem to match the account Pearman gave in his statement, that he was merely using the word in asking Greenlee not to use the word.

This apparent contradiction is a new layer to the story that Clemson officials are dealing with today. We are told Swinney spoke with D.J. Greenlee multiple times yesterday. D.J.'s father Larry is a longtime strength and conditioning coach with Clemson's football program.

-- One pertinent question is whether Swinney reported this incident to his superiors when it happened. We have not been able to confirm that he did.

-- It is worth noting that Swinney expressly forbids use of the n-word on Clemson's practice fields and inside the football offices.

-- The obvious question now is whether Swinney and/or athletics director Dan Radakovich will issue a statement in light of the new layer to the story and its overall place in the national sports conversation amid the tumult from the George Floyd killing.

-- As of late last night we did not get the impression that Pearman's job was in serious danger. But as we all know, circumstances can change.

One thing we do know for sure: This probably isn't going away anytime soon.

-- We will certainly keep you posted as we know more.

FROM THE TIGER FAN SHOP: Click HERE to check out all of our inventory, plus early summer DEALS on officially-licensed CLEMSON apparel!

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This will probably result in Dabo following Saban at Bama.
 
Has there been any word about Dabo or the administration addressing the issue today or was DJ's response the "response," more or less?
 
There is no rational conversation using a racial slur.
FIFY

Agree 100%. Racism in all directions and in any form is pure ignorance. I cringe any time I see or hear it. Btw, my family is bi-racial.

I don’t condone what DP said and would never have said it. The reaction coming three years later is a “little” over the top and I believe being driven by agendas that are “slightly” less than pure, which was my point.
 
17 unarmed blacks were killed by police in 2018 according to Washington Post's Fatal Force tracker. 23 if you want to count "toy weapon" as unarmed.

Also, your anecdotes don't prove anything about systemic racism. Systemic racism doesn't mean that all blacks are doing worse than all whites. Or that no blacks are ever in positions of power in any institutions over whites.

Just because a black guy made more money than you one time doesn't mean racism is solved. Sorry to say it's not quite that easy.

--Mr. DT


So if something does not fit your narrative it doesn’t count as an argument. Pathetic victim mentality.
 
I DESPISE political correctness.

And it's ok to call Republicans NAZIS, right?
Just wanna be sure I understand.

Geez. People in this country have lost their minds.
 
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I should probably just ignore somebody childishly making things personal, but where do you think the ideas you cite in your post came from? It’s critical race theory. And what you’re talking about sounds an awful lot like the religious concept of confession.


This is a very long discussion of the religious aspects of critical race theory informed social justice:

https://areomagazine.com/2018/12/18/postmodern-religion-and-the-faith-of-social-justice/


Ritual, Redemption, and Prayer
There are only two effective paths toward redemption in the Social Justice soteriology: one, a commitment to an impossibly complicated set of behaviors that fall under the overlapping but distinct rubrics of allyship and solidarity, and, two, identifying, adopting, and attempting to legitimize one’s own status among intersectionally “oppressed” identities.

These, dare I say, performances serve the purpose of a kind of ritual, and introspection into one’s privilege is offered as the only path toward something resembling redemption...

Solidarity and allyship—which are themselves fraught with problematicsfrom the applied postmodern perspective because of their capacity to recenter the privileged while extracting a divinity resource from oppression—are deemed the necessary response to privilege. “Allies” are what we call relationally privileged brothers and sisters in Social Justice, and solidarity is approximately socioreligious fraternity in the faith. Exercising these includes deferring to oppressed identities and making personal sacrifices to stand “in solidarity” with their claimed agendas. These deferrals and sacrifices are the costly signals that “prove” one’s loyaltyto the moral tribe and its ideology, and they have the psychological effect of increasing one’s commitment to it. This occurs because undertaking this cost must be rationalized, and the rationalizations employed are the moral ones provided by the ideology, usually in some form of “doing the right thing,” “taking a stand against Hate,” or “using one’s privilege to help overcome oppression.”

Much of this is achieved through the act of Social Justice prayer, which primarily takes the form of making woke social media posts—which even Crenshaw has complained about in an applicable way—and attending public rallies ostensibly treated as protests. This will be, no doubt, a controversial claim to have made, so the reader is reminded that this approaches the topic of how religious-like phenomena work on a psychological (and social) level.

Psychologically, prayer serves many functions, and it’s reasonable to conclude that among these is a hope to call upon the numinous forces of the universe to shape human experience for the better. Often, though not always, prayers of this type are presented in the form of blessings—bless this food for the health of our bodies, bless this meeting that it serve not only our purposes but Higher ones, God bless the USA. For the applied postmodernists of Social Justice, the premodern numinous forces are all functionally dead, however. The living gods are societal, and they’re primarily the reification of discourses and narratives (because postmodernism, applied and less so, is ultimately logocentric in believing that language creates society, which creates our total understanding of reality). Among other effects, including virtue signaling and hierarchy jockeying, woke-posting on social media is a way to offer a blessing to the wokeness gods so that discourses might be blessed, problematics and dissenters might be shamed, and society might be improved.

The most overt form this behavior takes is in public rallies, which superficially resemble protests that have lost all of their focus. Rather than protesting specific issues or political concerns, Social Justice adherents increasingly appear to gather together to protest against concepts that are directly derived from the Matrix of Oppression. What, exactly, is a protest against the “right wing,” for example? What are “anti-fascism” rallies? And how are these conducted? For those familiar with the left-leaning protest scene as it has evolved from the early 2000s until now, there has been a distinct devolution of clarity, organization, and focus and increased reliance upon gathering and chanting, as though demonstrating alone can suffice to affect society in a way that effects the protesters’ goals (and, when it doesn’t, that is subsequently taken as proof that society is even more fallen than previously thought and in desperate and urgent need of even more “protests”). These aren’t protests. These are prayer rallies. This is church.

I didn't think you could be more pedantic or condescending than usual, and you went and did it. Bravo!
 
So if something does not fit your narrative it doesn’t count as an argument. Pathetic victim mentality.

No. What you seem to be saying is that because there were and have been people that made more money than you or were in positions of "power", then there must not be systemic racism, or it has been eradicated. That kind of argument is a far over-simplification. I definitely believe it happened. I also definitely believe that you are incapable of seeing beyond your own personal circumstance to how others might be treated or are affected by racism.

--Mr. DT
 
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"it's their word?" I realize that's a common mode of thinking but it's ridiculous one IMO. It's nobody's word and nobody should use it.

Understand, I'm not advocating for white people to use it because black people do.....nothing could be further from the truth. I'm advocating for the logic that it's a hurtful, very offensive word, probably the most offensive word I can think of, and it shouldn't be used by anyone of any race. That would make things much more simple than trying to tell one group they can say it and one group that they can't.
 
No. What you seem to be saying is that because there were and have been people that made more money than you or were in positions of "power", then there must not be systemic racism, or it has been eradicated. That kind of argument is a far over-simplification. I definitely believe it happened. I also definitely believe that you are incapable of seeing beyond your own personal circumstance to how others might be treated or are affected by racism.

--Mr. DT
What do you think about this? I actually think McCarthy doesn’t quite get the scope of what “systemic racism” is supposed to be when focused mainly on police violence: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/the-institutional-racism-canard/
 
"it's their word?" I realize that's a common mode of thinking but it's ridiculous one IMO. It's nobody's word and nobody should use it.

Understand, I'm not advocating for white people to use it because black people do.....nothing could be further from the truth. I'm advocating for the logic that it's a hurtful, very offensive word, probably the most offensive word I can think of, and it shouldn't be used by anyone of any race. That would make things much more simple than trying to tell one group they can say it and one group that they can't.
it's really pretty simple right now

If you're white, you can't say it

Pretty simple
 
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What do you think about this? I actually think McCarthy doesn’t quite get the scope of what “systemic racism” is supposed to be when focused mainly on police violence: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/the-institutional-racism-canard/

The most dangerous threat to the African-American community in America is not cops. It is liberals. The United States is not institutionally racist. The political system, the criminal-justice system, and academe overflow with political progressives. The notion that they would tolerate racism in their institutions would be laughable if sensible people were encouraged to think about it rather than mindlessly accept it. Nor could we conceivably be “unconsciously” racist. Let’s put aside that to discriminate is to choose, and that, where it exists, racial discrimination is a conscious state of mind. The reality is that our institutions of opinion are so obsessively racialist, no one in America has the luxury of being unconscious about racism.

I think he's pretty frothing at the mouth throughout the whole thing. And this penultimate paragraph that is supposed to somehow be the A-Ha moment! is ridiculous. The US is not institutionally racist because "the political system, criminal justice system and academe overflow with progressives". What kind of a non fact-based argument is this?

Also, it seems we can't be "unconsciously" racist according to him because media pushes the racist narrative at every turn. Really? Because it seems to me like white America has been pushing back pretty hard at everything that suggests there is racism in America, up to and including electing a president who is supported by actual white nationalist groups. If that doesn't indicate some sort of underlying racial issue, I don't know what does.

However, none of that really addresses "systemic racism."

Personally, I believe that poverty is the biggest factor, and 20% of blacks are in poverty while only 8% of whites are. Start fixing that, and you can start fixing a lot.

--Mr. DT
 
The most dangerous threat to the African-American community in America is not cops. It is liberals. The United States is not institutionally racist. The political system, the criminal-justice system, and academe overflow with political progressives. The notion that they would tolerate racism in their institutions would be laughable if sensible people were encouraged to think about it rather than mindlessly accept it. Nor could we conceivably be “unconsciously” racist. Let’s put aside that to discriminate is to choose, and that, where it exists, racial discrimination is a conscious state of mind. The reality is that our institutions of opinion are so obsessively racialist, no one in America has the luxury of being unconscious about racism.

I think he's pretty frothing at the mouth throughout the whole thing. And this penultimate paragraph that is supposed to somehow be the A-Ha moment! is ridiculous. The US is not institutionally racist because "the political system, criminal justice system and academe overflow with progressives". What kind of a non fact-based argument is this?

Also, it seems we can't be "unconsciously" racist according to him because media pushes the racist narrative at every turn. Really? Because it seems to me like white America has been pushing back pretty hard at everything that suggests there is racism in America, up to and including electing a president who is supported by actual white nationalist groups. If that doesn't indicate some sort of underlying racial issue, I don't know what does.

However, none of that really addresses "systemic racism."

Personally, I believe that poverty is the biggest factor, and 20% of blacks are in poverty while only 8% of whites are. Start fixing that, and you can start fixing a lot.

--Mr. DT
I mostly agree here, although I think you're over-interpreting elections and giving too much credence to the pseudo-scientific concept of "unconscious bias." What I think is wrong is attributing any difference in group outcome to "systemic racism," at least when it comes to our current "system."
 
People use lots of words that shouldn't be used . I see it in this forum. People use the F word usually they *** but still it's still hateful and offensive. People say the R word which is also offensive.

hateful language should never be used I really don't think there's a place for any of it under any circumstance or context.

is it something that should be correct and not tolerated ? Absolutely.

Is it something that we should absolutely fire people and condemn people for ? No I think everyone deserves an opportunity to correct their mistakes unless it's a violent act or truly hateful act. A pattern of this behavior should absolutely be punitive.
 
People use lots of words that shouldn't be used . I see it in this forum. People use the F word usually they *** but still it's still hateful and offensive. People say the R word which is also offensive.

hateful language should never be used I really don't think there's a place for any of it under any circumstance or context.

is it something that should be correct and not tolerated ? Absolutely.

Is it something that we should absolutely fire people and condemn people for ? No I think everyone deserves an opportunity to correct their mistakes unless it's a violent act or truly hateful act. A pattern of this behavior should absolutely be punitive.

What's the r word?
 
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