Its not insecurity, it's my perception. If I was wrong, I apologize.
OT religious issue
- Thread starter SwampDonkee
- Start date
I don't have any problems with religion or people who prescribe to religious beliefs. I DO have a problem with some of the tenants espoused by my friends and family who are religious. For example, I have been told that if you don't believe in God/Christ, but have led the most positive, caring, loving, sharing life known to man you will still not get past the pearly gates. I am not sure what everyone else believes, but if the content of your character cannot get you into heaven, but belief in something (or someone) very difficult to prove exists can, that is when I start having logic breakdowns in my head.
So as a test, which one of the following gets into heaven:
1. Proclaimed Christian of extremely poor moral character. Saved and Baptized, just doesn't live the word.
2. Serial killer who accepts Jesus as his savior 6 hrs before lethal injection.
3. Person who doesn't believe but is of the highest moral character with nothing but kindness and love in their hearts.
4. Someone who believes in Buddhism, Judiasm, Hinduism or some other religion that doesn't subscribe to the God/Jesus Christian teachings.
I believe most would agree that #1 & #2 get to heaven, but most would also agree that #3 doesn't. I really have no idea what most Christians think of #4.
The problem is that there is a lot in the bible. It is easy to pull sections, analyze them to death and come up crazy stuff. People should be very careful about taking anything in the bible too literally and extrapolating anything, particularly the old testament.
I have had this debate with my mother numerous times. I think it comes down to defining what it means to accept Christ. I think it means more than believing anything literal about Christ, his life, or how he exists. I think it means taking his principles to your heart. If you truly take Christ in your heart, then you will find it extremely difficult to not live the word. I also think you can take Christ into your heart without believing that he literally died on a cross and was raised from the dead.
Personally, I find it difficult to reconcile a God that rejects Ghandi or Bhuda.
It seems like almost every faith or sect makes their own interpretation. The passage below was once interpreted to mean that if the sun stood still, that confirmed that it orbited the earth. Early astronomers were killed as heretics when they reported that the earth revolved and only made it appear that the sun orbited the earth.
"It was then that Joshua proceeded to speak to Jehovah on the day of Jehovah’s abandoning the Amorites to the sons of Israel, and he went on to say before the eyes of Israel: 'Sun, be motionless over Gibeon, and, moon, over the low plain of Aijalon.' Accordingly the sun kept motionless, and the moon did stand still, until the nation could take vengeance on its enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun kept standing still in the middle of the heavens and did not hasten to set for about a whole day. And no day has proved to be like that one, either before it or after it, in that Jehovah listened to the voice of a man, for Jehovah himself was fighting for Israel."
-Joshua 10:12-14
There are a number of current instances where we are doing much the same thing on issues from condemning homosexuals to the beginning of life. What does it mean that Christ knew someone before they were born? Does it mean that a soul forms at conception or that Christ knew the future and knew who that person would become? Does Christ's condemnation of may laying with man condemn all homosexuals, or does it refer to the most prevalent form of homosexuality of his day, adult man with under aged boys?
It's easy for us to look at passages talking about angels sleeping with humans and producing giants and take it with a grain of salt. In another 50 years, what else will we know? Will we understand more about the human soul? I recall a study that measured body weight as subjects died and recorded a weight reduction. Was that the soul? When and how does it form?
I live in the area just a few miles from New Prospect Baptist church and I’m a Christian that goes to another local southern baptist church. I would consider New Prospect to be a sound conservative church. Also, I have friends that attend New Prospect that I consider to be very reasonable, loving people.
This is the first I’ve heard of either of these 2 subjects. In fact I’m shocked that anyone would believe that kind of nonsense in a church like New Prospect. Well, maybe not totally shocked as you always end up with some people in every church that love those kind of subjects when they study the Bible. Usually you have a few that love Revelation and end times theology, but angels recently mating with people and a 3 year old prophet? No
I’ll do some checking around but I think your parents may be alone on this. At least I hope so.
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Never heard of a 3 year old. The Bible talks about fallen angels having sex with women. Nephilim.
Could be stuff from the non biblical book of Enoch they are into.
Well wouldn't you agree the Bible has been around a long time?
I'd ask djbork67. He is our resident expert on all things religious.
hmmmmmmmmmmm, as I've bolded above.........................you must be a Lefty............not wanting to hear an opinion that you don't agree with. Amirite? Go to our safe space
God would send someone to eternal hell simply because they struggle believing? Wow, what a great guy
Too many people saw and wrote about Christ including his resurrection. Never saw a writing of a 3 Year old dying and becoming a prophet.
Who saw Jesus and wrote about him?
Sincerely asking, this is new information for me.
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You sound like someone that is a thinker.
I suspect you are an enjoyable and logical conversationalist.
Here's hoping you do some study on your first paragraph's questions.
The answers are pretty easy to find, while many times, very hard to understand.
Or believe.
The finite mind cannot grasp infinite wisdom.
Therein begins the 'ears to hear' and the 'eyes to see' ..........resulting in faith.
There is no human logic progression towards Heaven.
Whether a good man or a bad man.
There is only One Way.
Search it out.
I have a much bigger problem with organized religion than what you described.
1. Can we agree that God is omniscient?
2. Can we agree that when I was created He knew at that exact second whether I would go to heaven or hell?
3. Did I choose my own mind/intelligence, etc. combined with my own life experiences and upbringing?
4. Can we agree that it seems messed up that I did not choose my own mind nor did I choose my own life experiences that shape that mind?
5. God created me (and you) with a unique mind and unique life. There is no such thing as free thought. Everything is based on biology and random life experience (none of which are controlled by the person).
For this simple reason I would never believe in organized religion. I am not picking on Christianity specifically, but all of them. I think we can all agree that no one knows the answer. I am not saying there is not a God, but I can say with absolute certainty that there is not a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc one.
Nevermind the hundreds if not thousands of historical inaccuracies and improbabilities contained in these texts.
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Such a serious subject you enter
in such a flippant and shallow manner.
Question: Does everyone go to (much less deserve) Heaven?
Anyone?
Is there a Heaven?
Is there a Hell?
It can get pretty deep, pretty quick.
How many people saw and wrote about the resurrection?
I just saw, in writing, in this very thread, an account that a 3 year old went to heaven and is now a prophet. This is a myth that has been passed from OP’s parents to OP to OP’s children and has now been put in writing and spread to the masses. Much like most of what’s in the Bible today.
There is only One.
There can be only One. Think about it.
I guess one can believe that Marvel comics are real and there's all these 'gods'.
And, yes He is omniscient.
And, yes He knew/knows your eternal destiny before the World even began.
Then you seem to slide off the ride just a bit on the next 2.
Wish we could have a site for TigerIllustrated members to discuss Religion and God on a separate Forum.
I have considered starting one.............just for this Family I care so much for.
........well, most of you
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there are numerous non-Christian, Roman historical texts (written by Tactius??? Something like that) that discuss Jesus, specifically his baptism by John the Baptist, his sermon on the mount, entrance into Jerusalem, his outburst at the Temple and his sentence and crucifixion by Ponticus Pilate. Those are historical events .... the whole “son of God” can certainly be debated by some but his existence cannot
It always amazes me.
Smart people like you, who no one is trying to convert or evangelize, who speaks only with disdain about other's Religious beliefs (and for sure some are very weird)........but you can't stay OUT of these discussions. You obviously must just want to be a bully about it all and make fun of people.
Why?
Why not just ignore it all and move along?
But, you're like a moth to a flame..........trying to get people to see it your way.
Your "Thoughts Long" are always more well done and open minded .....even kinder.... than your comments about Religion, even when your thoughts about players or the team are contrary.
Ever wondered why you can't leave these discussions alone?
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He said numerous people "saw and wrote about Christ"
Unless new information is out that I am not aware of, that is not true.
Prefacing again given the nature of the subject and how I troll on here, being sincere.
Agreed. Jesus as historical figure is pretty well documented. Now, whether he was the Son of God or a cult-like figure is not.
Can't believe no one knew about the kid story. It was a big thing a few years ago. It's a book and a movie. Not saying it's real or anything--just knew about it.
christandpopculture.com
Is anyone really shocked anyone these days believe outlandish things religious or otherwise?
How Christians Should Respond to Heaven is for Real
Should Christians embrace Heaven is for Real with open arms or, should followers of Jesus proceed with caution?
christandpopculture.com
Is anyone really shocked anyone these days believe outlandish things religious or otherwise?
Like I said, there are a few Roman texts that mention Jesus from a historical perspective and most certainly his sentence by Ponticus Pilate.
give it a Google. Not hard to find
Me too, was there whenever the doors opened. RA's, choir practice, Sunday School, Sunday morning and night, Wednesday prayer meeting, VBS. etc. Then I moved away to Clemson, Met others who had different childhood brainwashing, thought for myself and then headed over to G'ville with the other guys to stack beer cans in front of BJU and thought that the Central Dance Committee was the most enlightened group on campus. Just make sure your kids are exposed to as much rational thinking as possible and explain to them the difference facts and fantasy. They should dream big and make it happen.
Yea, I know of those non contemporary accounts.
The way I read his post he was insinuating people who actually saw him wrote about him.
Bart Ehrman @ UNC has some compelling views on a lot of this-especially how the early church re-invented the Christ cult movement and how it latched on to the expansion of the Roman Empire. None of the early church took the religious texts literally. The need for literal truth instead of metaphorical truth didn't become mainstream until the enlightenment. By that point, the mystical qualities of the desert fathers, etc had been diminished in favor of using the who's in/who's out of it all as a means of crowd control and after life insurance.
There's something in us that needs religion. We need a myth to unify cultures, etc. (The overarching problem in our country right now is the lack of such a myth.) Religion was a good means to explain why things happened- before we had science to explain how thunder and lightening actually work. And, psychologically- there's a need to believe is some omnipotent entity that's keeping watch over us, because its freaking terrifying to contemplate the fact that we're essentially insignificant bits of dust on rock spinning and tilting and rotating around a dying star in an endless expanse of galaxies.
There was a article in Time a few weeks ago about how only 47% of Americans say they belong to a church (mosque or synagogue). Too me that is sad and terrible .... BUT what made the article even more awful was that there was a direct correlation between that decline and the incline in people who say they are more politically active .....
Soooooo as a society, we are replacing something that brings people and communities together with something that drives us further and further apart ....
Talk to your sister &/or brother in law about your discomfort. Inquire about their belief or disbelief in this kind of “addition” to Scripture so you can wrestle through the belief side of this issue.
No offense at all to you OP, but Just to be clear: neither of those 2 ideas/teaching come from Southern Baptist faith.
I’d be happy to talk more with you, just give me a shout.
Yes. And, I think it’s a bit more complex than you’re acknowledging- and you give religion more credit than I would for bringing communities together- but I agree with the notion that our our approach to politics reflects the decline of religion as a central myth of our culture.
Crazy religious people is nothing new. Crazy fvckers in backwoods Appalachia have literally been handling rattlesnakes in church for years
To answer your question, no, people in the area aren’t trending in this direction, you’re experiencing a one-off. Your parent’s church more than likely just has a crazy person in an influential area. Sounds like your wife may be trying to paint the area with a wide brush
I have noticed a lot of religious people I know have been really doubling-down and becoming more devout in their beliefs due to a perception of the world going insane, which is completely understandable
Avoid the insane religious people and zealot anti-religion types, teach your kids the Bible and not some whack-jobs interpretation of it and move on. At least that’s how I’m doing it.
To answer your question, no, people in the area aren’t trending in this direction, you’re experiencing a one-off. Your parent’s church more than likely just has a crazy person in an influential area. Sounds like your wife may be trying to paint the area with a wide brush
I have noticed a lot of religious people I know have been really doubling-down and becoming more devout in their beliefs due to a perception of the world going insane, which is completely understandable
Avoid the insane religious people and zealot anti-religion types, teach your kids the Bible and not some whack-jobs interpretation of it and move on. At least that’s how I’m doing it.
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