To be fair, they did shoot and kill unarmed Ashli Babbit. Saw multiple libs here celebrating that.
J6
- Thread starter TigerGrowls
- Start date
So here's the difference between the libs on TI, and the rest of us:
People have stormed the capitol and have attempted to overthrow the US government.
The rest of us: "OMG! Look them up!!!!!"
Libs on this board: "Well wait a minute, are we talking about the traitors on Jan6, or the peaceful protesters from the Kavanaugh hearing?"
People have stormed the capitol and have attempted to overthrow the US government.
The rest of us: "OMG! Look them up!!!!!"
Libs on this board: "Well wait a minute, are we talking about the traitors on Jan6, or the peaceful protesters from the Kavanaugh hearing?"
And I guess somehow the point missed you completely."characterize it as a peaceful protest or tourist visit. Can you give me an example of that?"
Like this?
Jan 6th was nothing more than a Peaceful protest.J6
What is the title of the thread? J6. You don’t see how discussing the Jan 6 events in a thread about Jan 6 is relevant? You must be new to this board. We have had this democracy vs republic discussion a number of times already over the past 6 months. Every time the argument came from...clemson.forums.rivals.com
I fail to see where the narrative changed. It was a peaceful protest.J6
What is the title of the thread? J6. You don’t see how discussing the Jan 6 events in a thread about Jan 6 is relevant? You must be new to this board. We have had this democracy vs republic discussion a number of times already over the past 6 months. Every time the argument came from...
These comments were then lauded by other posters and there's variations of it.
Second of all, I didn't answer your questions, I addressed them instead:
" First, you do not need to have actual results to be convicted of a crime. You need two components: intent and some action even if it's ineffectual. If you plan on murdering your ex-wife (intent) and show up at her house, even if it's with a plastic spoon (action of going there and bringing something to cause injury), you are considered a criminal. The fact that some of these idiots were (thankfully) ineffective absolutely doesn't absolve them of a crime"
You are asking questions like why didn't shoot at Pence or why didn't they head directly for the right room as if this somehow diminished the severity of the situation. I will repeat again, if there is intent + action, there's a crime. That's the law, not my opinion. That day, there were a combinations of intent + actions:
- A few wanted to overthrow the government, planned it, went there, fought LE officers and broke into the building. They are being convicted of seditious conspiracy and will spend 20 years in prison. Intent + action = consequences
- A few stated by their own admission they wanted to kill Pence or Pelosi and broke into the building / some fought and hurt LE offices, they looked for these two. Intent + action = being detained and on trial
- A certain number wanted to disrupt the transition of power. They broke into the building, fought and hurt LE officers, caused a lockdown, evacuation of the elected officials, and delay of the electoral college vote count. Intent + action = being charged and on trial
- a larger number (there's 880 defendants) wanted to cause a disruption, had some levels of violence with LE officers (272 charged with assaulting an office), broke into the building, damaged property. Intent + action = being charged / convicted
- a large number tagged along, that's the people you guys are using as defense for the whole thing, the people just taking pictures inside, that is being used as a narrative shield and saying "see, they weren't dangerous people".
At the end of the day, you are asking questions that seem to be an attempt to try to disprove the severity of the intent and actions of a lot of people that day. Like I said, they could have protested anywhere, been heard, even the "peaceful protesters" had no business getting into this building.
I will lead you to water since you are struggling. Calling it a peaceful protest was done with intent. At least on my part. It was to show hypocrisy of 2 events being held to different standards, and it worked.
You see, time and time again dems have dismissed the deadly and violent riots of BLM and Antifa, calling them peaceful protests.
The point that was being made was that if Jan 6th was a violent riot, then the summer of 2020 was a violent riot on steroids that lasted for months.
Conversely, if the Antifa and BLM riots were peaceful protests, then Jan 6th was even more peaceful.
Now, why does that matter?
Because the left has gone after trump saying he incited a riot on Jan 6th. Which, mind you, Trump told the protestors to go home in peace on the same day.
Conversely, during the BLM and Antifa Riots, on June 17th of that summer, Kamala Harris encouraged them to continue on Stephen Colberts show. They raged on until finally 2 months later, under significant pressure, Kamala finally denounced them.
Now you are at the water, but I cannot make you drink.
Where are the investigations? Lives were lost, business destroyed, over 200 officers injured, billions in damage.
Specifically. Where is the investigation of Kamala Harris?
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We seem to be talking at each other....
The narrative from the republican side is that it was a peaceful protest and the rioters are victims, that they did nothing wrong. I even quoted a rep from the House... I get that YOU specifically aren't on the crazy bandwagon, I referred to you several times as being reasonable. But that is not the narrative from your team. From it was a peaceful protest, to it was just a tourist visit, to Marjorie Dumb Dumb claiming they are innocent political prisoners, to the Republican CPAC conference flashing a banner of sympathy "WE ARE ALL DOMESTIC TERRORISTS", are you saying that the narrative from your side hasn't been one to trivialize, defend and justify??? Your side keeps saying was happened was perfectly normal and acceptable, just a regular protest and an attack on them is an attack on all of us (free speech, etc.)
You saying this didn't happen?
When I hear shit like this, it infuriates me. Like I mentioned earlier, there were a spectrum of intents and actions that day, from very dangerous, to plain stupid. Does this mean that every one there was a rabid enemy of the state trying to commit mass murder? Of course not. But when the baseline we hear from MAGAs is that nothing happened (only had zip ties, etc.) , it's hard to not be forceful in trying to correct that viewpoint. Now, if you are asking me if I think thousands of people tried to overthrow the government that day, I don't believe that it was the case and the facts don't back up. But even mentioning the people that did end up getting convicted leads to people dismissing what happened. Why?
Like you said, out of the close to a thousand defendants, looks like several dozens are for very serious charges, a couple of hundred for assaulting law enforcement officers, and the rest probably less important charges. But close to a thousand defendants, 114 officers injured is not just a peaceful protest and behavior we should defend or like CPAP tried to associated with...
The BLM stuff wasn't peaceful at all. They caused billions of dollars of damages. The situation in Seattle with the "people controlled" neighborhood was the craziest shit I had seen in years.
But FWIW, looks like 17,000 people did get arrested.
"A June 22, 2020, article from The Washington Post tallied over 14,000 arrests made since May 27. The Hill reported over 17,000 arrests had been made in the first two weeks of protests."
Fact check: Thousands of Black Lives Matter protesters were arrested in 2020
Estimates put the cost of protest-related damage in 2020 at about $2 billion. But it's wrong to say protesters didn't face consequences.
www.usatoday.com
Now, I can't judge or assess whether they were punished appropriately. Maybe many got a slap on the wrist. But we can't really say that nothing happened either.
To me, being able to live in a reasonably safe environment is an absolute must and while I'm for people's right to express their opinions and thoughts, destroying lives and businesses is never the way to go. Any elected official that failed to ask for a return to at least a dialog / de-escalation failed their duty.
Look, I'm no fan of Kamala Harris, so I'm not going to waste any time at all defending her.
So then why are you only challenging pubs here about this? You freely admit that the pubs here aren't saying Jan6 was completely peaceful, but you still seem to want us to explain why SOME in our party may have claimed that.
Yet the libs here are in the very boat you want to put the pubs in, and you don't say a word to them. Why is that?
This is why I said you were a lib. I just had a back and forth with @dpic73 about what happened in 2018 when dems stormed the capitol. Notice he never said if those people should have been jailed. But he is the first to say ebbberybody on Jan6 should be jailed.
Why not mention that disconnect? Why are you only focused on a perceived disconnect on the right?
The only thing disconnected is your synapses. Why do we need to say they should have been jailed when they WERE jailed?
This is no longer a fight between Libs and Pubs - it's between Right and Wrong. ctseb is a conservative without a home now that the Trump wing has taken the party into the gutter. He isn't pro-lib but that isn't what should define him right now. He cares about decency, truth and democracy. You don't because if you can't win, you'd rather do away with democracy. Your disengagement from reality drives your beliefs and you can't even see that makes you the corrupt one - not the majority of us in the middle.
Apply that same logic to J6. You shouldn't need to say a word about J6 according to what you said, yet you cry about it nonstop. Every lib here does.
Take your own advice and STFU. Again, if libs only held themselves to the same standard they want to hold everyone else to, we'd all be fine.
There is NOTHING that compares to January 6th - nothing! No matter how badly you want both sides to be equally guilty, this isn't a both sides issue. There has never been a President as corrupt as Trump, there has never been a President who didn't accept defeat, and there has never been a President that criminally promoted a lie that the election was stolen and used all the powers afforded to him to try and overturn the results. No matter how much shit you throw against the wall about Hillary, Hunter and BLM riots, you can't make it the same. What he tried to do is worse than anything this country has ever seen and I get that it embarrasses you, but if you had any integrity and character, you'd walk away from him. The fact that you still ardently support him after everything you know says EVERYTHING about you. And it aint pretty.
Well, that's a fair question. And you are "essentially" correct. I disagree with the "only focused" and wish you would check my history and see and I have been pretty forceful in my rants against the concepts of entitlement (saying it crushed the human spirit) and wokeness. But you are correct in that a majority of my responses have been related to the Republican side.
The only explanation I can give you is psychological / emotional, so I don't know if it's a good one... I simply feel betrayed and without a home. For decades I have believed in hard work, meritocracy, freedom, principles, integrity, etc. And I do not feel represented by MAGA and Trump at all. They have pushed for a zero sum game when one side wins and the other has to lose. They have adopted the victimization / victimhood mindset from the left. And they have implemented an approach to politics that is just as divisive as what identity politics generated. There are some significant issues with what the left is doing. But I used to think we were the adults in the room. Instead, we have devolved into a hate filled bunch that hates half of Americans. So, I'm in a state of dissonance (my expectations of the values and behavior of the Republican party are very different from what I expect AOC to do....) and my disappointment has probably led me to not responding in threads in a fair and equitable manner. So, your point is fair and taken.
FWIW, @dpic73 has been lashing out recently but he is actually a pretty good guy with reasonable arguments if you are willing to engage earnestly, at least that's been my experience with him.
Finally, I actually know I'm part of the problem because I don't strive for de-escalation but we would accomplish so much more if both sides tried to understand the other side better.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
There’s no understanding to be had with insurrectionists.
It's funny, after Trump came along, I realized how I always felt like the Republican party before him never really felt like it was home. I never voted for a republican cause I loved them or their ideas or their accomplishments. It was always "Well at least they aren't a dem'.
And here's a funny story: During the 2016 primaries, I hated Trump worse than @dpic73 does now. What I *really* hated was how CNN was pushing him. Cause I knew they were pushing him cause they knew he would lose.
But over the months leading up to the 2016 election, I began to listen to Trump. I realized that even though he was an asshole, he was actually pushing a platform that I loved. He was fighting for all the issues that were close to my heart.
Someone had a great quote about Trump supporters and libs: "Libs take Trump literally, but not seriously. Trump supporters take Trump seriously, but not literally."
The people that hate Trump focus 100% of their attention on HIS actions. That's the wrong way to handle Trump IMO.
I focus 100% of my action on how PEOPLE RESPOND TO TRUMP.
You can learn SO much from watching how people react to what Trump says and does.
Trump is obsessed with Sun Tzu's The Art of War. One of the book's main teachings is the idea of moving your opponent into a position where he is vulnerable.
Trump is a master at this. He provokes his enemies into telling you what they are really up to.
So that's how I would advise everyone to handle Trump; Don't focus on what he says or does, focus on how the person or people he is attacking responds.
You'll begin to notice that the people he's attacking almost always act like they are guilty. That's the tell.
At least you are getting closer to admitting the truth with "looks like several dozens are for very serious charges". Yes, there are some people on the pub side whose characterization of the events that day are certainly not based in reality, but I do not think they are they majority. There are very few people I have seen refer to it as a peaceful protest. It is just patently false that that is the view of the majority of republicans. On the other side, there are just as many dems whose characterization of the events are equally moronic and not based in reality. You have have dem house members saying Trump, people in his cabinet, and other pub reps were providing intel and support to some imaginary mass group in a coordinated effort to overthrow the govt. This is no less detached from reality than anything a republican has said. The dem narrative is that the vast majority of the people there were attempting some kind of govt takeover and effort to kill the vp and that it was some type of coordinated event to do so. Even you posing questions like "Does this mean that every one there was a rabid enemy of the state trying to commit mass murder? Of course not." which insinuates that the even if was not ALL it was most, when the fact is there is zero evidence there was even ONE person there with that intention. It is complete and utter hyperbole constantly coming from the dem side.
We know this is complete bs because as you pointed out, there are very few people who are even being charged with anything that remotely approaches this characterization. I am no less frustrated at the dem narrative that is complete fantasy than you are with the peaceful protest narrative. If there had been even a or even a few dozen people there that intended to do what dems claim the masses wanted to do we would have seen serious bloodshed and who knows how many fatalities. The fact is the only person that died at the capitol that day was a protestor/rioter. We have seen numerous times what one determined individual can do when they only want death and destruction. The assertion that there were even 10 people there that intended anything like that seems almost impossible given what one person can do and what actually happened(and did not happen) that day.
Should I put up some BLM and Antifa organization quotes/beliefs and then question you about every dem that has offered support or defense of those organizations? Yes, that CPAC sign is in poor taste, imo. However, it was trying to make the same point I am- which is that the dem narrative of masses of domestic terrorist on J6 is ridiculous hyperbole and completely detached from reality and belies the actual events that took place.
I understand this feeling. As a matter of fact, I think I probably feel it more so. I certainly am not a trump/maga supporter. I also am not a supporter of the establishment republicans. I have really felt lost since Boehner followed by Ryan repeatedly stood up and said all the right things, yet repeatedly voted in direct contradiction to their words. My main issue is fiscal responsibility. The vast majority of the Republican party has agreed to spending like a drunken sailor for years even when they had control of the house, senate, or even both. I honestly believe if the establishment could control his mouth, they would be cheering trump on bc he is just as willing to endlessly take money from the citizens of this country and throw it away. The vast majority of the republican party has left me, but I am now in the camp that primarily votes for the lesser of evils.
Comments like this are why I don't waste my time trying to argue Trump with anyone.
All I will say is, you are making yourself miserable over stuff that doesn't exist. 5 years from now you'll understand.
There is no denying both of them are fiscally irresponsible. I like a lot of what trump did. I like America first, border control, etc. However, if you are going to spend Trillions of dollars we don't need to spend, all the other is secondary for me.
This is actually one of the few complaints against Trump that I understand. Trump is NOT a fiscal conservative. He is a businessman, his philosophy is you gotta spend money to make money.
But the establishment won't cheer Trump until he's dead. That was what my you'll understand why in 5 years comment was about.
Almost everyone here will have a totally different view of Trump when the story is finally written. I know what's coming so that's why I don't waste my time trying to argue with people that don't want to hear what I have to say.
What's coming will arrive whether anyone believes in it or not.
I only have two complaints against trump. One, he spends too much $$$ - which is a deal breaker for me if I have another option. The second is really two related problems. Primarily it is that he is a narcissistic ass who can't keep his mouth shut and acts/talks like a 2nd grade playground bully rather than an adult. Related to this is that he is/was too stupid to realize that if he could have just talked in just a little more presidential manner he would be the potus today and we would not be in the shit show we are currently in. He could have and should have easily won the last election.
So you believe Hiden received 81 million legal votes?
I feel pretty sure there was some voter fraud. HOWEVER, Trump could have blown him away if he just appeared to be a better person. Just get in front of the microphone and say things in an adult manner. Reagan did not back down to anyone. He came off as serious and even demanding when he wanted to, but he did not act and talk like an elementary school bully. Trump lost bc enough people who voted for him in 2016 did not vote for him in 2020 bc they basically thought he was mean. It had nothing to do with policy and everything to do with personality.
He continually gave the media ammunition to promote the idea he was just a bad person- which he probably is. It is fine to criticize people and point out terrible policy, and even point out terrible things they have done, even. All he had to do was be slightly less abrasive, maybe don't call a woman "horseface" on national tv - little things like that. He was constantly saying stupid things and making fun of people. That is why he lost. I know and know of multiple people, mostly women but some men also, who voted for him in 2016 but did not vote for him in 2020 and will not vote for him again simply due to his personality.
Can you imagine Biden standing up to the podium and answering questions from the media for hours at a time?? The whole DJT was too mean is just a bunch of garbage. Did people vote against him because of that, absolutely. I’m not buying that is the reason he “lost”. The media played a huge role in the rigged election.
The media did paly a role in that they perpetuated the notion that he was some type of racist evil person. He tried his best to prove them right with his constant sophomoric personal attacks on people. The media is absolutely in the bed wit the dem party- particularly bc most of them are actually in the dem party. That is even more reason he should have tried to control his mouth in public. You know they are just looking for something to use against you. How stupid do you have to be to continually give them exactly what they are looking for? How many reports/articles/etc were there about Trump calling people names or making fun of people? Some people are just not going to vote someone they think is not a good person. I don't agree with this or think it is logical, but it is accurate.
If it is all about rigged elections, how did he win in 2016? Why did they not cheat then?
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
It was the establishment uniparty steal of 2020. They all colluded to plan, execute and then coverup the steal of the presidency from the american citizens.
For me, the fact that he didn’t speak in a “Presidential” manner was the appeal. My entire life I wanted a President who spoke his mind, and was unafraid of the media. A President who didn’t sheepishly back down every time the race card (or insert other card) got played. A President who said what he meant, and meant what he said.
I was tired of the political smoke being blown up everyones ass. Presidents/politicians who said nice things, and then stabbed everyone in the back behind closed doors. In essence, I was tired of the very thing you’re describing. Someone who spoke “more presidential”. That term makes me think of political BS artist.
Like this guy.
No offense but that's some of the dumbest horseshit I've ever heard. So you think Trump being a 'better person' is stronger than dem cheating?
Dude. Please think about what you are saying. Cheating means the outcome is not what the voters voted on. The quality or perceived quality of the opponent that was cheated is irrelevant.
If you can look at the 2020 election, admit to yourself that the dems cheated, but then say 'But we need to nominate more likeable candidates to win', then I can't talk to you about this topic.
Anyone have info on the average jail term for the insurrectionists who attempted to overthrow the US government during the Kavanaugh hearings? @dpic73?
Ray Epps and Baked Alaska Seen Together in Video from November 2020 Two Months Before Jan. 6
A new video is making the rounds this week of Ray Epps and Baked Alaska together at an event in Arizona two months before the January 6 protests. Here is Tim Gionet aka Baked Alaska hanging out with Ray Epps in November 2020, 2 months prior to Jan 6th. pic.twitter.com/aZM24FZ2iE — Current Revolt...
www.thegatewaypundit.com
This is factual. These people are absolutely Soviet style political prisoners in the United States of America and sadly the vast majority do not appear to even give a shit about it.
The kangaroo j6 committee has basically run out of time. Looks like they will publish a fantasy report and probably send a referral to the DOJ to arrest Trump for high treason.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
Chairman of Jan 6 Select (Witch Hunt) Committee Withdraws Subpeona Against Verizon For Mike Lindell’s Phone Records After He Sues Nancy Pelosi
100 Percent Fed Up exclusive – Benny Thompson, chairman of the Jan 6 (Witch Hunt) Committee, has officially withdrawn the subpoena request on behalf of the committee for Mike Lindell’s phone records after he filed a lawsuit against the unpopular Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. We spoke with...
www.thegatewaypundit.com
The DC gestapo is still arresting people from J6.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
What Exactly is the DOJ Proving With This Newest Wave of Jan. 6 Arrests? | The Gateway Pundit | by American Gulag
Mainstream media has bombarded Americans with footage depicting a so-called “insurrection” or “riot” on Jan. 6. However, the 72 newest cases show a much different picture.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
“not the majority of us in the middle”
The dishonesty and misrepresentation knows no bounds. Unbelievable… Wait, no, it’s 100% believable
Pretty good post here. I’m in the same boat, I hated the man my entire life. Didn’t vote in 2016 because I couldn’t hold my nose long enough to vote for either of the two. But his ZFG demeanor and ability to highlight and put corruption in DC on full blast got me thinking he was going to fix a lot of problems and I started pulling for him
At this point it’s obvious though that the problems are unfixable and the country is what it is, a failed state. Carlin was right, it really is just a big club, and we ain’t in it. And maybe DJT is one of the good old boys
Let the whole thing burn, it’s never coming back
Are you trying to say that racist, homophobes like you are closer to the middle than I am? Swastika flashing, Confederate flag-waving rednecks may be common in your little red bubble, but I assure you they don't represent the majority.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
ln the history of trolling, not a single person has been duped harder than you. It’s absolutely hilarious
Yeah, I’m 1000x’s closer to the middle than you are. You’re a legitimate zealot, completely partisan and out of touch with reality. Nothing even close to the middle
