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What Does the Republican Party Stand For in 2023?

No it hasn't. A 2nd Trump Presidency would mean a nazi authoritarian dictatorship.

I hate, loathe, detest, abhor Trump. But I can still see this take is totally is unhinged. He's a bad person for sure. What we are seeing now is the closest thing to authoritarian we have seen in my life but nothing close to what transpired when FDR was in office. Just not sure how so many people in their desire to hyperbolize current events can be so willfully ignorant of history.
 
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You do this a lot - make up bullshit that I didn't say. I didn't defend white nationalists. They're total pieces of shit. But the magnitude of their impact on the country has been greatly over-exaggerated by the left.
Has it though? you seem to only measure impact in terms of the number of people you see marching in the street on tv, which is remarkably shallow and short sighted.

Surely you must be able to see how the ideology and philosophy of white nationalists have infiltrated and influenced American politics. You see white nationalist rhetoric all through mainstream American politics and it’s impacting how politicians behave, what laws they support, what judges they nominate.

And the veil is getting thinner and thinner. A former (and potentially future) President who yields massive influence over a large swath of American politicians has all but openly adopted a white nationalist philosophy. Another mainstream Presidential candidate has built his name and platform on white nationalist policies that now dominate the state of Florida.

And it’s Republicans like you that allow those politicians to come to power because you care so very little about the people that are impacted by their policies that you’ll even run to echo white nationalist talking points about how the left is overreacting and those black groups are the real criminals.
 
I hate, loathe, detest, abhor Trump. But I can still see this take is totally is unhinged. He's a bad person for sure. What we are seeing now is the closest thing to authoritarian we have seen in my life but nothing close to what transpired when FDR was in office. Just not sure how so many people in their desire to hyperbolize current events can be so willfully ignorant of history.
He already attempted a coup to stay in power after he lost a fair election. That is literally authoritarian.
Has it though? you seem to only measure impact in terms of the number of people you see marching in the street on tv, which is remarkably shallow and short sighted.

Surely you must be able to see how the ideology and philosophy of white nationalists have infiltrated and influenced American politics. You see white nationalist rhetoric all through mainstream American politics and it’s impacting how politicians behave, what laws they support, what judges they nominate.

And the veil is getting thinner and thinner. A former (and potentially future) President who yields massive influence over a large swath of American politicians has all but openly adopted a white nationalist philosophy. Another mainstream Presidential candidate has built his name and platform on white nationalist policies that now dominate the state of Florida.

And it’s Republicans like you that allow those politicians to come to power because you care so very little about the people that are impacted by their policies that you’ll even run to echo white nationalist talking points about how the left is overreacting and those black groups are the real criminals.
This could not be said any better. Well done. The only thing I'd add subject wise is the infiltration of white nationalism into local law enforcement all over the country.
 
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He already attempted a coup to stay in power after he lost a fair election. That is literally authoritarian.

This could not be said any better. Well done.

If he did, it was the worst attempt ever. You believe this? Seriously? I suspect you go this route more because it helps you with your desired narratives rather than it being reality. That makes you another brick in the wall of this ongoing problem we are building in this country which is going to ultimately lead to our ruin.
 
No it hasn't. A 2nd Trump Presidency would mean a nazi authoritarian dictatorship.
Trump isn’t a Nazi. Fascist? Yes. Nazi? He hasn’t said anything that puts him in that category.

Nazism and Fascism do share some core beliefs, but they have important differences - chief among them being support for genocide. Until Trump starts talking about genocide, we can’t put him the same camp as the nazis.
 
Trump isn’t a Nazi. Fascist? Yes. Nazi? He hasn’t said anything that puts him in that category.

Nazism and Fascism do share some core beliefs, but they have important differences - chief among them being support for genocide. Until Trump starts talking about genocide, we can’t put him the same camp as the nazis.
Oh I know he hasn't given any hard evidence of Nazi specific ideology...yet. I'm speculating on that element of it. But he is a fascist, and he is an authoritarian. Whatever direction his specific brand of that goes is as of yet, and hopefully forever, unrealized. But I'd counter that it really doesn't matter. Whatever direction it goes will be a nightmare for millions.

Edit - and ftr while the Nazis made genocide central to their ideology, they never publicly mentioned their genocidal intentions.
 
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You do this a lot - make up bullshit that I didn't say. I didn't defend white nationalists. They're total pieces of shit. But the magnitude of their impact on the country has been greatly over-exaggerated by the left.
Stand back and stand by
 
Has it though? you seem to only measure impact in terms of the number of people you see marching in the street on tv, which is remarkably shallow and short sighted.

Surely you must be able to see how the ideology and philosophy of white nationalists have infiltrated and influenced American politics. You see white nationalist rhetoric all through mainstream American politics and it’s impacting how politicians behave, what laws they support, what judges they nominate.

And the veil is getting thinner and thinner. A former (and potentially future) President who yields massive influence over a large swath of American politicians has all but openly adopted a white nationalist philosophy. Another mainstream Presidential candidate has built his name and platform on white nationalist policies that now dominate the state of Florida.

And it’s Republicans like you that allow those politicians to come to power because you care so very little about the people that are impacted by their policies that you’ll even run to echo white nationalist talking points about how the left is overreacting and those black groups are the real criminals.

What elements of white nationalism have made their way into our laws and judiciary? What "white nationalist policies" dominate Florida?
 
What elements of white nationalism have made their way into our laws and judiciary? What "white nationalist policies" dominate Florida?

It's probably a stretch to say White Nationalist, but the cultural attacks in Florida are concerning. It's still wild to me that Desantis doubled down on the new racial teaching that says that, I'm paraphrasing here, that slavery helped some Slaves gain valuable skills. Just wild that a mainstream elected official supported that statement.
 
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It's probably a stretch to say White Nationalist, but the cultural attacks in Florida are concerning. It's still wild to me that Desantis doubled down on the new racial teaching that says that, I'm paraphrasing here, that slavery helped some Slaves gain valuable skills. Just wild that a mainstream elected official supported that statement.
That's a literal good example of white nationalism influence in government and politics. I'm just sayin...
 
It's probably a stretch to say White Nationalist, but the cultural attacks in Florida are concerning. It's still wild to me that Desantis doubled down on the new racial teaching that says that, I'm paraphrasing here, that slavery helped some Slaves gain valuable skills. Just wild that a mainstream elected official supported that statement.

Is there more context to that statement? Seems really stupid.
 
Here's the problem with dealing with every white nationalist movement. Most of the normal people, who aren't actively a part of it, go directly from the "you're crazy no way that is happening" phase, directly to the "this can't be happening" phase. And by the time the enablers like you @scotchtiger figure it out, it's already well beyond anyone's ability to stop.

Either recognize the signs or continue to point and laugh until it's too late. Nobody who values democracy can rationally think Trump is a better option than Biden, yet every one of you claiming right now to hate Trump, will rationalize your vote with "still better than Biden."

The real kicker will be when you find yourself just going along....
 
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Here's the problem with dealing with every white nationalist movement. Most of the normal people, who aren't actively a part of it, go directly from the "you're crazy no way that is happening" phase, directly to the "this can't be happening" phase. And by the time the enablers like you @scotchtiger figure it out, it's already well beyond anyone's ability to stop.

Either recognize the signs or continue to point and laugh until it's too late. Nobody who values democracy can rationally think Trump is a better option than Biden, yet every one of you claiming right now to hate Trump, will rationalize your vote with "still better than Biden."

The real kicker will be when you find yourself just going along....

While I generally agree with you, let's maybe bring the vitriol down a bit when talking with some of the resident conservatives who have shown themselves to be open to honest debate and discussion. That's what we all want here, but we need to give people some space for their opinions.

@scotchtiger has always shown himself to be fairly even and fair with his takes. I don't always agree, but I respect his willingness to be open and honest and to call out idiocy
 
While I generally agree with you, let's maybe bring the vitriol down a bit when talking with some of the resident conservatives who have shown themselves to be open to honest debate and discussion. That's what we all want here, but we need to give people some space for their opinions.

@scotchtiger has always shown himself to be fairly even and fair with his takes. I don't always agree, but I respect his willingness to be open and honest and to call out idiocy
I do not agree with your assessment here, but point taken nonetheless. This is why I don't post here very often. My patience ran out with Trump enablers after Charlottesville, so it's pretty calcified by now.
 
What elements of white nationalism have made their way into our laws and judiciary? What "white nationalist policies" dominate Florida?
This makes me wonder if you have a full understanding of what white nationalism is, and if you don’t then maybe it would make sense that you don’t think its very prevalent.

Let’s start with establishing that white nationalist philosophy is not the same as white supremacy philosophy. A white supremacist would say that racism isn’t a real thing because it’s purely a fact that whites are genetically superior. White nationalism suggests that racism is real but that white people, not minorities, are the victims of racism. This rhetoric is *everywhere* in conservative circles.

US White nationalism’s basic philosophy is that America was originally founded and made great by white people with white traditions and white values and white religions and that those people, traditions, values, and religions are now under attack by non-white races or ethnicities and so their goal is to protect those things. There are certainly elements of white supremacy within white nationalism, but they aren’t necessarily the same thing.

The first and most obvious example out of Florida is their changing of school curriculum to downplay the racism in the country’s history and to even go so far as to suggest that slavery was actually a positive thing. Again, they’re not necessarily saying “white people are better” or “racism never existed” they are instead downplaying it significantly, teaching less factual history around it, and effectively attempting to indoctrinate this generation with the idea that America has always been a morally good place, that it’s history (which was largely dominated by white people, traditions, values, and religion) is only positive - even for people that it doesn’t seem like it was positive for.

Changing curriculum to present a more favorable history of the state, by the way, is incredibly common in Fascist and other authoritarian states.

Next in Florida you have draconian regulations around the LGBT community, especially the Ts, with pretty explicit language that the desire is to protect traditions, values, and religious views.

Then you have fierce anti immigration laws. Again, xenophobia is a centerpiece of white nationalist philosophy.

The entire “anti-woke” movement that DeSantis is more or less the de facto leader of is absolutely steeped in white nationalist thinking and language.

I think it’s easy, easy to see just how pervasive white nationalist thinking is across the country, and most especially in conservative circles. Though the rhetoric has become so generic that even center left personalities like Bill Maher have become obsessed with it.

White nationalism is engrained in America’s psyche so deeply that attempts to move away from it are viewed as threats even by people who aren’t actually white nationalists.
 
You literally dismiss outright any suggestion of white nationalist influence in politics, and then when presented with glaring evidence you just assume it isn't being presented properly. Your ego is a fortress.

Good lord man. I didn't dismiss it outright. I asked for examples. I didn't assume yoshi presented something improperly, I ask for context/clarification because the statement was so stupid/absurd.

dbjork did the same thing earlier. You guys literally ignore my actual comment and reply to some comment that you fabricated in your head that made you extra outraged.
 
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Here's the problem with dealing with every white nationalist movement. Most of the normal people, who aren't actively a part of it, go directly from the "you're crazy no way that is happening" phase, directly to the "this can't be happening" phase. And by the time the enablers like you @scotchtiger figure it out, it's already well beyond anyone's ability to stop.

Either recognize the signs or continue to point and laugh until it's too late. Nobody who values democracy can rationally think Trump is a better option than Biden, yet every one of you claiming right now to hate Trump, will rationalize your vote with "still better than Biden."

The real kicker will be when you find yourself just going along....

So "every white nationalist movement" and "beyond anyone's ability to stop." Do you have some examples of these movements becoming unstoppable in highly developed countries in, say, the last 30 years?
 
So "every white nationalist movement" and "beyond anyone's ability to stop." Do you have some examples of these movements becoming unstoppable in highly developed countries in, say, the last 30 years?
LoL Why the qualifiers? What does the last 30 years have to do with anything? You're a piece of work, man.
 
Is there more context to that statement? Seems really stupid.

Yes, there is. That's not what it says. It's just what people like yoshi and others want it to say. I would make the point differently but these days, we don't possess much wisdom and even less nuance.
 
Good lord man. I didn't dismiss it outright. I asked for examples. I didn't assume yoshi presented something improperly, I ask for context/clarification because the statement was so stupid/absurd.

dbjork did the same thing earlier. You guys literally ignore my actual comment and reply to some comment that you fabricated in your head that made you extra outraged.

Good luck with this. You're going to get hit with the delusional bat that people carry around. Truth and reality about what you say are not relevant. Only what they want to hear and deem acceptable. If it's not OK, it's white supremacy or nationalism and you're enabling it. I'm guessing not a lot of people who say this crap have kids or understand the most important things about raising kids.
 
This makes me wonder if you have a full understanding of what white nationalism is, and if you don’t then maybe it would make sense that you don’t think its very prevalent.

Let’s start with establishing that white nationalist philosophy is not the same as white supremacy philosophy. A white supremacist would say that racism isn’t a real thing because it’s purely a fact that whites are genetically superior. White nationalism suggests that racism is real but that white people, not minorities, are the victims of racism. This rhetoric is *everywhere* in conservative circles.

US White nationalism’s basic philosophy is that America was originally founded and made great by white people with white traditions and white values and white religions and that those people, traditions, values, and religions are now under attack by non-white races or ethnicities and so their goal is to protect those things. There are certainly elements of white supremacy within white nationalism, but they aren’t necessarily the same thing.

The first and most obvious example out of Florida is their changing of school curriculum to downplay the racism in the country’s history and to even go so far as to suggest that slavery was actually a positive thing. Again, they’re not necessarily saying “white people are better” or “racism never existed” they are instead downplaying it significantly, teaching less factual history around it, and effectively attempting to indoctrinate this generation with the idea that America has always been a morally good place, that it’s history (which was largely dominated by white people, traditions, values, and religion) is only positive - even for people that it doesn’t seem like it was positive for.

Changing curriculum to present a more favorable history of the state, by the way, is incredibly common in Fascist and other authoritarian states.

Next in Florida you have draconian regulations around the LGBT community, especially the Ts, with pretty explicit language that the desire is to protect traditions, values, and religious views.

Then you have fierce anti immigration laws. Again, xenophobia is a centerpiece of white nationalist philosophy.

The entire “anti-woke” movement that DeSantis is more or less the de facto leader of is absolutely steeped in white nationalist thinking and language.

I think it’s easy, easy to see just how pervasive white nationalist thinking is across the country, and most especially in conservative circles. Though the rhetoric has become so generic that even center left personalities like Bill Maher have become obsessed with it.

White nationalism is engrained in America’s psyche so deeply that attempts to move away from it are viewed as threats even by people who aren’t actually white nationalists.

I appreciate the detailed post. I think there are some of these elements out there for sure. But I also think there is some nuance that places the vast majority of people securely outside of "white nationalism," even when it comes to some of those categories.

I think many people were turned off by things like DEI quotas and boys playing girls sports. That's reasonable. That's not white nationalism.

While we should teach accurate history about the wrongs committed in our past, we shouldn't teach kids to be ashamed of the current USA as a result. National pride is not white nationalism.

Immigration has been a thing forever. This isn't some new white nationalist movement. From 2004...

giphy.gif



I'm not a culture war guy and think Desantis' focus on it (and others) is over-the-top. But again, some of the early legislation - like not teaching kids about transexualism until after 3rd grade - isn't unreasonable or nationalistic.

Are there some who have taken it too far? Sure. Are there some who have just bought into the propaganda of furries and CRT in schools, which are mostly cheap parlor tricks to stir up votes? Sure.

I'm still not buying some systemic white nationalist movement.

BTW, does this comment fall under the white nationalist descriptor? It will be a good measuring stick.

Let's judge people based on the content of their character and the merit of their work rather than the color of their skin.

MLK obviously said something similar and the SCOTUS ruled in alignment, but it seems that comment may be considered white nationalist propaganda in today's climate.
 
LoL Why the qualifiers? What does the last 30 years have to do with anything? You're a piece of work, man.

Ah I figured. You were going to explain how the Nazi groundswell in the 1930s - before pretty much any technology existed and before general acceptance of racial equity - was somehow similar to what's happening in the 2020s, weren't you?

LOL. The qualifier helps me roundly dismiss absurd comparisons.
 
Ah I figured. You were going to explain how the Nazi groundswell in the 1930s - before pretty much any technology existed and before general acceptance of racial equity - was somehow similar to what's happening in the 2020s, weren't you?

LOL. The qualifier helps me roundly dismiss absurd comparisons.
I can't decide which part of this to make fun of more, the line about technology not existing or the line about the acceptance of racial equality. I overestimated you.

Edit - I went with the first one

🤣🤣 what planet am I on? A white nationalist movement isn't happening here now because in Germany in the 30s technology didn't exist? Ummm, okay!!
 
I can't decide which part of this to make fun of more, the line about technology not existing or the line about the acceptance of racial equality. I overestimated you.

Edit - I went with the first one

🤣🤣 what planet am I on? A white nationalist movement isn't happening here now because in Germany in the 30s technology didn't exist? Ummm, okay!!

You don’t think technology, communication and awareness changes the dynamic? Anyone seriously comparing nazi germany to this stuff has lost their mind and perspective.
 
Let’s see. How about a secure border, prosecute criminals, voter integrity, fiscal responsibility, consistent foreign policy, shake up the FBI, and DOJ! Get CRT out of our schools.
Just off the top of my head for starters
 
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Has it though? you seem to only measure impact in terms of the number of people you see marching in the street on tv, which is remarkably shallow and short sighted.

Surely you must be able to see how the ideology and philosophy of white nationalists have infiltrated and influenced American politics. You see white nationalist rhetoric all through mainstream American politics and it’s impacting how politicians behave, what laws they support, what judges they nominate.

And the veil is getting thinner and thinner. A former (and potentially future) President who yields massive influence over a large swath of American politicians has all but openly adopted a white nationalist philosophy. Another mainstream Presidential candidate has built his name and platform on white nationalist policies that now dominate the state of Florida.

And it’s Republicans like you that allow those politicians to come to power because you care so very little about the people that are impacted by their policies that you’ll even run to echo white nationalist talking points about how the left is overreacting and those black groups are the real criminals.
Why do Democrats make EVERY issue about race?? This is what has divided this country! Not white nationalists! We had a black president. Did race relations get better or worse during his administration?? Clearly worse. When is the unification that they preach going to actually start. Democrats pander and promise but never deliver. All they do is divide and make us hate each other.
Being patriotic and loving our country does not make someone a white nationalist! Since when did those qualities become a bad thing?
 
Why do Democrats make EVERY issue about race?? This is what has divided this country! Not white nationalists! We had a black president. Did race relations get better or worse during his administration?? Clearly worse. When is the unification that they preach going to actually start. Democrats pander and promise but never deliver. All they do is divide and make us hate each other.
Being patriotic and loving our country does not make someone a white nationalist! Since when did those qualities become a bad thing?
They got worse because of the white nationalist response to a black president, not because of a black president.
 
I hate, loathe, detest, abhor Trump. But I can still see this take is totally is unhinged. He's a bad person for sure. What we are seeing now is the closest thing to authoritarian we have seen in my life but nothing close to what transpired when FDR was in office. Just not sure how so many people in their desire to hyperbolize current events can be so willfully ignorant of history.
I'm at least 51% sure his post was just to stir the pot. To your point though, socialism is authoritarianism....even a Democratic/popular socialism. As for me, malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
 
I'm at least 51% sure his post was just to stir the pot. To your point though, socialism is authoritarianism....even a Democratic/popular socialism. As for me, malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
You're at least 51% incorrect.
 
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They got worse because of the white nationalist response to a black president, not because of a black president.
I'm 1000% convinced that we wouldn't have gotten Trump had Romney won in 2012. Wouldn't have riled up the white trash
 
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I'm 1000% convinced that we wouldn't have gotten Trump had Romney won in 2012. Wouldn't have riled up the white trash
You could have just said "the trash". Racist statements such as these only serve to perpetuate racism. At least this way you're only spewing hate, not hate tinged with racism. But something tells me you really don't want racism to die....
 
I'm 1000% convinced that we wouldn't have gotten Trump had Romney won in 2012. Wouldn't have riled up the white trash
Yeah you're probably right. The white nationalist movement was well underway in this country before Trump came along, but he sure gave it overt permission to come out of the shadows and be as awful as it felt like being.
 
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