Van Smith questioning Dabo (SIAP)

[TigerLion06]

What? No he didn’t. Or, excuse me, if he did he did so merely by being black. Which, if that’s what you’re saying, then I kind of agree in a practical way. Black guy assumes most powerful position in the free world —> racists start acting out, kill some folks —> black guy says you shouldn’t do that —> racists say see he’s taking their side! It’s the dumbest fvcking narrative and absolutely mind boggling that so many people buy it.

And what’s funnier is that the guy that followed him WOULDN’T DENOUNCE REAL, CARD CARRYING RACISTS. Played to their support in fact. But yeah, Obama is the one who caused the divisiveness.

Good lord, man. At least say he tore the scab off something that was always there. That I could believe. Doesn’t make it his fault but I could accept the argument that his ascension to POTUS was a root cause in that scenario.

For the record, I’m a middle of the road pragmatist. I would and have voted for both sides depending on the candidate and their particular views. Mostly because I view hard line ideology as stupid and detrimental.

I appreciate your efforts. I used to be that guy. You can't talk any sense into those people. Some people don't even know that they are racist, have a racial bias, or are just plain stupid. All these things were happening pre-Obama. These discussions were being had, claims that were made "famous" under Obama were old hat. The president saying them did lend fuel to it. It made people who lived their lives ignoring it have to at least be made aware of it. Him being who he was had already angered a lot of folks. Now was their chance to go after him. Your post was spot on in my opinion. Obama didn't actually even say much to be honest. But it was more than enough to give those racists what they needed. Disagree with his politics and that's fine. He was not divisive. People that consider him that were probably already "divided". Again, Thanks for trying. It can be exhausting tho lol. Good luck.

 

[Klaus Schwab]

I appreciate your efforts. I used to be that guy. You can't talk any sense into those people. Some people don't even know that they are racist, have a racial bias, or are just plain stupid. All these things were happening pre-Obama. These discussions were being had, claims that were made "famous" under Obama were old hat. The president saying them did lend fuel to it. It made people who lived their lives ignoring it have to at least be made aware of it. Him being who he was had already angered a lot of folks. Now was their chance to go after him. Your post was spot on in my opinion. Obama didn't actually even say much to be honest. But it was more than enough to give those racists what they needed. Disagree with his politics and that's fine. He was not divisive. People that consider him that were probably already "divided". Again, Thanks for trying. It can be exhausting tho lol. Good luck.

“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”

 

[TigerLion06]

“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”

Anyone seeing a problem with that is choosing to be dumb. I can't help those people. Obama as a black person has to be concerned if a young black person was killed for something as little as what occurred that day. It's easier not easy, but easiER, to ignore things that don't impact you directly. He's saying this could've been his son on any given day. Not the presidents son but him being a black person. Therefore it hit him differently than maybe someone not black. Again. It hits differently because if I remember correctly a ton of white moms and dads mourned for him as well. Him saying that allowed racists looking for any reason to be mad at him to go on a tear. Kinda like him wearing a tan suit.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Obama is a racist POS and definitely the reason for many of the race issues that we have been facing. He’s also running the current administration - evidenced by the woke, evil disaster that it is.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Anyone seeing a problem with that is choosing to be dumb. I can't help those people. Obama as a black person has to be concerned if a young black person was killed for something as little as what occurred that day. It's easier not easy, but easiER, to ignore things that don't impact you directly. He's saying this could've been his son on any given day. Not the presidents son but him being a black person. Therefore it hit him differently than maybe someone not black. Again. It hits differently because if I remember correctly a ton of white moms and dads mourned for him as well. Him saying that allowed racists looking for any reason to be mad at him to go on a tear. Kinda like him wearing a tan suit.

I think a lot of people would look at that and wonder why Obama identified more with Trayvon than with someone protecting their neighborhood. I don't really fault him entirely for saying that, as I think he was trying to be empathetic. Obama has also pushed back against some of the more woke racial ideology, so I don't really think it's fair to blame him for all of that (people might forget that he campaigned on a sort of MLK-esque color blindness, even saying that he didn't want his daughters to receive racial preference). Nevertheless, that's an instance of somebody prioritizing racial identity over other kinds of identities, and even potentially over justice itself. BLM and the sort of new racial acrimony also started under Obama.

It's just far too blithe and self-serving to say that to the extent that any of the racial stuff we're dealing with now has to do with Obama, that it was because of reaction to him being black. I think a lot of people, including those who didn't vote for him, had hope that Obama being elected would be a major step away from America's absurd racial concepts. But by 2016, you had BLM, you had the guy in Dallas shooting police, you had the start of the riotous street theater that's happened ever since then, and polls were showing that people were more worried about race relations than ever. Obama isn't responsible for all of that, but it's hard not to be disappointed.

 

[TigerLion06]

I think a lot of people would look at that and wonder why Obama identified more with Trayvon than with someone protecting their neighborhood. I don't really fault him entirely for saying that, as I think he was trying to be empathetic. Obama has also pushed back against some of the more woke racial ideology, so I don't really think it's fair to blame him for all of that (people might forget that he campaigned on a sort of MLK-esque color blindness, even saying that he didn't want his daughters to receive racial preference). Nevertheless, that's an instance of somebody prioritizing racial identity over other kinds of identities, and even potentially over justice itself. BLM and the sort of new racial acrimony also started under Obama.

It's just far too blithe and self-serving to say that to the extent that any of the racial stuff we're dealing with now has to do with Obama, that it was because of reaction to him being black. I think a lot of people, including those who didn't vote for him, had hope that Obama being elected would be a major step away from America's absurd racial concepts. But by 2016, you had BLM, you had the guy in Dallas shooting police, you had the start of the riotous street theater that's happened ever since then, and polls were showing that people were more worried about race relations than ever. Obama isn't responsible for all of that, but it's hard not to be disappointed.

Obama didn't make a choice of protecting a neighborhood over racial identity. A young man died and the claim of protecting anything was frivolous at best. The guy was instructed by authorities to stand down. He didn't. The fact is that it wasn't a stand alone event and people knew why that piece of crap killer really responded the way he did. It was because he was black in a hoodie. If he didn't fit that description there would've been no need to protect a neighborhood.

Also, bringing up BLM and other incidents of black folks behaving badly is kind of disingenuous without bringing up at the very least the countless crimes against folks based solely on their race. I despise BLM but let's remember that those clowns wouldn't exist without those countless acts against black folks that give BLM a reason to exist. Obama happened to be president during the height of technology which included everyone with video capability to document behavior that existed for the longest time prior to Obama. I don't get that you're a part of the problem at all but these problems existed long before Obama. Just horrible timing for him. Just my opinion.

 

[Flat Rock`s Finest]

This world has gotten to a place that everyone is under a microscope and must walk on eggshells.

There is zero evidence of Dabo being anywhere close to racist and he has been a father figure to all races that come through his program. This crap is just that...crap

It's obvious where all of this is going. If you're white and you don't bow down and kiss everybody's ass who happens to be of a darker complexion, you are automatically racist.

Unfortunately people like me will have a lot of enemies because I don't kiss anybody's ass regardless of what they look like. I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

 

[nmerritt11]

It's obvious where all of this is going. If you're white and you don't bow down and kiss everybody's ass who happens to be of a darker complexion, you are automatically racist.

Unfortunately people like me will have a lot of enemies because I don't kiss anybody's ass regardless of what they look like. I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

Social Media has made too many cowards have too loud of a voice.

 

[Flat Rock`s Finest]

Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton have said despicable things about black people over and over again but they still turned out in droves to vote for those pieces of shit.

They were both buds with the former Klansman senator from West Virginia so they can cry a river for all I care. When they're all cried out, they can shove their selective rage up their asses.

 

[TigerLion06]

It's obvious where all of this is going. If you're white and you don't bow down and kiss everybody's ass who happens to be of a darker complexion, you are automatically racist.

Unfortunately people like me will have a lot of enemies because I don't kiss anybody's ass regardless of what they look like. I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

You really believe that? Power dynamic has changed very slightly in this country. Average corporation has gone from 98% white to about 97%. Don't worry you still have practically all the power. Most noise is social media which is still just an iota of the actual population. White people are just fine. You feel a slight pushback in society when others were murdered by hanging and couldn't do anything only because they were not white and you're talking about dieing on your feet. Talk about soft. Smh. Cancel culture has always been around. You'll be fine. Don't kiss anybody's ass. Just be a decent human being.

 

[TigerLion06]

Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton have said despicable things about black people over and over again but they still turned out in droves to vote for those pieces of shit.

They were both buds with the former Klansman senator from West Virginia so they can cry a river for all I care. When they're all cried out, they can shove their selective rage up their asses.

I agree with this. Now do the racist republicans who I'm guessing you continue to vote for. Surely you can name a couple of them. Truth is both sides of the LEADERSHIP are racist. Doesn't mean everyone that votes that way is. But maybe folks voting for Hilary are voting the lesser of two evils. They are all evil in my opinion.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Obama didn't make a choice of protecting a neighborhood over racial identity. A young man died and the claim of protecting anything was frivolous at best. The guy was instructed by authorities to stand down. He didn't. The fact is that it wasn't a stand alone event and people knew why that piece of crap killer really responded the way he did. It was because he was black in a hoodie. If he didn't fit that description there would've been no need to protect a neighborhood.

Also, bringing up BLM and other incidents of black folks behaving badly is kind of disingenuous without bringing up at the very least the countless crimes against folks based solely on their race. I despise BLM but let's remember that those clowns wouldn't exist without those countless acts against black folks that give BLM a reason to exist. Obama happened to be president during the height of technology which included everyone with video capability to document behavior that existed for the longest time prior to Obama. I don't get that you're a part of the problem at all but these problems existed long before Obama. Just horrible timing for him. Just my opinion.

To begin with, you've got a false narrative of the Trayvon situation. Martin's family's attorney said he didn't think the case was really about race. The neighborhood where it happened was 20% black, and of course Zimmerman was Hispanic. But the immediate impulse of many was to make the entire thing about race, with the event being described as a black boy being shot to death for going to buy skittles and walking back to his home in a neighborhood where he stuck out, in a hoodie. Even though the jury found Zimmerman not guilty, and even though the evidence suggests Martin was the aggressor, various luminaries treated the situation as emblematic of black people being victimized by whites, and some people still endorse that view.

Initial reports made it sound like Zimmerman had stalked a random black kid, provoked a confrontation, and shot him. A picture of Martin from years before where he looked very young was published, which obscured the fact that Martin was much larger than Zimmerman. What actually happened is that Zimmerman called a non-emergency number to report Martin looking in windows of houses after a neighborhood watch had been started to deal with burglaries. Zimmerman watched Martin until Martin was out of sight, then that's when Zimmerman was told by police that he "didn't need to" follow Martin (Zimmerman replied, "OK"). Zimmerman did get out of his car, but he didn't find Martin. Martin then ambushed Zimmerman, got on top of him and banged his head into the ground. That's when Zimmerman shot him.

So what was the purpose of the narrative that Zimmerman was a white person who attacked a young black kid just for being black? Why do some people just "know" that's what happened? Did Obama's remarks contribute to the perception that black people were under attack from whites?

This has to do with BLM because, rather than being emblematic of black people being victimized by others for being black, it's much more emblematic of a false narrative being propagated based on murky details, at best, and fantasies, at worst. Black people are not disproportionately targeted for violence by non-blacks, and in fact black people are disproportionately more likely to be the perpetrators of violence against non-blacks (of course, the vast, vast majority of violence is intraracial). It's questionable whether black people are more likely to be shot by police relative to crimes committed by blacks. But here we are, and this stuff really did start under Obama with Trayvon and Michael Brown.

 

[AugTig]

You really believe that? Power dynamic has changed very slightly in this country. Average corporation has gone from 98% white to about 97%. Don't worry you still have practically all the power. Most noise is social media which is still just an iota of the actual population. White people are just fine. You feel a slight pushback in society when others were murdered by hanging and couldn't do anything only because they were not white and you're talking about dieing on your feet. Talk about soft. Smh. Cancel culture has always been around. You'll be fine. Don't kiss anybody's ass. Just be a decent human being.

How old are you? That will explain a lot.

 

[TigerLion06]

To begin with, you've got a false narrative of the Trayvon situation. Martin's family's attorney said he didn't think the case was really about race. The neighborhood where it happened was 20% black, and of course Zimmerman was Hispanic. But the immediate impulse of many was to make the entire thing about race, with the event being described as a black boy being shot to death for going to buy skittles and walking back to his home in a neighborhood where he stuck out, in a hoodie. Even though the jury found Zimmerman not guilty, and even though the evidence suggests Martin was the aggressor, various luminaries treated the situation as emblematic of black people being victimized by whites, and some people still endorse that view.

Initial reports made it sound like Zimmerman had stalked a random black kid, provoked a confrontation, and shot him. A picture of Martin from years before where he looked very young was published, which obscured the fact that Martin was much larger than Zimmerman. What actually happened is that Zimmerman called a non-emergency number to report Martin looking in windows of houses after a neighborhood watch had been started to deal with burglaries. Zimmerman watched Martin until Martin was out of sight, then that's when Zimmerman was told by police that he "didn't need to" follow Martin (Zimmerman replied, "OK"). Zimmerman did get out of his car, but he didn't find Martin. Martin then ambushed Zimmerman, got on top of him and banged his head into the ground. That's when Zimmerman shot him.

So what was the purpose of the narrative that Zimmerman was a white person who attacked a young black kid just for being black? Why do some people just "know" that's what happened? Did Obama's remarks contribute to the perception that black people were under attack from whites?

This has to do with BLM because, rather than being emblematic of black people being victimized by others for being black, it's much more emblematic of a false narrative being propagated based on murky details, at best, and fantasies, at worst. Black people are not disproportionately targeted for violence by non-blacks, and in fact black people are disproportionately more likely to be the perpetrators of violence against non-blacks (of course, the vast, vast majority of violence is intraracial). It's questionable whether black people are more likely to be shot by police relative to crimes committed by blacks. But here we are, and this stuff really did start under Obama with Trayvon and Michael Brown.

Well I guess I'll go on believing the false narrative since you can go on believing yours that i consider false. And you actually believe Zimmerman who was adamant about stopping this kid, even to the point of admittedly defying orders from the dispatcher, decided to give up finally and then Martin ambushed him? Wow. We can have no progress on that matter if you believe that. Also. Zimmerman being Hispanic has zero to do with this. A black person can profile another black person. The issue is with the race of the supposed perpetrator. An officer can abuse a black alleged perp. I myself can be unfairly suspicious of another black person. The fact that I'm black has zero to do with it. I can be brainwashed or demonstrate the same bias as a non black person. But we'll probably never agree if you believe that scenario you described. I'm ok with that tho.

As for Obama again. If I received initial reports like most of America that a young black male was profiled, and let's be real, if he was a young white kid he would've been left to walk home, I can see myself sympathizing and imagining that could've been my son. Even if the narrative was cleared up later it doesn't take from the fact that in America this happens. As old as I am I'm still followed in department stores and a damn grocery store as a matter of fact just a few weeks ago. A damn grocery store. At my age? And I'm very clean cut and I do not fit any profile or present in any way as a thief. Obama's point still stands. This has to concern him because that could've been his son. We have to address that. Why is that so triggering? That's a reality that stared him and myself in the face.

 

[TigerLion06]

To begin with, you've got a false narrative of the Trayvon situation. Martin's family's attorney said he didn't think the case was really about race. The neighborhood where it happened was 20% black, and of course Zimmerman was Hispanic. But the immediate impulse of many was to make the entire thing about race, with the event being described as a black boy being shot to death for going to buy skittles and walking back to his home in a neighborhood where he stuck out, in a hoodie. Even though the jury found Zimmerman not guilty, and even though the evidence suggests Martin was the aggressor, various luminaries treated the situation as emblematic of black people being victimized by whites, and some people still endorse that view.

Initial reports made it sound like Zimmerman had stalked a random black kid, provoked a confrontation, and shot him. A picture of Martin from years before where he looked very young was published, which obscured the fact that Martin was much larger than Zimmerman. What actually happened is that Zimmerman called a non-emergency number to report Martin looking in windows of houses after a neighborhood watch had been started to deal with burglaries. Zimmerman watched Martin until Martin was out of sight, then that's when Zimmerman was told by police that he "didn't need to" follow Martin (Zimmerman replied, "OK"). Zimmerman did get out of his car, but he didn't find Martin. Martin then ambushed Zimmerman, got on top of him and banged his head into the ground. That's when Zimmerman shot him.

So what was the purpose of the narrative that Zimmerman was a white person who attacked a young black kid just for being black? Why do some people just "know" that's what happened? Did Obama's remarks contribute to the perception that black people were under attack from whites?

This has to do with BLM because, rather than being emblematic of black people being victimized by others for being black, it's much more emblematic of a false narrative being propagated based on murky details, at best, and fantasies, at worst. Black people are not disproportionately targeted for violence by non-blacks, and in fact black people are disproportionately more likely to be the perpetrators of violence against non-blacks (of course, the vast, vast majority of violence is intraracial). It's questionable whether black people are more likely to be shot by police relative to crimes committed by blacks. But here we are, and this stuff really did start under Obama with Trayvon and Michael Brown.

Also just as black people are more likely to be harmed by other black folks, according to fbi data, the same is said for white folks. People overwhelmingly hurt people that look like them and live around them. Those are facts. Furthermore, I'm not concerned about armed criminals being shot. I'm not an armed criminal.

One more thing you stated "black people are more likely to be shot by police relative to crimes committed by blacks"....why is it related to crimes committed by blacks? Shoot them equally or don't shoot them equally. Each black person os different. I get treated a certain way because black people arevgenerally guilty? No matter what I've accomplished in my life I have to deal with that? I just want how people treat alleged perpetrators to be equal. It just seems that when it's black folks the worst is assumed in a stop and not equal otherwise.

Also, folks seem ok with shooting folks with nonsense like well they didn't comply as if resisiting arrest equals a death sentence. I'm not here to argue for criminals because if you're armed then I'm pro cop. PRO COP. I've just seen too many cases of armed white folks getting every chance and unarmed black person getting less consideration. I will be that unarmed black person so I just want us to have a chance. You follow me?

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Well I guess I'll go on believing the false narrative since you can go on believing yours that i consider false. And you actually believe Zimmerman who was adamant about stopping this kid, even to the point of admittedly defying orders from the dispatcher, decided to give up finally and then Martin ambushed him? Wow. We can have no progress on that matter if you believe that. Also. Zimmerman being Hispanic has zero to do with this. A black person can profile another black person. The issue is with the race of the supposed perpetrator. An officer can abuse a black alleged perp. I myself can be unfairly suspicious of another black person. The fact that I'm black has zero to do with it. I can be brainwashed or demonstrate the same bias as a non black person. But we'll probably never agree if you believe that scenario you described. I'm ok with that tho.

As for Obama again. If I received initial reports like most of America that a young black male was profiled, and let's be real, if he was a young white kid he would've been left to walk home, I can see myself sympathizing and imagining that could've been my son. Even if the narrative was cleared up later it doesn't take from the fact that in America this happens. As old as I am I'm still followed in department stores and a damn grocery store as a matter of fact just a few weeks ago. A damn grocery store. At my age? And I'm very clean cut and I do not fit any profile or present in any way as a thief. Obama's point still stands. This has to concern him because that could've been his son. We have to address that. Why is that so triggering? That's a reality that stared him and myself in the face.

There was no order from the dispatcher. They actually just said they didn’t need Zimmerman to follow Martin once he was out of his sight. The facts are just the facts, though, and what you’re describing is not factual. Some of what you’re saying is subjective, but some is not based on what is documented as happening.

Now, granted, some of the subsequent presidents have been really irresponsible about these sort of viral events, but I do think Obama choosing to identify with Martin is questionable. Again, I give Obama credit for pushing back on some of the recent stuff and arguing to unity rather than division, but given what actually happened, I don’t think some of his remarks about the situation were helpful.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Also just as black people are more likely to be harmed by other black folks, according to fbi data, the same is said for white folks. People overwhelmingly hurt people that look like them and live around them. Those are facts. Furthermore, I'm not concerned about armed criminals being shot. I'm not an armed criminal.

One more thing you stated "black people are more likely to be shot by police relative to crimes committed by blacks"....why is it related to crimes committed by blacks? Shoot them equally or don't shoot them equally. Each black person os different. I get treated a certain way because black people arevgenerally guilty? No matter what I've accomplished in my life I have to deal with that? I just want how people treat alleged perpetrators to be equal. It just seems that when it's black folks the worst is assumed in a stop and not equal otherwise.

Also, folks seem ok with shooting folks with nonsense like well they didn't comply as if resisiting arrest equals a death sentence. I'm not here to argue for criminals because if you're armed then I'm pro cop. PRO COP. I've just seen too many cases of armed white folks getting every chance and unarmed black person getting less consideration. I will be that unarmed black person so I just want us to have a chance. You follow me?

My comment about proportionality was more about how likely you are to have an encounter with police. I think police should be held to a very high standard, and that we should try to have less encounter between black people and police. But as long as crime is higher in areas where more black people live, there are going to be more encounters.

I’m honesty anguished about that situation, and I hate that abuses happen. I wish there was some sort of easy fix, and it’s one of the reasons why I’m more open to a little bit of the “equity” approach than some people are. But we still have to get the details right, and it can’t just be this sketchy narrative.

 

[TigerLion06]

There was no order from the dispatcher. They actually just said they didn’t need Zimmerman to follow Martin once he was out of his sight. The facts are just the facts, though, and what you’re describing is not factual. Some of what you’re saying is subjective, but some is not based on what is documented as happening.

Now, granted, some of the subsequent presidents have been really irresponsible about these sort of viral events, but I do think Obama choosing to identify with Martin is questionable. Again, I give Obama credit for pushing back on some of the recent stuff and arguing to unity rather than division, but given what actually happened, I don’t think some of his remarks about the situation were helpful.

Yes I agree my comments are subjective. I wasn't there so I won't ever know the facts regarding the encounter. No one will. And you're right it wasn't an order from the dispatcher but when I saw what was stated it was clear. The dispatcher made it clear and for obvious reasons. Zimmerman chose to ignore that "advice" from someone that in my opinion he should've listened to. My point is that it speaks to his state of mind. He was not a good guy. But that again is my opinion. I will never agree with you on Obama identifying with Martin. The initial info had that narrative and again this was part of a bigger picture of what was going on. I don't expect everyone to get that. That period was tough. And again. Profiling is not a high crime area thing. It's a black thing. Have you ever been questioned sitting on your own porch in a nice neighborhood? I've done well in my life and I'm treated that way in nice areas where I stand out. Not high crime areas. And I don't dress like a gang banger. I've been stopped professionally dressed and business casual in very upscale areas. Hell stop those encounters I'll say selfishly. I get high crime area encounters. But people like myself? Cmon. Can we at least start there first? Then we can hit the high crime areas where despite the high crime there's a ton a crooked activity by officers themselves. Something the average citizen will never grasp.

I think police should be held to a higher standard and I think they should be paid significantly more and given more training and resources. Requirements should be higher as well. There is so much corruption in police departments and as long as the average citizen thinks it's not that bad then we won't get anywhere.

I have had conversations with you in the past and I'm satisfied that you are fair enough for me. We don't have to agree on everything. Your not part of the problem I see we're good. We probably want the same things.