OT: Bernie or Trump

[tigerP94]

Yah people's brains fall apart when considering the bigger picture. NC didn't take the money and its killing the system... my insurance WENT UP, BUT my employer ate the cost.

It's funny and sad that when a program is sabotaged just so people can say it doesn't work, which is what is happening in the carolinas. Politics is cancer/aids.

FFFY.

If your employer ate the increased cost, it still costs you and other employees there indirectly. Less money for equipment, expansion, raises, bonuses, whatever. I help run 2 companies, both in MN. So not as up to speed concerning situation in Carolinas, but its absolutely gone up in MN... for our companies the increase was > 20% in 2014, a bit less in 2015.

 

[firegiver]

FFFY.

If your employer ate the increased cost, it still costs you and other employees there indirectly. Less money for equipment, expansion, raises, bonuses, whatever. I help run 2 companies, both in MN. So not as up to speed concerning situation in Carolinas, but its absolutely gone up in MN... for our companies the increase was > 20% in 2014, a bit less in 2015.

Of course, and it was caused by the state playing politics.

 

[firegiver]

Can you explain how not taking federal money to expand Medicaid in NC is supposedly "killing the system?" What if expanding Medicaid is the real problem?

Sure, the hospitals still have to provide services, they can't just turn people away, now the federal taxes I pay as a US citizen don't go to pay those services and the hospitals eat the cost. It makes them charge MORE for services for those that have insurance and thus drives costs up.

 

[loveoysters]

Just checking in to refute this massive load of bullshit that you've dumped in order to make yourself feel better.

For the record, I write appeals for people who have been convicted of crimes. You know, ensuring that the courts follow the parts of the constitution that you never got around to reading. (Zing). That's also known as lawyering. I'm a big brother to a little brother in Big Brothers Big Sisters. I started a scholarship at my local high school in the name of a former Clemson player who mentored me when I was a child. I'm currently co-authoring the auto-biography of a former South Carolina politician, and I'm co-writing the memoir of the 12th man ever exonerated off of death row in the state of Texas.

I fundraise and contribute in a host of public and non-public ways that are none of your ****ing business. I do all of this while paying taxes and paying the government a stupid percentage of interest on the student loans they gave me so that I could go learn how to make sure our criminal trial courts are accountable.

That I have to write this stupid, ridiculous, self-aggrandizing post is annoying as ****, only because it was precipitated by your shit-tastic, haughty opinion.

And just for the record, from the non-partisan Pew Research Center, this:

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/

Relevant parts highlighted because I don't trust a stupid **** like yourself to find them:

Education. Democrats lead by 22 points (57%-35%) in leaned party identification among adults with post-graduate degrees.

Democrats now hold a 12-point lead (52% to 40%) in leaned party identification among those with at least a college degree, up from just a four-point difference as recently as 2010 (48% to 44%). There has been less change since 2010 in the partisan leanings of those with less education.

The Democrats’ wide lead in partisan identification among highly-educated adults is largely the result of a growing advantage among those with any post-graduate experience. A majority (56%) of those who have attended graduate school identify with the Democratic Party or lean Democratic, compared with 36% who align with or lean toward the GOP.

-------------------------

Fear not. The party of your choosing does very well in the old white men category. It does similarly well with people who don't know the difference between fascism, socialism, and communism. Also very strong numbers among people who don't know when to use their, they're, and there.

I'd suspect you hold a strong lead among rednecks who think a lot of themselves, and among those same rednecks who think that the government has already given too much to "the blacks" (insert whichever 1960s identifier for people of color that you might like to use on an hourly basis).

I'm certain there are smart, successful, well-adjusted people who for some reason vote for Republicans. It's likely because they're wealthy white men with brains wired for structure (or they were raised by one). I doubt you are among this group, no matter how much money you've happened to fall into.

----------------------
And what is wrong with being white and old?

 

[iceheart08]

he isnt an idiot. he knows what he is doing. His supporters on the other hand...

re-tweeting white supremacists? please tell us all how you and him arent bigots...

someone PLEASE defend this.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Sure, the hospitals still have to provide services, they can't just turn people away, now the federal taxes I pay as a US citizen don't go to pay those services and the hospitals eat the cost. It makes them charge MORE for services for those that have insurance and thus drives costs up.

That actually makes no sense. Not expanding Medicaid wouldn't increase the level of uncompensated care above pre-ACA levels, especially when more people should be able to buy heavily subsidized exchange based plans. If anything, it would just mean there would be a slightly smaller decrease in uncompensated care being subsidized by private insurance plans.

But, in general, it's not uncompensated care that's driving up the cost of insurance.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

----------------------
And what is wrong with being white and old?

It's just short-hand among a certain set of people for "your time has passed, and your opinion no longer counts." These people can only think in terms of identity.

 

[loveoysters]

It's just short-hand among a certain set of people for "your time has passed, and your opinion no longer counts." These people can only think in terms of identity.

I get so tired of people who knock white people that are older, does that not meet the definition of being a bigot? I think so. Many of the ones doing it are also white and they are basically saying their parents are a piece of crap-unless their parents died at early ages. Wait a minute, I bet their parents were a piece of crap, that does make sense for how they turned out.

 

[tigerP94]

Ain't it perfectly American that you can lead the primary for the Jesus party as a thrice-divorced casino owner who says he'd **** his own daughter if she weren't his and who can't even properly identify 2nd Corinthians, so long as you make a clear and convincing argument that you won't give the money and political power of old, rich white people away to those undeserving poors (and/or blacks, Latinos, Moslems, women, etc.).

In fairness to those saying Trump... the OP asked who people would vote for if choosing between Bernie and Trump. If those are the choices, for the first time in my voting life I will not cast a vote for President. I will vote, of course, for other elections being decided on the same ballot. But neither Trump or Bernie line up with any values I would want as President. They are both clowns in what has become a sad circus.

And please don't refer to the GOP as the Jesus party... its not really all that Christian if you hold it against any reasonable standard, much less the bible or Jesus. Hell, the GOP is barely conservative. And it sure doesn't have any moral high ground. Lol.

Maybe this train-wreck of primaries and eventual election will get America to wake up and stop voting for parties... vote for individuals who represent your ideals. Otherwise push for new choices and stop re-electing the same 2-party system that does so little with so much.

 

[OrangeBaron]

Damn, Smiley getting skewered with facts. And, Needing Education is showing his racist character. Glad to know where you stand.

 

[Higher Education]

Damn, Smiley getting skewered with facts. And, Needing Education is showing his racist character. Glad to know where you stand.

FWIW, I'm white.

And FWIW, the claims of white people that "you're the real racist because you point out how racist society has been toward people of color" is ... not exactly novel.

By all means, educate me. This should be fun.

 

[Higher Education]

----------------------
And what is wrong with being white and old?

Nothing at all wrong with being white and old. God willing, I'll fit in that demographic.

My post was in response to another poster who claimed that people who support Bernie Sanders must be ... something (mostly, he insinuated that Sanders supporters are uneducated, unsuccessful, living in mom's basement, etc.). I pointed out, in my post, that being highly educated is a better barometer for predicting Democratic affiliation (particularly being a highly educated woman). And that rather than the OP's dream (re: myth) wherein Trump supporters are "successful" and/or "job creators," the better predictor for whether one supports Republicans is actually one's age and skin color.

 

[tigerGUY]

i think if that happened you might see a legit movement for either Romney or Biden to thorw their hats in the race as a 3rd party closer to the center, but i think trump would be the winner barring a 3rd party interference.

my thoughts on why we are in this mess

YOUR thoughts?

 

[Higher Education]

My goodness... This might be one of the most racist posts I've seen on Tigerillustrated. The hate that you clearly cling to is disturbing.

FWIW, I am a 4th generation Charlestonian and the shithole backwater that I can't seem to remove myself from is Mt. Pleasant, SC. My parents were born in the late 40s/early 50s and absolutely were not racist at all. My grandparents would drop some colloquial references once in a while that would make us blush, but certainly nothing malicious.

I really hope you are able to find help for some of the misguided views you hold and for the deep-seated anger you seem to have. Best of luck.

If the shoe doesn't fit you, then by all means, don't wear it.

But know that if you vote for Donald Trump, many of the people voting alongside you are voting for those reasons.

And I concern myself far less with whether one guy from Mt. Pleasant and his family are racist (I could give a shit whether you are in the KKK or whether you volunteer for your local NAACP), and far more with the fact that the institutions that you support are systematically racist. I don't necessarily mean "support" in an active sense. It's just to say that the state of South Carolina does toes of shit each and every day in your name that should make you cringe.

Of course, it also goes without saying, as a universal rule, that pretty much no person has ever admitted to being racist ever. That's a pretty strong element of the racist mindset itself. See: Every meme re: "How is that racist? - white proverb."

And to suggest that I'm "racist" (I'm white, FWIW) because I point out that South Carolina responded by the Civil Rights Movement by kicking and screaming is curious indeed. You'd have to quite literally walk through your life blindfolded to not see the rampant racism all around you. From the myriad segregation academies on your side of the state to the blatant discrimination in the criminal justice system to the reaction of your fellow citizens every time a black community decides that it's tired of police killing one of its sons and daughters.

Perhaps you've been perfectly insulated from all of that. I suspect you haven't. I was fortunate enough to have middle class, nice parents and hung out around some of the better people from my town. I would need about 10 more hands to count on my fingers the number of times I heard people in my life make jokes about lazy black people. Respectable women in the community talking about how they don't like Buffalo Wild Wings because it's "gotten dark in there." Grandmothers (my own) talking about how they "like black people when they act right." Brothers in law discussing how they don't think black people play baseball as much because they "don't have long attention spans." Golf buddies who claim they may try to cheat on their taxes because, "Hell, 99-percent of black people don't pay taxes." I'd be very surprised if you didn't have 15 of those Olive Garden-loving friends who never left home and post to your Facebook about Obama being some derivative of ape. Or that you've heard the inherently racist discussions about drug testing for those damned welfare queens.

I mean, shit, man. If you've somehow navigated life at CLEMSON of all places, and managed to maintain a life in South Carolina for decades without seeing this, then you're fortunate.

All you have to do is open pretty much any article about a black person doing anything wrong, or go down to your local court house and listen to people talk about their assumptions in the voir dire process. I'll give you $10 for every time you hear one of those people say something openly or implicitly racist and you'll have enough money to buy tickets to next year's national championship game ... even before the prices bottom out the day before.

 

[Willence]

Nothing at all wrong with being white and old. God willing, I'll fit in that demographic.

My post was in response to another poster who claimed that people who support Bernie Sanders must be ... something (mostly, he insinuated that Sanders supporters are uneducated, unsuccessful, living in mom's basement, etc.). I pointed out, in my post, that being highly educated is a better barometer for predicting Democratic affiliation (particularly being a highly educated woman). And that rather than the OP's dream (re: myth) wherein Trump supporters are "successful" and/or "job creators," the better predictor for whether one supports Republicans is actually one's age and skin color.

It appears as though your wrong information knows no bounds! You are, once again, deluding yourself.

In the 2012 election, Romney won voters with college degrees by a 51%-47% margin. Incomes over $100k went for Romney by a 54%-44% margin. Incomes in the $50-90k range went for Romney 52%-46%.

Postgraduate voters did go for Obama 55-42 so I guess that can somewhat validate a part of what you're saying if only postgraduates are considered highly educated. However, this group is a whopping 18% of the overall electorate and it is the only education group that Obama (Dems) won other than the HS Graduate and "some HS" groups (which is people will 3 years or less of HS) and that group voted 64%-35% for Obama. Incomes under $50k went for Obama 60%-38%.

So basically, you are so full of it that it's hard to know where to begin. Stop being an elitist and become a realist. Get out of your insanely inaccurate viewpoints and get involved in what actually goes on. It is true though that most folks with "higher education" tend to be so absorbed in their fantasy land of academia that they haven't the first damn clue what's going on in the real world.

Next...

 

[iceheart08]

he isnt an idiot. he knows what he is doing. His supporters on the other hand...

re-tweeting white supremacists? please tell us all how you and him arent bigots...

someone PLEASE defend this.

View embedded media

calling all trump supporters. someone please defend this @tigerGUY, @Florida Tiger, @Ron Munson @Earle36, @igachoochoo

 

[anon_s7mtzi79509cl]

Bernie. Then, I'd quit my job and vote Democrat the rest of my life.
#cha-ching

 

[tigerP94]

If the shoe doesn't fit you, then by all means, don't wear it.

But know that if you vote for Donald Trump, many of the people voting alongside you are voting for those reasons.

And I concern myself far less with whether one guy from Mt. Pleasant and his family are racist (I could give a shit whether you are in the KKK or whether you volunteer for your local NAACP), and far more with the fact that the institutions that you support are systematically racist. I don't necessarily mean "support" in an active sense. It's just to say that the state of South Carolina does toes of shit each and every day in your name that should make you cringe.

Of course, it also goes without saying, as a universal rule, that pretty much no person has ever admitted to being racist ever. That's a pretty strong element of the racist mindset itself. See: Every meme re: "How is that racist? - white proverb."

And to suggest that I'm "racist" (I'm white, FWIW) because I point out that South Carolina responded by the Civil Rights Movement by kicking and screaming is curious indeed. You'd have to quite literally walk through your life blindfolded to not see the rampant racism all around you. From the myriad segregation academies on your side of the state to the blatant discrimination in the criminal justice system to the reaction of your fellow citizens every time a black community decides that it's tired of police killing one of its sons and daughters.

Perhaps you've been perfectly insulated from all of that. I suspect you haven't. I was fortunate enough to have middle class, nice parents and hung out around some of the better people from my town. I would need about 10 more hands to count on my fingers the number of times I heard people in my life make jokes about lazy black people. Respectable women in the community talking about how they don't like Buffalo Wild Wings because it's "gotten dark in there." Grandmothers (my own) talking about how they "like black people when they act right." Brothers in law discussing how they don't think black people play baseball as much because they "don't have long attention spans." Golf buddies who claim they may try to cheat on their taxes because, "Hell, 99-percent of black people don't pay taxes." I'd be very surprised if you didn't have 15 of those Olive Garden-loving friends who never left home and post to your Facebook about Obama being some derivative of ape. Or that you've heard the inherently racist discussions about drug testing for those damned welfare queens.

I mean, shit, man. If you've somehow navigated life at CLEMSON of all places, and managed to maintain a life in South Carolina for decades without seeing this, then you're fortunate.

All you have to do is open pretty much any article about a black person doing anything wrong, or go down to your local court house and listen to people talk about their assumptions in the voir dire process. I'll give you $10 for every time you hear one of those people say something openly or implicitly racist and you'll have enough money to buy tickets to next year's national championship game ... even before the prices bottom out the day before.

I've seen all of that in SC. I've seen it just about everywhere else I have lived or traveled as well. Racism and stupidity are universal issues, not uniquely SC issues. By my observation the bigots and idiots are a minority of people, guilty of complaining about minorities (ironically) as a means of making themselves feel better. And though I have moved away twice and spend a tremendous amount of time traveling to CA, MN, CO, MA and NY... SC is a my home and I dearly love returning here.

Politically speaking, SC happens to have a woman Governor and black Senator. Since those are both offices elected by statewide votes... pardon me for suggesting SC isn't half as controlled by rich-white people as NY, MA, and CA. At least not according to who SC voters have elected to the highest political offices.

 

[Willence]

If the shoe doesn't fit you, then by all means, don't wear it.

But know that if you vote for Donald Trump, many of the people voting alongside you are voting for those reasons.

And I concern myself far less with whether one guy from Mt. Pleasant and his family are racist (I could give a shit whether you are in the KKK or whether you volunteer for your local NAACP), and far more with the fact that the institutions that you support are systematically racist. I don't necessarily mean "support" in an active sense. It's just to say that the state of South Carolina does toes of shit each and every day in your name that should make you cringe.

Of course, it also goes without saying, as a universal rule, that pretty much no person has ever admitted to being racist ever. That's a pretty strong element of the racist mindset itself. See: Every meme re: "How is that racist? - white proverb."

And to suggest that I'm "racist" (I'm white, FWIW) because I point out that South Carolina responded by the Civil Rights Movement by kicking and screaming is curious indeed. You'd have to quite literally walk through your life blindfolded to not see the rampant racism all around you. From the myriad segregation academies on your side of the state to the blatant discrimination in the criminal justice system to the reaction of your fellow citizens every time a black community decides that it's tired of police killing one of its sons and daughters.

Perhaps you've been perfectly insulated from all of that. I suspect you haven't. I was fortunate enough to have middle class, nice parents and hung out around some of the better people from my town. I would need about 10 more hands to count on my fingers the number of times I heard people in my life make jokes about lazy black people. Respectable women in the community talking about how they don't like Buffalo Wild Wings because it's "gotten dark in there." Grandmothers (my own) talking about how they "like black people when they act right." Brothers in law discussing how they don't think black people play baseball as much because they "don't have long attention spans." Golf buddies who claim they may try to cheat on their taxes because, "Hell, 99-percent of black people don't pay taxes." I'd be very surprised if you didn't have 15 of those Olive Garden-loving friends who never left home and post to your Facebook about Obama being some derivative of ape. Or that you've heard the inherently racist discussions about drug testing for those damned welfare queens.

I mean, shit, man. If you've somehow navigated life at CLEMSON of all places, and managed to maintain a life in South Carolina for decades without seeing this, then you're fortunate.

All you have to do is open pretty much any article about a black person doing anything wrong, or go down to your local court house and listen to people talk about their assumptions in the voir dire process. I'll give you $10 for every time you hear one of those people say something openly or implicitly racist and you'll have enough money to buy tickets to next year's national championship game ... even before the prices bottom out the day before.

What a load of bunk. It's ironic how much stereotyping and sight unseen judging you are doing here. Really takes the cake for irony...

What we have a highly educated group that views themselves as somehow needing to lord (see the word, Master) over all and especially the poor combined with the totally marginalized and further victimized poor (see the word, Slave). This is the status quo for a long time which can only be achieved by completely removing all hope and opportunity from the said minority groups and then blaming the other guy for it. This has worked but the truth is still the truth and one need only visit almost any area run by liberals to see how the order truly works. It's disgusting.

Yes, there are backwoods, racist idiots on the right. There's no questioning it but they don't have power over the minority groups to subjugate and humiliate them the way the intellectual, leftist elite has. For one to ridicule the other and claim the higher ground is beyond absurd.

 

[tigerGUY]

calling all trump supportters. someone please defend this @tigerGUY, @Florida Tiger, @Ron Munson

Ice....please don't pretend to know who I support. It isn't a lying evil bitch with dead bodies(literally) laying in the ground from her and her husbands exploits for powe...or an avowed Socialist...or a Facist that would love a 3rd term.

FWIW, I'm white.

And FWIW, the claims of white people that "you're the real racist because you point out how racist society has been toward people of color" is ... not exactly novel.

By all means, educate me. This should be fun.

You are a Mensa member in your own mind. I hope to be so intelligent as you believe that you are one day.

 

[ladedade]

Ice....please don't pretend to know who I support. It isn't a lying evil bitch with dead bodies(literally) laying in the ground from her and her husbands exploits for powe...or an avowed Socialist...or a Facist that would love a 3rd term.


You are a Mensa member in your own mind. I hope to be so intelligent as you believe that you are one day.

This election is truly about which candidate is the most palatable (none are IMO). I want to like Hillary because I thought Bill was a good President but man, she is just unlikeable (all other issues notwithstanding). Bernie...I mean really? Some socialism is a good thing but going all in gets you France, which is an awesome country to visit but effed up to do business in. On the Republican side, I truly believe most of what Trump is saying is to get the rubes to vote for him. My guess is that he is more moderate than he lets on.

All that being said, and maybe this is from having a different world view living here in NYC, what is everyone's deal with Obama? I've voted both Republican and Democrat so appreciate both parties, but I can't remember a President so disliked by the opposition in my lifetime, almost a disgust each time his name
is mentioned. Seems like an OK dude to me and I don't consider my life to be worse since he has become President, so what gives?

 

[andcam]

1. This election is truly about which candidate is the most palatable (none are IMO). I want to like Hillary because I thought Bill was a good President but man, she is just unlikeable (all other issues notwithstanding). Bernie...I mean really? Some socialism is a good thing but going all in gets you France, which is an awesome country to visit but effed up to do business in. On the Republican side, I truly believe most of what Trump is saying is to get the rubes to vote for him. My guess is that he is more moderate than he lets on.
   
   All that being said, and maybe this is from having a different world view living here in NYC, what is everyone's deal with Obama? I've voted both Republican and Democrat so appreciate both parties, but I can't remember a President so disliked by the opposition in my lifetime, almost a disgust each time his name
   is mentioned. Seems like an OK dude to me and I don't consider my life to be worse since he has become President, so what gives?

   
   I would have to say that more people dislike Cruz than even HRC. He is one of the most negative people I have ever heard speak.
   

 

[OrangeBaron]

FWIW, I'm white.

And FWIW, the claims of white people that "you're the real racist because you point out how racist society has been toward people of color" is ... not exactly novel.

By all means, educate me. This should be fun.

Your skin color doesn't matter. Don't you get it? It is your mindset that makes you racist. You are the type that can't make an argument so immediately grab for the intellectually devoid and emotionally charged rhetoric to make a point. There is nothing more despicable than that. And, the fact that you are clinging to the past illustrates just how devoid your logic is as well as you as a person.

 

[scotchtiger]

If the shoe doesn't fit you, then by all means, don't wear it.

But know that if you vote for Donald Trump, many of the people voting alongside you are voting for those reasons.

And I concern myself far less with whether one guy from Mt. Pleasant and his family are racist (I could give a shit whether you are in the KKK or whether you volunteer for your local NAACP), and far more with the fact that the institutions that you support are systematically racist. I don't necessarily mean "support" in an active sense. It's just to say that the state of South Carolina does toes of shit each and every day in your name that should make you cringe.

Of course, it also goes without saying, as a universal rule, that pretty much no person has ever admitted to being racist ever. That's a pretty strong element of the racist mindset itself. See: Every meme re: "How is that racist? - white proverb."

And to suggest that I'm "racist" (I'm white, FWIW) because I point out that South Carolina responded by the Civil Rights Movement by kicking and screaming is curious indeed. You'd have to quite literally walk through your life blindfolded to not see the rampant racism all around you. From the myriad segregation academies on your side of the state to the blatant discrimination in the criminal justice system to the reaction of your fellow citizens every time a black community decides that it's tired of police killing one of its sons and daughters.

Perhaps you've been perfectly insulated from all of that. I suspect you haven't. I was fortunate enough to have middle class, nice parents and hung out around some of the better people from my town. I would need about 10 more hands to count on my fingers the number of times I heard people in my life make jokes about lazy black people. Respectable women in the community talking about how they don't like Buffalo Wild Wings because it's "gotten dark in there." Grandmothers (my own) talking about how they "like black people when they act right." Brothers in law discussing how they don't think black people play baseball as much because they "don't have long attention spans." Golf buddies who claim they may try to cheat on their taxes because, "Hell, 99-percent of black people don't pay taxes." I'd be very surprised if you didn't have 15 of those Olive Garden-loving friends who never left home and post to your Facebook about Obama being some derivative of ape. Or that you've heard the inherently racist discussions about drug testing for those damned welfare queens.

I mean, shit, man. If you've somehow navigated life at CLEMSON of all places, and managed to maintain a life in South Carolina for decades without seeing this, then you're fortunate.

All you have to do is open pretty much any article about a black person doing anything wrong, or go down to your local court house and listen to people talk about their assumptions in the voir dire process. I'll give you $10 for every time you hear one of those people say something openly or implicitly racist and you'll have enough money to buy tickets to next year's national championship game ... even before the prices bottom out the day before.

First of all, and I hope if been crystal clear, I'm not a fan of Trump and will not be voting for him in the primary. The decision between Bernie and Trump is no-win, but I would have to hold my nose and vote for the Donald given the alternative.

You have a pretty f'd up world view if you think a great many that would vote the same are doing so because they are racists. I really hope you are exaggerating your point.

Then we get into moving the goal posts. Somehow a joke about laziness equals generational opposition of civil rights from your previous post... Uh, okay. I've heard similar comments to your first 2 examples, but not the next 5. Welfare queen is new to me, though drug testing those on the gov't dole is not.

And you finally lost me at Olive Garden-loving friends. I don't think I have 1, much less 15.

 

[chassc]

All that being said, and maybe this is from having a different world view living here in NYC, what is everyone's deal with Obama? I've voted both Republican and Democrat so appreciate both parties, but I can't remember a President so disliked by the opposition in my lifetime, almost a disgust each time his name
is mentioned. Seems like an OK dude to me and I don't consider my life to be worse since he has become President, so what gives?

there was every bit, if not more, venom from the left about W for 8 years. It was a little bit tamped down after 9/11 out of respect, but it flared back up bigger than before. There were movies made, stage shows, TV shows....all made to cement W's legacy as a bumbling idiot.
Obama is just the first to preside during a time when every clown can express some ridiculous idea in facebook memes and pretty much count on nobody fact-checking it.

 

[tigerP94]

there was every bit, if not more, venom from the left about W for 8 years. It was a little bit tamped down after 9/11 out of respect, but it flared back up bigger than before. There were movies made, stage shows, TV shows....all made to cement W's legacy as a bumbling idiot.
Obama is just the first to preside during a time when every clown can express some ridiculous idea in facebook memes and pretty much count on nobody fact-checking it.

I agree there was plenty of negativity about Bush as well, especially the last few years. The media and entertainment world pretty much cast him as an idiot and it wasn't even debated... yet somehow Obama represented such a stark contrast on that front. Laughable when looking back on it.

But I do think we have hit an all-time high with Americans being disgruntled and upset at the POTUS. Part of that is the disdain Obama shows for so many Americans. Its not even veiled. Really it was never all that veiled... people "clinging to religion and guns" and "elections have consequences". This administration has spent a lot of time and resources over 8 years taking punitive measures against political opponents. Obama has been as divisive as any President in my life time. I think that combined with cultural differences (social media, attack the person not the argument, etc) have contributed to a toxic situation.

 

[Tiger Benny]

 

[vatiger1]

If the shoe doesn't fit you, then by all means, don't wear it.

But know that if you vote for Donald Trump, many of the people voting alongside you are voting for those reasons.

And I concern myself far less with whether one guy from Mt. Pleasant and his family are racist (I could give a shit whether you are in the KKK or whether you volunteer for your local NAACP), and far more with the fact that the institutions that you support are systematically racist. I don't necessarily mean "support" in an active sense. It's just to say that the state of South Carolina does toes of shit each and every day in your name that should make you cringe.
.

You sure aren't doing your Handle/Name any justice, quite the opposite it seems.

 

[ladedade]

I agree there was plenty of negativity about Bush as well, especially the last few years. The media and entertainment world pretty much cast him as an idiot and it wasn't even debated... yet somehow Obama represented such a stark contrast on that front. Laughable when looking back on it.

But I do think we have hit an all-time high with Americans being disgruntled and upset at the POTUS. Part of that is the disdain Obama shows for so many Americans. Its not even veiled. Really it was never all that veiled... people "clinging to religion and guns" and "elections have consequences". This administration has spent a lot of time and resources over 8 years taking punitive measures against political opponents. Obama has been as divisive as any President in my life time. I think that combined with cultural differences (social media, attack the person not the argument, etc) have contributed to a toxic situation.

Just curious, what are these punitive measures that you speak of?

 

[loveoysters]

Just curious, what are these punitive measures that you speak of?

Start with the IRS attack on conservative organizations.

 

[iceheart08]

Start with the IRS attack on conservative organizations.

kinda like the IRS did during GW Bush's tenure?

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/14/when_the_irs_targeted_liberals/

or like the IRS did during Obama's tenure?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/18/politics/irs-scandal/

GET OUT OF YOUR ECHO CHAMBER.

 

[iceheart08]

First of all, and I hope if been crystal clear, I'm not a fan of Trump and will not be voting for him in the primary. The decision between Bernie and Trump is no-win, but I would have to hold my nose and vote for the Donald given the alternative.

You have a pretty f'd up world view if you think a great many that would vote the same are doing so because they are racists. I really hope you are exaggerating your point.

Then we get into moving the goal posts. Somehow a joke about laziness equals generational opposition of civil rights from your previous post... Uh, okay. I've heard similar comments to your first 2 examples, but not the next 5. Welfare queen is new to me, though drug testing those on the gov't dole is not.

And you finally lost me at Olive Garden-loving friends. I don't think I have 1, much less 15.

donald trump may not be a bigot, but he is certainly playing one as a politician. If you think otherwise you clearly arent paying attention. Defend the source of the tweet I reposted ITT (the location of the guy who created the meme is listed as: jewmerica), or the Muslim woman thrown out of a trump rally for literally standing there with a shirt that read "we come in peace" followed immediately by trump claiming that muslims have "hate in their hearts". How about the time trump said BLM protesters should be beat up? or said the two men on the east coast who randomely attacked a minority then professoed their trump support were just "passionate". Or that the mexicans crossing the boarder are rapists.

Come on, you are a smart guy scotch, trump is deliberately playing the bigot, and its working because a significant portion of the american far right honestly believes black people are stealing from them and all muslims want to kill them. The people on this board who proactively support trump are the same idiots who have posted things like, slavery was good for Africans, and that every time they walk down the street and see a group of Muslims (and its beyond laughable that this particular person has EVER seen someone they would describe as a muslim, let alone in some sort of gang-like group) they get scared. those are bigoted things, and its not a coincidence that they full-throatedly support trump.

 

[appalachiatiger]

everybody hates everybody who doesnt think, dress, and act like themselves.

people feel more comfortable around themselves, scared shitless around something they dont know or understand

skin color is only the surface of the problem

kinda like guns dont kill people, people kill people

take away the guns

people will still kill people

 

[cwbarr1]

kinda like the IRS did during GW Bush's tenure?

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/14/when_the_irs_targeted_liberals/

or like the IRS did during Obama's tenure?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/18/politics/irs-scandal/

GET OUT OF YOUR ECHO CHAMBER.

Wow, using a Salon story. Not the bastion of journalistic integrity, for reporting anything balanced. Reuters, BBC, then maybe, but nothing from Salon. Salon is like Fox News for liberals.

 

[scotchtiger]

donald trump may not be a bigot, but he is certainly playing one as a politician. If you think otherwise you clearly arent paying attention. Defend the source of the tweet I reposted ITT (the location of the guy who created the meme is listed as: jewmerica), or the Muslim woman thrown out of a trump rally for literally standing there with a shirt that read "we come in peace" followed immediately by trump claiming that muslims have "hate in their hearts". How about the time trump said BLM protesters should be beat up? or said the two men on the east coast who randomely attacked a minority then professoed their trump support were just "passionate". Or that the mexicans crossing the boarder are rapists.

Come on, you are a smart guy scotch, trump is deliberately playing the bigot, and its working because a significant portion of the american far right honestly believes black people are stealing from them and all muslims want to kill them. The people on this board who proactively support trump are the same idiots who have posted things like, slavery was good for Africans, and that every time they walk down the street and see a group of Muslims (and its beyond laughable that this particular person has EVER seen someone they would describe as a muslim, let alone in some sort of gang-like group) they get scared. those are bigoted things, and its not a coincidence that they full-throatedly support trump.

Again, this thread is about a decision between Trump and Bernie if forced into the proverbial kobyashi maru.

The vast, vast majority of people who would pull the lever for Donald are not doing so because they are racists, regardless of whatever outlandish remarks he has made during primary season.

I would choose Trump over Bernie because he would be more likely to share my views on free market capitalism, limited government, reasonable taxation, fiscal responsibility and a variety of other issues that I prioritize over social items or racial noise.

 

[appalachiatiger]

Wow, using a Salon story. Not the bastion of journalistic integrity, for reporting anything balanced. Reuters, BBC, then maybe, but nothing from Salon. Salon is like Fox News for liberals.

cant belive u havent realized by now that ALL journalism lacks integrity.

best to scan all journalism and listen to first hand reports from the actually involved in situations

2nd hand recounts is worthless

people think dan rather is a better source for info on benghazi that ambassador stevens if he was alive

 

[tigerP94]

Just curious, what are these punitive measures that you speak of?

I think using the IRS and Holder to go after opponents is pretty punitive. Perhaps you don't agree.

 

[chassc]

The fun thing about the Internet, perhaps the most fun thing, is that it will, if you allow it to, challenge you and your bubble, and remind you that even though your backward ass belief system is totally normal in whatever shithole backwater you never made it out of, there are people--successful people, even--who see right through your bullshit for what it actually is.

I know that South Carolina and many of its contemporary states had to be dragged into the future by the federal government with congress's passing of the Civil Rights Act, and with SCOTUS's ruling in Brown v. Board of Education (and other such rulings). We tend to fall into this deficit of thinking that the good people of South Carolina decided shortly after Martin Luther King's death that, gosh golly, that boy was right about all them things.

No such thing happened. The federal government stepped in and said, "**** you, states that have laws that treat black people like sub-citizen animals. Here's a little sweeping legislation that you'll have to follow." And South Carolina, like Mississippi, Alabama, and other states around it, went crying and kicking and screaming. There was no moral renaissance here that led to harmonious racial policy. There was the federal government's recognition that matters of constitutional importance (like equal protection) couldn't be left to the states, with their racist leaders representing largely racist constituents.

South Carolina and her contemporaries responded just as you might have suspected. By starting schools with the name Robert E. Lee Academy and John C. Calhoun Academy (among MANY others) so they could get their kids away from black folks for very cheap, and so they, themselves wouldn't have to sit and cheer alongside black folks at football games their kids would have never been able to participate in had those kids stayed in their local, integrated schools. They great legacy of South Carolina in the Civil Rights Act era is that even after the federal government made it play nice, the people responded by spending thousands of dollars to give their kid a shitty education in an all-white environment. And in most parts of the state, not much has changed on that front.

My point in all of this is to say, in essence, res ipsa loquitor. The thing speaks for itself. South Carolina of five decades ago was a haven for racism and I see no evidence that anything big happened to change the attitudes of the people who did all of those things way back when. The fantastical claims that their children just evolved beyond it after being raised by the very racists who opposed civil rights is too big a lie to swallow, and it's, of course, betrayed by the current state of our criminal justice system, which is evidence enough that South Carolina of today and South Carolina of 1963 are, if not twins, close cousins.

This is all to say that when a candidate comes into the state with big, brazen talk about building a wall, posting to his Twitter incorrect memes about black people and crime from white supremacist websites, and encourages brutality against Muslim-looking citizens who are doing absolutely nothing wrong, I have NO problem understanding why that person attracts a strong following.

The federal government silenced South Carolinians a few decades ago. Said, "Your brand of racism and discrimination is no longer acceptable" and pushed nasty conversations about Mexicans to the safe recesses of Thanksgiving dinner tables. Now, a candidate gets in front of a microphone and says those things that many South Carolinians have been wanting so badly to say out loud. I get his support completely, in the context of why people actually like him.

And, of course, these are sweeping generalities that don't apply to every person in the state, and probably not even the vast majority. But they apply to many, a majority of people who will pull the lever for the Donald.

the universities, medical schools, and law schools of this country disagree with you assessment of the "shitty education" received in the SC private schools. But, by all means, stay on your high horse.

 

[Willence]

Come on, you are a smart guy scotch, trump is deliberately playing the bigot, and its working because a large portion of the american right honestly believes black people are stealing from them and all muslims want to kill them. The people on this board who proactively support trump are the same idiots who have posted things like, slavery was good for Africans, and that every time they walk down the street and see a group of Muslims (and its beyond laughable that this particular person has EVER seen someone they would describe as a muslim, let alone in some sort of gang-like group) they get scared. those are bigoted things, and its not a coincidence that they full-throatedly support trump.

Ice, this is a ridiculous statement. You have no idea what motivates people and why they are upset if you think this. I do not support Trump. I will not vote for him and I'm not sure I will vote for him if he wins the nomination. I may just vote for myself instead because Trump doesn't stand for anything that I do.. This is the problem with left in America. You decide what you want to see and then you spend all your time lining up "facts" which aren't really factual to back up what you've decided you want to see. That's not how it works if it's a normal process.

I would agree that a segment of his support is somewhat like what you described. There's no escaping that reality. But it isn't all or even most of his support. There are a lot of frustrations from people who are not in line with what our government is doing. The unforgivable spending of future generations money with the debt we are accruing right now is a big part of it. You can either try to understand folks or you can just call them bigots. I think it's beyond idiotic to label and brand people without understanding them or at least trying to. But again, that kind of judgment and bigotry is the hallmark of modern liberalism.

 

[iceheart08]

Again, this thread is about a decision between Trump and Bernie if forced into the proverbial kobyashi maru.

The vast, vast majority of people who would pull the lever for Donald are not doing so because they are racists, regardless of whatever outlandish remarks he has made during primary season.

I would choose Trump over Bernie because he would be more likely to share my views on free market capitalism, limited government, reasonable taxation, fiscal responsibility and a variety of other issues that I prioritize over social items or racial noise.

I would love to know how you know what his policies are. Limited government? He want to create lists of muslims and people who suffer from mental health issues. he also wants to create a GIGANTIC police force to throw people out of this country. is that limiting government?

Fiscal responsibility? How does his past use of bankruptcy procedures lead you to believe he will be fiscally conservative?

The man isnt a conservative. He's advocated for placing GIGANTIC tariffs on chinese goods. Thats protectionist idiocy, and usually advanced by liberals who want to appeal to unions.

His tax reform plan includes, LITERALLY giving 75% of american households a form to send to the IRS that says, and i quote from his website "I win" because they wont be required to pay income taxes.

and to pay for his wall, he is LITERALLY going to steal money from people. has no idea what he is saying when it comes to foreign policy, and is CERTAIN to embarrass us internationally, as well as add to the quagmire that is the middle east. Britain is actually debating refusing his entry into their country. Scottland pulled titles they have given to him. He has already made an enemy of the entire middle east? Its a near certainty a donald trump election plays into ISIS' plans.

his website has only 5 policy sections.

Hillarys has 27. Bernie has 22. Jeb has 20. Rubio has 35. Even Ted Cruz has 10. Kasich has 10.

Those are conservative values?