Covid Vaccines.....

[CU Alumnus]

I won't be the first to take it, but I won't be the last either.

 

[CU Alumnus]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I will go down the rabbit hole a little.

I have thought for a while that China has had a vaccine of their own OR there are people dying at an astonishing rate over there. It's one of the two. Every where else in the world, some places with amazing health care and restrictive measures, are having a tough time with this thing. Meanwhile China, one of the most populated countries on earth with terrible health care is reporting less than 100 cases per day and 91K total cases since March??? I don't know how or why the world isn't absolutely outraged at China. Are people not infuriated at those numbers? It's a slap in the face. They haven't lifted a freaking finger to help and have not been truthful from the start. They won't even let investigators in to try and locate the source. Meanwhile our own politicians are ripping each other apart over this thing when the bipartisan effort and finger pointing should be squarely on CHINA. It's unreal the pass they have been given and it's disgusting that we have some leaders in this country and around the world in other countries that refuse to publicly acknowledge the lack of cooperation from the harvesters of this disease that will kill millions and cost trillions.

Accept that we have no idea what is happening in China. What they are telling is is probably mostly lies, honestly.

 

[CoffeeIsForClosers]

just FYI....not everything out on store shelves Is out because of “fear” or “panic.” Not only did grocery stores see business volume jump dramatically (restaurants valume down

when 2 doctors have 2 different medical opinions how do you decide who to go with? Assuming it doesn’t short out your program

Are you talking the difference between an epidemiologist’s opinion and a chiropractor? Both are Doctors, yes. But one opinion should carry a lot more weight than the other.

 

[saber8689]

Give me examples of long term well documented studies done on mRNA delivery vaccines like the ones in question. The Flu has just about the same mortality rate as COVID. Are we making Flu shots mandatory now?And where does it stop? It seems a little George Orwell 1984ish to me.

There are no long term mRNA studies because this is the first one. This is still a lazy reason to not take the vaccine and screams of fake intellectualism. However, if this was your sole reason for not taking the vaccine, I'd accept it even though it's a stupid reason. Sadly it's not most people's only reason.

Flu is not as contagious as covid and mortality isnt the only number that matters. Flu doesnt hospitalize patients as long as covid. Flu doesn't cause as many long term effects. Flu symptoms are not as insidious in onset or long lasting.

 

[saber8689]

when 2 doctors have 2 different medical opinions how do you decide who to go with? Assuming it doesn’t short out your program

You follow the data first.

#1 you make sure one of the doctors isn't an idiot like Scott Atlas or Christopher Duntsch and they follow and interpret the data in a meaningful way.

#2 get a 3rd doctor.

Instead we get keyboard warriors who think they know how to interpret data and feel smart combining it with "common sense" while lacking the self awareness to know they know nothing. Add to that a scenario where the President has not only made it acceptable, but encourages distrusting experts, you end up with half the posters on this board.

 

[jxmas1175]

There are no long term mRNA studies because this is the first one. This is still a lazy reason to not take the virus and screams of fake intellectualism. However, if this was your sole reason for not taking the vaccine, I'd accept it even though it's a stupid reason. Sadly it's not most people's only reason.

Flu is not as contagious as covid and mortality isnt the only number that matters. Flu doesnt hospitalize patients as long as covid. Flu doesn't cause as many long term effects. Flu symptoms are not as insidious in onset or long lasting.

I make no assumptions about your intelligence, please do not make assumptions about mine. Vaccines do help, this one was rushed and is totally new with no possibility of knowing long term side affects. I have nothing against those who wish to take it, I will not. Nor will my child. I am simply making a decision I feel is best for us, and exercising my own judgement.

 

[kgwillison]

I make no assumptions about your intelligence, please do not make assumptions about mine. Vaccines do help, this one was rushed and is totally new with no possibility of knowing long term side affects. I have nothing against those who wish to take it, I will not. Nor will my child. I am simply making a decision I feel is best for us, and exercising my own judgement.

As long as you are willing to accept the limitations that might be placed on you and your child’s choices, fine. If you already home school your child, it won’t be an inconvenience to continue to do so. If you don’t travel for work or go into a corporate office, it likely won’t impact how you live. If you don’t go to Clemson games in person, no big deal.

On the other hand ...

 

[jxmas1175]

As long as you are willing to accept the limitations that might be placed on you and your child’s choices, fine. If you already home school your child, it won’t be an inconvenience to continue to do so. If you don’t travel for work or go into a corporate office, it likely won’t impact how you live. If you don’t go to Clemson games in person, no big deal.

On the other hand ...

I am willing to accept the risk of not taking the vaccine, and willing to accept the consequences. I have thought long and hard, prayed over it, done as much research as I can on both of the new vaccines in question and made the decision not to take either of these two. My wife has done the same, we have talked at length, and are in agreement. It seems to me there will be others who will not take the vaccine for one reason or another the same as myself. To extensively restrict civil liberties based solely on whether or not one took a vaccine seems draconian to me. But hey, I am sure the court system will figure that out.

 

[Casa_del_Tigre]

You follow the data first.

#1 you make sure one of the doctors isn't an idiot like Scott Atlas or Christopher Duntsch and they follow and interpret the data in a meaningful way.

#2 get a 3rd doctor.

Instead we get keyboard warriors who think they know how to interpret data and feel smart combining it with "common sense" while lacking the self awareness to know they know nothing. Add to that a scenario where the President has not only made it acceptable, but encourages distrusting experts, you end up with half the posters on this board.

You never explained how you determined which expert you believe and which one is an idiot. What makes Scott atlas an idiot?

I can easily argue that WHO and CDC have been wrong at every step including the original predictive models. How long does the experts have to be wrong before you decide to question them?

I can only relate to economics as it’s what I’m most trained in, but the economics taught to me by Clemson is rejected by both political parties now. Does this mean what Clemson taught is wrong

 

[Casa_del_Tigre]

Are you talking the difference between an epidemiologist’s opinion and a chiropractor? Both are Doctors, yes. But one opinion should carry a lot more weight than the other.

Not at all. I’m saying what happens when 2 epidemiologist have different opinions...

same when 2 different economist, or surgeons, or any other speciality field having varying opinions.

since medical doctors know everything now. Why hasn’t the US government been able to address obesity?

 

[CoffeeIsForClosers]

Not at all. I’m saying what happens when 2 epidemiologist have different opinions...

same when 2 different economist, or surgeons, or any other speciality field having varying opinions.

since medical doctors know everything now. Why hasn’t the US government been able to address obesity?

Well then I'd get the opinion of a large number (more than 2) of them and go with the overwhelming opinion.

 

[Casa_del_Tigre]

Well then I'd get the opinion of a large number (more than 2) of them and go with the overwhelming opinion.

So consensus... nothing wrong with that. You’ll be correct more times than not, but there will be times you blindly stand in support that earth is in the center of the universe...

I tend to read the data and then see if the claims make sense based on the data. I have a few academia people I trust and go to them for sources they trust.

I don’t have any issue with someone thinking something as long as they understand why they feel that way. I have my reasons, I could be wrong, but I have my reasons as to why I think the way I do. Hopefully post trump will bring back independent thought and actual discussions.

 

[CoffeeIsForClosers]

So consensus... nothing wrong with that. You’ll be correct more times than not, but there will be times you blindly stand in support that earth is in the center of the universe...

I tend to read the data and then see if the claims make sense based on the data. I have a few academia people I trust and go to them for sources they trust.

I don’t have any issue with someone thinking something as long as they understand why they feel that way. I have my reasons, I could be wrong, but I have my reasons as to why I think the way I do. Hopefully post trump will bring back independent thought and actual discussions.

You can only make a good decision based on all the available evidence at that time. You can't assume people are always wrong because a few educated opinions in the past were. Would you refuse cancer treatment because doctors in the past used leaches to treat infection? Science/medicine are constantly evolving fields. Always testing their previously held truths. That's what makes them work.

Agree....the precise moment politics got involved in this debate was the moment we all should have made sure we were ignoring anyone in an elected office (or running for) in front of a microphone talking about medical issues.

 

[saber8689]

I make no assumptions about your intelligence, please do not make assumptions about mine. Vaccines do help, this one was rushed and is totally new with no possibility of knowing long term side affects. I have nothing against those who wish to take it, I will not. Nor will my child. I am simply making a decision I feel is best for us, and exercising my own judgement.

You never explained how you determined which expert you believe and which one is an idiot. What makes Scott atlas an idiot?

I can easily argue that WHO and CDC have been wrong at every step including the original predictive models. How long does the experts have to be wrong before you decide to question them?

I can only relate to economics as it’s what I’m most trained in, but the economics taught to me by Clemson is rejected by both political parties now. Does this mean what Clemson taught is wrong

"Questioning" experts is something you should always do. Science, by its very nature, should always be scrutinized. But, arguments should also be reasonable. There are stupid arguments.

Scott Atlas shouts incendiary and unreasonable information to the public and has been disavowed by everyone of his colleagues:

"Stanford to forcefully disavow Atlas’s actions, saying he’s used his credentials to promote dangerous falsehoods and behaviors. Atlas’s “disdain for established medical knowledge violates medical ethics defined by the American Medical Association,” the resolution says. Atlas's “behavior is anathema to our community, our values, and our belief that we should use knowledge for good.”

The predictive models had uncertainty built into them and were NEVER supposed to be 100% accurate. People still watch weather forecasts even though they are sometimes wrong. You don't see reasonable people choosing to believe a hurricane about to his the US is fake news because weather has been wrong before...

 

[saber8689]

I don’t have any issue with someone thinking something as long as they understand why they feel that way. I have my reasons, I could be wrong, but I have my reasons as to why I think the way I do. Hopefully post trump will bring back independent thought and actual discussions.

I agree with this, but do you honestly believe other people share your self awareness??

 

[saber8689]

I make no assumptions about your intelligence, please do not make assumptions about mine. Vaccines do help, this one was rushed and is totally new with no possibility of knowing long term side affects. I have nothing against those who wish to take it, I will not. Nor will my child. I am simply making a decision I feel is best for us, and exercising my own judgement.

I don't need to assume anything about your intelligence. You compared COVID to influenza. You compared the covid vaccine to getting the flu vaccine. You did this after 10 months of a virus that we CLEARLY know is much worse and vastly different than the flu. That shows your lack of knowledge about the subject.

As I said, its fine to not take the vaccine because you are worried about the long term side effects, but immediately bringing up the flu vaccine as a comparison means that you have alternative reasons that are illogical.

 

[Casa_del_Tigre]

I agree with this, but do you honestly believe other people share your self awareness??

I hope everyone takes tome to research things that impact their life. I doubt that’s the case though.

 

[wallaceb]

You’re a sheep. You embrace tyranny because you are scared.

You're an idiot. You embrace stupidity because you are a cretin.

 

[One Fingerd Fist]

You're an idiot. You embrace stupidity because you are a cretin.

Wear your mask, demon. Hide your face.

 

[wallaceb]

Wear your mask, demon. Hide your face.

Wear your hat, fool.

 

[One Fingerd Fist]

Wear your hat, fool.

You suck at the teat of fools. Your conspiracy will be shown the light. May the world remember your transgressions.

 

[jxmas1175]

I don't need to assume anything about your intelligence. You compared COVID to influenza. You compared the covid vaccine to getting the flu vaccine. You did this after 10 months of a virus that we CLEARLY know is much worse and vastly different than the flu. That shows your lack of knowledge about the subject.

As I said, its fine to not take the vaccine because you are worried about the long term side effects, but immediately bringing up the flu vaccine as a comparison means that you have alternative reasons that are illogical.

Yes I may be dumb, illogical and an idiot. I hope the vaccine is a wild success. But my concerns are valid to me. That is why me and my family will not take the vaccine.