Trump Policy Proposal - No Tax On Overtime Pay

[fatpiggy]

Great way to incentivize the work force. I love it!

No tax on tips and no tax on overtime. Maybe we will start to see pre-pandemic levels of customer service.

 

[scotchtiger]

It’s obviously better than the the left’s position of more taxes on hardworking successful Americans and giving more money to people who don’t contribute to society. But it’s still an attempt to buy votes and a tax reduction mostly on people already paying very low tax rates (ie <15% effective rates).

 

[yoshi121374]

It’s obviously better than the the left’s position of more taxes on hardworking successful Americans and giving more money to people who don’t contribute to society. But it’s still an attempt to buy votes and a tax reduction mostly on people already paying very low tax rates (ie <15% effective rates).

Exactly. It's pandering for votes. It's exactly like his attempt to give a bigger check during the pandemic when it was clear he was going to lose the election.

All politicians do it, but Trump will change his position at the drop of a hat when he knows he's losing, or he's gonna make a buck.

It's one thing to change a position over time as you gain more info, learn more, have new experiences, ir whatever. That's what we all do. To change your position on Abortion for example multiple times in a few days as Trump did is pretty wild.

 

[scotchtiger]

Exactly. It's pandering for votes. It's exactly like his attempt to give a bigger check during the pandemic when it was clear he was going to lose the election.

All politicians do it, but Trump will change his position at the drop of a hat when he knows he's losing, or he's gonna make a buck.

It's one thing to change a position over time as you gain more info, learn more, have new experiences, ir whatever. That's what we all do. To change your position on Abortion for example multiple times in a few days as Trump did is pretty wild.

It’s infinitely better than the pay-for-votes student loan forgiveness scheme. Because here we’re letting people keep money they’ve earned and only by working >40 hours, so we’re keeping the break out of reach for lazy people. But again, it’s still pandering, buying votes and reducing taxes on mostly low bracket folks. But that’s politics now.

 

[fatpiggy]

It’s obviously better than the the left’s position of more taxes on hardworking successful Americans and giving more money to people who don’t contribute to society. But it’s still an attempt to buy votes and a tax reduction mostly on people already paying very low tax rates (ie <15% effective rates).

Fair criticism and point taken.

But we all know Democrats are king of the handouts. How is one supposed to compete with "here, have this" ?

Republicans must be competitive in earning votes in order to win the election. I respect this route much more than i do handouts. Plus, this structure will incentivize behaviour. Have you noticed how poor customer service has gotten since the pandemic? I have.

1) This will encourage people to work overtime.
2) Hell, it may even encourage employers to pay overtime.
3) It will incentivize employee retention. Thus improving customer service.

As a counter question and point, what behavior does eliminating someone's student debt encourage and how does said behavior benefit society?

 

[yoshi121374]

It’s infinitely better than the pay-for-votes student loan forgiveness scheme. Because here we’re letting people keep money they’ve earned and only by working >40 hours, so we’re keeping the break out of reach for lazy people. But again, it’s still pandering, buying votes and reducing taxes on mostly low bracket folks. But that’s politics now.

Agreed as I've stated before I didn't like the student loan forgiveness plans.

I would have been fine, and probably agreed with some changes to the requirements for offering student loans, better disclosure, less preditory practices etc, particularly with Sallie Mae who had a huge fine for doing this stuff.

I had loans so I could go to college, It sucked to pay basically a second car payment for 25+ years lost college, but it was an investment in training that enabled me to make substantially more money so it worked out for me.

Trump however will literally change overnight due to polls, it's wild.

 

[yoshi121374]

Fair criticism and point taken.

But we all know Democrats are king of the handouts. How is one supposed to compete with "here, have this" ?

Republicans must be competitive in earning votes in order to win the election. I respect this route much more than i do handouts. Plus, this structure will incentivize behaviour. Have you noticed how poor customer service has gotten since the pandemic? I have.

1) This will encourage people to work overtime.
2) Hell, it may even encourage employers to pay overtime.
3) It will incentivize employee retention. Thus improving customer service.

As a counter question and point, what behavior does eliminating someone's student debt encourage and how does said behavior benefit society?

How about we pay people better, hire more people and don't require people to work overtime? We are the richest country on the planet, and our workers work, by far the longest work weeks, with the least benefits of any other Western Country.

This would be one more way for employers to utilize a smaller workforce. It is far cheaper for them to pay one employee 1.5 times for OT than hire a second employee they have to pay double for that same work.

We love to act like we are helping workers while we supplement corporations bottom lines.

 

[fatpiggy]

Agreed as I've stated before I didn't like the student loan forgiveness plans.

I would have been fine, and probably agreed with some changes to the requirements for offering student loans, better disclosure, less preditory practices etc, particularly with Sallie Mae who had a huge fine for doing this stuff.

I had loans so I could go to college, It sucked to pay basically a second car payment for 25+ years lost college, but it was an investment in training that enabled me to make substantially more money so it worked out for me.

Trump however will literally change overnight due to polls, it's wild.

You have seen the side by sides of Kamala debating herself right?

 

[fatpiggy]

What i sense is frustration that Republicans are competing on the traditional Democratic playing field.

This would be a policy that i think your traditional southern democrat would support. It's throwing a bone to strictly the working class people. The fringe left won't like it because it's Trump's idea.

 

[yoshi121374]

What i sense is frustration that Republicans are competing on the traditional Democratic playing field.

This would be a policy that i think your traditional southern democrat would support. It's throwing a bone to strictly the working class people. The fringe left won't like it because it's Trump's idea.

What I sense is that you have never been in charge of a workforce and love letting your company screw you over by paying you half what it would cost to pay another person for the work.

 

[scotchtiger]

Fair criticism and point taken.

But we all know Democrats are king of the handouts. How is one supposed to compete with "here, have this" ?

Republicans must be competitive in earning votes in order to win the election. I respect this route much more than i do handouts. Plus, this structure will incentivize behaviour. Have you noticed how poor customer service has gotten since the pandemic? I have.

1) This will encourage people to work overtime.
2) Hell, it may even encourage employers to pay overtime.
3) It will incentivize employee retention. Thus improving customer service.

As a counter question and point, what behavior does eliminating someone's student debt encourage and how does said behavior benefit society?

Yea, in the game of handouts and buying votes, this is a much better way to approach it than the left. As I said above, at least this is letting people keep money they earned and it only applies to people putting in extra effort.

By contrast, imagine supporting programs that take more money from people who earned it and give it to people who haven’t done anything to deserve it. I can’t fathom supporting that approach.

 

[fatpiggy]

What I sense is that you have never been in charge of a workforce and love letting your company screw you over by paying you half what it would cost to pay another person for the work.

As usual, your senses could not be further from reality. Nothing to see here, carry on people.

 

[yoshi121374]

As usual, your senses could not be further from reality. Nothing to see here, carry on people.

So you have no rebuttal since you don't have actual experience to understand how this would impact people??

I ask again, what do you do for a living? What is your profession?

You have never answered @OleFastball, we know it's not professional gambler since you wouldn't last long not paying your lost bets.

 

[dbjork6317]

Great way to incentivize the work force. I love it!

No tax on tips and no tax on overtime. Maybe we will start to see pre-pandemic levels of customer service.

View embedded media

lol Didn’t Republicans just move to block the DOL’s increase on eligibility for overtime pay?

Republicans: no taxes on overtime pay!

Also Republicans: get rid of overtime pay!

 

[UrHuckleberry]

lol Didn’t Republicans just move to block the DOL’s increase on eligibility for overtime pay?

Republicans: no taxes on overtime pay!

Also Republicans: get rid of overtime pay!

To be fair, if there was no overtime pay, no one would be paying tax on it

 

[dbjork6317]

To be fair, if there was no overtime pay, no one would be paying tax on it

 

[FLaw47]

Both ideas are stupid but at least no taxes on OT doesn't advantage one type of working class employee over another. I desperately hate both ideas, though. Everyone benefits from the government (maybe not every individual person on net) and a person's income shouldn't be advantaged simply because it's tips, capital gains, or overtime. Income is income.

 

[Paw Pad]

What I sense is that you have never been in charge of a workforce and love letting your company screw you over by paying you half what it would cost to pay another person for the work.

What I sense from you is that it's never been YOUR money involved in the workplace. I overtime pay, both parties WIN. The employer pays half the wages and no workman's comp fees on the overtime wages. The employee gets more money to feed, clothe, and house his family per week.
I OWNED a small mfg. plant for 35 years. The way we all felt when one benefited, ALL benefited.
By the way, we had to get by on fewer employees because of Obamacare, so our employees, who were happy for the overtime pay, had to work more hours because that STUPID requirement that if you had more than 50 employees you MUST have to sign up and pay for everyone's insurance and a company our size would have gone out of business with that expense added. Another govt regulation put in by people that could not or have run a lemonade stand.
Aother reason tonever vote for demonrats, because they have no understanding or have ever run a business.
I sold 2 years ago before these idiots raised the capital gains tax to to take money out of MY pocket that they did NO work for, in spite of what Obama said. I never saw his ass on my floor.

 

[yoshi121374]

What I sense from you is that it's never been YOUR money involved in the workplace. I overtime pay, both parties WIN. The employer pays half the wages and no workman's comp fees on the overtime wages. The employee gets more money to feed, clothe, and house his family per week.
I OWNED a small mfg. plant for 35 years. The way we all felt when one benefited, ALL benefited.
By the way, we had to get by on fewer employees because of Obamacare, so our employees, who were happy for the overtime pay, had to work more hours because that STUPID requirement that if you had more than 50 employees you MUST have to sign up and pay for everyone's insurance and a company our size would have gone out of business with that expense added. Another govt regulation put in by people that could not or have run a lemonade stand.
Aother reason tonever vote for demonrats, because they have no understanding or have ever run a business.
I sold 2 years ago before these idiots raised the capital gains tax to to take money out of MY pocket that they did NO work for, in spite of what Obama said. I never saw his ass on my floor.

I appreciate your input and experience. I admit that I have worked predominantly for major corporations so my experience and yours may be different.

I have seen and participated in major corporations takibg advantage of every single way they can to make more money. From reductions in Fulltime employees to avoid paying Taxes and Benefits, to use of salaried positions to avoid paying OT.

I can understand your positions, and I would agree that the size of your job would make many of the labor laws more challenging. I would certainly be in favor of allowances based on employee amount or revenue or something.

The beauty of how our government is supposed to work is we start from different opinions and work toward a compromise were while we both might not win, neither do we both lose.

 

[fatpiggy]

Both ideas are stupid but at least no taxes on OT doesn't advantage one type of working class employee over another. I desperately hate both ideas, though. Everyone benefits from the government (maybe not every individual person on net) and a person's income shouldn't be advantaged simply because it's tips, capital gains, or overtime. Income is income.

Are you saying short term capital gains should be the same as long term?

I think it’s good to incentive longer term investing as I think it produces better results for the consumer.

 

[FLaw47]

Are you saying short term capital gains should be the same as long term?

I think it’s good to incentive longer term investing as I think it produces better results for the consumer.

It's an interesting point and one that I'm sympathetic to. I guess I see there being some value in incentivizing long term gains over short (though I'd love to see some data on the negatives of short term investing). I do think that long term gains are taxed too little, though.

To save you a little trouble with me, I generally want more government programs and the tax revenue to accomplish that. Taxes with relatively low costs are the most appealing to me so things like estate taxes, capital gains, and progressive income taxes are higher on my list.

 

[Allornothing]

It’s obviously better than the the left’s position of more taxes on hardworking successful Americans and giving more money to people who don’t contribute to society. But it’s still an attempt to buy votes and a tax reduction mostly on people already paying very low tax rates (ie <15% effective rates).

Or, we could just have the taxpayers pay off loans for people who took them out.

Sounds like a great idea.

 

[fatpiggy]

It's an interesting point and one that I'm sympathetic to. I guess I see there being some value in incentivizing long term gains over short (though I'd love to see some data on the negatives of short term investing). I do think that long term gains are taxed too little, though.

To save you a little trouble with me, I generally want more government programs and the tax revenue to accomplish that. Taxes with relatively low costs are the most appealing to me so things like estate taxes, capital gains, and progressive income taxes are higher on my list.

If you don’t know the difference in the results of short term vs long term investing, you really have no business commenting on the subject.

Long term investing (not to be confused with trading) is far superior and thus the original reason for a lower long term rate.

 

[FLaw47]

If you don’t know the difference in the results of short term vs long term investing, you really have no business commenting on the subject.

Long term investing is far superior and thus the original reason for a lower long term rate.

If you want to go tit for tat on ignorance I'm more than happy to play that game with you, in particular.

I've noticed in several threads that you're incredibly fond of making wild claims and refusing to back them up with anything other than a lunatic on Twitter so your credibility, as a rule, is quite low.

If you'd like to discuss long term vs short term gains I'm happy to do. I acknowledged that it'd be good to incentivize holding for longer and merely expressed that I'd like to learn more. If your (brazenly hypocritical) standard is that one cannot have any ignorance on a topic to weigh in, then none of us should have any opinions on anything.

So let me know. I don't really want to waste my time any more than than I already am.

 

[fatpiggy]

And I accept your view that you think the government needs to play a strong role in the lives of citizens. I don’t agree with it but at least you can articulate your point well.

Question, you say that you are generally for higher taxes. What rate would you consider to be too high?

I think current long term rates top out around 26% (state, federal, +obamacare). Correct me if that’s wrong.

What rate would you consider too high?

 

[fatpiggy]

If you want to go tit for tat on ignorance I'm more than happy to play that game with you, in particular.

I've noticed in several threads that you're incredibly fond of making wild claims and refusing to back them up with anything other than a lunatic on Twitter so your credibility, as a rule, is quite low.

If you'd like to discuss long term vs short term gains I'm happy to do. I acknowledged that it'd be good to incentivize holding for longer and merely expressed that I'd like to learn more. If your (brazenly hypocritical) standard is that one cannot have any ignorance on a topic to weigh in, then none of us should have any opinions on anything.

So let me know. I don't really want to waste my time any more than than I already am.

It’s kind of common sense why short term rates are higher than long term. 🤷‍♂️

What would be your argument for a single term?

 

[scotchtiger]

To save you a little trouble with me, I generally want more government programs and the tax revenue to accomplish that.

This is pretty much the antithesis of my political philosophy. I want minimal government programs and people should keep as much of what they earn as possible. Government should play a very small part in your life - both in what you rely on it for and how much it takes from you.

 

[other1]

To be fair, if there was no overtime pay, no one would be paying tax on it

That's heavy

 

[FLaw47]

This is pretty much the antithesis of my political philosophy. I want minimal government programs and people should keep as much of what they earn as possible. Government should play a very small part in your life - both in what you rely on it for and how much it takes from you.

I know. There's a reason I don't engage with you on these topics (I'm not being ugly). I know that you have reasonably well fleshed out beliefs in the complete opposite direction and I see very little opportunity for either of us to convince the other of anything. Most people on this board share policy positions with you but have lousy reasoning for them. Your reasoning at least makes sense; I just all the way disagree from a values perspective.

 

[Allornothing]

I know. There's a reason I don't engage with you on these topics (I'm not being ugly). I know that you have reasonably well fleshed out beliefs in the complete opposite direction and I see very little opportunity for either of us to convince the other of anything. Most people on this board share policy positions with you but have lousy reasoning for them. Your reasoning at least makes sense; I just all the way disagree from a values perspective.

Could/would you explain your values?

 

[FLaw47]

And I accept your view that you think the government needs to play a strong role in the lives of citizens. I don’t agree with it but at least you can articulate your point well.

Question, you say that you are generally for higher taxes. What rate would you consider to be too high?

I think current long term rates top out around 26% (state, federal, +obamacare). Correct me if that’s wrong.

What rate would you consider too high?

There isn't a specific amount that I'd consider too high. I consider the taxes too high on roughly 3 conditions:

• It's not needed to be that high to support the programs I value
• It starts to appreciably stifle a behavior I don't want to stifle (sometimes you want to stifle behavior, like with cigarette taxes)
• The tax harms the taxed person too much (likelihood is released by prioritizing taxing more well off people)

It’s kind of common sense why short term rates are higher than long term. 🤷‍♂️

What would be your argument for a single term?

I've never found "common sense" to be a compelling justification. In this context I'm asking about the negative impacts of short term investments on the market, not for the individual. I'll do some reading when I get a chance.

I'm not arguing for smushing the capital gains into one bucket; just saying that I think there is room to increase them. Hell, we could even tax short term gains more than income tax and long term at income. I would want to see analysis before I signed off on something like that though. I am not an economist or policy maker. I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[FLaw47]

Could/would you explain your values?

Basically I think that in a country as wealthy as ours that people should have a relatively easy time living a modest and healthy life if they're willing to work 40 hours per week. While there are many rags to riches stories it pales in comparison to the numbers of people who were born to rags and didn't have the luck and talent to move to riches. I think a lot of conservatives believe there's a lot more social mobility than there actually is.

I was born on third base. I'm probably a pretty hard worker but not exceptional. I do not think that if I were born into poverty that my drive would have been enough for me to escape and I think that people, like myself, should make sacrifices (taxes) to benefit society as a whole.
I separately believe we're all better off by everyone being educated and having preventative healthcare.

Edit:Basically too much in life comes down to luck. People who are less lucky than me deserve a decent life also.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

Agreed as I've stated before I didn't like the student loan forgiveness plans.

I would have been fine, and probably agreed with some changes to the requirements for offering student loans, better disclosure, less preditory practices etc, particularly with Sallie Mae who had a huge fine for doing this stuff.

I had loans so I could go to college, It sucked to pay basically a second car payment for 25+ years lost college, but it was an investment in training that enabled me to make substantially more money so it worked out for me.

Trump however will literally change overnight due to polls, it's wild.

Last line. Are we really going to say this and not mention Kamala’s ways? Come on now.