Biden Gun Speech Thoughts?

[yoshi121374]

I wish there hadn't been any finger pointing, but that probably too much to ask for.

I thought that overall his suggestions for changes seemed common sense and should be fairly bi-partisan.

1. Raise the age to purchase firearms to 21
2. Waiting period for background checks.
3. Red Flag laws(my wife is a school counselor and has been asking for this)
4. Limiting magazine size.


Thoughts??

 

[dpic73]

All those sound perfectly reasonable to me and not sure why they couldn't pass on a bi-partisan level.

I didn't hear the whole speech but I thought he asked for an assault weapon ban but if that wouldn't pass, he wanted to raise the age to buy them to 21. Sounded like an either/or. Did I hear that correctly?

 

[moradatiger70]

What do you do with existing rifles and hand guns that only accept larger mags? What do you do with the existing mags?

edit:
I'm okay with 1-3, although I'd like to see a more detailed approach on 2 and 3.
On 1, if someone of any age or background wants to get a gun, I still don't see how this "stops" them, just makes it harder.

 

[jakefest]

I wish there hadn't been any finger pointing, but that probably too much to ask for.

I thought that overall his suggestions for changes seemed common sense and should be fairly bi-partisan.

1. Raise the age to purchase firearms to 21
2. Waiting period for background checks.
3. Red Flag laws(my wife is a school counselor and has been asking for this)
4. Limiting magazine size.


Thoughts??

All reasonable but it will beg the question if the country should raise the legal age to join the military to 21 and potentially the voting age to 21. Tough to tell an 18 year old they can die for the country but not be a legal gun owner.

Also, the definition of "assault weapon" needs to be clearly outlined as I don't think people truly get what it means.

Totally agree with Red Flag laws, absolute no brainer.

 

[moradatiger70]

All reasonable but it will beg the question if the country should raise the legal age to join the military to 21 and potentially the voting age to 21. Tough to tell an 18 year old they can die for the country but not be a legal gun owner.

Also, the definition of "assault weapon" needs to be clearly outlined as I don't think people truly get what it means.

Totally agree with Red Flag laws, absolute no brainer.

I though about that argument, and it's a tough one. I'd say if you do join the military then this would exempt you from the age requirement, if that makes sense or makes a difference since you'd be in the military anyway.

 

[CUT93]

I wish there hadn't been any finger pointing, but that probably too much to ask for.

I thought that overall his suggestions for changes seemed common sense and should be fairly bi-partisan.

1. Raise the age to purchase firearms to 21
2. Waiting period for background checks.
3. Red Flag laws(my wife is a school counselor and has been asking for this)
4. Limiting magazine size.


Thoughts??

I am not strongly against raising the age to 21, although it is hard to square that with giving 18 yr olds much more powerful weapons in the military and sending them out to die. As long as the background check process is reasonable, like a week or so, I have no problem with that and think it is a good idea. Not sure about the red flag laws, the devil is in the details on that one - would need to know specifics. Don't think magazine limits should be less than what is standard right now - like 15 rounds for pistols for example. Have no problem limiting crazy modified magazines, though. I wonder why he left out banning 9mm's this time?

The problem, however, is that this does nothing to address the problem they say they are trying to solve. It will have little/no impact on gun deaths. Same crap different day. Just a bunch of political posturing from the left. If all these laws had been passed 2 yrs ago, I doubt it would have stopped a single incident of mass shooting that occurred since then. Gun laws are restrictions on people who follow the law, not people who murder other people.

There were hundreds of guns at school in student cars every day when I was in school and it was not a problem. If gun access is the reason for mass murders, it would seem logical that there would have been many times more, not less, when there was basically unfettered daily access to guns at schools across the country.

 

[dpic73]

All reasonable but it will beg the question if the country should raise the legal age to join the military to 21 and potentially the voting age to 21. Tough to tell an 18 year old they can die for the country but not be a legal gun owner.

Also, the definition of "assault weapon" needs to be clearly outlined as I don't think people truly get what it means.

Totally agree with Red Flag laws, absolute no brainer.

Jake, you were in the military so you know the difference. You were trained to use the weapon and it was stored separately when you weren't using it, and there was always a clear chain of custody. C'mon man!

 

[clemsonalex]

I wish there hadn't been any finger pointing, but that probably too much to ask for.

I thought that overall his suggestions for changes seemed common sense and should be fairly bi-partisan.

1. Raise the age to purchase firearms to 21
2. Waiting period for background checks.
3. Red Flag laws(my wife is a school counselor and has been asking for this)
4. Limiting magazine size.


Thoughts??

1. If you raise the age to 21 then raise the age to vote to 21. If you're too immature to own a rifle then you're too immature to vote.
2. Would have a negligible impact. You'd really only be punishing the people who, for whatever reason, cannot afford to wait a week (like, a woman being abused or stalked by her ex, for example).
3. Slippery Slope. This would have to be very well regulated and penalties would need to be in place for people making false allegations against someone they don't like.
4. Negligible impact. The Parkland shooter used 10 round mags, which is 1/3 of the capacity of a standard AR magazine.

No talk of actually enforcing current gun laws is ever brought up. And don't forget about Operation Fast and Furious, where the US government allowed guns to be trafficked to Mexico in an ill-advised attempt to track the guns back to known felons/drug dealers/gun traffickers. It got Agent Brian Terry killed and not one single person in the US government was ever held liable.

 

[jakefest]

Jake, you were in the military so you know the difference. You were trained to use the weapon and it was stored separately when you weren't using it, and there was always a clear chain of custody. C'mon man!

Yep, what we had in the military were assault weapons ie; fully automatic, suppressors, assault handles, etc. A semi-automatic weapon is no different than a hunting rifle which is my point. Need to change the definition as fully automatic weapons are in fact banned.

An AR is less powerful than plenty of hunting rifles and no more maneuverable in small spaces.

You're giving the military way too much credit, plenty of weapons went missing.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

I wish there hadn't been any finger pointing, but that probably too much to ask for.

I thought that overall his suggestions for changes seemed common sense and should be fairly bi-partisan.

1. Raise the age to purchase firearms to 21
2. Waiting period for background checks.
3. Red Flag laws(my wife is a school counselor and has been asking for this)
4. Limiting magazine size.


Thoughts??

If “if” they stopped there, these are very reasonable changes.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

1. If you raise the age to 21 then raise the age to vote to 21. If you're too immature to own a rifle then you're too immature to vote.
2. Would have a negligible impact. You'd really only be punishing the people who, for whatever reason, cannot afford to wait a week (like, a woman being abused or stalked by her ex, for example).
3. Slippery Slope. This would have to be very well regulated and penalties would need to be in place for people making false allegations against someone they don't like.
4. Negligible impact. The Parkland shooter used 10 round mags, which is 1/3 of the capacity of a standard AR magazine.

No talk of actually enforcing current gun laws is ever brought up. And don't forget about Operation Fast and Furious, where the US government allowed guns to be trafficked to Mexico in an ill-advised attempt to track the guns back to known felons/drug dealers/gun traffickers. It got Agent Brian Terry killed and not one single person in the US government was ever held liable.

Also, all true.

 

[yoshi121374]

If “if” they stopped there, these are very reasonable changes.

Agreed. My hope is that we have some common sense agreements. Just getting anything done would be an improvement compared to recent government.

 

[jakefest]

1. If you raise the age to 21 then raise the age to vote to 21. If you're too immature to own a rifle then you're too immature to vote.
2. Would have a negligible impact. You'd really only be punishing the people who, for whatever reason, cannot afford to wait a week (like, a woman being abused or stalked by her ex, for example).
3. Slippery Slope. This would have to be very well regulated and penalties would need to be in place for people making false allegations against someone they don't like.
4. Negligible impact. The Parkland shooter used 10 round mags, which is 1/3 of the capacity of a standard AR magazine.

No talk of actually enforcing current gun laws is ever brought up. And don't forget about Operation Fast and Furious, where the US government allowed guns to be trafficked to Mexico in an ill-advised attempt to track the guns back to known felons/drug dealers/gun traffickers. It got Agent Brian Terry killed and not one single person in the US government was ever held liable.

Good point on the mag capacity and one that I've made on here before. There is no law on how many mags you can buy so not hard to buy 20 x 10rd mags and buy a chest rig for quick/easy access.

 

[clemsonalex]

Good point on the mag capacity and one that I've made on here before. There is no law on how many mags you can buy so not hard to buy 20 x 10rd mags and buy a chest rig for quick/easy access.

Not to mention, there are already 10's, if not 100's of millions of standard capacity AR mags already in civilian hands...Banning new production would be like trying to mop the ocean...

 

[dpic73]

Yep, what we had in the military were assault weapons ie; fully automatic, suppressors, assault handles, etc. A semi-automatic weapon is no different than a hunting rifle which is my point. Need to change the definition as fully automatic weapons are in fact banned.

An AR is less powerful than plenty of hunting rifles and no more maneuverable in small spaces.

You're giving the military way too much credit, plenty of weapons went missing.

Then why buy an AR-15? Good grief man, be serious.

 

[yoshi121374]

Yep, what we had in the military were assault weapons ie; fully automatic, suppressors, assault handles, etc. A semi-automatic weapon is no different than a hunting rifle which is my point. Need to change the definition as fully automatic weapons are in fact banned.

An AR is less powerful than plenty of hunting rifles and no more maneuverable in small spaces.

You're giving the military way too much credit, plenty of weapons went missing.

True and I don't disagree. But the mag capacity and the modular nature of the AR, not to mention the overwhelming popularity of it as a killing weapon have made it different.

 

[DW4_2016]

Not to mention, there are already 10's, if not 100's of millions of standard capacity AR mags already in civilian hands...Banning new production would be like trying to mop the ocean...

Amazing you’re willing to give up before even trying.

On to the issue. I think someone should sue a gun shop for selling guns to someone who isn’t in a well regulated militia. See how that goes with this court.

 

[clemsonalex]

Amazing you’re willing to give up before even trying. Wouldn’t have expected you to give up on what we can do.

After this response I will abstain from anymore interaction with you. You want everyone to agree with your view and your view only. You're not willing to give one inch, which is the typical liberal stance on literally everything.

 

[DW4_2016]

After this response I will abstain from anymore interaction with you. You want everyone to agree with your view and your view only. You're not willing to give one inch, which is the typical liberal stance on literally everything.

I own guns. Many guns. Many varieties, makes, models, styles. You have no evidence that it won’t work, just your own projections.

 

[yoshi121374]

After this response I will abstain from anymore interaction with you. You want everyone to agree with your view and your view only. You're not willing to give one inch, which is the typical liberal stance on literally everything.

I will have open debate with you and I would believe that I've shown an ability to do that.

I would phrase the question he asked you thusly ," just because it's difficult,and might not fix everything, do you think that it might help?". Should we not try because it will be hard?

 

[jakefest]

True and I don't disagree. But the mag capacity and the modular nature of the AR, not to mention the overwhelming popularity of it as a killing weapon have made it different.

Way more people are killed by handguns each year, as noted below. We are fixated on the wrong weapon.

In 2020, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available, according to the FBI. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders. Shotguns were involved in 1%.

The 3% includes all long rifles so hard to even say what portion of the 3% are AR related.

Sure, they can be modified but so can handguns, hunting rifles etc.

 

[clemsonalex]

I will have open debate with you and I would believe that I've shown an ability to do that.

I would phrase the question he asked you thusly ," just because it's difficult,and might not fix everything, do you think that it might help?". Should we not try because it will be hard?

The only proposal that could help, in my opinion, is red flag laws. But they need to be so well written and crafted as to avoid abuse. The other proposed solutions, as I said, will have little to no effect or in the case of waiting periods, could very well get the purchaser killed while waiting for approval.

 

[jakefest]

Then why buy an AR-15? Good grief man, be serious.

Right, because I don't agree with you I'm not being serious......forgot how it works when it comes to having an adult conversation with you. Believe or not, many American's like to shoot as a hobby and many might like the AR for a multitude of reasons such as low recoil/kick, lightweight so easier to aim while standing, etc etc. They are fun weapons to shoot.

Once again, will post the actual stats:

In 2020, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available, according to the FBI. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders. Shotguns were involved in 1%.

Handguns account for more death than any other weapon but you think taking AR's off the streets is going to fix the nations problem with gun deaths. The reality is if the country is going to stand by the 2nd amendment, which we all know it will, then you want people to own long rifles not handguns as you can't conceal them.

 

[yoshi121374]

Way more people are killed by handguns each year, as noted below. We are fixated on the wrong weapon.

In 2020, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available, according to the FBI. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders. Shotguns were involved in 1%.

The 3% includes all long rifles so hard to even say what portion of the 3% are AR related.

Sure, they can be modified but so can handguns, hunting rifles etc.

I agree for the most part, and as I have stated, I am a gun owner and not at all anti-gun. As a legal gun owner my focus is trying to eliminate these types of incidents so we can continue to be legal gun owners.

My concern for an AR is the extended mags for the most part. Sure you can have a 15 round mag in a 9mm, but that's a mag change twice for one AR 30rd Mag. You are also far more accurate with a long gun then a handgun. Most handgun deaths of I'm not mistaken are suicides. I also think you would have a far harder time doing anything legally to regulate a hand gun.

I get annoyed at the attention on "assault rifles" when referring to a semi-automatic rifle that looks scarier. There is truth in the facts that for whatever reason, these school shooters love AR15's. It's the weapon of choice, probably because it looks scary.

 

[yoshi121374]

The only proposal that could help, in my opinion, is red flag laws. But they need to be so well written and crafted as to avoid abuse. The other proposed solutions, as I said, will have little to no effect or in the case of waiting periods, could very well get the purchaser killed while waiting for approval.

I agree on red flags. I would love to know in what situation a purchaser would need to have a gun in a hurry to avoid being killed, when they shouldn't go directly to the police?

 

[hopefultiger13]

All reasonable but it will beg the question if the country should raise the legal age to join the military to 21 and potentially the voting age to 21. Tough to tell an 18 year old they can die for the country but not be a legal gun owner.

Also, the definition of "assault weapon" needs to be clearly outlined as I don't think people truly get what it means.

Totally agree with Red Flag laws, absolute no brainer.

Good point, but we already do it all the time. You can't drink, you can't buy cigarettes, you can't rent a car or hotel room, hell, you can't even become a cop in most places until you are 21. You already can't buy a handgun or handgun ammo. FBI require you be 23 before becoming an agent. I'm pretty sure you can't go into a casino. If you are in a legal state, you can't buy weed until you are 21. You can apply to adopt a child at 21. You can't fly a commercial plane until 21. . The fact of the matter is that we limit a BUNCH of stuff now.

 

[yoshi121374]

Biden did address the question of why raise the age to 21 when you can serve in the military at 18. I thought the response was fairly measured and logical.

When in the military you are trained by the best in the world on safe handling and use and you are under supervision of trained officers while armed.

 

[clemsonalex]

I agree on red flags. I would love to know in what situation a purchaser would need to have a gun in a hurry to avoid being killed, when they shouldn't go directly to the police?

Let's say for example a woman has been stalked/harassed and has =gone to the police and has a protective order against her abusive ex. The ex ignores the order and still stalks and/or beats the woman up. She's already tried the police route and it didn't work, so why go that way again when she can arm herself? When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

 

[WapPride]

say there's an alien invasion and you need to get a gun that day to prevent independence day from happening?

what now libs?

 

[clemsonalex]

Good point, but we already do it all the time. You can't drink, you can't buy cigarettes, you can't rent a car or hotel room, hell, you can't even become a cop in most places until you are 21. You already can't buy a handgun or handgun ammo. FBI require you be 23 before becoming an agent. I'm pretty sure you can't go into a casino. If you are in a legal state, you can't buy weed until you are 21. You can apply to adopt a child at 21. You can't fly a commercial plane until 21. . The fact of the matter is that we limit a BUNCH of stuff now.

But the right to bear arms, and self defense, is a protected right in the Constitution. Renting a car or hotel is not...

 

[WapPride]

But the right to bear arms, and self defense, is a protected right in the Constitution. Renting a car or hotel is not...

no where did he say you can't own a gun

he just wants to put restrictions on a CERTAIN TYPE of gun
also, the constitution doesn't say shit about 18 being the required age

 

[yoshi121374]

Let's say for example a woman has been stalked/harassed and has =gone to the police and has a protective order against her abusive ex. The ex ignores the order and still stalks and/or beats the woman up. She's already tried the police route and it didn't work, so why go that way again when she can arm herself? When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

I hear that scenario, and to some degree understand the concept since I live out in the country and the police are a 15 minute trip away.

Having said that, very few good things happen when someone feels that they need to get a gun in a hurry. I would suggest that if this type of case came up, a better course of action for her after the police would be to go to a friend's house, or someone else who is legally armed.

 

[clemsonalex]

I hear that scenario, and to some degree understand the concept since I live out in the country and the police are a 15 minute trip away.

Having said that, very few good things happen when someone feels that they need to get a gun in a hurry. I would suggest that if this type of case came up, a better course of action for her after the police would be to go to a friend's house, or someone else who is legally armed.

Thank you for a mature, well respected conversation, sir!

 

[ForzaTigre]

I’m pro gun and fine with all of them. They probably won’t happen, but I’m fine with them. People who think that anything will drastically change with gun laws is fooling themselves. It won’t happen in America.

 

[yoshi121374]

But the right to bear arms, and self defense, is a protected right in the Constitution. Renting a car or hotel is not...

We can debate the intent of the 2bd amendment until we are blue in the face, but the reality is that having a right, doesn't mean that there aren't restrictions on that right.

We have a right to free speech, but we legally can't tell fire in a crowded theater.

 

[yoshi121374]

I’m pro gun and fine with all of them. They probably won’t happen, but I’m fine with them. People who think that anything will drastically change with gun laws is fooling themselves. It won’t happen in America.

I agree with this, but it is encouraging to here gun owners agree we need to do something.

 

[clemsonalex]

no where did he say you can't own a gun

he just wants to put restrictions on a CERTAIN TYPE of gun
also, the constitution doesn't say shit about 18 being the required age

Calm down. SCOTUS has already ruled that the 2nd amendment applies to 18 year Olds and even the 9th Circuit in California has ruled that barring 18 year Olds from buying semiautomatic rifles is unconstitutional. It's a dead talking point.

 

[WapPride]

Calm down. SCOTUS has already ruled that the 2nd amendment applies to 18 year Olds and even the 9th Circuit in California has ruled that barring 18 year Olds from buying semiautomatic rifles is unconstitutional. It's a dead talking point.

didn't that ruling only apply to persons under 21 who didn't have a hunting license and wasn't current or former military/police?

 

[yoshi121374]

Calm down. SCOTUS has already ruled that the 2nd amendment applies to 18 year Olds and even the 9th Circuit in California has ruled that barring 18 year Olds from buying semiautomatic rifles is unconstitutional. It's a dead talking point.

Honest Question, why the resistance to raising the age to purchase?

 

[jakefest]

We can debate the intent of the 2bd amendment until we are blue in the face, but the reality is that having a right, doesn't mean that there aren't restrictions on that right.

We have a right to free speech, but we legally can't tell fire in a crowded theater.

The states already apply their own restrictions with places like NJ being very restrictive. I could see this following a similar path as roe vs wade in that it gets pushed to state level. Red states will remain more open and blue more restrictive.