CFP tweet

[hinds62]

We weren’t prepared although previous presidents had set up plan. He got rid of their precautions and then still didn’t prepare once he knew of the potential problem last year.

I am not questioning your comments but could you shed a little more light on what you are posting above, What were the plans that "previous presidents had set up and Trump allegedly got rid of them." You also say that Trump "didn't prepare once he knew of the potential problem last year." Could you provide some more info on that also, like dates and what he didn't do and should have done? Thanks

 

[tigerragman]

We weren’t prepared although previous presidents had set up plan. He got rid of their precautions and then still didn’t prepare once he knew of the potential problem last year.

What previous presidents and plans?? Facts, not opinions please. I seriously doubt Trump inherited the plans nor the means, including respirators, protective clothing, medical staff and virus research to make a significant dent in a pandemic of this magnitude. Where were you people in 2009 when Obama did absolutely zilch for six months to address the swine flu pandemic before ten thousand lives were lost in the U. S. and it ran its course naturally? The fact that some of you create or just spread mistruths without actually getting off your lazy butts and doing even a minute amount of research is sadly pathetic.

 

[Emergence]

Is it your hope that Mike Pence is a good Vice President or are you just reminding us how dire our predicament is with Trump and Pence heading the administration?

for a native mandarin speaker your English is pretty good.

 

[allorangec]

The death toll has certainly exceeded my expectations, but I am just one guy.

what was your expectation and do you have some sources on why this was your expectation

 

[stigers91]

See this is where the dumb ass in you shines through.

Herp derp only 28k (its 30k btw) deaths.

Why is that ok? General incompetence led to those deaths. There was no reason why that many people should have died.

That's just as stupid an answer as I could expect. You would ruin the entire country to stop the same number of deaths from a flu season, and yes thats what is looking like now. Just about every country has flatlined around 6 - 8 weeks. That includes countries not imposing lock downs.

7.7 billion people in the world, 50 million annual deaths, 150k COVID deaths. Not even a drop in the bucket.

Just the US, 332 million people, 2.8 - 3 million deaths annually, 40k COVID. So this pandemic may account for 3-4 % of the annual death total.

Just stop.

 

[clemsontyger04]

That's just as stupid an answer as I could expect. You would ruin the entire country to stop the same number of deaths from a flu season, and yes thats what is looking like now. Just about every country has flatlined around 6 - 8 weeks. That includes countries not imposing lock downs.

7.7 billion people in the world, 50 million annual deaths, 150k COVID deaths. Not even a drop in the bucket.

Just the US, 332 million people, 2.8 - 3 million deaths annually, 40k COVID. So this pandemic may account for 3-4 % of the annual death total.

Just stop.

Let me break this down in simple terms. A proactive approach would have allowed us to either mitigate or even avoid an outbreak in this country. The country wouldnt have had to stop dead in its tracks. Also, "a normal flu season" does not see almost 40k die in a months time.

We had to go take drastic steps because we had to react after the fact. Better screening of international flights would have helped. A quick not delayed response would have helped. None of that happened till it was already here.

 

[stigers91]

Let me break this down in simple terms. A proactive approach would have allowed us to either mitigate or even avoid an outbreak in this country. The country wouldnt have had to stop dead in its tracks. Also, "a normal flu season" does not see almost 40k die in a months time.

We had to go take drastic steps because we had to react after the fact. Better screening of international flights would have helped. A quick not delayed response would have helped. None of that happened till it was already here.

It was already in this country by the time Wuhan became big news. 40k deaths in a month? This hasnt been here for a month, its been here longer.

Stop it from getting in this country. Really, thats your arguement? Screening of international flights? With what a questionnaire? Just quarantine everyone from international flights? You really have thought this out.

Lets assume your correct. We go full lock down weeks earlier. We cut cases in half, only 10k -15k deaths. Now we have 30 - 40 million unemployed, businesses failing everywhere, economy opens back up, but no jobs to go back to for a large majority of people. Banks can only defer pmts for so long. Mtg defaults start increasing, house values start falling, market has longer prolonged down turn, we are now in a recession, but you saved 30k lives.

Glad, you dont have to make the tough decisions.

 

[lvilletiger]

what was your expectation and do you have some sources on why this was your expectation

No sources. Not an expert and don't pretend to be.

I look back at what I was doing on March 1. I think there were about 60 reported cases in the US at that point. I was finalizing plans for a trip to Vegas for March Madness. I was getting really close to closing a deal on a new consulting engagement. My wife and I were deciding what we would do for spring break. None of those things happened. I didn't see that coming.

If you or anyone had told me on March 1 that over 30,000 people in the US would die from this virus in the next 6 weeks I would have found that preposterous. So yes the death toll has far exceeded my expectations.

I wasn't arguing with anyone, with their model of choice, with their politics of choice, etc. I was merely stating my personal perspective.

 

[RodnHe]

He might be great at other things but they’ve botched this virus.

how?

 

[allorangec]

No sources. Not an expert and don't pretend to be.

I look back at what I was doing on March 1. I think there were about 60 reported cases in the US at that point. I was finalizing plans for a trip to Vegas for March Madness. I was getting really close to closing a deal on a new consulting engagement. My wife and I were deciding what we would do for spring break. None of those things happened. I didn't see that coming.

If you or anyone had told me on March 1 that over 30,000 people in the US would die from this virus in the next 6 weeks I would have found that preposterous. So yes the death toll has far exceeded my expectations.

I wasn't arguing with anyone, with their model of choice, with their politics of choice, etc. I was merely stating my personal perspective.

strange, because in March I was being told 250 - 500 k death. Guess we listen to different news

 

[allorangec]

there is no president that could have stopped businesses from closing unless we went the Sweden way. And no Democrat has proposed that

 

[allorangec]

Honestly, no president has ever gone through anything like this. No president would have been perfect. Everybody is playing Monday Morning QB.

 

[lvilletiger]

strange, because in March I was being told 250 - 500 k death. Guess we listen to different news

On March 1? Really?

 

[tigerragman]

there is no president that could have stopped businesses from closing unless we went the Sweden way. And no Democrat has proposed that

Exactly. The leadership of the Dem party even blasted Trump for stopping flights from China within one week of our first confirmed case here in the U. S. Biden, Pelosi, Schumer all called him zenaphobic and racist for doing it. Even one month later Pelosi was encouraging a large public gathering and party in San Francisco's Chinatown. Just think how many more thousands of Americans would have died had those fools been calling the shots!

 

[spskillz]

What previous presidents and plans?? Facts, not opinions please. I seriously doubt Trump inherited the plans nor the means, including respirators, protective clothing, medical staff and virus research to make a significant dent in a pandemic of this magnitude. Where were you people in 2009 when Obama did absolutely zilch for six months to address the swine flu pandemic before ten thousand lives were lost in the U. S. and it ran its course naturally? The fact that some of you create or just spread mistruths without actually getting off your lazy butts and doing even a minute amount of research is sadly pathetic.

I’m proud that there was a black president and think he’s a good guy but I don’t otherwise give a shit about Obama. He did nothing for small business and I hate Obamacare. Why is always assumed that you have to be for the other side to be critical of an elected official? Many do a poor job and in this instance Trump has not been prudent for the reasons already listed.

 

[hinds62]

I’m proud that there was a black president and think he’s a good guy but I don’t otherwise give a shit about Obama. He did nothing for small business and I hate Obamacare. Why is always assumed that you have to be for the other side to be critical of an elected official? Many do a poor job and in this instance Trump has not been prudent for the reasons already listed.

And what were those reasons, spskillz? You have made a statement critical of Trump and some have asked what is your basis. You ramble and never answer, which is what I expected. Lastly, give me one reason you think “Obama is a good guy?” Thanks

 

[spskillz]

And what were those reasons, spskillz? You have made a statement critical of Trump and some have asked what is your basis. You ramble and never answer, which is what I expected. Lastly, give me one reason you think “Obama is a good guy?” Thanks

I didn’t ramble, the reasons were already stated. Go back and read them. Mainly, he got rid of the organization that was pegged to handle this.

Obama is well educated, good family man, inspiring, I mean, give some reasons he’s not a good guy?

Let me flip this, give me a criticism of Trump? I think there are a bunch and that’s because NO ONE is perfect, and I don’t understand why anyone would be beyond criticism. Based on your post I don’t think you’ll try because you’re too far up his ass.

 

[tigerragman]

I’m proud that there was a black president and think he’s a good guy but I don’t otherwise give a shit about Obama. He did nothing for small business and I hate Obamacare. Why is always assumed that you have to be for the other side to be critical of an elected official? Many do a poor job and in this instance Trump has not been prudent for the reasons already listed.

Not sure what any of what you say has any relationship to my post. Also, please tell me why you feel Trump has been imprudent (only talking about this instance, not others where I could possibly agree).

 

[tigerragman]

I didn’t ramble, the reasons were already stated. Go back and read them. Mainly, he got rid of the organization that was pegged to handle this.

Obama is well educated, good family man, inspiring, I mean, give some reasons he’s not a good guy?

Let me flip this, give me a criticism of Trump? I think there are a bunch and that’s because NO ONE is perfect, and I don’t understand why anyone would be beyond criticism. Based on your post I don’t think you’ll try because you’re too far up his ass.

Everything you say about Obama being a good guy and family man seems true. However, he was an inexperienced, lousy President.

 

[spskillz]

Everything you say about Obama being a good guy and family man seems true. However, he was an inexperienced, lousy President.

I can respect your comments but you refused to call Trump on any mistake. You like Trump and would never admit that he’s ever had a doo doo stain in his draws.

 

[tigerragman]

I can respect your comments but you refused to call Trump on any mistake. You like Trump and would never admit that he’s ever had a doo doo stain in his draws.

Please don't assume to read other people's minds. You know what they say about assume: "they make an ass out of you and me". I personally dislike Donald Trump in several ways (ego, bullying, narcissism, insecurities, to name a few). However, the majority of his economic, pro life, foreign policy decisions and negotiations, and now his early and prompt leadership with respect to COVID-19, are difficult not to endorse or even applaud, IMHO.

 

[spskillz]

Please don't assume to read other people's minds. You know what they say about assume: "they make an ass out of you and me". I personally dislike Donald Trump in several ways (ego, bullying, narcissism, insecurities, to name a few). However, the majority of his economic, pro life, foreign policy decisions and negotiations, and now his early and prompt leadership with respect to COVID-19, are difficult not to endorse or even applaud, IMHO.

Stop trying to be clever LOL! I only assumed because you had initially refused to point out his obvious flaws. And I agree with your positives except for saying he handled the COVID well and he’s not really a leader. Other countries have handled it better and again, he got rid of the organization that would’ve identified it as a problem much earlier instead of having to rely upon (and blame) the WHO.

 

[tigerragman]

Please give facts, not your humble opinion as to how he handled COVID poorly. Especially when he stopped air travel a full month before the "leaders" of the Dem party, Biden, Pelosi and Schumer stopped criticizing him for doing so. In Biden's case, at least he had the class to admit he was mistaken and Trump was right. Otherwise, it is seems obvious that you are going to have an opinion contrary to mine, regardless of how many lives Trump saved by shutting down air travel from China, then Europe, while simultaneously severely restricting a booming economy with business closings and social distancing in a powerful effort to save even more American lives. For me, I am thankful he was a strong leader compared to a Joe Biden, who by his own admission would have delayed these same restrictions for weeks! So, you go vote for your candidate in November and I'll vote for mine, warts and all!

 

[spskillz]

Please give facts, not your humble opinion as to how he handled COVID poorly. Especially when he stopped air travel a full month before the "leaders" of the Dem party, Biden, Pelosi and Schumer stopped criticizing him for doing so. In Biden's case, at least he had the class to admit he was mistaken and Trump was right. Otherwise, it is seems obvious that you are going to have an opinion contrary to mine, regardless of how many lives Trump saved by shutting down air travel from China, then Europe, while simultaneously severely restricting a booming economy with business closings and social distancing in a powerful effort to save even more American lives. For me, I am thankful he was a strong leader compared to a Joe Biden, who by his own admission would have delayed these same restrictions for weeks! So, you go vote for your candidate in November and I'll vote for mine, warts and all!

I gave facts. The fact is he got rid of the organization who identifies and advises on pandemics. And now he blames the WHO for hiding how serious it was. FACTS.

The fact is if you plan ahead of time then you are months ahead on testing and treatment. FACT.

Now, his plan to re-open things has no provision for widespread testing and a reliable treatment identified. There was a way to do this right.

Finally, I’ve said nothing about Biden. My statement was that Trump botched this Virus. I’m not making a comparison and I haven’t decided who I will vote for. I will need to see Bidens VP and plan for small business before I make any sort of commitment.

 

[tigerragman]

I gave facts. The fact is he got rid of the organization who identifies and advises on pandemics. And now he blames the WHO for hiding how serious it was. FACTS.

The fact is if you plan ahead of time then you are months ahead on testing and treatment. FACT.

Now, his plan to re-open things has no provision for widespread testing and a reliable treatment identified. There was a way to do this right.

Finally, I’ve said nothing about Biden. My statement was that Trump botched this Virus. I’m not making a comparison and I haven’t decided who I will vote for. I will need to see Bidens VP and plan for small business before I make any sort of commitment.

Like I said. Your facts are not facts..

The only proven fact you provide is the World Health Organization's name. In my opinion, and that of many brighter scholars than you or I, that same organization not only botched the deadliness of the disease but assisted China in covering up the fact that this virus could in fact be transmitted from one human to another. Like the Dems, WHO actually criticized Trump for closing air traffic from China and Europe and indicated it to be totally unnecessary!. .Also, please tell me specifically which country foresaw anything like this coming and adequately prepared for it? Despite everything, our treatment/recovery success rate has been superior to anyone in the world! And, on second thought, please don't answer my questions any longer. I am done with this this thread as your decision was seemingly made before anyone in the world knew the magnitude of the problem. I sincerely wish you good health my friend. Now how about we all just go back to talking sports on here?

 

[spskillz]

Like I said. Your facts are not facts..

The only proven fact you provide is the World Health Organization's name. In my opinion, and that of many brighter scholars than you or I, that same organization not only botched the deadliness of the disease but assisted China in covering up the fact that this virus could in fact be transmitted from one human to another. Like the Dems, WHO actually criticized Trump for closing air traffic from China and Europe and indicated it to be totally unnecessary!. .Also, please tell me specifically which country foresaw anything like this coming and adequately prepared for it? Despite everything, our treatment/recovery success rate has been superior to anyone in the world! And, on second thought, please don't answer my questions any longer. I am done with this this thread as your decision was seemingly made before anyone in the world knew the magnitude of the problem. I sincerely wish you good health my friend. Now how about we all just go back to talking sports on here?

The things I stated were absolutely facts and your apparent retort missed the point. I won’t criticize you, but I don’t think you understand what I’m saying.

 

[hinds62]

The things I stated were absolutely facts and your apparent retort missed the point. I won’t criticize you, but I don’t think you understand what I’m saying.

Finally something you have written that I agree with!! The reason, IMO, that Tigerragman and I don't understand what you are saying is that you are factually incorrect on some things and keep saying Trump got rid of the organization or group that could have had an impact on the covid19 spread. Perhaps I missed something here so please enlighten me with actual facts and not your opinion. Nothing personal, spskillz, maybe tigerrragman is correct and we should return to posting about sports as it is obvious to me that you and I see things differently about Trump and Obama.

 

[spskillz]

Finally something you have written that I agree with!! The reason, IMO, that Tigerragman and I don't understand what you are saying is that you are factually incorrect on some things and keep saying Trump got rid of the organization or group that could have had an impact on the covid19 spread. Perhaps I missed something here so please enlighten me with actual facts and not your opinion. Nothing personal, spskillz, maybe tigerrragman is correct and we should return to posting about sports as it is obvious to me that you and I see things differently about Trump and Obama.

In May of 2018, the Global Health Security and Biodefense unit was disbanded. It’s a fact that it existed and that it no longer exists.

 

[tigerragman]

In May of 2018, the Global Health Security and Biodefense unit was disbanded. It’s a fact that it existed and that it no longer exists.

Trying too hard there brother! This "disbanding" of the Global Health Security and Biodefense unit you refer to occurred 2 years ago under Secretary John Boldon. Although you do get an "A" for effort in citing at least one item from your list as being partially factual, the organization you reference was actually not disbanded but rather reorganized and under the National Security Office where it remains today. The positions that existed in The Global Health Security and Biodefense Unit before the restructure still exist today within the NSC. Keep trying brother and don't believe everything the libs and Joe Biden specifically, are trying to mislead the public with about this unit. It is gone in name only.

 

[nsp1996]

Below is one article that discusses this topic.

The Washington Post

No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. I was there.

By Tim Morrison
March 16, 2020 at 1:37 p.m. EDT

Tim Morrison is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and former senior director for counterproliferation and biodefense on the National Security Council.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

 

[spskillz]

Below is one article that discusses this topic.

The Washington Post

No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. I was there.

By Tim Morrison
March 16, 2020 at 1:37 p.m. EDT

Tim Morrison is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and former senior director for counterproliferation and biodefense on the National Security Council.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

This is an opinion piece. It characterized the office as “bloat,” when it appears that the resources and manpower was necessary.

 

[spskillz]

Trying too hard there brother! This "disbanding" of the Global Health Security and Biodefense unit you refer to occurred 2 years ago under Secretary John Boldon. Although you do get an "A" for effort in citing at least one item from your list as being partially factual, the organization you reference was actually not disbanded but rather reorganized and under the National Security Office where it remains today. The positions that existed in The Global Health Security and Biodefense Unit before the restructure still exist today within the NSC. Keep trying brother and don't believe everything the libs and Joe Biden specifically, are trying to mislead the public with about this unit. It is gone in name only.

They downsized it and the NSC absorbed it. It didn’t need to be downsized, it’s size was appropriate.

 

[nsp1996]

They downsized it and the NSC absorbed it. It didn’t need to be downsized, it’s size was appropriate.

Maybe. Maybe all that was done was to streamline and eliminate some bureaucratic inefficiencies. Not like our federal government isn't too big or anything.

Orange Man Bad people dropping the "fact" that Trump somehow disbanded the federal government entity responsible for planning for and reacting to pandemics is not true.

 

[nsp1996]

This is an opinion piece. It characterized the office as “bloat,” when it appears that the resources and manpower was necessary.

Of course it is in the Opinon section, it was someone (not a reporter) writing from first-hand experience presenting a narrative that didn't fit with the popular narrative and world view of most of that paper's audience.

 

[spskillz]

Of course it is in the Opinon section, it was someone (not a reporter) writing from first-hand experience presenting a narrative that didn't fit with the popular narrative and world view of most of that paper's audience.

That is not what makes it an opinion piece. You know that though. I think.

Example of why I don’t buy the opinion that disbanding it did nothing. What if Clemson tried to disband the football staff and absorb it into the presidency while also eliminating a few of the staff? Would you support this? Will that be more efficient? The answer is “no.” Same concept here.

 

[tigerragman]

They downsized it and the NSC absorbed it. It didn’t need to be downsized, it’s size was appropriate.

Again, it was NOT disbanded. And, the only "downsizing" was that it's Director job was eliminated. All other employees remained intact and the entire group now reports to the National Security Director.

 

[spskillz]

Again, it was NOT disbanded. And, the only "downsizing" was that it's Director job was eliminated. All other employees remained intact and the entire group now reports to the National Security Director.

I didn’t say it was disbanded. I don’t know the veracity of your one person post. If true thought, think about it like this. What if Clemson fired Dabo, put all the other coaches in other sports, and tried to handle the football team. Would you be OK with it? If something went wrong, wouldn’t you point to it?

 

[tigerragman]

I didn’t say it was disbanded. I don’t know the veracity of your one person post. If true thought, think about it like this. What if Clemson fired Dabo, put all the other coaches in other sports, and tried to handle the football team. Would you be OK with it? If something went wrong, wouldn’t you point to it?

Sorry, but you used the noun "disbanding" in your post. Your actual words were "I don't buy the opinion that DISBANDING it did nothing". Apparently there is no hope for you in seeing the blatant misrepresentation of how this organization was streamlined vs. "disbanding" it for the political benefit of Trump's opponents. I promise this will be my last post to you on this or any other subject so feel free to continue "flaming" away.

 

[hinds62]

Trying too hard there brother! This "disbanding" of the Global Health Security and Biodefense unit you refer to occurred 2 years ago under Secretary John Boldon. Although you do get an "A" for effort in citing at least one item from your list as being partially factual, the organization you reference was actually not disbanded but rather reorganized and under the National Security Office where it remains today. The positions that existed in The Global Health Security and Biodefense Unit before the restructure still exist today within the NSC. Keep trying brother and don't believe everything the libs and Joe Biden specifically, are trying to mislead the public with about this unit. It is gone in name only.

You beat me to it with this post, tigerragman!. Thanks for your post!

 

[hinds62]

I didn’t say it was disbanded. I don’t know the veracity of your one person post. If true thought, think about it like this. What if Clemson fired Dabo, put all the other coaches in other sports, and tried to handle the football team. Would you be OK with it? If something went wrong, wouldn’t you point to it?

Dabo is qualified and getting exceptional results so there would be no need to fire him. If the football team was moved to a position of being under the Clemson President's office, that would be okay with me because like our exceptional football coach, we have an exceptional college President.