It’s pretty amazing what you can accomplish when you change the definition of “violent crime”.
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anon_gwg7wjjhm2lka
Guest
You can only work with the data that is available. When 23 data comes out, if it shows a dramatic rise then we can have that convo.
So you are suggesting there is a time to politicize his death
If I lived a 1000 years ago I would solve this with one nights justice
Line up the immigrants and execute every 10th immigrant
Then announce if another person dies from another illegal immigrant then we do it again until no person is killed by an illegal immigrant
It seemed to work well back in the day for many crimes
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anon_gwg7wjjhm2lka
Guest
Explains why you love Trump. You like dictators. Maybe you should move to Russia and see how good your life is.
How about we execute an orange person every time one of them commits a crime? Within about a week, the world would be rid of orange people and America would be great again.
Hell yeah, brother. I also yearn for murder while claiming to be pro-life.
This is where you lose people. There is a middle ground between unfettered illegal immigration and slaughter. Inflicting evil on innocents in an effort to fight evil doesn’t solve anything.
I see you are too closed minded and illiterate to understand the anecdotal metaphor
On a following thought on the subject of crime is going down fast
I just read the New York governor is mobilizing the National Guard to crush the out of control law abiding citizens down in the tunnels
Those bastard law abiding craps
I just read the New York governor is mobilizing the National Guard to crush the out of control law abiding citizens down in the tunnels
Those bastard law abiding craps
According to the FBI, violent crime has dropped a fair amount in the last year or so. Hopefully that trend continues. Other criminal activity (such as property crime) is up. Drug overdoses are up. Homelessness is up. There is so much to analyze about all of this and what we can do to start solving more of our problems. It wouldn't surprise me if violent crime starts to increase again given the state of policing in the United States but time will tell on that. There are a number of cities such as San Francisco, Houston, New Orleans, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, etc. where violent crime is surging at an alarming rate.
It's a shame so many folks coming here to try and justify their predisposed political views with respect to every issue. We fight about everything now and that's a large part of why everything is such a damn mess.
It's a shame so many folks coming here to try and justify their predisposed political views with respect to every issue. We fight about everything now and that's a large part of why everything is such a damn mess.
The data actually doesn't support this claim. Violent crime has been decreasing every year since 2021 not just in major cities, but rural areas as well. It's not where it was pre-COVID, but it's trending that direction.
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anon_gwg7wjjhm2lka
Guest
I agree. I know I come across as manic at times but this is more about fighting fire with fire. The right has gotten extremely loud with false narratives and it takes a loud voice for others to listen to the actual facts that prove those narratives false.
Not to pick on you but your replies the problem. You feel like you need to deal with what you view as an out of control right when in fact both sides have been out of control for quite some time. Each out of control response is a reaction to something they view on the other side as a huge problem so we end up with a never-ending cycle of justifiable responses to out of control actions on one side or the other. It's ridiculous. There are so many narratives on both sides that can be proven wrong with facts. It's hard to even know where to begin.
Lol. This is where you just are arguing without even looking it up. Go look at the statistics in the cities I listed. I'm using the same exact data that the original poster did.
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Okay. Here's a link of 32 different cities (don't worry it breaks down each one) detailing how violent crime has decreased over the last few years. You can sort by the different types of "violent crime" to see how it has been trending down since 2021. Robbery and domestic violence are the only two types of "violent crime" that saw an increase, whereas everything else is on the decline.
Crime Trends in U.S. Cities: Year-End 2023 Update - Council on Criminal Justice
Homicide and most other violent crime declined in American cities in 2023, but levels remain above those seen before the onset of the COVID pandemic and the widespread social justice protests of 2020.
counciloncj.org
Now, you can provide your data showing your claim.
Okay. Here's a link of 32 different cities (don't worry it breaks down each one) detailing how violent crime has decreased over the last few years. You can sort by the different types of "violent crime" to see how it has been trending down since 2021. Robbery and domestic violence are the only two types of "violent crime" that saw an increase, whereas everything else is on the decline.
Crime Trends in U.S. Cities: Year-End 2023 Update - Council on Criminal Justice
Homicide and most other violent crime declined in American cities in 2023, but levels remain above those seen before the onset of the COVID pandemic and the widespread social justice protests of 2020.
Now, you can provide your data showing your claim.
Am I reading this right?
- Homicides up 18% since 2019
- Gun assault up 32%
- Carjackings up 93%
- Motor vehicle theft up 105%
I also wonder how much the lack of reporting of theft has skewed these statistics. Like when mobs raid a Target store or when certain states don't care about theft below a certain amount. Are those being reported?
Yep, 2020 and 2021 saw a ton of crime jump up. Things have begun trending back down since then, but obviously we aren't back to pre-pandemic levels.
No clue on if that's reported - the CCJ used the monthly reports from the police departments in each city on this study but I don't know if it included commercial crimes. There is a section that says "nonresidential burglary and shoplifting" so I would assume that's your Target, Kohl's, etc crime, but I can't confirm.
Just so you will know I spoke to some police at different venues or jurisdictions and thy are telling me the majority of crime in America and where I live is being NOT REPORTED as if the offender is gone and no one was hurt that the odds of finding the perp is almost zero as in a smash and grab
So go with 50 to 100 percent under reported if not worse
Just to answer your thought about losing people as to past historical means to control populations
of course no modern civilized society would take drastic steps such as killing every 10th person in the lineup
That said it was used and used very effectively many moons ago in history quite effectively
our attempt at more civilized law enforcement is a credit to human development
problem becomes when reasonable rules are ignored with no consequences
Okay. Here's a link of 32 different cities (don't worry it breaks down each one) detailing how violent crime has decreased over the last few years. You can sort by the different types of "violent crime" to see how it has been trending down since 2021. Robbery and domestic violence are the only two types of "violent crime" that saw an increase, whereas everything else is on the decline.
Crime Trends in U.S. Cities: Year-End 2023 Update - Council on Criminal Justice
Homicide and most other violent crime declined in American cities in 2023, but levels remain above those seen before the onset of the COVID pandemic and the widespread social justice protests of 2020.
Now, you can provide your data showing your claim.
Here's the problem with what you posted. They are citing decreases off of historic increases. The 2022 data is horrendous in the cities I listed. That we are coming off of those high levels in 2023 really has no bearing on the overall situation when you look at a number of years together. You're citing one year to try to make a point and I'm looking at an overarching set a data at for a number of years.
No, my whole argument in this thread, and others recently, has been that violent crime has been decreasing over the last few years since the pandemic. That's absolutely a fact backed up by tons of evidence. Violent crime isn't "surging" in big cities, as evidenced by said big cities having a decrease in the instances of violent crime. Surging implies a sudden or immediate increase in instances. It surged in 2020 and 2021, but since then it has been decreasing back to pre-pandemic levels.
You should've used different terms, or clarified your comments further, if you didn't actually mean what I originally was responding to.
Make sure you include this link in your big crime is dropping dramatically post.
That doesn’t negate the data provided by the CCJ. Also, per the NYPD, the violent crime numbers are still trending down.Make sure you include this link in your big crime is dropping dramatically post.
Edit: figures arent out yet for 2024, but we will see if the trends continue down or not. Unfortunately, this is all the data we have to go on currently.
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anon_gwg7wjjhm2lka
Guest
And I am equally bothered by false narratives from the left, but I certainly don’t see those here. Most of what I hear from the left is that hate crimes, antisemitism, Christian nationalism are on the rise. All of those are backed up by statistics, so I am much more open to listening to those arguments.
But I also find it ironic that you make this post criticizing me, and then follow it up with false narrative about out of control crime in cities. We have proven that false time and time again.
What statistics? You mean the ones provided by our seriously left leaning government? What exactly do these groups control? It's so amazing to me the way people put it out there that this is some kind of a threat when these groups have very little power in any systemic way.
Right and it's from a politician who is seeking to forward a narrative of what a great job he's doing. Yet at the same time we are deploying the national guard to deal with subway crime. You tell me which resonates more? Remember when using the national guard to deal with public matters was considered horrendous by the New York times because it was suggested by a Republican? There's just so little intellectual honesty out there. You and I don't agree on much but I do think you're an honest broker. You shouldn't forward propaganda. I try very hard not to do it as well but it is extremely difficult these days.
Another anecdotal bit of evidence would be looking at what's going on in San Francisco and what the mayor there is doing. They're all kinds of measures previously used to deal with crime that were considered fascist to use a word. Those measures are being brought back to try to deal with how out of control things have gotten. We can go on and on about reports from various agencies but what we see on the ground demonstrates the crime is completely out of control right now. The reason we see that is because it is.
Don't get me wrong, i ****ing hate Adams and think he's an absolute shill of a politician, but those crime statistics are pulled from public databases that the PDs in each city release into. Unless you're saying that notoriously conservative police departments around the country are fudging the numbers to make it look better, then I'd say the data is pretty accurate.
You're conflating an increase in viewership and reporting on crime as an actual increase in criminality itself. That's fundamentally inaccurate, and is borderline an example of the dicto simpliciter fallacy.
You're also separating property crime and violent crime and I'm just talking about crime in general. I believe that property crime is up because it is and I also believe that violent crime may be down somewhat because it probably is. It was so high that it had nowhere to go but down. But down is a relative term because what does down mean? Does down mean it is good or does down mean that it has decreased from previous high levels? At the end of the day this may be a semantical argument we're having to a certain degree.
Oh yeah, I’m definitely separating violent crime out since that’s what the thread was originally about. My whole argument is, and has always been, that violent crime is on the decrease back to pre pandemic levels. Are the current numbers great? No, not in my opinion, but they are decreasing which is good.
I haven’t looked at non violent crime, but that CCJ study I posted probably has those figures as well.
There's a correlative relationship between property crime and violent crime. Historically when one goes up the other follows many times. That's not always true of course but it is a generally true statement. We'll see if we actually get to prepandemic levels and I know that it is close right now. As a society we have created a lot of problems that were just completely unnecessary. Our political and culture war is destroying so many lives.
Just wanted to make a quick comment
Many people are telling me they think crime is not down but just not being reported
Then they tell me crime is down because people are just not taking chances on going out in this atmosphere of criminal fear
That was just some snippets I heard in the last few days talking to people face to face
This is why Liberals cant be taken seriouslyMake sure you include this link in your big crime is dropping dramatically post.
In 2020, Mara Gay, a “journalist” for the NYT, responded to Tom Cotton’s call for the National Guard in response to out of control violent riots and violent attacks on the NYC transit with:
Fast forward to 2024 where the Governor of NY is deploying the NG to respond to “everyday” violence …. she writes
I agree. So what happens when your "facts" are manipulated? What if all of us are not being told the truth? I'm afraid you don't understand that that can happen.
Just out of curiosity, you're actually saying you trust the F_B_Lies crime statistics?
What constitutes a violent crime?
"As a society we have created a lot of problems that were just completely unnecessary".
Let's hear your loud voice.
You have the perfect avatar. It suits you very well. "Prime" is an idiot too.
Let's hear your loud voice.
I trust almost nothing these days. I understand quite well.
Truth. Some of these large cities are not even answering a 100% of 911 calls. It's turned into a total clusterf**k.
