Why Bernie Rules:)
- Thread starter appalachiatiger
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i understand that you, like so many in this thread, have a really really hard time seeing past your own incredibly limited set of experiences.
Please enlighten us poor souls on your experiences then. When i first started reading your posts i thought you may actually know something, as i have read more i see that all you know how to do is talk out your ass and post statistics than dont do anything to shed light on the nasty underbelly of this country.
It's inarguable, you are right. This seems as self evident as any economic truth or principle I have studied.
Minimum wage is devastating "those of lower socioeconomic statuses" but you're clearly driven by emotion and not searching for the truth.
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the term "tampon tax" is a figure of speech. It is not a literal tax on just tampons. It the phrase that has been coined by advocates who say that women pay more for basically the same health care/personal products as men. As one example, it is pretty standard that women pay more for shampoo than men. More for razor blades, lotions, etc etc.
The term "tampon tax" is not actually about sales tax. It is about inequality in the cost of the same health care products.
And yes, there is legislation being introduced that would eliminate sales tax on feminine hygiene products. The argument is that those are a health necessity, and should not be taxed. And that is probably correct.
you are right, your personal experiences are probably more indicative of the "nasty underbelly of this country" than nationwide statistics might be. and you, based on your personal experience, have decided that most poor people are dumb and lazy.
like I said, you, like so many others ITT, are incapable of seeing 5 ft past your own incredibly limited set of experiences.
I would say that is 100% correct, especially the lazy part. Not all, but yes most.
In all seriousness, how many hard working, smart poor people are there? As a percentage?
McDonald's Can't Figure Out How Its Workers Survive on Minimum Wage
Well this is both embarrassing and deeply telling.
In what appears to have been a gesture of goodwill gone haywire, McDonald's recently teamed up with Visa to create a financial planning site for its low-pay workforce. Unfortunately, whoever wrote the thing seems to have been literally incapable of imagining of how a fast food employee could survive on a minimum wage income. As ThinkProgress and other outlets have reported, the site includes a sample budget that, among other laughable assumptions, presumes that workers will have a second job.
As Jim Cook at Irregular Times notes, the $1,105 figure up top is roughly what the average McDonald's cashier earning $7.72 an hour would take home each month after payroll taxes, if they worked 40 hours a week. So this budget applies to someone just about working two full-time jobs at normal fast-food pay. (The federal minimum wage is just $7.25 an hour, by the way, but 19 states and DC set theirs higher).
A few of the other ridiculous conceits here: This hypothetical worker doesn't pay a heating bill. I guess some utilities are included in their $600 a month rent? (At the end of 2012, average rent in the U.S. was $1,048). Gas and groceries are bundled into $27 a day spending money. And this individual apparently has access to $20 a month healthcare. McDonald's, for its part, charges employees $12.58 a week for the company's most basic health plan. Well, that's if they've been with the company for a year. Otherwise, it's $14.
Now, it's possible that McDonald's and Visa meant this sample budget to reflect a two-person household. That would be a tad more realistic, after all. Unfortunately, the brochure doesn't give any indication that's the case. Nor does it change the fact that most of these expenses would apply to a single person.
Of course, minimum wage workers aren't really entirely on their own, especially if they have children. There are programs like food stamps, Medicaid, and the earned income tax credit to help them along. But that's sort of the point. When large companies make profits by paying their workers unlivable wages, we end up subsidizing their bottom lines.
Stop taking what i said out of context. We are speaking on the types of ppl that work in places like fast food and other dead end jobs in their later years and then bitch about pay. And like i said please tell us of your childhood. Where were you raised? What was your parents financial situation? How much time have you spent in the poor neighborhoods where drugs and crime are around every corner? Are do you sit behind a computer screen and swear you knoww all this countries problems because you studied about it? Unless you have spent time living in these conditions, you trying to tell me what its like is about the same as you trying to tell me what wars like because you watched "Band of Brothers".
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I have never understood the stupidity of the minimum wage. It is purely a political ploy to get votes. Think about it a second... You raise the guy at the bottom, so what does the guy who just worked his way up and got a raise going to do....demand more money. Then the individual above wants and deserves more money, etc, etc,etc. So the whole thing is a farce, because in the long run the guy at the bottom will still be at the bottom and will not be able to "raise a family". I think someone once said " we will always have the poor". Of course, as someone mentioned, at some point machine will take the bottom guys job.
Your station in life is some blend of ability, effort, circumstance and luck. Sure, "privilege" falls into the circumstance category. Get over it and control the variables that you can - predominately effort.
And yet I start construction laborers at $12 an hour and have a hell of a time finding anyone willing to work, show up on time and leave their phone in the car. Out of the last 10 we hired we might have two still on the payroll. People making low income wages want a paycheck not a job. We have Hispanics that can't speak English making $20/hr with benefits because they're hard working and care about what they do.
I don't know that I've seen a non-Hispanic person on my construction site yet and so far the work has been excellent. At the end of the day, people want the best blend of quality and affordability. Minimum wage complainers can do themselves a favor by pulling the quality lever.
ok I'll chime in, this thread now becoming epic. I'm white, got into Clemson. parents middle class. helped some with tuition, co-oped to make up the difference. was an IE major, not the best grades in the world because of other 'choices' I made while learning how to grow up. this is code for 'yeah I partied alot and chose running a fraternity over trying to get a 3.5 GPA'
Move on to graduation, I made it to the finish line, but by the short hairs. have friends who helped me to ensure I got the shit done. without these wonderful friends, I'm not getting out. struggled to find that first job but by god I found it. Low rent job at a software company for 22.5 a year. 22.5. man, that's pretty shameful for an engineer type. dad was ChemE from Clemson, this wasn't exactly a success story. I felt like a total loser.
so back to the first job. what the hell software? this was 1994, the dawn of the tech age. I didn't know jackshit about anything. most of my friends and classmates were pulling offers for 2.5x my little shithouse wage. it was the only thing I could find. I was embarassed, shamed and depressed that I busted my ass to earn a Clemson Engineering degree, and this is what I have to show for it. well, I said, you have to start somewhere right?
so I toughed it out doing absolute shit work performing maintenance inventories and populating databases. this is code for 'data entry' in the mean time, my friends have jobs at BMW and BoA.
Let's skip over a few decades and let's just say I found my calling in enterprise software sales as a Tech Sales Engineer. the road to get there was not easy but I love my job. I also love the fact that I make 2-3x what our GT engineer dudes working at my firm. those guys are in implementation hell, I'm on the front lines producing the front line revenue. it's not easy by any means, but choosing the sales route was a natural fit for me. the GT people love to run their mouths about how they are superior within the engineering ranks. I usually respond with, "well somebody has to sell it"
I'll post chapter 2 later on for those who are interested.
Move on to graduation, I made it to the finish line, but by the short hairs. have friends who helped me to ensure I got the shit done. without these wonderful friends, I'm not getting out. struggled to find that first job but by god I found it. Low rent job at a software company for 22.5 a year. 22.5. man, that's pretty shameful for an engineer type. dad was ChemE from Clemson, this wasn't exactly a success story. I felt like a total loser.
so back to the first job. what the hell software? this was 1994, the dawn of the tech age. I didn't know jackshit about anything. most of my friends and classmates were pulling offers for 2.5x my little shithouse wage. it was the only thing I could find. I was embarassed, shamed and depressed that I busted my ass to earn a Clemson Engineering degree, and this is what I have to show for it. well, I said, you have to start somewhere right?
so I toughed it out doing absolute shit work performing maintenance inventories and populating databases. this is code for 'data entry' in the mean time, my friends have jobs at BMW and BoA.
Let's skip over a few decades and let's just say I found my calling in enterprise software sales as a Tech Sales Engineer. the road to get there was not easy but I love my job. I also love the fact that I make 2-3x what our GT engineer dudes working at my firm. those guys are in implementation hell, I'm on the front lines producing the front line revenue. it's not easy by any means, but choosing the sales route was a natural fit for me. the GT people love to run their mouths about how they are superior within the engineering ranks. I usually respond with, "well somebody has to sell it"
I'll post chapter 2 later on for those who are interested.
This whole article is preposterous. Nobody HAS to make a living working at McDonalds. Some may try out of ignorance, laziness, foolish lifestyle choices etc. We have a perfect formula for avoiding poverty in the USA and it works 99 % of the time. 1) Finish High School (it's free in all 50 states) 2) Don't have children until you are married 3) Get a job (there are lot's of them available that are WAY better than working at McD's) In Upstate SC you can make 15.00 an hour cleaning houses or mowing lawns and raking leaves) 4) Stay married...you WILL NOT be poor in these United States if you do these simple doable things in life. Get a real cause dude.McDonald's Can't Figure Out How Its Workers Survive on Minimum Wage
Well this is both embarrassing and deeply telling.
In what appears to have been a gesture of goodwill gone haywire, McDonald's recently teamed up with Visa to create a financial planning site for its low-pay workforce. Unfortunately, whoever wrote the thing seems to have been literally incapable of imagining of how a fast food employee could survive on a minimum wage income. As ThinkProgress and other outlets have reported, the site includes a sample budget that, among other laughable assumptions, presumes that workers will have a second job.
As Jim Cook at Irregular Times notes, the $1,105 figure up top is roughly what the average McDonald's cashier earning $7.72 an hour would take home each month after payroll taxes, if they worked 40 hours a week. So this budget applies to someone just about working two full-time jobs at normal fast-food pay. (The federal minimum wage is just $7.25 an hour, by the way, but 19 states and DC set theirs higher).
A few of the other ridiculous conceits here: This hypothetical worker doesn't pay a heating bill. I guess some utilities are included in their $600 a month rent? (At the end of 2012, average rent in the U.S. was $1,048). Gas and groceries are bundled into $27 a day spending money. And this individual apparently has access to $20 a month healthcare. McDonald's, for its part, charges employees $12.58 a week for the company's most basic health plan. Well, that's if they've been with the company for a year. Otherwise, it's $14.
Now, it's possible that McDonald's and Visa meant this sample budget to reflect a two-person household. That would be a tad more realistic, after all. Unfortunately, the brochure doesn't give any indication that's the case. Nor does it change the fact that most of these expenses would apply to a single person.
Of course, minimum wage workers aren't really entirely on their own, especially if they have children. There are programs like food stamps, Medicaid, and the earned income tax credit to help them along. But that's sort of the point. When large companies make profits by paying their workers unlivable wages, we end up subsidizing their bottom lines.
Why do you think this is? Could it possibly be that many of these employers and property management companies know how certain socioeconomic classes or large percentages of certain races behave? In my line of work, I see many people's living situation. And for the most part, minorities don't treat their places with as much respect and care. Just because you don't have money, you don't also have to be lazy and messy. And yes, a huge percentage of poor whites treat their places like crap too.
"Black defendants are at least 30 percent more likely to be imprisoned than white defendants for the same crime."
------could this be because that 30% are on their second, third or fourth crime?
Look dude. I understand why you feel the way you do but I don't think it's helpful to blame the system. I would say I was probably lower middle class growing up. If I didn't bust my ass, my parents didn't have enough money for my college. So guess what, they (because I had 2) taught me to have a work ethic. I cut lawn, raked leaves and shoveled snow before I could get a job. When I turned 16, I had a job throughout the school year and played multiple sports. I also busted my ass and had 2 Bs (the rest As) all throughout HS and finished third in my class. My parent's money had nothing to do with that. Where I lived had nothing to do with that. That was me not being a lazy waste of space.
Every person in my school had those same opportunities. Some just chose to sit in class with headphones on and drum books with pencils.
After I graduated college with a degree in biochemistry (graduated cum laude) I was planning on med school. But I got married and subsequently divorced and I was wait listed for school. Not that it mattered because the divorce financially crippled me and I would have never been able to afford my bills while in school. I wasn't making enough in my field with just a bachelors. So I got my EMT to make a school application more appealing. But I still wasn't making enough. So I went to get my paramedic. While in school, I was working 70-80 hours a week and going to class for 5-6 hours 2-3 days a week, doing clinicals and ride alongs with EMS. I was sleeping probably 10-15 hours a week at best and had no life.
I didn't know where my next meal was coming from many days because of my money situation. I made too much for assistance but my debt was too high to put that money to use, and the government doesn't take debt into consideration. But I would have never taken help anyways, because that's just not who I am. But I got through it, and still worked 70-80 hours to pay off my debt. 5 years later, my debt is almost gone even though I had a beautiful money sucking baby girl. I did find a a beautiful wife that works as hard as I do. My health insurance cost was $1000/month for three of us, so I got a better paying job with benefits because of hard work. And guess what, I'm back in school again to better myself.
When I walked into a hospital as a paramedic, I would get upset when I saw a doctor. I didn't get mad at the doctor, I didn't blame anybody but myself. I got pissed at myself for not making better decisions. I got discouraged at times over working so hard to see it all go down the drain, but I beat those feelings back with hard work.
The problem isn't the system, it's cultural. The system is broken yet, but the ambition for millions of Americans is. People see their useless parents blame the system and so they then grow up blaming the system. But in reality, that is the parents fault. You don't have to have money and a nice house to teach a child good values. Look up the American Dream.... "The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (Democracy, Rights, Liberty, Opportunity, and Equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, and an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few barriers."
Notice the word OPPORTUNITY and ACHIEVED THROUGH HARD WORK. Nowhere does it say it should be just given to people. There are several programs out there to assist minorities and financially less fortunate people. But instead of taking advantage of them in the right way, they are taking advantage in the wrong way. And that includes taking advantage of every tax paying American, including yourself.
How about instead of blaming the system, hold your kids accountable. Don't just roll over and let everyone more fortunate take care of you. Don't eat yourself into obesity to the point you can't even walk. Teach your daughters to respect themselves and their bodies so they arent just giving it up to trash and popping out three babies before 20. Show your kids the value of hard work. Blaming someone else will leave people in the same crappy situation and will further divide this country from both a socioeconomic and racial standpoint. Don't worry about making America great again, worry about making yourself great and the rest will work itself out.
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So, you think that raising the minimum wage, or paying people more, would solve the problem? You're wrong.
You, and others who think poverty is a vicious cycle, are correct about that. It is a cycle. But you don't stop that cycle and solve the problem by just handing those people more money. That will not teach them anything. It will not teach them how to make good choices. Take professional athletes for instance. These people basically won the DNA lottery, and they use it to make millions playing a game...and then they go broke shortly after retiring. If these people had made better choices, not only would they have been set for life, their families would have been set for generations to come.
No, more money is not the answer. Both parents are the answer, more education is the answer, more responsibility is the answer, more accountability is the answer.
Not to mention that if you raise minimum wage these companies arnt just going to take the loss. No, this will fall on the consumer. We will pay for the raises by paying more for the products. By time it is all said and done these people will make more money but still be just as poor because the cost of living will also go up. The only difference is that middle-class people like me will now be closer to poverty because our pay will not go up. The only way the cost of living dont go up is if people are just let go. Then middle class people like me will be closer to poverty by paying the taxes to support the unenployed. Or if taxes dont go up our streets will continue to fall apart under our wheels because the money is going to support the unemployed. What does it matter though, our all knwing leaders will just print more money to take care of the problems. That will fix it all!
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Can you really blame the HR people if they don't want to call people with names like Kadetrix, Shaquanda, or something they can't even figure out how to pronounce? Nope, sure can't.
Again, naming your kid is an important life decision. You shouldn't name your daughter Candy unless you want her to be a stripper, porn star, or prostitute. And who would really want that for their daughter?
Poverty is the result of poor decisions. Period.
i didnt say anything about the minimum wage. a national $15 minimum wage is not something I agree with. Should it be $15 in LA? absolutely. In rural kentucky? nope.
@iceheart08 you still havnt answered my questions. I will go as far as to say i agree your statistics are very important. They only tell half of the story though. So im asking you, since my experiences arnt good enough to tell the rest of it, what about your experiences make you qualified to tell us what is what?
the rational people on my side of the aisle agree with this. and I also agree, people should work hard and control the variables that they can. The notion that working hard and "controlling the variables" that they can will automatically lead a person out of poverty and into a better station in life is the part that forms the basis of the disagreement in this thread.
i also never once said MY experiences (though I did grow up in Washington DC and attend public school my entire life, while playing multiple varsity sports) gave me insight into the causes of or solutions for poverty. What I did say was that im capable of understanding that my personal experiences have almost no bearing on the greater reality, from which we can make policy prescriptions. I can and do attempt to understand by reading other's perspectives, studies, articles, stories, and books on the topic.
No you choose to believe what you want to believe. Have you even once spent a night in a neighborhood so stricken with poverty that you hear gunshots all night? Have you ever seen first hand how bad things get in these neighborhoods? Most of the people you choose to follow and quote havnt either. They stand from a distance and claim they know whats going on just like you do. These same people would recoil and balk at the idea of actually spending time with these people and living in these areas to find an answer.
You went to public school. Holy shit that had to be terrible for someone like you. Im sure just going to these schools more than prepared you to tell ppl like me what i need to know.
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you asked me a question, i gave you an honest answer, and your response is "no"?
i can answer yes to both of those questions. im not going to sit here and explain my circumstances to you. and i never claimed to know "whats going on". I did say that not all poor people (or the incredibly specific subset of poor people who work for a living as you described above) are dumb and lazy. its embarrassing that you are still arguing this.
You do claim to know whats going on by telling so many of us on here how wrong we are.n And no you didnt answer a thing. You simply said you went to a public school. So what, i knew 2 doctors sons that also went to public school with me. That didnt prepare them to talk about how life in poverty or what the majority of ppl living in trailer parks were like either.
I will be here if/when you want to tell me why you know more about what life in poverty is like than i do if you every feel the need to. Good night Ice.
Also why feel the need to throw in "I played multiple varsity sports"?
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LOL, I'm not racist. Actually, I think everyone is racist to a degree, it's just basic human nature to associate oneself with other people of the same race, but I'm less racist than you.
If I'm a business owner, or a HR manager, I'm not calling any Billy-Bob's or Tiffany-Jo's either, but the article that was referenced didn't mention anything about dumbass, redneck names.
Lol. One of the smartest persons I know is named Candy. Short for Candice. I guess the Biffs, Blanes, and Buffy's are really screwed.
If you are southern, you likely have someone pretty successful in your family with a "weird" name or nickname.
Nicknames are one thing...what's on your birth certificate, or what you would write on a job application are another.
Lol. You're a fool. Have you seen some of the "traditional" southern names? I have a plethora of family members with old southern names that would be considered "African American" names today, and, yes, go by even crazier nicknames.
But, people go by names like Candy, Vi, Sister, Whitey, etc, and they are not strippers, dipshits, etc.
Look them up. Go on ancestry.com or look up old names. I know in my family we have some crazy names. Thing is, I know a lot of young people passing these same names now. Heck, look of the names of kids who live south of Broad St in Charleston.
Definitely some weird names, I'm not gonna lie. But not a single "Q" in any of them, unless it starts with "Q".
Where did the "Q" name come from? Either way, cannot really blame someone for the name they were given. And, let's get real, if you are hiring for a high end job you really are not looking at a name but their guts; or you should be.
i think if someone names their kid some name thats not anglo or saxon in origin then they should start in poverty
privilege is only for white people
privilege is only for white people
