OT: Sexual assault allegations
- Thread starter amynhop
- Start date
I used to think you were just incredibly simple. The more i see, the less sure I am that you aren’t a brilliant troll.
amy, you being essentially the only woman on this message board doesn't make you an authority on women in general. like, at all.
Nothing simple about me and I'm not trolling. Don't insult strangers on a message board, either.
I would say it makes me much more of an authority than you men.
that might be true if you didn't hold such myopic views. your attempts to generalize men and women itt prove that you really don't know much, and probably aren't exposed to much outside your little bubble.
***too much**** I do know grammar....
WAIT! Are we saying that over history men have pursued women , some times inappropriately! I am shocked. The government ought to do something about this!
no, you rube. i wasn't using "too." think "exposure to the elements," not "she exposed too much skin which clearly meant she was asking for it."
Look man...any group can be generalized based on statistical norms. It doesn't mean every person fits a generalization and no one should take a generalization and make it an imperative about a group. What's really ironic is that you and others are generalizing about the type of woman you think @amynhop is which demonstrates the 1 inch deep intellectual thought going on here.
If you study any psychology, it doesn't take long to understand the reasons for people wearing some of the things they wear. If you went to work and saw a dude in a speedo and spandex top, you'd know he's trying to show off his junk. Does that mean a woman or man trying to be sexy should be subject to inappropriate or suggestive comments? Of course not. One has nothing to do with the other and a woman dressed in skimpy clothing doesn't deserve to be treated like a piece of meat. That being said, a woman dressed like that is going to attract attention and that should not be offensive. It's the reason for dressing that way to start with.
These situations are very complicated. There are a lot of double standards that go both ways. It's why men and women have always had trouble understanding one another. It's an age old issue that isn't going away. So much of that is depicted in this thread.
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I don't put any stock in what a woman says when she waits 30 odd years to say anything . They didn't mind at the time as it might help their careers but now it is fashionable to say you were groped.
I would also suggest that all these defenders of modern "feminism" should spend some time listening to Camile Paglia talk about this. She's the real deal and it won't take long to get an idea of how she views the ridiculously stupid notions that we float around in society now. It's just insane!
Exactly. It is ironic how many try to generalize what type of woman I am based on my posts. That I'm somehow " anti-women". I see nothing wrong with wearing a sexy dress. I do it myself. I don't dress in clothes that hide my body. I work hard to be in shape and am proud of my body. But I'm not going to run crying when I have on a sexy dress and get attention. Just ignore it. And I've been sexually assaulted too. So I think I'm much more qualified to speak than the majority of you.
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It is now revealed that @amynhop is the woman in the orange dress! What a scandal!She said it above she likes to wear those dresses on occasion.
Nah..... nothing that revealing.
Nah..... nothing that revealing.
Oh I know. I'm just generalizing you! It seems to be in vogue!
Overall, I think it's a good thing. This sort of thing has been going on for years. So much so that it's part of our culture. Check out movies from the 40's, 50's, and 60's where the "hero" kisses the girl, but she says no. He then forces himself on her and she gives in b/c she really wanted it to happen all the time. That's a horrible message to send (especially to young men who don't know what they are doing but are pretending they do). But this was absolutely the norm in Hollywood for a generation or more. The fact of the matter is that most men can overpower most women (of course there are exceptions), but when there is a large difference in power (physical in this case), no HAS to mean no. Men need to get on board with that and women do as well. No can't mean "maybe" when it comes out of a woman's mouth either.
Now that the above has been said, I do think that there are a ton of folk out there throwing these charges around that don't know what sexual assault/harassment really is. IMHO, assault isn't a simple laying on of hands (or a grope) of private areas (although the law certainly reads differently for regular and sexual assault), but is a repeated and/or violent unwanted touching. That's fairly straightforward. Harassment is a MUCH more complicated beast. The key here is the unwanted part. I've worked with women and men that thought saying good morning involved a hug or an arm around my shoulders. Now I don't particularly like folks touching me that I don't know well. Am I being sexually harassed? Not at all IMHO. The key here is that I've never told these folks that their behavior bothers me. IF I did ask them to stop and they continued OR they stopped and then held it against me in a measurable way at work THAT is sexual harassment.
Here's an example (and we'll use @amynhop and myself as examples). Amy is the CEO of a company. I am the young guy in the mail room. Not very bright, but man do I fill out my Dickies' coveralls just right. Forward to the company Christmas party. Open bar, everyone's having a good time. Amy decides that she needs a new boy toy and starts plying me with drinks. We are talking and Amy suggests we go outside on the balcony. We do and she puts her arms around me and moves in for the kiss, which being a married guy, I don't want and move away from her.
At this point NOTHING illegal or untoward has occurred. At the very worst, you could question Amy's judgment for putting the moves on someone she is in charge of. If I were to accuse her of harassment at this point, I would be completely off base. She made a pass at me, I said no thanks, end of story. Now if she continues to make passes (and I'd submit that you should probably allow two w/o complaining) and I continue to say no thanks, then she HAS to stop (or it IS sexual harassment). If Amy were to do anything in a professional capacity as CEO to retaliate against me for saying no, that would also constitute harassment.
But a person who makes an unwanted pass at someone isn't doing anything wrong unless the other person lets them know that their attentions are unwelcome.
And at what point are there unintended consequences of women not being as welcome in the workplace? I mean, when are male hiring managers going to be afraid to hire women? I don't look for it to become a widespread hiring practice to avoid women, but I do certainly feel like it could start happening subconsciously. Def not saying women need to just keep their traps shut if they are being legitimately harassed, but people would be well served to understand the difference between harassment and uninvited attention. Also believe the current pile-on mentality needs to stop.
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Interesting coming from a woman who once created an entire thread on here how she was offended by a guy wearing a tank top that she was forced to view while eating at Halls.
Good thing that dude did not wink at you or you'd have likely really freaked out. But, hey, maybe you were showing too much cleavage. Because all women who dress nicely are seeking male attention, Right? Or, maybe if he looked like Brad Pitt it would have been a whole other thread.
Hey? Since you've admitted you (and all women) sometimes dress just for male attention, and you're married, are you not inviting the temptation to cheat on your spouse? Or, for a married man who happens to see you to cheat? I think that is against the vows of marriage. You should only dress that way in the private presence of your husband. Anything beyond that and you're inviting temptation.
Just so offensive.
Ice, you are naive or testosterone deprived or both. As heterosexual men, we are wired to notice females, to assess there attractiveness, and to try to judge whether they might want to mate with us. That’s just evolution. Evolution also turned humans into hunters who relied primarily on sight to find prey. And no, I’m not saying women are prey.
I AM saying that people are wired to want sex. And men are especially sensitive to visual cues.
Thus, if women wear clothing that puts the parts of them on display that men find most attractive, it will invite ogling at a minimum. Sometimes more from asshats that can’t control their mouths or hands.
My girls are free to wear whatever they like. But daddy has also made them aware that boys are pigs by nature. It’s best not to make them think the trough is open.
Plus two of the three are getting ready to test for their black belts after training in karate for the last seven years. The youngest is a two time state champion in fighting. And she’s mean as a snake. So, as Mr. T used to say, “I pity the fool” who lays inappropriate hands on that one especially.
Let's be clear.... You would be the one making the move on me.
And add in the fact that I am neither young nor do I fill out my coveralls "just right", and my moves would be just as unwelcome as ones in the above made up story.
people being wired to want sex (both men and women), and openly expressing their opinions to women because of what they wore on a given day are different things. one is natural. one is ****ing sexual harassment.
men should be taught to control themselves like adults. Women should NOT be taught that to avoid men sexually harassing them they have to dress a particular way, or say particular things, or not go to certain places. This is not on women to mitigate. this is on men to not act like "asshats".
Men are capable of controlling themselves. they just need to be taught. this culture of appeasement of sexual harassment because "boys will be boys" is ****ing wrong. Boys arent entitled to comment, they arent entitled to touch, and they arent entitled to appeasement because they cant control themselves around women.
that argument is not more than a step or two removed from MAKE THEM WEAR HIJABS BECAUSE MEN CANT CONTROL THEMSELVES.
amy, pretty much every woman I know would tell you to GFY with that comment. you are certainly more qualified than I am to speak to your own personal motivations. If thats why you dress a particular way, great. thats your choice. that doesnt mean you should expect to be sexually harassed. or that its ok. or that you invited it.
abso****inglutely not. its not a woman's job to deal with it. verbally harassing a woman because of the way she dressed is ****ing wrong, and women should not just have to handle it on their own. its wrong. full stop.
are you a predator? do you think you get to walk down the street and say whatever you'd like to women because they are wearing tight pants, or their cleavage is showing and its their job too deal with it? **** me.
this culture exists everywhere. EVERYWHERE. thats the point. fox news. churches. the business community. its EVERYWHERE. and its wrong.
My post said nothing about it being ok to sexually harass a woman because of the way she is dressed. Because it certainly isn't.
So let me see if I have this straight.... a woman who dresses like this should not expect a man to make any comments about the way she's dressed? I'm certainly NOT suggesting that a woman dressed like this gives a man any right to touch or assault her. Absolutely not! But this chick should be expecting a lot of inappropriate comments. Because she's going to get them. Men are very "visual" creatures.
1. that women is RIDICULOUSLY attractive (who is it).
2. NO. a woman who dresses like that is not inviting those men to say anything to her. they can keep their ****ing mouths shut like adults.
3. men can control themselves. stop giving them a pass because a women dresses a certain way.
yes, it did. suggesting that a women who dresses a certain way should expect comments is exactly that. she should expect men to not act like little ****ing children incapable of controlling themselves. comments can be sexual harassment.
True but it's a far greater % in Hollyweird, where Democrats get a ton of money.
or maybe it will force managers to be more selective with the men they're hiring?
You are so tied up in proving your point that you’ve missed mine twice. There is no excuse —none, zero, nada — for anyone to sexually harass anyone. No matter which direction it goes. And of course any civilized person should teach their offspring that fact.
BUT....I don’t park in the bad part of town, leave my doors unlocked and a hundred dollar bill on the dashboard either. Sure MOST people are honest and would walk on by. But it just takes the lone criminal and I’m out a hundy.
To spout some bullshit pc credo as you do ignores the fact that despite your pie-in-the-sky outrage, there are and will always be some assholes who think that a short skirt and a flash of cleavage is an invitation to comment and/or to get handsy.
My message to my kids is that if they make that choice, it increases the chance of attention from said assholes. If that’s a risk they feel worth taking, that’s their decision. But I’d rather they be aware of reality than to be naive and pretend that just because a billboard declares that provocative clothing ain’t going to provoke, means it won’t happen. And that’s also why I’ve had them training to defend themselves for more than half their lives.
I said a woman wearing the "vagina dress" is going to get comments. Not sure how any woman bold enough to wear that provocative dress doesn't have a few lewd comments coming her way. Here's a revelation! If you are offended by vulgar comments, don't go out in public vulgarly dressed, exposing your vagina. Keep her covered.
Why does allegations against a dead person seem unfair? It’s unfair that most guys in this world are losers that cross a line with women, but when the Bible takes away women’s rights what do you expect?
