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I'm pretty sure I have made it clear and many Dr's have that Covid is far more likely the cause than any vaccine. The infection attacks the venous and arterial system, including post recovery. It causes massive metabolic issues in many who have recovered and can continue to cause havoc for years the data has shown. It causes massive inflammation in the body, and again it can last for a long time post recovery. With this being a novel virus, it hit the majority of the population in less than 18 months, which leads to a much larger percentage of people with these issues than a typical illness. Hell, it was so transmissible it nearly wiped out the flu for a whole year. This was all over the world, not just in the US. And yes, we were still testing for it. The data is available as it always has been on state and government public health sites.

Plus, you can get it, not know you have it, and still have issues. You can get it multiple times a year due to how many mutations were occuring because of the rapid spread, especially if you were not vaccinated and in some cases even if you were. I know many doctors who treated patients who had it multiple times, even with PPE on. It's like a really good offense in the NFL, you can slow them down but it's almost impossible to stop.

All of this data is out there. The cardiovascular issues post recovery are probably the worst. Many have arrhythmias they never had before being infected. The crazy thing is this isn't unique to Covid. Many viruses and even bacterial infections due very similar things.

My father died of an extremely rare clotting disorder he had no idea he had called antiphospholipid syndrome or APS. He had the catastrophic version where you have clots in four or more different organs at the same time and onset is extremely rapid. His clotting event was likely triggered by an infection post recovery. It's one of the huge reasons I learned so much about Covid and became a community advocate, especially in regard to transparency of the testing, hospital, and death data. In the beginning, we were getting none of that and I had to track it myself and demand that SCDHEC get their shit together. Because hell, if I could do it, they sure as hell could.

With all of that being said, I'm sure the vaccine has caused some of the events, as it was always a known risk. However, all of the data points to it being much safer than getting Covid, which means the benefits outweighed the risk. One thing this has made me understand is there are so many people who simply don't understand how science works and surely didn't pay enough attention in science class. Science is about asking questions though, so I get it. However, the data set is pretty clear and will only get clearer the further we are out from it. Maybe it will change, but I wouldn't bet on it. The way mRNA vaccines work, long term effects are just highly unlikely.
Thanks for sharing. Are you in the healthcare field? I’m no expert, but what you lay out seems reasonable. Regarding vaccines, I know a Lot of companies got stonewalled by the FDA with their vaccines that were reliable effective vaccines, a couple which we already had 2 plus years data on because they were in late stage trials as a hepatitis vaccine.
 
Do i need to be in a certain profession to see athletes collapsing on the field? Do i need to be in a profession to listen to doctors who say there are heart related side effects from the vaccine? Do i need to be in a certain profession to call for debate and research?

You are a teacher. No offense, i respect teachers, but you are no more qualified than i am. I know plenty of doctors too.

Still not worth discussing yet here you are discussing again. Maybe it is worth discussing after all?
you are the shittiest statistician of all time if you think seeing people get sick means there is an uptick in the case rate. or maybe you know that and you're being intentionally obtuse for fun?

you listen to the one dentist who recommends not brushing your teeth when 9 others say to use crest. the other 9 dentists might not love crest, but they prefer that to nothing because, ya know there is like a 3x chance to have heart issues from getting COVID vs the vaccine. but as a statistician i guess you knew that already too.
 
Thanks for sharing. Are you in the healthcare field? I’m no expert, but what you lay out seems reasonable. Regarding vaccines, I know a Lot of companies got stonewalled by the FDA with their vaccines that were reliable effective vaccines, a couple which we already had 2 plus years data on because they were in late stage trials as a hepatitis vaccine.
My wife is in healthcare. Sounds crazy, but when my Dad died so quickly (23 days in the hospital in excruciating pain) he was misdiagnosed for about 15 days of that. He was 68 and in good health. They thought he had endocarditis, which is a bacterial infection on the leaflet of the heart valve that causes vegetation (weird term but that's what they call it) to break off and go to the brain and causes strokes. That is usually treated with very aggressive IV Antibacterials 2 to 3 times a day, which was pointless and not treating anything. Turns out it was blood clots on the leaflets which is called Libman-Sacks Endocarditis. He also had mild clotting in his legs a month earlier. Somehow no one put two and two together at the hospital and he went downhill fast, including his legs being completely occluded which was causing massive amounts of pain.

We demanded a transfer to another hospital which they reluctantly did and a Med Student at the next ER diagnosed him in less than 24 hours. Like I said, APS is extremely rare and a catastrophic (CAPS) event is even more rare. The mortality even if they know you have CAPS is 70% to 80%, so it's likely it would have been an uphill battle either way. When I found out the diagnosis, I buried myself in medical journal studies to see what we were dealing with. It was so clear looking at the literature that's what he had from the start and he should have been put on extremely aggressive anticoagulants day one a long with white and red blood cell infusions

I vowed that I'd never not be able to advocate for a family member again. I read medical journals quite often and usually when I go to the doctor with family or even for myself I'm asked if I'm in the field. You could say maybe I missed my calling, but I hated school. Turns out I had undiagnosed ADHD so it made sense. But when I hyperfocus on something, I can tune everything out.

If I don't know a word while reading a journal, I look it up. This happens quite often now as my wife has a congenital kidney disorder that is causing all kinds of metabolic issues and heart arrhythmias. She's had tachycardia since our bout with Covid in 2020, but now she's having issues with electrolyte imbalances that have put her in the hospital twice with low potassium. Those journals are by far the hardest to read, so if you go to a nephrologist or know one, they are the smartest of the smart. It's possible that Covid just really exacerbated her problem with her kidneys and now it's affecting her heart. It's a tough comorbidity, which Covid can really mess with.

I know this is a very long winded response to your question, but I felt I needed to explain it some because I'm just a guy who has a high school diploma who lost his Dad to a rare disease. Oh, and come to find out Covid is also triggering APS in individuals. I read a lot of medical journals on Covid and I crazily do it for fun. I'm also incredibly curious how comorbidities going forward from Covid progress. What is happening now was part of my fear and hypothesis once we found out it was more of a vascular virus than just a respiratory one. To say this isn't necessarily surprising to many Dr's in the field is zn understatement. Comorbidities from the recovered and it's strain on our healthcare field was always a concern, especially with a novel virus that we didn't know anything about the aftereffects.
 
you are the shittiest statistician of all time if you think seeing people get sick means there is an uptick in the case rate. or maybe you know that and you're being intentionally obtuse for fun?

you listen to the one dentist who recommends not brushing your teeth when 9 others say to use crest. the other 9 dentists might not love crest, but they prefer that to nothing because, ya know there is like a 3x chance to have heart issues from getting COVID vs the vaccine. but as a statistician i guess you knew that already too.

I'm done with him. He's an absolute idiot, and a liar. Just not worth talking to him.
 
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My wife is in healthcare. Sounds crazy, but when my Dad died so quickly (23 days in the hospital in excruciating pain) he was misdiagnosed for about 15 days of that. He was 68 and in good health. They thought he had endocarditis, which is a bacterial infection on the leaflet of the heart valve that causes vegetation (weird term but that's what they call it) to break off and go to the brain and causes strokes. That is usually treated with very aggressive IV Antibacterials 2 to 3 times a day, which was pointless and not treating anything. Turns out it was blood clots on the leaflets which is called Libman-Sacks Endocarditis. He also had mild clotting in his legs a month earlier. Somehow no one put two and two together at the hospital and he went downhill fast, including his legs being completely occluded which was causing massive amounts of pain.

We demanded a transfer to another hospital which they reluctantly did and a Med Student at the next ER diagnosed him in less than 24 hours. Like I said, APS is extremely rare and a catastrophic (CAPS) event is even more rare. The mortality even if they know you have CAPS is 70% to 80%, so it's likely it would have been an uphill battle either way. When I found out the diagnosis, I buried myself in medical journal studies to see what we were dealing with. It was so clear looking at the literature that's what he had from the start and he should have been put on extremely aggressive anticoagulants day one a long with white and red blood cell infusions

I vowed that I'd never not be able to advocate for a family member again. I read medical journals quite often and usually when I go to the doctor with family or even for myself I'm asked if I'm in the field. You could say maybe I missed my calling, but I hated school. Turns out I had undiagnosed ADHD so it made sense. But when I hyperfocus on something, I can tune everything out.

If I don't know a word while reading a journal, I look it up. This happens quite often now as my wife has a congenital kidney disorder that is causing all kinds of metabolic issues and heart arrhythmias. She's had tachycardia since our bout with Covid in 2020, but now she's having issues with electrolyte imbalances that have put her in the hospital twice with low potassium. Those journals are by far the hardest to read, so if you go to a nephrologist or know one, they are the smartest of the smart. It's possible that Covid just really exacerbated her problem with her kidneys and now it's affecting her heart. It's a tough comorbidity, which Covid can really mess with.

I know this is a very long winded response to your question, but I felt I needed to explain it some because I'm just a guy who has a high school diploma who lost his Dad to a rare disease. Oh, and come to find out Covid is also triggering APS in individuals. I read a lot of medical journals on Covid and I crazily do it for fun. I'm also incredibly curious how comorbidities going forward from Covid progress. What is happening now was part of my fear and hypothesis once we found out it was more of a vascular virus than just a respiratory one. To say this isn't necessarily surprising to many Dr's in the field is zn understatement. Comorbidities from the recovered and it's strain on our healthcare field was always a concern, especially with a novel virus that we didn't know anything about the aftereffects.

I work very close to Prisma in Greenville and our office sees many of their Doctors and Nurses. I remember during the start of Covid when they started telling me about the "thick blood" and clots. They were all talking about that being more of an issue than the respiratory issues.
 
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My wife is in healthcare. Sounds crazy, but when my Dad died so quickly (23 days in the hospital in excruciating pain) he was misdiagnosed for about 15 days of that. He was 68 and in good health. They thought he had endocarditis, which is a bacterial infection on the leaflet of the heart valve that causes vegetation (weird term but that's what they call it) to break off and go to the brain and causes strokes. That is usually treated with very aggressive IV Antibacterials 2 to 3 times a day, which was pointless and not treating anything. Turns out it was blood clots on the leaflets which is called Libman-Sacks Endocarditis. He also had mild clotting in his legs a month earlier. Somehow no one put two and two together at the hospital and he went downhill fast, including his legs being completely occluded which was causing massive amounts of pain.

We demanded a transfer to another hospital which they reluctantly did and a Med Student at the next ER diagnosed him in less than 24 hours. Like I said, APS is extremely rare and a catastrophic (CAPS) event is even more rare. The mortality even if they know you have CAPS is 70% to 80%, so it's likely it would have been an uphill battle either way. When I found out the diagnosis, I buried myself in medical journal studies to see what we were dealing with. It was so clear looking at the literature that's what he had from the start and he should have been put on extremely aggressive anticoagulants day one a long with white and red blood cell infusions

I vowed that I'd never not be able to advocate for a family member again. I read medical journals quite often and usually when I go to the doctor with family or even for myself I'm asked if I'm in the field. You could say maybe I missed my calling, but I hated school. Turns out I had undiagnosed ADHD so it made sense. But when I hyperfocus on something, I can tune everything out.

If I don't know a word while reading a journal, I look it up. This happens quite often now as my wife has a congenital kidney disorder that is causing all kinds of metabolic issues and heart arrhythmias. She's had tachycardia since our bout with Covid in 2020, but now she's having issues with electrolyte imbalances that have put her in the hospital twice with low potassium. Those journals are by far the hardest to read, so if you go to a nephrologist or know one, they are the smartest of the smart. It's possible that Covid just really exacerbated her problem with her kidneys and now it's affecting her heart. It's a tough comorbidity, which Covid can really mess with.

I know this is a very long winded response to your question, but I felt I needed to explain it some because I'm just a guy who has a high school diploma who lost his Dad to a rare disease. Oh, and come to find out Covid is also triggering APS in individuals. I read a lot of medical journals on Covid and I crazily do it for fun. I'm also incredibly curious how comorbidities going forward from Covid progress. What is happening now was part of my fear and hypothesis once we found out it was more of a vascular virus than just a respiratory one. To say this isn't necessarily surprising to many Dr's in the field is zn understatement. Comorbidities from the recovered and it's strain on our healthcare field was always a concern, especially with a novel virus that we didn't know anything about the aftereffects.
Thanks for sharing, sorry to hear you lost your dad. I’m similar in that I have no formal medical training other than cpr and a little paramedic stuff from years ago. I just find it fascinating and like you have seen first hand what being somewhat versed in whatever ailment you are confronting can make in the eventual care and treatment you get. I love vitamins and supplementation, but I hate when people advocate that as a substitute for proven treatments. Going forward it will be interesting to see what they come up with to combat this stuff.
 
I'm pretty sure I have made it clear and many Dr's have that Covid is far more likely the cause than any vaccine. The infection attacks the venous and arterial system, including post recovery. It causes massive metabolic issues in many who have recovered and can continue to cause havoc for years the data has shown. It causes massive inflammation in the body, and again it can last for a long time post recovery. With this being a novel virus, it hit the majority of the population in less than 18 months, which leads to a much larger percentage of people with these issues than a typical illness. Hell, it was so transmissible it nearly wiped out the flu for a whole year. This was all over the world, not just in the US. And yes, we were still testing for it. The data is available as it always has been on state and government public health sites.

Plus, you can get it, not know you have it, and still have issues. You can get it multiple times a year due to how many mutations were occuring because of the rapid spread, especially if you were not vaccinated and in some cases even if you were. I know many doctors who treated patients who had it multiple times, even with PPE on. It's like a really good offense in the NFL, you can slow them down but it's almost impossible to stop.

All of this data is out there. The cardiovascular issues post recovery are probably the worst. Many have arrhythmias they never had before being infected. The crazy thing is this isn't unique to Covid. Many viruses and even bacterial infections due very similar things.

My father died of an extremely rare clotting disorder he had no idea he had called antiphospholipid syndrome or APS. He had the catastrophic version where you have clots in four or more different organs at the same time and onset is extremely rapid. His clotting event was likely triggered by an infection post recovery. It's one of the huge reasons I learned so much about Covid and became a community advocate, especially in regard to transparency of the testing, hospital, and death data. In the beginning, we were getting none of that and I had to track it myself and demand that SCDHEC get their shit together. Because hell, if I could do it, they sure as hell could.

With all of that being said, I'm sure the vaccine has caused some of the events, as it was always a known risk. However, all of the data points to it being much safer than getting Covid, which means the benefits outweighed the risk. One thing this has made me understand is there are so many people who simply don't understand how science works and surely didn't pay enough attention in science class. Science is about asking questions though, so I get it. However, the data set is pretty clear and will only get clearer the further we are out from it. Maybe it will change, but I wouldn't bet on it. The way mRNA vaccines work, long term effects are just highly unlikely.
Posting this for the 2nd time. Study says no increase in heart related ailments for unvaccinated people that got covid and recovered naturally.

 
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Posting this for the 2nd time. Study says no increase in heart related ailments for unvaccinated people that got covid and recovered naturally.

It's also the second time I've ignored it because it's not a good study. Kyle Becker is also an extremely biased messenger. For this one study their are multiple that do show it.
 
Posting this for the 2nd time. Study says no increase in heart related ailments for unvaccinated people that got covid and recovered naturally.

This study has been torn to shreds as misleading by many sources also.

 
It's also the second time I've ignored it because it's not a good study. Kyle Becker is also an extremely biased messenger. For this one study their are multiple that do show it.
There are a lot with professional credentials that disagree and that's a fact. Becker is basically just a reporter.
 
Says the guy who can't admit he was wrong. It's not talking shitz it's stating facts.
When I unequivocally proved you wrong related to Trump cooperating with NARA and DOJ on the documents issue you refused to even acknowledge it and proceeded to spew me bs.
 
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When I unequivocally proved you wrong related to Trump cooperating with NARA and DOJ on the documents issue you refused to even acknowledge it and proceeded to spew me bs.

The methods in that study have been brought into question and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the journal retracts it for that reason. Plus it doesn't line up with studies that have been done for longer, and were done on bigger and more diverse populations. Studies that came out after that one. However, I wouldn't expect you to understand the complexities of journals and peer reviewed research, including impact scores and the difference between said journals.
 
The methods in that study have been brought into question and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the journal retracts it for that reason. Plus it doesn't line up with studies that have been done for longer, and were done on bigger and more diverse populations. Studies that came out after that one. However, I wouldn't expect you to understand the complexities of journals and peer reviewed research, including impact scores and the difference between said journals.
LOL! Thanks for the verbal shot. I will take that over the clot shot.
 
LOL! Thanks for the verbal shot. I will take that over the clot shot.
Oh, it's literally not a shot. I don't expect you to get it or even attempt to aquire the knowledge needed to get it. You've shown over and over again that you are incredibly biased, gullible, and post conspiracy nonsense on this board constantly that isn't grounded in reality.
 
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Oh, it's literally not a shot. I don't expect you to get it or even attempt to aquire the knowledge needed to get it. You've shown over and over again that you are incredibly biased, gullible, and post conspiracy nonsense on this board constantly that isn't grounded in reality.
I am glad you love yourself. I think you are wrong anyway.
 
lied about masks
lied about covid tests
lied about covid deaths
lied about vaccine efficacy
lied about vaccine side effects
lied about vaccine testing
lied about covid origin

refused to answer any legitimate questions and demanded any challenges to their opinions be censored from all media platforms by declaring that to be misinformation.

somehow the media declares the only acceptable truth is from the cdc/nih/fauci disciples/pharma and there are still muppets who believe them. its unbelievable, but those morons better be able to suck abe lincoln off the penny because their brain ain't getting em anywhere in life.
 
you are the shittiest statistician of all time if you think seeing people get sick means there is an uptick in the case rate. or maybe you know that and you're being intentionally obtuse for fun?

you listen to the one dentist who recommends not brushing your teeth when 9 others say to use crest. the other 9 dentists might not love crest, but they prefer that to nothing because, ya know there is like a 3x chance to have heart issues from getting COVID vs the vaccine. but as a statistician i guess you knew that already too.
Gen Z?

 
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Nothing to see here. Totally within statistical norms

I've already explained this in the thread multiple times. Covid is far more likely the cause. In fact, I know most don't care or follow it anymore, but we are in the middle of a surge according the waste water data and hospital testing. So you know, maybe, just maybe that has something to do with it. Just saying, for like the millionth time in this post.
 
I've already explained this in the thread multiple times. Covid is far more likely the cause. In fact, I know most don't care or follow it anymore, but we are in the middle of a surge according the waste water data and hospital testing. So you know, maybe, just maybe that has something to do with it. Just saying, for like the millionth time in this post.
The education and dare I say common sense levels in our country are embarrassing. Across the board. Not dominated by one side. The lack of reading comprehension is mind blowing. The ability to work through basic words and understanding is just sad. Some of these conversations are almost funny if not so sad.
 
I've already explained this in the thread multiple times. Covid is far more likely the cause. In fact, I know most don't care or follow it anymore, but we are in the middle of a surge according the waste water data and hospital testing. So you know, maybe, just maybe that has something to do with it. Just saying, for like the millionth time in this post.

He doesn't want to know the truth. He's so dug in on "the vax" being the root of all evil that he isn't open to facts.
 
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The education and dare I say common sense levels in our country are embarrassing. Across the board. Not dominated by one side. The lack of reading comprehension is mind blowing. The ability to work through basic words and understanding is just sad. Some of these conversations are almost funny if not so sad.

It's so frustrating. You can't actually debate because folks are so dug in, and getting "facts" that are slanted to support their argument from their personal echo chanbers. Exhibit A is in this thread.
 
It's so frustrating. You can't actually debate because folks are so dug in, and getting "facts" that are slanted to support their argument from their personal echo chanbers. Exhibit A is in this thread.
The info supports the fact that covid is most likely the cause. Vacinnated or not, if you've had covid, diagnosed or not, and you're still here, you will be subject to these things. They are finding this out more and more daily. Instead of adjusting their beliefs, everything is a conspiracy. Covid is still the bad guy at the end of the day.

Again. I still stand by the fact that there were far too many young athletes having heart issues pre-covid. But as someone stated earlier in the group, statistically speaking, African-American male athletes were already disproportionately impacted with heart issues. I'm interested to see if the impact with covid now adds to the problem greatly or a little or notmuch at all and it stays about the same. Interesting situation.
 
Another high school basketball phenom Caleb White from Alabama #diedsuddenly.

Add Callie Mitchell a 16 year old cheerleader also #diedsuddenky of cardiac arrests.

Totally normal, nothing to see here.
 
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