OT: Bernie or Trump

[Willence]

I would love to know how you know what his policies are. Limited government? He want to create lists of muslims and people who suffer from mental health issues. he also wants to create a GIGANTIC police force to throw people out of this country. is that limiting government?

Fiscal responsibility? How does his past use of bankruptcy procedures lead you to believe he will be fiscally conservative?

The man isnt a conservative. He's advocated for placing GIGANTIC tariffs on chinese goods. Thats protectionist idiocy, and usually advanced by liberals who want to appeal to unions.

His tax reform plan includes, LITERALLY giving 75% of american households a form to send to the IRS that says, and i quote from his website "I win" because they wont be required to pay income taxes.

and to pay for his wall, he is LITERALLY going to steal money from people. has no idea what he is saying when it comes to foreign policy, and is CERTAIN to embarrass us internationally, as well as add to the quagmire that is the middle east. Britain is actually debating refusing his entry into their country. Scottland pulled titles they have given to him. He has already made an enemy of the entire middle east? Its a near certainty a donald trump election plays into ISIS' plans.

his website has only 5 policy sections.

Hillarys has 27. Bernie has 22. Jeb has 20. Rubio has 35. Even Ted Cruz has 10. Kasich has 10.

Those are conservative values?

In my opinion, you're right. This is why I don't understand what the hell people are doing supporting him. No, he is not a conservative. But then, most of the candidates running are not conservatives in the sense that I am looking for. Everyone should pay taxes. Every single American that works should pay at least something. What we're doing exempting people from taxation will destroy the country. Unless we can decide that if you don't pay taxes, you can't vote. I could support that too but then I want everyone to pay taxes so everyone would vote.

 

[ladedade]

I think using the IRS and Holder to go after opponents is pretty punitive. Perhaps you don't agree.

That doesn't sound very nice at all. Is there a legitimate news organization that links Obama with ordering the IRS to do this?

 

[iceheart08]

In my opinion, you're right. This is why I don't understand what the hell people are doing supporting him. No, he is not a conservative. But then, most of the candidates running are not conservatives in the sense that I am looking for. Everyone should pay taxes. Every single American that works should pay at least something. What we're doing exempting people from taxation will destroy the country. Unless we can decide that if you don't pay taxes, you can't vote. I could support that too but then I want everyone to pay taxes so everyone would vote.

the only thing we are left with, since his policies are either non-existent, obvioulsy harmful, clearly not conservative or jingoistic is that a good amount of the people supporting him are doing so because they think he "tells it like it is", mostly in relation to mexicans, muslims, and black people. thats all he talks about. 2 of his 5 policy sections are based on bigotry, with an argument to be made regarding 2 of the other 3. THe only one that isnt based in some part on xenophobia or outright racism is VA reform, and honestly, hes not going out on much of a limb there.

 

[Willence]

the only thing we are left with, since his policies are either non-existent, obvioulsy harmful, clearly not conservative or jingoistic is that a good amount of the people supporting him are doing so because they think he "tells it like it is", mostly in relation to mexicans, muslims, and black people. thats all he talks about. 2 of his 5 policy sections are based on bigotry, with an argument to be made regarding 2 of the other 3. THe only one that isnt based in some part on xenophobia or outright racism is VA reform, and honestly, hes not going out on much of a limb there.

That's not true. There you go too far. And a lot of what he says about our trade policy and how we are taken advantage of is right. I wish you'd be willing to look at things in a more realistic light. There are a lot of uncomfortable truths out there. His platform isn't about bigotry. It may seem that way but Donald Trump is not a bigot. He's just playing to the anger about what's gone unchecked for far too long.

 

[tigerP94]

That doesn't sound very nice at all. Is there a legitimate news organization that links Obama with ordering the IRS to do this?

Not sure which you would find 'legitimate' as a news source... but take your pic of many. Here are 2 summary articles from Washington Post and CBS (trying not to use anti-Obama channels):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...185644-bbdf-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_story.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-irs-targeting-controversy-a-timeline/

Biggest issue I have with it is that the Lerner admitted to targeting conservative groups, in a broader scope and longer timeline that originally thought... but no charges were brought by the DOJ. It was an absurd abuse of power, and again showed the "most transparent administration" is only transparent about their intent to punish opponents and let allies get away with crap.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/23/politics/lois-lerner-no-charges-doj-tea-party/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertw...obama-cant-blame-on-republicans/#38c228151e82

Honestly, since this entire thread was about choice of Bernie or Trump, at least whatever crap Trump has done he did in private sector and not while serving in public office & Bernie might just be the one career politician that has played things straight. So there's that.

 

[scotchtiger]

I would love to know how you know what his policies are. Limited government? He want to create lists of muslims and people who suffer from mental health issues. he also wants to create a GIGANTIC police force to throw people out of this country. is that limiting government?

Fiscal responsibility? How does his past use of bankruptcy procedures lead you to believe he will be fiscally conservative?

The man isnt a conservative. He's advocated for placing GIGANTIC tariffs on chinese goods. Thats protectionist idiocy, and usually advanced by liberals who want to appeal to unions.

His tax reform plan includes, LITERALLY giving 75% of american households a form to send to the IRS that says, and i quote from his website "I win" because they wont be required to pay income taxes.

and to pay for his wall, he is LITERALLY going to steal money from people. has no idea what he is saying when it comes to foreign policy, and is CERTAIN to embarrass us internationally, as well as add to the quagmire that is the middle east. Britain is actually debating refusing his entry into their country. Scottland pulled titles they have given to him. He has already made an enemy of the entire middle east? Its a near certainty a donald trump election plays into ISIS' plans.

his website has only 5 policy sections.

Hillarys has 27. Bernie has 22. Jeb has 20. Rubio has 35. Even Ted Cruz has 10. Kasich has 10.

Those are conservative values?

For the 1000th time, I think Trump is a terrible presidential candidate. I just think Bernie is worse. While I may not know exactly what Trump will attempt in office, I do know that Bernie will try to raise my taxes, grow the scope of the federal government, increase government dependence, increase government spending, etc. All bad things. I'll take my chances with Trump before I sign up for that.

 

[loveoysters]

I think using the IRS and Holder to go after opponents is pretty punitive. Perhaps you don't agree.

I am a partner in a CPA firm and I can tell you that the IRS was after conservative groups without a doubt-liberals can put their head in the sand all they want but it is a fact.

 

[other1]

For the 1000th time, I think Trump is a terrible presidential candidate. I just think Bernie is worse. While I may not know exactly what Trump will attempt in office, I do know that Bernie will try to raise my taxes, grow the scope of the federal government, increase government dependence, increase government spending, etc. All bad things. I'll take my chances with Trump before I sign up for that.

You can't do anything without the help of the House and Senate and they are both controlled by the GOP. So the checks and balances probably work better with Bernie in there instead of Trump.

 

[CLT-Tiger]

Anyone who thinks Bernie is a viable candidate for the Presidency of the United States has no idea why we were founded in the first place.

 

[iceheart08]

Anyone who thinks Bernie is a viable candidate for the Presidency of the United States has no idea why we were founded in the first place.

you must not know what the word viable means...

 

[CLT-Tiger]

you must not know what the word viable means...

Again, you are the dumbest smart man on the planet.

 

[iceheart08]

Again, you are the dumbest smart man on the planet.

im gonna go ahead and take that as a compliment .

also, viable, still not the right word.

 

[Willence]

You can't do anything without the help of the House and Senate and they are both controlled by the GOP. So the checks and balances probably work better with Bernie in there instead of Trump.

A couple years of GOP control to undo some of the idiocy done in the past seven+ years wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Then again, the GOP would make their own messes but at least a lot of the things that are totally disrupting our economy would be removed. Bernie Sanders is the most uninformed, whacked out candidate I believe I've ever seen. Well maybe Ralph Nader or Dr. Paul. Unreal!

 

[other1]

A couple years of GOP control to undo some of the idiocy done in the past seven+ years wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Then again, the GOP would make their own messes but at least a lot of the things that are totally disrupting our economy would be removed. Bernie Sanders is the most uninformed, whacked out candidate I believe I've ever seen. Well maybe Ralph Nader or Dr. Paul. Unreal!

Sort of comparable to the clown show on the GOP side.

 

[Willence]

I am not defending the GOP but I think all of them would be better than Sanders by miles.

 

[Clems0nTiger]

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters,"

Donald Trump, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[OrangeForever]

Having to choose between Bernie fn Sanders and an imbecile like Trump for President is like wondering who to replace Dabo with and having to choose between Charlie Weiss and Ron Zook

 

[appalachiatiger]

sanders and trump really aint much different than the last 3 presidents if you think about it

obama

bush

clinton

all served 8'years each

getting dumber every time lol

 

[jimbob1019]

You know, people keep calling Trump an idiot but he quickly rose to the top of the GOP polls & has managed to keep the top spot for months now without actually saying anything of substance, politically speaking...

Maybe he's not the idiot some of y'all make him out to be...

 

[other1]

You know, people keep calling Trump an idiot but he quickly rose to the top of the GOP polls & has managed to keep the top spot for months now without actually saying anything of substance, politically speaking...

Maybe he's not the idiot some of y'all make him out to be...

Perhaps it's the uneducated coming out of the woodwork and making their presence known.

 

[jimbob1019]

Perhaps it's the uneducated coming out of the woodwork and making their presence known.

Or perhaps, it's just a bunch of people that's fed up with bought & paid for, run of the mill politicians...

Say what you will but he would be light years better than spineless Hillary or Socialist Bernie

 

[other1]

 

[treetiger]

This country is in a bad way no matter what route to the president is taken by what we have to choose from. It may be the absolute worst choice of candidates on either side since the very first election that I voted in since 1976!

Sanders= Socialism
Trump= delusion-ism ("Everyone loves me!")
Bush= Cry baby-ism
Clinton= Clinton-ism (need I say more= lying cheating, scandal, etc.)
Walker and Rubio appears to be the best of the lot, but I'm not too sure that you could roll them up together and come out with a good presidential candidate?

Extreme sad state of affairs for American democracy and the future!

 

[whitesixmile]

This country is in a bad way no matter what route to the president is taken by what we have to choose from. It may be the absolute worst choice of candidates on either side since the very first election that I voted in since 1976!

Sanders= Socialism
Trump= delusion-ism ("Everyone loves me!")
Bush= Cry baby-ism
Clinton= Clinton-ism (need I say more= lying cheating, scandal, etc.)
Walker and Rubio appears to be the best of the lot, but I'm not too sure that you could roll them up together and come out with a good presidential candidate?

Extreme sad state of affairs for American democracy and the future!

Other countries are sitting back laughing at us right now. We treat the election as if it is another sporting event. We take sides even if one side has a good idea the other will shoot it down so the other side doesnt get credit. We treat it like a reality show. They know even if we get a great president in 4 years half of americans will be going against him and having no respect for the office so all the other leaders in the world can sit back and wait each one of our presidents out. If we ever get a great president again I would support no term limit and we understand that he can be voted out at any time but as long as he is doing a great job why rock the boat every 4 years.

 

[tiger_echoes]

libertarian candidate

 

[treetiger]

It's hard to argue that the last great president this country had may have been President Reagan. The only good thing about the above list of presidential candidates is that Trump appears to be intolerant of some of the schemes that Russia and Iran are doing. He would be quick to tap the nuclear red button, but he fails to realize that he cannot push that button by himself, a fail-safe designed into the system. Trump talks a big story, but in the day of extreme political bi-parasitism he would have a pistol on his side with blanks. And yes, not EVERYONE would be so quick to "love" him as his rich little delusional mind might believe! I believe that if anyone believes, Trump believes this is all some kind of reality show. It appears that we too may be soon over-run with Muslim immigrants who will be trying to force their system of beliefs and way of life on this country, and the outcome will look very similar to England, France, Belgium and Germany!

 

[CLT-Tiger]

Other countries are sitting back laughing at us right now. We treat the election as if it is another sporting event. We take sides even if one side has a good idea the other will shoot it down so the other side doesnt get credit. We treat it like a reality show. They know even if we get a great president in 4 years half of americans will be going against him and having no respect for the office so all the other leaders in the world can sit back and wait each one of our presidents out. If we ever get a great president again I would support no term limit and we understand that he can be voted out at any time but as long as he is doing a great job why rock the boat every 4 years.

I would say term limits are essential for all three branches, our founding fathers did not intend for political office to be a life long career. Unfortunately our elected officials will never vote to unseat themselves, so they will always be beholden to special interest groups, etc... Thank God we do have an eight year max for the executive branch.

My first job out of college was with Wachovia. They required everyone to take an annual vacation of a minimum of 5 consecutive business days off. The theory was that if you were embezzling your little scheme would unravel without your constant presence. Apply that concept to political office, these people need to be changed on a regular basis to ensure that you have people that are actually working for the people.

 

[toolucky52384]

You know, people keep calling Trump an idiot but he quickly rose to the top of the GOP polls & has managed to keep the top spot for months now without actually saying anything of substance, politically speaking...

Maybe he's not the idiot some of y'all make him out to be...

Maybe Americans are mostly idiots.

 

[treetiger]

jimbob1019 said: ↑
You know, people keep calling Trump an idiot but he quickly rose to the top of the GOP polls & has managed to keep the top spot for months now without actually saying anything of substance, politically speaking...

Maybe he's not the idiot some of y'all make him out to be...
___________________________________________________________________________________________

And that is absolutely amazing as to how he can still be ahead and has so often turned away when asked about his plans and policies! He says little with any subsistence regarding his plans, and when he does it doesn't make any sense anyway.

He truly believes in what he said about taking a gun and shooting someone and still not drop in the polls. Why, because he believe "everyone loves him."

 

[diehardtiger1989]

I would say term limits are essential for all three branches, our founding fathers did not intend for political office to be a life long career. Unfortunately our elected officials will never vote to unseat themselves, so they will always be beholden to special interest groups, etc... Thank God we do have an eight year max for the executive branch.

My first job out of college was with Wachovia. They required everyone to take an annual vacation of a minimum of 5 consecutive business days off. The theory was that if you were embezzling your little scheme would unravel without your constant presence. Apply that concept to political office, these people need to be changed on a regular basis to ensure that you have people that are actually working for the people.

If I ran for president or even governor, my main platform would be based on passing laws for term limits for every office in government. People say we already have term limits...."the voter's booth".....that's a bunch of crap. The problem is getting congressmen or legislators to vote themselves out of office. It's a movement that has to come from the people. I would shame them and pull every skeleton out of the closet until I got enough votes to get it passed. We would actually have some pretty good people run for office, especially on the state level, f they knew there wasn't a 30 year incumbent to deal with.

 

[Clems0nTiger]

libertarian candidate

Gary Johnson 2016!

Still wish he could get enough popular votes for federal funding of the Libertarian Party and debate participation.

 

[other1]

A really good thing would be a strong third party, equal to the Dems and GOP.