Atlanta has a problem...

[CU Alumnus]

Is it bad that part of me is thinking, with regards to Atlanta, "fvck it, let it burn"?

That's really bad, isn't it?

Honestly I think I'm just so sick of all of the negativity and doom and gloom.

 

[hopefultiger13]

I am not necessarily going to disagree with you but am going to add a caveat - cops are called upon to not only protect themselves but the public at large.

Here is a situation - a bad guy with a violent record is believed to have a gun (based on a 911 call) but runs away from the cop after being ordered to stop. He is running away and is not threatening the officer. But he then runs towards a school. There is no way to get ahead of him to secure the school but you have a shot. This is a situation where things could get really, really bad in a hurry. What does the cop do? Does he shoot the bad guy and protect the school, or risk a potential - but not guaranteed - really bad situation.

What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO???? (sorry, movie reference)

If you don't shoot - what do you tell the parents of the kids he kills if he is indeed armed and dangerous?
If you do shoot - what happens if you find he is unarmed?

Years ago something like this happened in Orangeburg County. Order came from the sherriff that if he went towards that school, "put him down." Whatever that meant, that meant.

BG in that case was arrested.

This is indeed a worst-case scenario. But it is plausible.

Ideally you set things up to prevent this scenario but it could still happen.

Good points. I'd like to even add something to that. Cops have to deal with the worst people in society. They have the right to go home to their families every day. And they need to do what they need to do, to make that happen. I'm all about the police using chokeholds to win fights I'm NOT ok with them using choke holds on guys in handcuffs.. Another point is, that we all make mistakes. When I make a mistake, I just rewrite the code and I'm back in business. When police make mistakes people can and do die. But policemen are human too... and they are going to make mistakes. I totally get that.

In your case above.. IMHO the officer absolutely can not shoot the man and it's not even close. The man MAY have a gun or he may not, the officer can not use deadly force on a maybe (I'm down with tazing him). If the man pulled the gun then that's a whole different story. In that case the man has shown that he is willing to use deadly force himself.

If you don't shoot/do shoot- You followed procedure.. that's a crap reason to give parents, but there you are. That's the reason you have procedure in the 1st place. So that you KNOW what to do when the shit hits the fan b/c you are NOT going to make a better decision in that split second.

Again, I'm generally very supportive of police officers, but they need to stop killing unarmed, unresisting black men. That HAS to stop, period.

 

[Goodthinkful]

I want to add something - can we somehow add some accountability for people who call 911 for a "man with a gun" when there is no gun present? Calling in an assault when all that happened was the guy was pissed you didn't have your damn dog leashed? It won't be perfect because these calls aren't the easiest to track but it might help.

Perhaps a great study would be how these questionable police actions are actually reported to 911?

If you’re referring to the Central Park video from a few weeks ago, the woman called 911 over an “African-American man” who “threatened” her. No mention of a gun. In the man’s Facebook post, he admitted that he told her “I do what I want and you won’t like it” after she told him to leave her dog alone. Both sides overreacted in that situation. The media really over-reacted.

 

[CU Alumnus]

In your case above.. IMHO the officer absolutely can not shoot the man and it's not even close. The man MAY have a gun or he may not, the officer can not use deadly force on a maybe (I'm down with tazing him). If the man pulled the gun then that's a whole different story. In that case the man has shown that he is willing to use deadly force himself.

Okay - let's expound on that. During the course of chasing the guy he reaches into his coat and is pulling out....something. Could be a gun, could be a phone. Now what? Remember - you have reason to believe he is armed. Was that a reliable call or was it Karen? You guess wrong, you die or go to jail. Now what?

Tasing doesn't always work, has a limited range, and can kill. Tazers are considered a deadly weapon in Georgia.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bernard-kerik-atlanta-da-rayshard-brooks-case

(I've also seen that other places).

That said the Taser is a good option to have. What I have seen is if you have two officers, one uses the Taser and the second covers with his handgun. Maybe. I don't know enough to know if that is always viable.

That guy may be guilty as hell and may be a skinhead with a Nazi flag in his garage. But the GBI has NOT completed their investigation yet. That's the rub.

If you don't shoot/do shoot- You followed procedure.. that's a crap reason to give parents, but there you are. That's the reason you have procedure in the 1st place. So that you KNOW what to do when the shit hits the fan b/c you are NOT going to make a better decision in that split second.

Yep - and now the same politicians who bitched about the accidental shooting last week are now going to skewer your ass for not shooting. That's a big problem. Then they'll just fvck it up anyway. Remember the resource officer from the school in Florida with the shooter? They had to rehire him. Fired him without proper procedure.

Following procedure is the right call, but if procedure runs afoul of what is in the interest of the political winds, you could be screwed.

I think we should try to unify Police procedures across the board as much as possible.

Why in the hell would anyone be a cop anymore?

Again, I'm generally very supportive of police officers, but they need to stop killing unarmed, unresisting black men. That HAS to stop, period.

Agreed. But we can't just say stop doing it. We need to get to the actual root cause and fix it. Even though we may not like what we find.

 

[CU Alumnus]

If you’re referring to the Central Park video from a few weeks ago, the woman called 911 over an “African-American man” who “threatened” her. No mention of a gun. In the man’s Facebook post, he admitted that he told her “I do what I want and you won’t like it” after she told him to leave her dog alone. Both sides overreacted in that situation. The media really over-reacted.

I used that as part of my scenario. It was admittedly a worst-case scenario that most cops will never face. But it could happen.

But in that case, there were overreactions all over the place. His phrasing "I may do something you won't like" or whatever, could definitely be considered a threat even though I don't know that he meant it that way.

"African American Man" could have just been a description of the man. Dunno.

But the damn dog should have been on a leash.

 

[purenonsense]

I know a lot of people tha are better off now than under Obama bush or Clinton.

I know many (who own and operated businesses) that say trumps been the best president for business since Reagan.

so there is that.

if you work for the taxpayers, or get a free money from the taxpayers, im sure trump hasn't done anything for you.

take it from a guy who has 35 years in his 401k and is still working. Clinton was awesome. Took the GW Bush recession and deficit on the chin walking in and turned it into an awesome economic time. Hard to beat Clinton, Greenspan, and Rubin. What a team. Probably the best threesome in us history. W Bush years? My 401k was like watching grass grow. Obama years were awesome for the 401k. More overall growth in eight years than ever before for me. And pretty steady,too. The graphs show that. The reason why you feel like you have much more money now is that you had more to start off with. Trump first year was good. Second year mostly flat. Third year a grand slam. And now in the hole for this year. Obama market beats him out to this point. He is not the economic guru people that he makes himself out to be.

 

[appalachiatiger]

take it from a guy who has 35 years in his 401k and is still working. Clinton was awesome. Took the GW Bush recession and deficit on the chin walking in and turned it into an awesome economic time. Hard to beat Clinton, Greenspan, and Rubin. What a team. Probably the best threesome in us history. W Bush years? My 401k was like watching grass grow. Obama years were awesome for the 401k. More overall growth in eight years than ever before for me. And pretty steady,too. The graphs show that. The reason why you feel like you have much more money now is that you had more to start off with. Trump first year was good. Second year mostly flat. Third year a grand slam. And now in the hole for this year. Obama market beats him out to this point. He is not the economic guru people that he makes himself out to be.

clinton got lucky with the dot com boom

any president would have looked good then.

greenspan did a great job.

I think Clinton econ team did a good job. reich was not all that bad.

 

[tigergrad03]

I apologize as I had you confused with another poster who said he is proud of all his weapons as he listed them all. But he also made the same type of reference as to what's coming so that is where I where I made my mistake.

Good deal. No worries

 

[CUTiger1977]

 

[tigergrad03]

Here are the problems:

No knock warrants - unless there is credible evidence that someone inside the dwelling is in immediate danger, I am absolutely okay with eliminating these. It should be noted that Waco started with essentially a no-knock warrant (by a no-brains agency).

Chokeholds - Completely good with that (eliminating them) if a suspect is in custody and secured (cuffed). Standard policy should be - and it usually is - to get them down, get them cuffed, and get them on their feet (as long as there isn't an injury preventing that). In a fight, not sure.

More hand-to-hand combat training - Good except police are already limited in what they can do in a fight. I don't know how these rules slide based on situation but I think there are already restrictions. It's based on not injuring the suspect. As long as the officers have the numerical advantage this is probably fine. That said, I don't like two average-sized officers' chances against someone the size of Dexter Lawrence. Point being this is probably complicated, but more training is always better. So okay.

Liability protection - I don't like the idea that a cop can be sued for doing his job. Probably do the protection in the form of insurance provided by the municipality that employs the cop.

Murder charges for any officer who kills another human in custody - will have to be based on preponderance of the evidence. Cannot make that carte blanche. What if the suspect has a gun they snuck in somehow? So this cannot be automatic.

Elimination of 12 hour shifts - Sounds good to me

More funding - actually I would do something like the Albaqueque (sp?) plan and look into a different department for calls that are not actual law breakers. Homeless, animal control, mental health, non-violent drug offenses, all the other weird shit that officers can get into - move that to another department. Give them badges and guns if needed (along with the requisite training) but make them a separate department all the way up to the Mayor or City Council. This adds accountability too, since one fear some cops have is that their life may depend on the actions of another cop. So if they 'rat out' another cop..........

The idea is to move the focus away from the stupid crap and back into protecting the people from, well, honest-to-god bad guys.

Add - resource officers are for threats to the safety of students. That's it. They are not to discipline students for stupid crap. That is on the administration.

The no knock warrant thing is a MASSIVE PROBLEM! This should never be allowed to happen. They have many other ways of dealing with situations. Nearly every case I’ve read about results in the death of people, many of whom were innocent and a lot of times it’s not even the right location. People should have been protesting this decades ago. There is a really good book out there about this. I have it in my library but can’t recall the name at the moment. It’s without question a direct violation of multiple Constitutional Rights. In many cases it’s outright murder. See the one with the black couple in Kentucky. Wrong home 10 miles from where they intended to be. Shot the lady to death from outside her home 7 times and arrested the man for attempted murder for defending his home.

 

[appalachiatiger]

while we are at it

we need to make sure there is representation for the person the warrant is pulled on in the fisa court also.

 

[CU Alumnus]

The no knock warrant thing is a MASSIVE PROBLEM! This should never be allowed to happen. They have many other ways of dealing with situations. Nearly every case I’ve read about results in the death of people, many of whom were innocent and a lot of times it’s not even the right location. People should have been protesting this decades ago. There is a really good book out there about this. I have it in my library but can’t recall the name at the moment. It’s without question a direct violation of multiple Constitutional Rights. In many cases it’s outright murder. See the one with the black couple in Kentucky. Wrong home 10 miles from where they intended to be. Shot the lady to death from outside her home 7 times and arrested the man for attempted murder for defending his home.

Only exception I can possibly think of is when someone is in absolute immediate risk - maybe a kidnapped child or something where you have to get them secured ASAP (kidnapped child or something?). That is probably more movie than real life. Even then, you could probably at least yell "POLICE WITH A WARRANT!" right before entry or something at a minimum.

But outside of that kind of thing, I agree 100%.

 

[appalachiatiger]

Only exception I can think of is when someone is in immediate risk - maybe a kidnapped child or something where you have to get them secured ASAP (kidnapped child or something?). That is probably more movie than real life.

But outside of that kind of thing, I agree 100%.

how was no knock warrants even legal to begin with?

that just makes no sense

I do remember we may have went overboard from 9-11

maybe its from then

 

[CU Alumnus]

It gets worse. GBI just put out a tweet that they were not consulted about the charges before they were filed and saying that despite this, they will complete 'an impartial and thorough investigation of the incident and will submit the file, once completed, to the Fulton County District Attorney's Office.'

Ouch. You can kinda tell they are pissed.

 

[appalachiatiger]

hot lanta ====

tonite is gonna be fun with multiple zones down multiple officers.

im glad to see the police stand up for themselves

 

[appalachiatiger]

 

[Goin Coastal]

back to police reform;

so we want

-end no knock warrants

-end chokeholds for sure when in custody, still up in air during a fight

-officers standing by must intercede if they see an officer doing something wrong

-more hand to hand combat training

-liability protection for any death during a resisting arrest situation.

-murder charges for any officer who kills another human in custody.

-elimination of 12 hour shifts.

-more funding for more officers and equipment to handle looters and rioters

what else?

People. We need a person that is willing to do that job. There aren’t any at the moment

 

[appalachiatiger]

im curious about black women

how many black women have cops killed compared to poor white men?

 

[scartiger]

From a black Georgia sheriff



https://fxn.ws/2NgSVud

 

[tigergrad03]

Isn’t it amazing outside of Atlanta they stay clear of the south as far as vandalism, riots, looting and burning down buildings.

They wouldn’t last 15 minutes

 

[appalachiatiger]

Isn’t it amazing outside of Atlanta they stay clear of the south as far as vandalism, riots, looting and burning down buildings.

They wouldn’t last 15 minutes

capitalism v communism

seems those who live in cities are favoring communism

we have got to clean up our colleges and get rid of these communist

come on barr.

I know they are already removing the Chinese spies. haven't seen any Russian spies busted yet.

Trump is only busted the Chinese not the Russians. hmmm. I know biden is pissed. leave china alone. ive invested a lot in china. lol

 

[tigergrad03]

capitalism v communism

seems those who live in cities are favoring communism

we have got to clean up our colleges and get rid of these communist

come on barr.

I know they are already removing the Chinese spies. haven't seen any Russian spies busted yet.

Trump is only busted the Chinese not the Russians. hmmm. I know biden is pissed. leave china alone. ive invested a lot in china. lol

Completely agree. The universities are breeding grounds for these bastards. The Russians are just better at it I think but we likely already know who they are. Maybe Trump is dealing with one group at a time. If I had not went to college when I did I would never have went. Because they would have kicked my ass out pretty quickly once I came across one of these liberal / communist “professors”

 

[appalachiatiger]

Completely agree. The universities are breeding grounds for these bastards. The Russians are just better at it I think but we likely already know who they are. Maybe Trump is dealing with one group at a time. If I had not went to college when I did I would never have went. Because they would have kicked my ass out pretty quickly once I came across one of these liberal / communist “professors”

I fought commie professors on a daily basis in the 90s.

but they fooled a lot of kids.

looks like google wants to defund the police.

wonder what other software is out there.

time to boycott google

and we need to start boycotting products advertised in nytimes, nbc, abc, cnn, MSNBC, Washington post, cbs

and pull stocks from any company that supports the far left.

 

[tigergrad03]

I fought commie professors on a daily basis in the 90s.

but they fooled a lot of kids.

looks like google wants to defund the police.

wonder what other software is out there.

time to boycott google

and we need to start boycotting products advertised in nytimes, nbc, abc, cnn, MSNBC, Washington post, cbs

and pull stocks from any company that supports the far left.

Absolutely! I was young and in a bad spot when I went to Clemson. My father had just died of a heart attack at the age of 51. I was 21. We lost everything and i commuted back and forth to class while working in the remainder of my time. At that time I simply was trying to get my education and overcome losing my father unexpectedly and our home.

In the years since God opened my eyes to what’s going on and I thank Him daily for that.

Yea they have brainwashed the majority of kids now and are continuing to do so. What these professors don’t realize is once the puppet masters are done with them they know to much. So guess what happens to them as a result.

 

[appalachiatiger]

Absolutely! I was young and in a bad spot when I went to Clemson. My father had just died of a heart attack at the age of 51. I was 21. We lost everything and i commuted back and forth to class while working in the remainder of my time. At that time I simply was trying to get my education and overcome losing my father unexpectedly and our home.

In the years since God opened my eyes to what’s going on and I thank Him daily for that.

Yea they have brainwashed the majority of kids now and are continuing to do so. What these professors don’t realize is once the puppet masters are done with them they know to much. So guess what happens to them as a result.

I had this poli sci professor give me a D plus on a great paper just leaned away from his thinking.

had a hot chick the next year submit the same paper to same professor and she got an a

just renamed title.

he probably didn't read either.

same dam paper

white privilege my ass