Trump’s authoritarian America

[yoshi121374]

Maybe you didn’t read the first half of my statement. I was pretty clear in stating that both parties are guilty of most if not all of the things I listed. Does that make Democrats less dangerous then? Because the Republicans are doing it too?

Regarding twitter files- It’s also been revealed that Trumps White House also actively pressured the social media companies to blacklist or suppress certain accounts. Nevertheless, no matter who was in office at the time, democratic operatives mislead and pressured employees to censure accounts and suppress stories. I could care less what the story was about, nor do I care if had any sort of affect on the election.

Regarding the mandates. Where does it stop? Why does the gov’t get to arbitrarily decide when to force its will on the people? It’s cool to tell businesses to shut down?

Seems reasonable that nurse has to get a vaccine or lose her job? Or a Marine has to get a shot or lose his job?

The problem for Libertarians is that it's completely impractical. We need rules, we need oversight. I am fine with a mandate for the Military or nurses. They don't have to have those jobs if they don't feel like they should get a vaccine. Do you think it should be illegal for Chick fil-a to require male employees to shave their face to work there?

We also shouldn't act like a global pandemic that happens once every 100 years is some sort of normal everyday occurrence. Those types of instances may require less freedoms for the overall good. We had typically had reductions of freedoms during emergencies. Citizens were on strict rational during WW2 for example.

 

[dbjork6317]

The problem for Libertarians is that it's completely impractical. We need rules, we need oversight. I am fine with a mandate for the Military or nurses. They don't have to have those jobs if they don't feel like they should get a vaccine. Do you think it should be illegal for Chick fil-a to require male employees to shave their face to work there?

We also shouldn't act like a global pandemic that happens once every 100 years is some sort of normal everyday occurrence. Those types of instances may require less freedoms for the overall good. We had typically had reductions of freedoms during emergencies. Citizens were on strict rational during WW2 for example.

During WW2 we put American citizens into Concentration camps.

 

[dpic73]

Maybe you didn’t read the first half of my statement. I was pretty clear in stating that both parties are guilty of most if not all of the things I listed. Does that make Democrats less dangerous then? Because the Republicans are doing it too?

Regarding twitter files- It’s also been revealed that Trumps White House also actively pressured the social media companies to blacklist or suppress certain accounts. Nevertheless, no matter who was in office at the time, democratic operatives mislead and pressured employees to censure accounts and suppress stories. I could care less what the story was about, nor do I care if had any sort of affect on the election.

Regarding the mandates. Where does it stop? Why does the gov’t get to arbitrarily decide when to force its will on the people? It’s cool to tell businesses to shut down?

Seems reasonable that nurse has to get a vaccine or lose her job? Or a Marine has to get a shot or lose his job?

My apologies if I misunderstood your post but I get a little aggravated with people that claim things that happened on twitter were responsible for Trump's loss. If one social media platform is responsible for all the information a person uses to make their voting decision, should they even be allowed to vote? SMH

Regarding the mandates. Where does it stop? Why does the gov’t get to arbitrarily decide when to force its will on the people? It’s cool to tell businesses to shut down?

The temporary mandates ended when the worst of it was over but even when they ended many businesses chose to stay closed due to staffing shortages and/or unwillingness to reopen until it was safer to do so. They also received PPP loans to keep them afloat for a while. But remember, this was an unprecedented event so can we please give the authorities a little bit of grace since they had to grapple with some of the toughest decisions of their lives? They got some things wrong but let's learn from it and move on instead of acting like this was evidence of a commonly used tactic of the deep state to control people against their will.

Seems reasonable that nurse has to get a vaccine or lose her job?

Absolutely and I don't understand how you could argue otherwise. They work daily with many people who are immune-compromised and need to be able to trust that medical professionals, at the very least, can be trusted to provide them as much protection as possible.

Or a Marine has to get a shot or lose his job?

They are required to take a host of other vaccines, so why not this one?

Hey man, don't take this as beating up on you because you seem like a fairly reasonable dude and I welcome your input here. Please keep posting! ;-)

 

[dbjork6317]

My apologies if I misunderstood your post but I get a little aggravated with people that claim things that happened on twitter were responsible for Trump's loss. If one social media platform is responsible for all the information a person uses to make their voting decision, should they even be allowed to vote? SMH

The temporary mandates ended when the worst of it was over but even when they ended many businesses chose to stay closed due to staffing shortages and/or unwillingness to reopen until it was safer to do so. They also received PPP loans to keep them afloat for a while. But remember, this was an unprecedented event so can we please give the authorities a little bit of grace since they had to grapple with some of the toughest decisions of their lives? They got some things wrong but let's learn from it and move on instead of acting like this was evidence of a commonly used tactic of the deep state to control people against their will.

Absolutely and I don't understand how you could argue otherwise. They work daily with many people who are immune-compromised and need to be able to trust that medical professionals, at the very least, can be trusted to provide them as much protection as possible.

They are required to take a host of other vaccines, so why not this one?

Hey man, don't take this as beating up on you because you seem like a fairly reasonable dude and I welcome your input here. Please keep posting! ;-)

Its so weird that people act like vaccine requirements for nurses/military/etc is a new thing. They’ve been around for decades so I’m not sure why people are upset about it now, other than the general rejection of previously accepted scientific facts that post-truthism has brought about.

 

[Budgripe86]

The problem for Libertarians is that it's completely impractical. We need rules, we need oversight. I am fine with a mandate for the Military or nurses. They don't have to have those jobs if they don't feel like they should get a vaccine. Do you think it should be illegal for Chick fil-a to require male employees to shave their face to work there?

We also shouldn't act like a global pandemic that happens once every 100 years is some sort of normal everyday occurrence. Those types of instances may require less freedoms for the overall good. We had typically had reductions of freedoms during emergencies. Citizens were on strict rational during WW2 for example.

The problem for Libertarians is that it's completely impractical. We need rules, we need oversight. I am fine with a mandate for the Military or nurses. They don't have to have those jobs if they don't feel like they should get a vaccine. Do you think it should be illegal for Chick fil-a to require male employees to shave their face to work there?

We also shouldn't act like a global pandemic that happens once every 100 years is some sort of normal everyday occurrence. Those types of instances may require less freedoms for the overall good. We had typically had reductions of freedoms during emergencies. Citizens were on strict rational during WW2 for example.

Chick-fil-A informs applicants in the interview process of the no hair policy. They’re welcome to walk out the door at that point. Plus, it’s a private business that as a consumer I’m not obligated to give $$ to if I believe their policies are unfair or unjust in any way.

We had typically had reductions of freedoms during emergencies. Citizens were on strict rational during WW2 for example.

I think I understand your point here. I don’t think because the precedent as been set that it automatically makes it permissible. I think history proves that out, give a little now- take more later etc. Hell, 70 yrs ago I probably would’ve been protesting those reductions in freedom, even in the face of a world conflict 😂

 

[Budgripe86]

I think I understand your point here. I don’t think because the precedent as been set that it automatically makes it permissible. I think history proves that out, give a little now- take more later etc. Hell, 70 yrs ago I probably would’ve been protesting those reductions in freedom, even in the face of a world conflict 😂

@yoshi121374 my apologies on butchering that reply. I’m still trying to figure out how to copy paste and made a giant mess hahaha

 

[yoshi121374]

@yoshi121374 my apologies on butchering that reply. I’m still trying to figure out how to copy paste and made a giant mess hahaha

All good. I appreciate the measured and weighted positions. Just because we don't agree isn't bad, it just makes the discussions more interesting. Keep posting, we need better discussions lol

 

[Budgripe86]

My apologies if I misunderstood your post but I get a little aggravated with people that claim things that happened on twitter were responsible for Trump's loss. If one social media platform is responsible for all the information a person uses to make their voting decision, should they even be allowed to vote? SMH

The temporary mandates ended when the worst of it was over but even when they ended many businesses chose to stay closed due to staffing shortages and/or unwillingness to reopen until it was safer to do so. They also received PPP loans to keep them afloat for a while. But remember, this was an unprecedented event so can we please give the authorities a little bit of grace since they had to grapple with some of the toughest decisions of their lives? They got some things wrong but let's learn from it and move on instead of acting like this was evidence of a commonly used tactic of the deep state to control people against their will.

Absolutely and I don't understand how you could argue otherwise. They work daily with many people who are immune-compromised and need to be able to trust that medical professionals, at the very least, can be trusted to provide them as much protection as possible.

They are required to take a host of other vaccines, so why not this one?

Hey man, don't take this as beating up on you because you seem like a fairly reasonable dude and I welcome your input here. Please keep posting! ;-)

Hey man, I don’t take this as being beat up on. At all. You and @yoshi121374 are both raising great points. After reading some posts from certain other board members I can see how you both could assume I’m a right wing nut job from some of the concerns I’ve laid out.

 

[Budgripe86]

It’s so weird that people act like vaccine requirements for nurses/military/etc is a new thing. They’ve been around for decades so I’m not sure why people are upset about it now, other than the general rejection of previously accepted scientific facts that post-truthism has brought about.

I completely agree with your statement. One of my concerns was the rush to mandate a new vaccine, with a newish delivery system, whose efficacy/safety hadn't been completely proven. As I’m sure you remember, it was originally touted as able to stop the spread of Covid. Now we know that it reduces the risk of severe symptoms, which for the elderly or immune compromised is a great thing! As of now we have no proven data that it has severe long term effects. And I’m saying, we potentially dodged a bullet, because NO ONE knew anything about it. Or if the manufacturers knew and lied to the gov’t/people then shame on them for misleading everyone, they should be held accountable. But won’t. Thanks Reagan.
I wonder how many people died because they went to a family function where everyone was vaccinated, and believed they were safe because everyone was fully vaxxed?

 

[scotchtiger]

Its so weird that people act like vaccine requirements for nurses/military/etc is a new thing. They’ve been around for decades so I’m not sure why people are upset about it now, other than the general rejection of previously accepted scientific facts that post-truthism has brought about.

I think there's a difference between decades-old vaccines with time proven efficacy and safety vs. a rushed vaccine with no history. And it's fair for people to have different feelings on those things. We also know that the Covid vaccine does not prevent the spread of the virus, whereas other vaccines have largely eradicated diseases. Just because they are both called vaccines does not mean that they are the same or should be treated the same.

 

[flotiger]

Hey man, I don’t take this as being beat up on. At all. You and @yoshi121374 are both raising great points. After reading some posts from certain other board members I can see how you both could assume I’m a right wing nut job from some of the concerns I’ve laid out.

Yeah. Even I may have jumped to that conclusion....mea culpa.

 

[dbjork6317]

I completely agree with your statement. One of my concerns was the rush to mandate a new vaccine, with a newish delivery system, whose efficacy/safety hadn't been completely proven. As I’m sure you remember, it was originally touted as able to stop the spread of Covid. Now we know that it reduces the risk of severe symptoms, which for the elderly or immune compromised is a great thing! As of now we have no proven data that it has severe long term effects. And I’m saying, we potentially dodged a bullet, because NO ONE knew anything about it. Or if the manufacturers knew and lied to the gov’t/people then shame on them for misleading everyone, they should be held accountable. But won’t. Thanks Reagan.
I wonder how many people died because they went to a family function where everyone was vaccinated, and believed they were safe because everyone was fully vaxxed?

I think there's a difference between decades-old vaccines with time proven efficacy and safety vs. a rushed vaccine with no history. And it's fair for people to have different feelings on those things. We also know that the Covid vaccine does not prevent the spread of the virus, whereas other vaccines have largely eradicated diseases. Just because they are both called vaccines does not mean that they are the same or should be treated the same.

I’d be interested to see where any expert said that the vaccine would completely stop the spread of Covid. Maybe they did and I missed it, but vaccines generally don’t stop the virus from spreading, rather they mitigate symptoms and significantly slow the mutation of the virus, which is why we haven’t gone through multiple strands/variants of covid like we did before vaccines or very early in their roll out. The slowing of mutation allows us to build up enough antibodies over time that the virus is more easily combated and slower to spread.

Just like the flu vaccine doesn’t stop the flu, and a new vaccine is needed annually to keep up with the virus’s mutations, the same will be true for covid going forward.

Also, previous vaccines did not completely eradicate diseases, which is evidenced by diseases long thought dead are popping back up now that there are more people not vaccinating their children.

The idea that the vaccine was rushed and unsafe is simply untrue. The vaccine went through the exact same testing rigors as any other vaccine. Yes, the process was sped up, but it didn’t skip any step of the testing and approval process. And it shouldn’t be surprising that it was made quickly, you had every major pharmaceutical company in the world devoting essentially 100% of its resources to creating a vaccine for which there was already a baseline since we’ve created vaccines for other coronaviruses in the past.

The vaccine should be touted as a shining example of what private industry can accomplish when the government removes certain restrictions, which Republicans should love. But instead conservatives just like to spit out untrue gobbledygook. Although at this point gobbledygook seems to be the center of the Republican ethos.

 

[scotchtiger]

I’d be interested to see where any expert said that the vaccine would completely stop the spread of Covid. Maybe they did and I missed it, but vaccines generally don’t stop the virus from spreading, rather they mitigate symptoms and significantly slow the mutation of the virus, which is why we haven’t gone through multiple strands/variants of covid like we did before vaccines or very early in their roll out. The slowing of mutation allows us to build up enough antibodies over time that the virus is more easily combated and slower to spread.

Just like the flu vaccine doesn’t stop the flu, and a new vaccine is needed annually to keep up with the virus’s mutations, the same will be true for covid going forward.

Also, previous vaccines did not completely eradicate diseases, which is evidenced by diseases long thought dead are popping back up now that there are more people not vaccinating their children.

The idea that the vaccine was rushed and unsafe is simply untrue. The vaccine went through the exact same testing rigors as any other vaccine. Yes, the process was sped up, but it didn’t skip any step of the testing and approval process. And it shouldn’t be surprising that it was made quickly, you had every major pharmaceutical company in the world devoting essentially 100% of its resources to creating a vaccine for which there was already a baseline since we’ve created vaccines for other coronaviruses in the past.

The vaccine should be touted as a shining example of what private industry can accomplish when the government removes certain restrictions, which Republicans should love. But instead conservatives just like to spit out untrue gobbledygook. Although at this point gobbledygook seems to be the center of the Republican ethos.

The flu vaccine is a good example. It is not mandatory, whereas vaccines for things like polio and hepatitis are.

The vaccine may have undergone the same testing, but there were no real-world, longterm results to evaluate. Unlike vaccines that have been around for a while.

Getting the vaccine completed was great. Vulnerable people should have received it. Healthy, low risk people should have been able to freely opt out, just as they can do for the flu vaccine.

We should have had a major nationwide campaign highlighting the drastically reduced risk of Covid if you maintain a healthy weight, exercise, get outside, take vitamins, eat healthy, etc. That should have been priority #1 and was always the best defense against Covid. My family is a great example. Zero issues with Covid or flu. Zero Covid or flu vaccines. And we didn't isolate.

 

[dbjork6317]

Healthy, low risk people should have been able to freely opt out, just as they can do for the flu vaccine.

They were and are able to opt out.

We should have had a major nationwide campaign highlighting the drastically reduced risk of Covid if you maintain a healthy weight, exercise, get outside, take vitamins, eat healthy, etc. That should have been priority #1 and was always the best defense against Covid. My family is a great example. Zero issues with Covid or flu. Zero Covid or flu vaccines. And we didn't isolate.

Yes because solving an obesity crisis through a marketing campaign would have so much easier and faster than a vaccine.

Your obsession with bragging about being thin is borderline narcissistic. We get you don’t like fat people, but stop whining about obesity while you still vote for politicians who openly mocked Michelle Obama for pushing for healthier school lunches.

 

[scotchtiger]

They were and are able to opt out.


Yes because solving an obesity crisis through a marketing campaign would have so much easier and faster than a vaccine.

Your obsession with bragging about being thin is borderline narcissistic. We get you don’t like fat people, but stop whining about obesity while you still vote for politicians who openly mocked Michelle Obama for pushing for healthier school lunches.

I'm not bragging about anything. Heck, I'm working on shedding a few pounds before a trip to Mexico in 2 weeks. It's just a fact that obesity had a direct correlation to Covid complications. It's also a fact that it causes many other healthcare issues, is a massive national epidemic and a huge burden on our healthcare system. It's also preventable, unlike things like cancer. If we want to fix healthcare, or reduce Covid complications, let's aggressively attack this issue.

My family's success against Covid and other things isn't just about weight. We put a lot of effort into nutrition, including vitamin levels. That makes a difference and it's something everyone should do.

I'm at the point where I hate both parties. There are plenty of things I don't like about Republican policies and would actually favor significant efforts to educate kids (and adults) about proper nutrition, provide healthy food alternatives (but balance that with stuff they will actually eat), invest in healthy options in food deserts and increase regulation on the absolute shit that is in our food supply. This is an underlying issue fueling our out-of-control healthcare costs, so addressing it will help downstream in many areas. Lower healthcare costs, lower health insurance premiums, lower Medicaid expenditure (see the food desert item), etc.

 

[dpic73]

I think there's a difference between decades-old vaccines with time proven efficacy and safety vs. a rushed vaccine with no history. And it's fair for people to have different feelings on those things. We also know that the Covid vaccine does not prevent the spread of the virus, whereas other vaccines have largely eradicated diseases. Just because they are both called vaccines does not mean that they are the same or should be treated the same.

I mean, they had only been working mRNA since the 70s and had successfully used it against the Ebola virus so it's untrue that they didn't understand the safety profile.

But why is that ONLY Republicans shared that concern and mock the vaccine and boosters to this day? Don't tell me it's for any other reason but politics because you'd be lying....or are Republicans the only ones who understand science?

 

[firegiver]

I'm not bragging about anything. Heck, I'm working on shedding a few pounds before a trip to Mexico in 2 weeks. It's just a fact that obesity had a direct correlation to Covid complications. It's also a fact that it causes many other healthcare issues, is a massive national epidemic and a huge burden on our healthcare system. It's also preventable, unlike things like cancer. If we want to fix healthcare, or reduce Covid complications, let's aggressively attack this issue.

My family's success against Covid and other things isn't just about weight. We put a lot of effort into nutrition, including vitamin levels. That makes a difference and it's something everyone should do.

I'm at the point where I hate both parties. There are plenty of things I don't like about Republican policies and would actually favor significant efforts to educate kids (and adults) about proper nutrition, provide healthy food alternatives (but balance that with stuff they will actually eat), invest in healthy options in food deserts and increase regulation on the absolute shit that is in our food supply. This is an underlying issue fueling our out-of-control healthcare costs, so addressing it will help downstream in many areas. Lower healthcare costs, lower health insurance premiums, lower Medicaid expenditure (see the food desert item), etc.

At some point this off-season/election season we should spend some time discussing economic policies rather than getting distracted by theatrics .

I'm no expert as I have no training or application in macroeconomics besides a intro course in college, but it seems to me historical evidence belies some of the points I've read here.

 

[scotchtiger]

I mean, they had only been working mRNA since the 70s and had successfully used it against the Ebola virus so it's untrue that they didn't understand the safety profile.

But why is that ONLY Republicans shared that concern and mock the vaccine and boosters to this day? Don't tell me it's for any other reason but politics because you'd be lying....or are Republicans the only ones who understand science?

My MIL is a Biden voter and adamantly opposed to the vaccine. It's not just Republicans, though many are certainly more vocal about mocking much of the unnecessary Covid hysteria, whether that be mask nazis, lock down enthusiasts or vaccine fascists.

See I can casually use nazi and fascist too!

 

[dpic73]

My MIL is a Biden voter and adamantly opposed to the vaccine. It's not just Republicans, though many are certainly more vocal about mocking much of the unnecessary Covid hysteria, whether that be mask nazis, lock down enthusiasts or vaccine fascists.

See I can casually use nazi and fascist too!

How cool that you found the one liberal who is against it! Let's not beat around the bush here because you know what I'm saying is true. The only people you've seen vocally opposed to it on social media, on tv and in real life are Republicans, your little anecdote notwithstanding.

In my own circle of family and friends, it's ONLY the Republicans that aren't vaccinated and when you press them for why that is, they don't really have a good answer outside of some gobbledygook. Now isn't it odd that there is such a dividing line over this virus that doesn't care if you're red or blue? If it's not political, how did the narrative split so cleanly along partisan lines? 🤔 Ya little nazi...

 

[dbjork6317]

I'm not bragging about anything. Heck, I'm working on shedding a few pounds before a trip to Mexico in 2 weeks. It's just a fact that obesity had a direct correlation to Covid complications. It's also a fact that it causes many other healthcare issues, is a massive national epidemic and a huge burden on our healthcare system. It's also preventable, unlike things like cancer. If we want to fix healthcare, or reduce Covid complications, let's aggressively attack this issue.

My family's success against Covid and other things isn't just about weight. We put a lot of effort into nutrition, including vitamin levels. That makes a difference and it's something everyone should do.

I'm at the point where I hate both parties. There are plenty of things I don't like about Republican policies and would actually favor significant efforts to educate kids (and adults) about proper nutrition, provide healthy food alternatives (but balance that with stuff they will actually eat), invest in healthy options in food deserts and increase regulation on the absolute shit that is in our food supply. This is an underlying issue fueling our out-of-control healthcare costs, so addressing it will help downstream in many areas. Lower healthcare costs, lower health insurance premiums, lower Medicaid expenditure (see the food desert item), etc.

You’re not going to find disagreement here when it comes to the need to do what we can to curb obesity, which can be both educational as well as policy driven.

What’s mind bottling is your insistence on pivoting to that point when talking about the efficacy of vaccines. As if it’s one or the other, as if the resistance to vaccines is in any way related to obesity.

And I’m 100% going to continue to point out that you openly support a party whose only answer to obesity issues is to let children go hungry if they can’t pay the lunch lady every day.

 

[Allornothing]

I’d be interested to see where any expert said that the vaccine would completely stop the spread of Covid. Maybe they did and I missed it, but vaccines generally don’t stop the virus from spreading, rather they mitigate symptoms and significantly slow the mutation of the virus, which is why we haven’t gone through multiple strands/variants of covid like we did before vaccines or very early in their roll out. The slowing of mutation allows us to build up enough antibodies over time that the virus is more easily combated and slower to spread.

Just like the flu vaccine doesn’t stop the flu, and a new vaccine is needed annually to keep up with the virus’s mutations, the same will be true for covid going forward.

Also, previous vaccines did not completely eradicate diseases, which is evidenced by diseases long thought dead are popping back up now that there are more people not vaccinating their children.

The idea that the vaccine was rushed and unsafe is simply untrue. The vaccine went through the exact same testing rigors as any other vaccine. Yes, the process was sped up, but it didn’t skip any step of the testing and approval process. And it shouldn’t be surprising that it was made quickly, you had every major pharmaceutical company in the world devoting essentially 100% of its resources to creating a vaccine for which there was already a baseline since we’ve created vaccines for other coronaviruses in the past.

The vaccine should be touted as a shining example of what private industry can accomplish when the government removes certain restrictions, which Republicans should love. But instead conservatives just like to spit out untrue gobbledygook. Although at this point gobbledygook seems to be the center of the Republican ethos.

Check these out:

AP FACT CHECK: Biden goes too far in assurances on vaccines

President Joe Biden is offering what sounds like an absolute guarantee: If you're vaccinated, you won't get COVID-19. You won't end up in the hospital or die from it.

apnews.com

CDC reverses statement by director that vaccinated people are no longer contagious

“We are continuing to evaluate the evidence,” a CDC spokesman said.

thehill.com

Biden said, ‘If you get vaccinated, you won’t get COVID.’ Today, he tested positive for COVID - Washington Examiner

President Joe Biden tested positive for COVID today, the White House announced. The positive test comes several months after Biden received his second booster shot in March. This would mean Biden has had four vaccine doses and still tested positive for COVID. "This morning, President Biden...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Now, you did mention expert, but the internet has managed to nearly wipe clean all the people of MSM that were calling nightly for people who did want want the vaccine to be exterminated. That being said, you would think the POTUS and CDC director would be in touch with the experts.

 

[dbjork6317]

Check these out:

AP FACT CHECK: Biden goes too far in assurances on vaccines

President Joe Biden is offering what sounds like an absolute guarantee: If you're vaccinated, you won't get COVID-19. You won't end up in the hospital or die from it.

apnews.com

CDC reverses statement by director that vaccinated people are no longer contagious

“We are continuing to evaluate the evidence,” a CDC spokesman said.

thehill.com

Biden said, ‘If you get vaccinated, you won’t get COVID.’ Today, he tested positive for COVID - Washington Examiner

President Joe Biden tested positive for COVID today, the White House announced. The positive test comes several months after Biden received his second booster shot in March. This would mean Biden has had four vaccine doses and still tested positive for COVID. "This morning, President Biden...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Now, you did mention expert, but the internet has managed to nearly wipe clean all the people of MSM that were calling nightly for people who did want want the vaccine to be exterminated. That being said, you would think the POTUS and CDC director would be in touch with the experts.

Obviously he exaggerated here. Let’s not just brush past the stat in the article though that “99.5% of all deaths from covid-19 are in the unvaccinated” though.

Can you site 1 single instance of an actual mainstream journalist calling for people who didn’t the vaccine to be exterminated?

 

[TigerGrowls]

This is not from maga. Its from the left

 

[Budgripe86]

Yeah. Even I may have jumped to that conclusion....mea culpa.

No worries, after looking over other threads and seeing some of the stuff on this one I can understand completely. I’ve enjoyed finding this board. I like the challenge of putting my world views and beliefs out there for others to criticize. It’s invigorating and also humiliating at times, when I realize I’m wrong on something especially. I thought I was joining TI to get my tiger news fix, who knew I’d also get to fix your libness??! 😬

 

[dpic73]

No worries, after looking over other threads and seeing some of the stuff on this one I can understand completely. I’ve enjoyed finding this board. I like the challenge of putting my world views and beliefs out there for others to criticize. It’s invigorating and also humiliating at times, when I realize I’m wrong on something especially. I thought I was joining TI to get my tiger news fix, who knew I’d also get to fix your libness??! 😬

That's funny. I'm glad you're here and I like your contributions so far even when they differ from mine because if we all had the same beliefs, there'd be nothing to talk about. I'm also open to you fixing my libness, but fair warning, I'm pretty well armed 😅

 

[jschneid30]

How so? Have you been paying attention to what Trump has been saying?

So what did Biden do his first day in office?

 

[fatpiggy]

How cool that you found the one liberal who is against it! Let's not beat around the bush here because you know what I'm saying is true. The only people you've seen vocally opposed to it on social media, on tv and in real life are Republicans, your little anecdote notwithstanding.

In my own circle of family and friends, it's ONLY the Republicans that aren't vaccinated and when you press them for why that is, they don't really have a good answer outside of some gobbledygook. Now isn't it odd that there is such a dividing line over this virus that doesn't care if you're red or blue? If it's not political, how did the narrative split so cleanly along partisan lines? 🤔 Ya little nazi...

They dont have a good reason to not get vaccinated even though the survival rate is 99.9%?

RFK JR says that 22,000 vaccines need to be administered to prevent one covid death. Yet, those same 22,000 vaccines will cause more than 5 adverse heart related deaths. What do you say to that? How is that "Gobbledygook"?

 

[Budgripe86]

That's funny. I'm glad you're here and I like your contributions so far even when they differ from mine because if we all had the same beliefs, there'd be nothing to talk about. I'm also open to you fixing my libness, but fair warning, I'm pretty well armed 😅

I'm also open to you fixing my libness, but fair warning, I'm pretty well armed 😅

Hahaha I’ll start sending you all of the Dave Smith podcast you can stand 😂

 

[dbjork6317]

They dont have a good reason to not get vaccinated even though the survival rate is 99.9%?

RFK JR says that 22,000 vaccines need to be administered to prevent one covid death. Yet, those same 22,000 vaccines will cause more than 5 adverse heart related deaths. What do you say to that? How is that "Gobbledygook"?

What medical school did RFK jr graduate from?

 

[fatpiggy]

What medical school did RFK jr graduate from?

Let’s assume he is correct, and I acknowledge he could be wrong although I doubt it, would that change your opinion of the vaccines? Or are you ok with those numbers?

You don’t need a med school degree to recite statistics or Gobblygkok as you describe them. I thought we were following the science? Or do we only follow science when it leads us to our preconceived conclusions? Is it ok to sacrifice 5 lives to save one?

 

[fatpiggy]

 

[BlueRidgedf]

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I don't want him to do this, but this is why they are all scared he may win.

 

[scotchtiger]

You’re not going to find disagreement here when it comes to the need to do what we can to curb obesity, which can be both educational as well as policy driven.

What’s mind bottling is your insistence on pivoting to that point when talking about the efficacy of vaccines. As if it’s one or the other, as if the resistance to vaccines is in any way related to obesity.

And I’m 100% going to continue to point out that you openly support a party whose only answer to obesity issues is to let children go hungry if they can’t pay the lunch lady every day.

If we can agree that the current understanding of the purpose of the vaccine is to minimize symptoms and reduce the risk of complications from Covid, then the pivot makes sense. Because being healthy - not just weight, but nutrition, etc - accomplishes the same thing. And it’s completely free and reduces cost to the healthcare system vs. relying on pharmaceuticals. So they are related. I’m getting more benefit from my lifestyle choices than I would from the vaccine.

You can point out whatever you want. I don’t really support the current GOP. I just see them as the lesser of two evils.

 

[scotchtiger]

How cool that you found the one liberal who is against it! Let's not beat around the bush here because you know what I'm saying is true. The only people you've seen vocally opposed to it on social media, on tv and in real life are Republicans, your little anecdote notwithstanding.

In my own circle of family and friends, it's ONLY the Republicans that aren't vaccinated and when you press them for why that is, they don't really have a good answer outside of some gobbledygook. Now isn't it odd that there is such a dividing line over this virus that doesn't care if you're red or blue? If it's not political, how did the narrative split so cleanly along partisan lines? 🤔 Ya little nazi...

I’m sure it’s political for some. It’s not for me. I also don’t read social media and we don’t watch cable news.

If I thought my family would be materially better off with the Covid vaccine or the flu shot, we would get it. For all of the reasons I’ve posted, I don’t think we would be better off. I can’t think of another family who has had an easier time with Covid or the flu the last few years. Our decisions seem to be working for us.

 

[clempzenbill]

Fears grow that Trump will use the military in ‘dictatorial ways’ if he returns to the White House

Among those being mentioned for Trump’s defense secretary are Christopher Miller, who served temporarily during his administration, Michael Flynn and Mike Pompeo.

www.nbcnews.com

This ranks right up there with most insane delusional propaganda I’ve ever read from the US Pravda. I not really sure why you would even post this. Surely you’re not presenting this as credible are you??!

Fears grow that Trump will use the military in ‘dictatorial ways’ if he returns to the White House

Among those being mentioned for Trump’s defense secretary are Christopher Miller, who served temporarily during his administration, Michael Flynn and Mike Pompeo.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[dbjork6317]

Let’s assume he is correct, and I acknowledge he could be wrong although I doubt it, would that change your opinion of the vaccines? Or are you ok with those numbers?

You don’t need a med school degree to recite statistics or Gobblygkok as you describe them. I thought we were following the science? Or do we only follow science when it leads us to our preconceived conclusions? Is it ok to sacrifice 5 lives to save one?

Why should I assume he’s correct? And of course we “follow the science” - when it’s presented to us by actual scientists/doctors/experts. It seems to me like you’re the one who is taking a message that fits your narrative and assuming it’s true even though it’s coming from a non-expert and pretty directly contradicts what the actual experts have found.

You’re backwards.

 

[dbjork6317]

If we can agree that the current understanding of the purpose of the vaccine is to minimize symptoms and reduce the risk of complications from Covid, then the pivot makes sense. Because being healthy - not just weight, but nutrition, etc - accomplishes the same thing. And it’s completely free and reduces cost to the healthcare system vs. relying on pharmaceuticals. So they are related. I’m getting more benefit from my lifestyle choices than I would from the vaccine.

You can point out whatever you want. I don’t really support the current GOP. I just see them as the lesser of two evils.

Right, but it takes significantly longer to implement measures that create healthy behaviors amongst a population than it does to create a vaccine. So in the moment, when you’re in the middle of a pandemic, choosing health education programs over a vaccine doesn’t make sense. What you’re referring to is preventative and would need to have been happening years before covid ever arrived.

Calling a party that has openly supported authoritarianism the “lesser of two evils” still isn’t a reasonable take.

 

[fatpiggy]

Why should I assume he’s correct? And of course we “follow the science” - when it’s presented to us by actual scientists/doctors/experts. It seems to me like you’re the one who is taking a message that fits your narrative and assuming it’s true even though it’s coming from a non-expert and pretty directly contradicts what the actual experts have found.

You’re backwards.

But the actual “experts” were very wrong about almost all things Covid. Why should we trust them to interpret the data?

 

[dbjork6317]

But the actual “experts” were very wrong about almost all things Covid. Why should we trust them to interpret the data?

Gobbledygook.

 

[scotchtiger]

Right, but it takes significantly longer to implement measures that create healthy behaviors amongst a population than it does to create a vaccine. So in the moment, when you’re in the middle of a pandemic, choosing health education programs over a vaccine doesn’t make sense. What you’re referring to is preventative and would need to have been happening years before covid ever arrived.

Calling a party that has openly supported authoritarianism the “lesser of two evils” still isn’t a reasonable take.

There was like a year before the vaccine was available. We knew about comorbidities within a couple months. Should have been a national emergency to eat healthy, exercise, take vitamins and get to a normal BMI. Much progress could have been made by the time the vaccine was released.

Apologies if I don’t accept your version of reasonableness. I don’t know your situation, but my judgment has allowed me to reach a pretty amazing place in life with regard to family, career and health. I’m going to keep trusting that.