Looming Debt Ceiling
- Thread starter TigerGrowls
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This is the biggest concern I have right now. These nazis don't have the benefit of the great depression, to really kick their racism and ultra nationalism into high gear, like the German ones. If Gosar, the human penis pictured above, and Marj Green have their way, they'll deliberately wreck the economy just to set the table for the 4th Reich.
Interesting how Rand Paul didn't say a WORD when Trump was running up the debt and the ceiling needed raising. BUT when Biden does, oh he's a HUGE debt hawk.
What's even worse, this is Trump's debt he doesn't want to pay for....
Nah... both parties are like this... Spend when you are in power, bitch about the debt when you aren't. The sad thing is that I actually agree with RP in his complaint. At some point we have to deal with spending more than we have. Unlike RP, my position on this doesn't change with what party is in power.
One side doesn't threaten the other with not raising the debt ceiling when needed.
Please....get help.
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No one's going to reform what's needed to be reformed. This is an empty gesture. Sure they can list seven or eight things that everybody can agree on to cut but the reality is until we start dealing with Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and the interest on our national debt we're not going to see any significant budgetary reform.
There are conservatives who will talk about this but it is a non-starter. All it does is fuel the Democrats fear-mongering about taking away people's government aid. It has to change but it won't change until it is forced upon us and by then it'll be a crushing blow. It certainly won't be all Democrats fault when it does happen. Republicans have nearly equal their reckless spending just in different directions. Our government is an abomination that needs to be completely reformed and shrunk by about 80% not including our military.
Let us not forget that prior to COVID, Trump spent like a drunken sailor and no one said a word. There may have been a few people who spoke out but very few in general and we saw massive deficits in a time of prosperity. That's the recipe for disaster. This is a non-partisan problem.
There are conservatives who will talk about this but it is a non-starter. All it does is fuel the Democrats fear-mongering about taking away people's government aid. It has to change but it won't change until it is forced upon us and by then it'll be a crushing blow. It certainly won't be all Democrats fault when it does happen. Republicans have nearly equal their reckless spending just in different directions. Our government is an abomination that needs to be completely reformed and shrunk by about 80% not including our military.
Let us not forget that prior to COVID, Trump spent like a drunken sailor and no one said a word. There may have been a few people who spoke out but very few in general and we saw massive deficits in a time of prosperity. That's the recipe for disaster. This is a non-partisan problem.
I call it like I see it. You've already said you'll vote for him again if he's the party nominee, knowing full well how dangerous he is. You'd rather enable a dangerous sociopath - for a 2nd time - who has already tried to topple our democracy once, than vote for a moderate democrat. I have no respect for that, or you, or anyone else who would do the same thing.
This is accurate but something has to be done to raise the alarm about our debt and our spending and the fact that it must change dramatically in short order. We do not have a taxation problem and we do not have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem.
Jesus Christ this is such utter hogwash. You just happily parrot the talking points on every issue.
No. I just read the spreadsheets put out by our government about the budget and I have a very distinct opinion about the role and scope of government.
You like to insult people. I suspect it is because you lack any meaningful knowledge to counter what is said. We have a spending problem.
I think we have a spending problem and a revenue problem. Tax cuts by the sedition party aimed to benefit the wealthy; funding cuts for the IRS which will cost hundreds of billions in lost revenue; untargeted PPP handouts which cost billions and were untaxed supported by both parties are also to blame. SS taxes should not have an income limit on them.
The so-called wealthy you refer to pay an outsized portion of our tax revenue. They consume almost none of it in terms of personal benefits through the government. You're really going to call them the sedition party? That's not inflammatory or anything. Perhaps you should spend a little time looking at the spreadsheets for all of our spending that the government releases. Perhaps you should also decide how much of other people's money you think you're entitled to. We have a spending problem. That's where it begins and ends because we want the government to do far too much and expect it to cost far too little.
In European nations that everyone on the left loves to bring up all of us we we paying about 35 to 45% of our income in taxes. Everybody pays there. That's what's so sinister about the way they left operates here. They try to make people think they can get all the benefits without any of the cost and that's not how it works. Apparently you've fallen for that too which is kind of sad. Educate yourself.
I don't think we can get anything for free. I favor a lot of social programs, but I think we need to pay for them. I think I have enough education. Degree in Econ from Clemson, JD from a top national law school. Self employed for 40 years where I had between 15 and 20 employees, now own numerous fast food franchises with about 2500 employees. Pay federal taxes up to $600,000 per year. I also received enough unneeded PPP $ from the failed former, seditionist president to choke a horse.
What would you call one of our political parties that supported the overturning of a fair and free election if not the Seditionist party?
All that stuff about your education and experience is great. But the reality is in your first and last sentence. You're an ideologue. I'm glad you're successful. Good for you. All your knowledge is filtered through your seemingly socialist views. So therefore, you'll never see a problem with taking other people's money and your own it seems.
I happen to know quite a few business owners myself that were saved by the PPP loans. There was A LOT of waste with how they were implemented but that was also because the Democrats demanded it go through all these places in the process. Remember, they controlled part of the process as well.
I'm not even going to waste my time with you on the election stuff. If you want to be a blind fool about the last two plus decades of corruption on all sides, go right ahead. I'm not going to play along.
Lololol
Dude talks about all the money he's made running multiple businesses, gets called a socialist.
You don't know very much about socialism do you? Take a look at Davos last week. Socialism is all about those who consider themselves the elite telling everyone else how they get to live and how the money should be spent. The piece for social programs via the government then he is in favor of socialist type governance. I know you're not that dumb but you can't realize that.
Not to mention the gentleman that I was responding to has made his wealth off the bags of those who do not have a lot of money by serving them horrible food and furthering the obesity crisis in this country. He's really not in a place to talk about what to do for society.
Hilarious. Telling me I don't know much about socialism while creating your own definition? What you just described isn't socialism, even a little bit.
The modern conservative movement has decided that facts and truth don't matter. And you change words with set meanings to make political points. Your argument here is growls level stuff.
The notion that the world's ultra elite, all of whom are the most aggressive capitalists in history, are "socialists" is ****ing insane. I can't believe you even thought to type that. Absolutely insane response.
"a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
I didn’t state that I would vote for him. I probably wouldn’t cast a presidential vote because there would be two terrible options on the ballot.
But you’re comments about nazis, 4th reich, etc are more akin to the ramblings of a conspiracist in an insane asylum than normal opinion or reality.
That's exactly what we're talking about. Once government becomes a provider it never stops. It will then slowly take ownership of society through a collective gathering under some form of control usually go run by elitist types. Please point to me any government in history that has actually laid to down power that it has taken. Government has an insatiable appetite for more control and more power. This is proven through all of history We are not a socialist country right now. We're not even close to one. But there are a lot of people who have those kind of tendencies now. If you don't recognize that then I don't know what to tell you man. But trying to make me look stupid isn't going to work real well for you because I'm not.
You and I have very different views on the world. But I know that you know what you're talking about most of the time. I just don't agree with the way you approach things. I suspect you know me well enough to know that I know what I'm talking about as well and I just have a different viewpoint on things. Getting into definitional type stuff when you're pointing out an end point and I'm pointing out a pathway towards something is a little ridiculous.
The Davos crowd or capitalist but they are stakeholder capitalists. They are not shareholder capitalists. A stakeholder capitalist is completely different and a very warped perversion of what real capitalism should be like. Totally different way of thinking about things. And ultimately in a stakeholder system there are controls that are put on things from some layer or level of government or organization. These people have elected themselves as the ones that will provide that. I'm not interested in anything they have to say because they are profoundly ignorant and using our climate situation to gain power over others. Again, if you don't see that that's up to you but it doesn't make it any less real whether you see it or not.
An example would be in my industry which is banking. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd would have loved to see government take over the banking industry in this country. Instead they put in place legislation that made it very hard for small banks to compete and made it very easy for Big Banks to acquire more because they knew that through all their controls they could essentially create a pseudo nationalization of the banking industry by limiting the competition. It's had devastating effects and in mortgage lending Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac continue to create more income streams in their direction via these absurd regulations and pricing adjustments to extract more and more money from consumers. It's just another form of taxation.
You might be on to something…. My guess is he pays a single digit effective tax rate and wants the people actually funding our budget to pay even more for his vision of a liberal utopia full of handouts, entitlements and broad government caretaking.
There are a number of rules the modern left has that you can follow along with.
Rules for thee, but not for me.
Never let a good crisis go to waste without gaining more control over others and how they live their lives.
What you think is happening is not happening but we're sure glad that it is happening.
For every problem there's an answer in government and when there isn't a problem we'll still make up one so that we can gain more control and power over others.
You're a victim and people hate you so put your trust in us and give us control over everything so we can fix it.
Rules for thee, but not for me.
Never let a good crisis go to waste without gaining more control over others and how they live their lives.
What you think is happening is not happening but we're sure glad that it is happening.
For every problem there's an answer in government and when there isn't a problem we'll still make up one so that we can gain more control and power over others.
You're a victim and people hate you so put your trust in us and give us control over everything so we can fix it.
It'll do no good to refute your statements, so I'll just bullshit and you should really think a little deeper than kindergarten level.
Oh I think a lot deeper than that. But at the end of the day, things can be reduced to very simple statements most of the time. Nuancing and manipulating things here and there is the path to oblivion.
And the reason you would say it wouldn't do any good to try and refute things is because you probably can't.
Dude this is getting tired; the whole “if you are progressive that just means you are poor and want to spend other people’s money” schtick.
See how @Willence tried this argument with @Woody1405 Above and got his ass handed to him.
Excuse me? How exactly did I get my ass handed to me? I never said that if you are progressive that you are poor and want to spend other people's money. Please point to me where I said that once.
In fact it's quite the opposite in most cases. A good number of progressives already have theirs and they want to tell other people how they have to live since their standard of living will not be affected. They just want control over others. Once again you have managed to not read and get it completely ass backwards. Of course that sums up your ideology very well. Take reality, twist it around and state it back completely different then it was said and act as though you're stating fact.
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I'm still waiting for that first substantive argument from you. Instead you just go to name calling. I stated my views and if you don't agree that's fine. You could present an alternative and you could mount an argument potentially. But I think that would be a bit much for you. I guess you'll just go search Twitter again since you can't seem to think too well for yourself.
You accuse others of "name calling" and then you insult the guy by saying he can't think. Do you see the irony? Also, yes I am a socialist in that I support public schools, our highway system, social security, medicare, medicaid and other programs that help needy people. I don't think I should have to apologize for supporting programs that help people, although I don't necessarily need the help myself. That's why I make charitable gifts to organizations that I believe help people. The social services listed above which I support are best performed by government. I have never understood why many on the religious right don't support helping people in need if that help comes from the government.
And I am still waiting on you to give me one example of when your conservative ideology of low taxes and decreased regulation have actual had sustained success in modern history. I have asked many times, but you have been unwilling or more likely unable to provide a response.
Your responses in this discussion have been embarrassing. That’s on you, not anyone else.
Not embarrassing at all. What specifically do you think is so bad? Conservative ideology does not create sustained success. Government getting out of the economic business creates sustained success. But of the two conservative performs better because we don't want the government in our economics. Since we have had them there things have gotten so much worse in terms of the peaks and troughs economically. Why do you want it so bad?
I will talk all day about economics. Feel free to ask any question you like and I will answer it. I promise you that.
Because in most things the government doesn't help people. We force people to go to public schools that don't work. We don't do anything to fix the public schools that don't work. We spend more money on education than any nation on earth pretty much and no one gets less from their money than we do. At some point we should wake up and realize that public schooling is a failure. There are better ways to do this.
Our social security system is a wreck and will do nothing about fixing it. It's been a failing model for a long time and everyone knows that but we didn't do anything about it.
We have a friend of our family who had brain surgery on Thursday. They had to drain fluid from the front of his brain. Medicare dictated that he had to go out of the hospital today. And they told him once he left that if he continued to have pain in his leg and fell which was the original problem that hitting his head would kill him. This is a man in his '70s. That's not quality care and now he's got blood clots in his legs and is going to have to have surgery again.
Medicaid is in abysmal failure. We have multiple tiers of care when there should be one level of care for every person. How much money you have should not determine what kind of care you get in this country. We are all Americans and we should be treated like that.
The problem I have with you isn't what you believe in it's how you seem to think it's okay to have it implemented badly and don't really care if people are hurt in the process. I want to do things better and create more opportunity for people to grow and benefit in the future. Just because someone has a disadvantaged start to life doesn't mean that's how they have to finish. But the government isn't the party that's going to help them advance. That's been well documented and proven.
I would be more than happy to discuss this at length with you if you'd like. You don't read me correctly at all. That seems to be a recurring theme because folks on your side of the fence are so invested in a narrative that they have to believe is true that they don't actually see reality. It's not that we want different things it's that there are better ways to get there and you seem unwilling to look at that for whatever reason I don't know. Being so invested in defending the system we haven't placed now is a recipe for disaster. There it's more than one way to solve problems. We should be investigating all avenues to try and figure out the best way forward. And almost all those cases government involvement is a hindrance and not a help.
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