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You're right, a lot of what Trump does is incredibly petty, and foolish. However, that doesn't make it illegal. That's the case with the Vindman and Sondland stuff. And you're correct that his base won't care, because in order to dismiss what people like Vindman and Sondland had to say, they engaged in character assassination. It's all kind of sad, but I still think we have to be clear that not everything inappropriate or bad is illegal. Democrats err when when they make maximalist critiques of everything Trump does. It puts not only the Trump fans on the defensive, but also everybody from conservatives to moderates. We should also be clear that not enough people have been convinced that this stuff is serious enough to do something serious about it.

That said, here's an interesting take from a Harvard Law professor who was head of the OLC for GW Bush. A lot of this reminds me of a more oafish Richard Nixon, in that Trump is becoming so personally indignant that he's bordering on paranoia. Everything revolves around getting back at the people he thinks are his enemies:

To understand the significance of President Trump’s intervention in Justice Department guidance about the Roger Stone sentence, consider President Barack Obama’s interview with Steve Kroft on 60 Minutes on October 11, 2015. Kroft asked Obama about the Hillary Clinton private email investigation. Obama said that Clinton’s email use was a “mistake” but that the issue had been “ginned up in part because of politics” and was “not a situation in which America's national security was endangered.” Obama added: “We don't get an impression that here there was purposely efforts … to hide something or to squirrel away information.”

Obama made similar points in an interview with Chris Wallace on April 10, 2016. “I can tell that you this is not a situation in which America's national security was endangered,” he said. Obama added that Clinton “would never intentionally put America in any kind of jeopardy,” and then suggested that Clinton did not have highly classified information on her server. When Wallace ask for assurances that there would be no political influence on the investigation, Obama said: “I do not talk to the Attorney General about pending investigations. I do not talk to FBI directors about pending investigations. We have a strict line, and always have maintained it.”

Obama here correctly described the norm that had governed White House-Justice Department relations since Watergate. The problem was that his public comments about the case expressed a view about how it should be resolved—a view known in short order to both the Attorney General and FBI Director. By publicly talking about the case and expressing a view about the merits, Obama violated the very norm of Justice Department independence that he articulated…

Republicans were furious when Obama prejudged the Clinton case, and when Bill Clinton visited Attorney General Sandra Lynch on the Phoenix airport tarmac, which also posed a least an appearance problem. They were furious because the president’s statements and the attorney general’s actions seemed to violate Justice Department independence and presented at least an appearance of self-serving law enforcement. That is an important principle.

But where are Republicans on that principle today, when President Trump violates it much more often and much more crassly and in much more obviously self-serving ways, all of which are enormously destructive to public confidence in law enforcement by the Justice Department? The answer is familiar but still ugly: They don’t care about the principle when ignoring it serves their political interests. Which means: they don’t care about the principle.

As for Attorney General Barr: He has contributed to the perception of politicized law enforcement by giving interviews and speeches that appear to prejudge the investigation of the origins of the 2016 FBI investigation into president Trump, and that, more broadly, indicate that he sees many law enforcement and law-compliance issues through a left-right political lens. But now he has acted in a manner consistent with the president’s overt and highly political wishes to minimize Stone’s sentence, and the president has praised him for it. Whatever the reality of Barr’s decisonmaking process, it definitely appears that he bowed to the President’s politically self-serving wishes.

Barr has a large conception of the president’s power to control investigations. But he is also, I still believe, a man of principle who loves the Justice Department. For his sake, and for the Department’s, he needs to make the president stop barking politicized commands to the Department. Or he needs to stop acting in ways consistent with those orders and provocations. Or, if he cannot do one of those two things, he should quit.




And here's what OBVIOUS NEVER TRUMPER and former WH Chief of Staff John Kelly has to say about Trump's behavior: https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...exander-vindman-north-korea-and-trump/606496/

"Vindman was rightly disturbed by Trump’s phone call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in July, Kelly suggested: Having seen something “questionable,” Vindman properly notified his superiors, Kelly said. Vindman, who specialized in Ukraine policy at the National Security Council at the time, was among multiple U.S. officials who listened in on the call. When subpoenaed by Congress in the House impeachment hearings, Vindman complied and told the truth, Kelly said.

“He did exactly what we teach them to do from cradle to grave,” Kelly told the audience at the Mayo Performing Arts Center. “He went and told his boss what he just heard.”

Although Trump has long insisted that his call to Zelensky was “perfect,” Kelly made clear that Trump indeed conditioned military aid on Zelensky’s help digging up dirt on the Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden.

That amounted to a momentous change in U.S. policy toward Ukraine—one that Vindman was right to flag, because other federal agencies needed to know about the shift, Kelly said.

“Through the Obama administration up until that phone call, the policy of the U.S. was militarily to support Ukraine in their defensive fight against … the Russians,” Kelly said. “And so, when the president said that continued support would be based on X, that essentially changed. And that’s what that guy [Vindman] was most interested in.”

When Vindman heard the president tell Zelensky he wanted to see the Biden family investigated, that was tantamount to hearing “an illegal order,” Kelly said. “We teach them, ‘Don’t follow an illegal order. And if you’re ever given one, you’ll raise it to whoever gives it to you that this is an illegal order, and then tell your boss.’”
 
These are such cop out responses. I’m not asking if you’ll vote for a socialist, I’m asking how many laws you’re willing to let the President break before you stop defending him and trying to justify his behavior. You’re creating a false choice.

And to excuse illegal behavior by the President because “whatever the Bidens did was worse” again smacks of intellectual dishonesty.

It would see to me that someone who is conservative and wants smaller government would be alarmed when the President’s defense in an impeachment trial is based around the President being incapable of breaking the law by the nature of the Presidency. This was Nixon’s argument as well. It would also seem it would be disturbing to any American when the President begins retaliating against witnesses in a trial.

And think about that. If the President can use the Justice Department to interfere in individual cases and sentences, where does that stop? I’ll never understand how someone could not be tremendously bothered by that kind of action by the President.

But Trump supporters don’t seem to care one bit about the way that the government is pushing more and more power to the executive all the time and the ramifications that could have not just in a second Trump term but in the long therm with future Presidents and the way they may be able to give themselves more authority.

If Trump was just about cutting taxes, reducing regulation, cutting spending on entitlements, and some of the other policy positions he’s gone over, then I’d have far less issue with him. I’d certainly vote for him over someone like Bernie Sanders. But this President seems determined to make himself as close to an authoritarian leader as America has ever seen and no one seems willing to hold him accountable for it.

So the question isn’t will you vote for a socialist or are other politicians corrupt or how bad are the Bidens or have other Presidents done bad things, the question is how far are people willing to let the President go in his amassing power and ignoring the rule of law and separation of powers before they stop defending him by talking about how great the economy is?

The economy is important, personal financial gain is important, but so is the constitution and so is the rule of law.

To level set, while I'm a Republican, I certainly don't think Trump is without fault. I did not vote for him in the primary, but he was the best option in November of 2016 and he's the best option again in November of 2020.

Some of this comes down to what you believe about the Ukraine situation and the left's accusations. I didn't follow the saga that closely because I thought it was a bit of a joke, but here's what we know:
  • Hunter Biden has very limited qualifications, got in the Navy via a waiver for his father and was promptly expelled for cocaine.
  • A year later, he was on the board of Burisma, a large natural gas / energy company run by a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch, making a ton of money.
  • Joe Biden bragged - on camera - about getting a prosecutor fired that was investigating Bruisma.
I have no idea if there was corruption, scandal, money laundering or whatever going on. But it sure looks odd. So it's not exactly out of the ordinary for a request to look further into this. And withholding aide to get what you want - whether it was tied to this or a broader effort to combat corruption - isn't a novel or unique tactic. Plenty of president's have done that.

The only reason there is a flag of any sort is because Biden was running for the democratic nomination. And at this point - in retrospect - the idea of him being a major threat to Trump is kind of silly. It's elder abuse to keep that guy out on the trail.

So yea, I don't really care about anything Trump did in this situation. Not because of blind loyalty to Trump, but because I think the whole thing is a giant nothing-burger.

As far as retaliating against witnesses, here's another perspective. A guy like Vindman is clearly anti-Trump and if you have someone in your employ that you can't trust and is possibly working to subvert you with other employees, it's completely reasonable to remove them. If one of my employees was toxic to my staff and my team's culture due to their feelings toward me, I would absolutely fire them.

I also think that the current political climate is forcing the executive branch to attempt to wield more power. Trump has been taking punches since he was elected. Investigations, Never Trumpers, Democrats, law suits, etc. What is he supposed to do to get things done? Rely on Nancy to pass something in the house? Coming from the private sector, I imagine he is used to getting things done and is frustrated with how incompetent and slow Washington is.

I don't follow all of the other legal sagas to know whether or not what Trump is doing is good, bad, dangerous, etc. I can't control them and they have little impact on my life. I don't watch the news that often and usually only pay attention to relevant things like policy, economy, market, etc.

Is Trump perfect? Absolutely not. But the guy is passing new, bipartisan trade deals. He's passing new, bipartisan criminal justice reform. The economy is roaring. The market is soaring. My taxes are down. Unemployment is at record lows - including minorities and females. Millions of people are coming off the government dole instead of going on it. Two major terror leaders are dead.

Things are good in Trump's America my man. I'm not sure why you would risk that by supporting hyper-liberal ideas that threaten to rock the structure of the greatest country and economy in the world.
 
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Remember. Stone was arrested at 6 am; by 30 or so FBI agents carrying machine guns; with CNN cameras set up and ready to go.
Think of that while you read this article.

https://nationalfile.com/court-docu...-up-agent-was-an-fbi-informant-under-mueller/
 
Remember. Stone was arrested at 6 am; by 30 or so FBI agents carrying machine guns; with CNN cameras set up and ready to go.
Think of that while you read this article.

https://nationalfile.com/court-docu...-up-agent-was-an-fbi-informant-under-mueller/

Here is National File's Editorial Team:

National File Editorial Team
Tom Pappert – Tom Pappert gained his interest in politics and political journalism as a teenager during the Republican primaries in 2011 as a supporter of Dr. Ron Paul. In 2015, Pappert began a viral Facebook page supporting President Donald Trump.

By 2020, his Facebook page had been deleted and reinstated by the platform six times. This led Pappert to begin writing for various publications in 2018, tracking the moves made by big tech platforms. Prior to launching National File, Pappert’s work has been featured in Breitbart, Big League Politics, and Infowars.

He has been featured on prominent local radio shows, as well as The Alex Jones Show, War Room, and The David Knight Show.

Twitter: @realGETrump

Gabriel Keane – Gabriel Keane is a social media critic best known for viral content, and a reporter who began working in political news in 2017. Earlier in life, Keane gained an interest in social commentary through listening to talk radio. Keane’s work has been featured on Infowars, and covered by The Alex Jones Show.

Elsewhere on the internet, National File is described as a "conspiracy" website.


Here's what Stone was convicted of: In 2017, a (GOP-led) House committee investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election examined the role WikiLeaks played in the Russia-orchestrated theft of a trove of emails from the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign. Stone, who had shown suspicious foreknowledge of WikiLeaks’ release of that trove, was called before the committee to testify. Speaking under oath, Stone claimed that he had never asked his sources to communicate messages to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and that he had never discussed WikiLeaks with his friends on the Trump campaign. The court established that these were lies. In order to cover up his lies, Stone also tried to badger his associate Roger Credico into lying to Congress as well.

It makes sense to me to argue that the way Stone was arrested and his sentence were too much, but that doesn't make the way Trump has tried to personally intervene on Stone's behalf any better. It certainly doesn't make Barr's attempt to get the sentence reduced look altruistic, even if it is. But that's the problem with Trump- he's constantly doing something stupid because doesn't care about or know about the norms around governing. At some point, you have to get beyond "not being a politician" to being competent.
 
- I’ll ignore “strong economy” and “pro business” because that implies that an inverse position exists. Don’t believe anyone has ever run on the platform of “I want a weak economy and businesses to fail.”

- Tariffs are not a Republican position; free trade is.

- Limiting legal immigration is not a Republican position. Our nation was built on it.

- Environmental conservation is a Republican position; many of the regulations cut fly in the face of that.

- Fiscal conservatism is a Republican position. That’s not achieved by cutting taxes without spending offsets. You cut spending BEFORE you cut revenues, or worst case, as the same time. Do it 3-4 years later and guess what? You’ve added trillions to the National Debt.

- Reforming entitlements?
Trump in 2015 - “I'm not going to cut Social Security like every other Republican and I'm not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid. Every other Republican's going to cut, and even if they wouldn't, they don't know what to do because they don't know where the money is. I do. I do." Promises made, promises kept right? He also tweeted out a few weeks ago that he wouldn’t touch SS or Medicare.

Ok, so let’s do away 100% with unemployment benefits/SNAP/etc. That accounted for $303 billion in FY2019. We would still have had a deficit of $682 billion. The math doesn’t work, and you don’t have to land on either side of the aisle to understand that.

As for his promise to balance the budget, he promised in 2016 to eliminate the Federal Debt in 8 years. Instead, he’s grown it by $3 trillion. Not paid it down, or even slowed the increase. He either doesn’t understand what he’s doing, or (more likely) doesn’t care and will let the next guy deal with it.

- Perpetual tariffs are certainly not a Republican position, but what about temporary tariffs used as negotiation leverage to get better trade deals? The political position isn't tariffs, it's more favorable trade for America. Tariffs are just a tool in that, not a policy.

- The focus is on illegal immigration, not legal immigration. There have been some logical reforms on legal immigration as well, such as restrictions on countries who knowingly harbor anti-US terrorists. Seems reasonable.

- I don't know enough about the details of his regulatory cuts to understand how they impact nature conservancy.

- Fiscal conservatism - We haven't had this in a while, but I certainly would prefer it. Hard to consider it a prerequisite to be a Republican. Knowing that real spending cuts will be extremely difficult because nobody will address the big categories, I'll take tax cuts in the meantime that have a major, positive impact on my family.

-He's at least working on some entitlement reform, though I would prefer much more. Work requirements, Medicare cost/drug reform proposals, etc. I would prefer more aggressive action like raising the eligibility age for Medicare. How much would we save if this was 70 yo in stead of 65? Hundreds of billions?

Who are you supporting in November that has better positions and a realistic chance to win?
 
To level set, while I'm a Republican, I certainly don't think Trump is without fault. I did not vote for him in the primary, but he was the best option in November of 2016 and he's the best option again in November of 2020.

Some of this comes down to what you believe about the Ukraine situation and the left's accusations. I didn't follow the saga that closely because I thought it was a bit of a joke, but here's what we know:
  • Hunter Biden has very limited qualifications, got in the Navy via a waiver for his father and was promptly expelled for cocaine.
  • A year later, he was on the board of Burisma, a large natural gas / energy company run by a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch, making a ton of money.
  • Joe Biden bragged - on camera - about getting a prosecutor fired that was investigating Bruisma.
I have no idea if there was corruption, scandal, money laundering or whatever going on. But it sure looks odd. So it's not exactly out of the ordinary for a request to look further into this. And withholding aide to get what you want - whether it was tied to this or a broader effort to combat corruption - isn't a novel or unique tactic. Plenty of president's have done that.

The only reason there is a flag of any sort is because Biden was running for the democratic nomination. And at this point - in retrospect - the idea of him being a major threat to Trump is kind of silly. It's elder abuse to keep that guy out on the trail.

So yea, I don't really care about anything Trump did in this situation. Not because of blind loyalty to Trump, but because I think the whole thing is a giant nothing-burger.

As far as retaliating against witnesses, here's another perspective. A guy like Vindman is clearly anti-Trump and if you have someone in your employ that you can't trust and is possibly working to subvert you with other employees, it's completely reasonable to remove them. If one of my employees was toxic to my staff and my team's culture due to their feelings toward me, I would absolutely fire them.

I also think that the current political climate is forcing the executive branch to attempt to wield more power. Trump has been taking punches since he was elected. Investigations, Never Trumpers, Democrats, law suits, etc. What is he supposed to do to get things done? Rely on Nancy to pass something in the house? Coming from the private sector, I imagine he is used to getting things done and is frustrated with how incompetent and slow Washington is.

I don't follow all of the other legal sagas to know whether or not what Trump is doing is good, bad, dangerous, etc. I can't control them and they have little impact on my life. I don't watch the news that often and usually only pay attention to relevant things like policy, economy, market, etc.

Is Trump perfect? Absolutely not. But the guy is passing new, bipartisan trade deals. He's passing new, bipartisan criminal justice reform. The economy is roaring. The market is soaring. My taxes are down. Unemployment is at record lows - including minorities and females. Millions of people are coming off the government dole instead of going on it. Two major terror leaders are dead.

Things are good in Trump's America my man. I'm not sure why you would risk that by supporting hyper-liberal ideas that threaten to rock the structure of the greatest country and economy in the world.

The bolded part is your problem. Too many people are ignoring the whole history of Shokin's ouster and looking at the issue as if it was born yesterday, when Trump's phone call to Zelensky was revealed. In fact, there was an international and Ukrainian coalition of anti-corruption crusaders who wanted Shokin gone because he wasn't hard enough on corruption. Shokin wasn't investigating Burisma when Biden pressured Ukraine to sack him. Biden probably shouldn't have headed up the US's part of that coalition because of his apparent conflict of interest, but that doesn't make the attempt to oust Shokin any less righteous. But, because Trump bought into some sort of conspiracy theory about Ukraine meddling in American elections and then being used to prompt the investigation into Trump's campaign, he viewed Shokin as a martyr because of his anti-corruption efforts. Trump then used Congressionally mandated aid to Ukraine to try to get Ukraine to investigate this conspiracy theory, including having them investigate a political rival of his. The most plausible part of all of what Trump was doing has to do with an apparent conflict of interest between Joe Biden's work as the VP and Hunter Biden being on the board of Burisma. But given the above about where Trump's interest in Ukraine came from, it's hard to believe Trump wasn't motivated mostly be personal factors. There were also much better ways of going about investigating this stuff if Trump thought it was fully legitimate, but instead he used a shadow foreign policy involving his personal lawyer.

This is why many Republicans stopped denying that Trump was offering a quid pro quo for an investigation into Biden, and instead argued that what Trump did was bad and inappropriate, but not worth impeaching or removing over. This is a much better argument, given the facts.

There's also no evidence at all that Vindman, Sondland (LOL), or Yovanovitch (who Trump also criticized on the phone call to Zelensky) were somehow "anti-Trump" partisans. But there is evidence that they didn't think our policy towards Ukraine should be driven by conspiracy theories about why Trump's campaign was investigated.
 
Here is National File's Editorial Team:

National File Editorial Team
Tom Pappert – Tom Pappert gained his interest in politics and political journalism as a teenager during the Republican primaries in 2011 as a supporter of Dr. Ron Paul. In 2015, Pappert began a viral Facebook page supporting President Donald Trump.

By 2020, his Facebook page had been deleted and reinstated by the platform six times. This led Pappert to begin writing for various publications in 2018, tracking the moves made by big tech platforms. Prior to launching National File, Pappert’s work has been featured in Breitbart, Big League Politics, and Infowars.

He has been featured on prominent local radio shows, as well as The Alex Jones Show, War Room, and The David Knight Show.

Twitter: @realGETrump

Gabriel Keane – Gabriel Keane is a social media critic best known for viral content, and a reporter who began working in political news in 2017. Earlier in life, Keane gained an interest in social commentary through listening to talk radio. Keane’s work has been featured on Infowars, and covered by The Alex Jones Show.

Elsewhere on the internet, National File is described as a "conspiracy" website.


Here's what Stone was convicted of: In 2017, a (GOP-led) House committee investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election examined the role WikiLeaks played in the Russia-orchestrated theft of a trove of emails from the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign. Stone, who had shown suspicious foreknowledge of WikiLeaks’ release of that trove, was called before the committee to testify. Speaking under oath, Stone claimed that he had never asked his sources to communicate messages to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and that he had never discussed WikiLeaks with his friends on the Trump campaign. The court established that these were lies. In order to cover up his lies, Stone also tried to badger his associate Roger Credico into lying to Congress as well.

It makes sense to me to argue that the way Stone was arrested and his sentence were too much, but that doesn't make the way Trump has tried to personally intervene on Stone's behalf any better. It certainly doesn't make Barr's attempt to get the sentence reduced look altruistic, even if it is. But that's the problem with Trump- he's constantly doing something stupid because doesn't care about or know about the norms around governing. At some point, you have to get beyond "not being a politician" to being competent.

Well, Roger Credico wrote a letter to the judge requesting no jail time for Stone.
So, having a left winged political activist, who lied on her jury inquiry form, as the head juror in the case, doesn't bother you at all.
You think Trump is doing something stupid. I think Trump is purposely doing it because it is a back door way to uncover all of the bad actors mentioned in the article. Trump draws attention to these type of things, because most people don't know the underlying facts. It is a strategy; not stupidity. After all, as POTUS, he could simply pardon Stone and that would be perfectly lawful.
 
The bolded part is your problem. Too many people are ignoring the whole history of Shokin's ouster and looking at the issue as if it was born yesterday, when Trump's phone call to Zelensky was revealed. In fact, there was an international and Ukrainian coalition of anti-corruption crusaders who wanted Shokin gone because he wasn't hard enough on corruption. Shokin wasn't investigating Burisma when Biden pressured Ukraine to sack him. Biden probably shouldn't have headed up the US's part of that coalition because of his apparent conflict of interest, but that doesn't make the attempt to oust Shokin any less righteous. But, because Trump bought into some sort of conspiracy theory about Ukraine meddling in American elections and then being used to prompt the investigation into Trump's campaign, he viewed Shokin as a martyr because of his anti-corruption efforts. Trump then used Congressionally mandated aid to Ukraine to try to get Ukraine to investigate this conspiracy theory, including having them investigate a political rival of his. The most plausible part of all of what Trump was doing has to do with an apparent conflict of interest between Joe Biden's work as the VP and Hunter Biden being on the board of Burisma. But given the above about where Trump's interest in Ukraine came from, it's hard to believe Trump wasn't motivated mostly be personal factors. There were also much better ways of going about investigating this stuff if Trump thought it was fully legitimate, but instead he used a shadow foreign policy involving his personal lawyer.

This is why many Republicans stopped denying that Trump was offering a quid pro quo for an investigation into Biden, and instead argued that what Trump did was bad and inappropriate, but not worth impeaching or removing over. This is a much better argument, given the facts.

There's also no evidence at all that Vindman, Sondland (LOL), or Yovanovitch (who Trump also criticized on the phone call to Zelensky) were somehow "anti-Trump" partisans. But there is evidence that they didn't think our policy towards Ukraine should be driven by conspiracy theories about why Trump's campaign was investigated.

This response is full of nothing but msm propaganda. Unfortunately, I don't have time at the moment to respond properly. Hopefully, @scotchtiger will.
 
This right here is an example of a deep state creature who is scared sh!tless of what is coming. He tries to cover up a third world, banana republic investigation of a political opponent, by projecting that very thing on Trump!
The facts don't break, no matter how much you bend them, Chucky.

 
Ah, so you're a conspiracy theorist? What are your thoughts on QAnon and Infowars?

Emphatically yes. I've had to stop engaging with him entirely because it just breaks my brain. My sources are always crackpot lefty sites and I just have to "sit back and watch" for Alex Jones' to come true.
 
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Emphatically yes. I've had to stop engaging with him entirely because it just breaks my brain. My sources are always crackpot lefty sites and I just have to "sit back and watch" for Alex Jones' to come true.

“Sit back and watch” is sort of a calling card for the QAnon and Alex Jones-types. There's an interesting political psychology paper that could be written about how some populists are actually more likely to believe things when they're reported by disreputable people, and less likely to believe something the more reputable people deny it. They're so cynical about institutions that they take institutional affirmation as evidence of something being wrong, and being disreputable as evidence of trustworthiness.
 
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Dude, gatewaypundit?

Yes dude. The article has excerpts from both Fox News and CNN. Are you scared to read anything other than msm? Grow a pair and learn to think for self.
You and others let the msm get you all wrapped up and then toast your brain. All they have to do is start a sentence with "Bombshell". How much time has the msm spent on the 17 lies of the FBI to the FISA court? haha, you probably don't even believe the FBI has done anything wrong! Keep drinking that kool-aid my man. How'd that Russian Collusion turn out? Has Adam Schiff finally stopped claiming he has obvious evidence of it? Why wasn't any of the Mueller Report put into the articles of impeachment? Trump's guilty right? You should be calling Schiff and Pelosi and demanding they reopen impeachment hearing!
 
Been reading your responses itt. I won't respond to everything that I believe is straight fiction, but have just one question. When Clinton took office, he fired every single US atty. Did he break the law also?
Bush and Clinton and Obama all did the same thing. The difference was they all did it in a planned way with replacements ready. Trump fired a bunch of them and left the positions empty.

Not that anything will get you to stop drinking the koolaid.
 
Grow a pair and learn to think for self.
Said to @camcgee lol the man is the exact opposite of someone who doesn't think for themselves. We disagree almost exactly as often as we agree.

You will never, ever be capable of looking inward and doing any kind of self analysis.
 
Bush and Clinton and Obama all did the same thing. The difference was they all did it in a planned way with replacements ready. Trump fired a bunch of them and left the positions empty.

Not that anything will get you to stop drinking the koolaid.

It wasn't just that they did it with replacements ready to go, it was that they weren't actively punishing people for testifying against them. It's the difference between firing an offensive coordinator because you want to switch offensive schemes and firing them because they reported you for cheating.
 
Yes dude. The article has excerpts from both Fox News and CNN. Are you scared to read anything other than msm? Grow a pair and learn to think for self.
You and others let the msm get you all wrapped up and then toast your brain. All they have to do is start a sentence with "Bombshell". How much time has the msm spent on the 17 lies of the FBI to the FISA court? haha, you probably don't even believe the FBI has done anything wrong! Keep drinking that kool-aid my man. How'd that Russian Collusion turn out? Has Adam Schiff finally stopped claiming he has obvious evidence of it? Why wasn't any of the Mueller Report put into the articles of impeachment? Trump's guilty right? You should be calling Schiff and Pelosi and demanding they reopen impeachment hearing!
There’s a difference between credible non-MSM sources and the conspiracy theorist stuff you’re pushing.
 
Bush and Clinton and Obama all did the same thing. The difference was they all did it in a planned way with replacements ready. Trump fired a bunch of them and left the positions empty.

Not that anything will get you to stop drinking the koolaid.

Here's your homework. How many did Clinton and Bush have in the NSC. Now, compare that to Obama; and the timing of the flurry of appointments at the end of his admin.
 
There’s a difference between credible non-MSM sources and the conspiracy theorist stuff you’re pushing.

Tell me which of this is conspiracy theory:
1. Russia Collusion was pushed by the MSM and Adam Schiff, daily for 3 years.
2. For 3 years, I've pointed out that it wasn't true.
3. Mueller Report, testimony, and the lack of any impeachment articles regarding Russia, proves my point.
4. Horowitz report points out 17 "problems" with the FISA process; including the act of changing the content of an email to make the 'evidence" favorable ' for FISA acceptance.
5. John Brennan lied to Congress under oath
6. Clapper lied to Congress under oath.
7. Comey lied to congress under oath

Some of you hate Trump so much, you'll believe anything. The above is just for starters. The above are topics that caused some of you to first claim that I was a conspiracy theorist.
 
Some of you hate Trump so much, you'll believe anything.

Change Trump with Obama and it would still be true. Matter of fact change Trump with Bush, Clinton, H.W., Reagan or Nixon and the sentence will still be true.
 
Tell me which of this is conspiracy theory:
1. Russia Collusion was pushed by the MSM and Adam Schiff, daily for 3 years.
I know Schiff is a bete noire for a lot of people, but he's just a typical partisan committee chair. Yes, he and the media were very into the Russian collusion thing, and yes, the investigation began under dubious circumstances. I'm not so sure there shouldn't have been an investigation into what Russia was doing, even if it shouldn't necessarily have been focused on the Trump campaign. Trump and some of his people's behavior certainly didn't do much to keep the focus off of them, though. But we're talking about Ukraine, not Russia.

2. For 3 years, I've pointed out that it wasn't true.
That's nice, but unless you had some sort of special information you got personally, all you could do is guess. My guess was also that they wouldn't find anything criminal, but that they'd find a lot of stupid. As we got more information, you could make a more educated guess. The end result was a Mueller Report that actually didn't make Trump look very good, but that fell short of finding anything criminal. But I guess that's enough for celebration for some people.

3. Mueller Report, testimony, and the lack of any impeachment articles regarding Russia, proves my point.
As I said above, your "point" was just based on partisan conjecture. And the Mueller Report actually doesn't show that there was no good reason at all to think the Trump campaign was at least trying to work with Russia, even if it doesn't say anything criminal happened, and even if the pretenses for the investigation were bad.

4. Horowitz report points out 17 "problems" with the FISA process; including the act of changing the content of an email to make the 'evidence" favorable ' for FISA acceptance.
Yes, exactly right. Again, this has nothing to do with Ukraine, and doesn't really tell us much about your conspiracy theory.

5. John Brennan lied to Congress under oath
6. Clapper lied to Congress under oath.
7. Comey lied to congress under oath
Irrelevant to Ukraine

Some of you hate Trump so much, you'll believe anything. The above is just for starters. The above are topics that caused some of you to first claim that I was a conspiracy theorist.
 
Tell me which of this is conspiracy theory:
1. Russia Collusion was pushed by the MSM and Adam Schiff, daily for 3 years.
2. For 3 years, I've pointed out that it wasn't true.
3. Mueller Report, testimony, and the lack of any impeachment articles regarding Russia, proves my point.
4. Horowitz report points out 17 "problems" with the FISA process; including the act of changing the content of an email to make the 'evidence" favorable ' for FISA acceptance.
5. John Brennan lied to Congress under oath
6. Clapper lied to Congress under oath.
7. Comey lied to congress under oath

Some of you hate Trump so much, you'll believe anything. The above is just for starters. The above are topics that caused some of you to first claim that I was a conspiracy theorist.

I see you conveniently left off Andrew McCabe's name. You have frequently said "wait and see" McCabe will be doing a "perp walk". Trump's DOJ just dropped the case against him today. Another one of your conspiracies up in smoke, just like the IG report, just like the Clinton Foundation investigation.
 
I see you conveniently left off Andrew McCabe's name. You have frequently said "wait and see" McCabe will be doing a "perp walk". Trump's DOJ just dropped the case against him today. Another one of your conspiracies up in smoke, just like the IG report, just like the Clinton Foundation investigation.

LMAO! Yes! You almost had it right. Actually, they never tried to develop a case. They declined to prosecute; even though he was specifically referred for prosecution by IG Horowitz. Did the same with Comey,who was also referred for prosecution. You think maybe they are holding off because bigger charges are already in the works? Exactly what do you think Durham is doing? The DOJ is not gonna screw around with "process charges" when they have serious charges already in Grand Jury. They only use process charges when they don't otherwise have a case... see: Gen Flynn, Popadopoulis, Stone, etc.
 
LMAO! Yes! You almost had it right. Actually, they never tried to develop a case. They declined to prosecute; even though he was specifically referred for prosecution by IG Horowitz. Did the same with Comey,who was also referred for prosecution. You think maybe they are holding off because bigger charges are already in the works? Exactly what do you think Durham is doing? The DOJ is not gonna screw around with "process charges" when they have serious charges already in Grand Jury. They only use process charges when they don't otherwise have a case... see: Gen Flynn, Popadopoulis, Stone, etc.

ok cool, i'll just continue waiting to see.
 
ok cool, i'll just continue waiting to see.

Good. As we all are. If nothing else, one should ask themselves why a top FBI official, who put his signature on a FISA App that has been deemed illegal, is not being investigated for lying to the IG. As you know, plenty of others have been prosecuted for lying, both to Congress and to the FBI. You and I have both agreed in previous conversations that "no one is above the law".
I will again post a well researched and referenced article, that goes a little deeper into what was going on in 2016 and early 2017 regarding FISA. It is a little cumbersome and takes some time to digest; especially if you follow the links in the article. I also understand that I probably have more time than most to pursue such things, but it is worth consideration.

https://themarketswork.com/2018/04/...investigation-section-702-fisa-abuse-the-fbi/
 
Looks like Lindsey Graham is getting geared up to finally get his hearings underway in Senate Intel. House repubs boycotted a hearing in House Intel earlier this week because Schiff refuses to investigate FISA! I can fill up a page with links to all the times he said FISA process was ok and that Nunez was full of it. Looks like he's missing a great opportunity to make hay!

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Here's your homework. How many did Clinton and Bush have in the NSC. Now, compare that to Obama; and the timing of the flurry of appointments at the end of his admin.
What is the answer to your homework? I admit I might not have been prepared for this detail.
 
Ok, but Donald Trump still won the Republican nomination. All of this sounds sort of reasonable, but we're not living in a reasonable political world. The only analysis I see any point in doing is to see how strong the populist feeling is in each primary state, along with to look at who's dividing up the reasonable vote. Donald Trump was nominated because too many normal candidates stayed in the race for too long, because none of them wanted to believe the best thing to do was to drop out and support someone else. We'll see if that happens to Democrats, too.

This theory was debunked. Trump was the 2nd choice of a lot of voters in the republican primaries back in 2016. He was going to win no matter what in 2016 and he will win again in 2020. The Don only knows how to win.
 
This theory was debunked. Trump was the 2nd choice of a lot of voters in the republican primaries back in 2016. He was going to win no matter what in 2016 and he will win again in 2020. The Don only knows how to win.
Where are you getting that from? The fact is, he won the primary with something like 23% of the vote. The stuff about “the Don” is just personality cultism.
 
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Where are you getting that from? The fact is, he won the primary with something like 23% of the vote. The stuff about “the Don” is just personality cultism.

The Don is just what I call him and sorry if you dont like it. I have listened to discussions on this topic on Fox with the pollsters trying to compare the dems this year to the repubs in 2016 and they pointed out that Trump was the 2nd choice of a lot of voters that werent supporting him early on, so if the other repubs whittled down earlier it would not have stopped Trump at all. There is no Trump cult. Supporters just like what he does and its that simple. If he quit keeping his promises and doing what I want done, then I would quit supporting him.
 
The Don is just what I call him and sorry if you dont like it. I have listened to discussions on this topic on Fox with the pollsters trying to compare the dems this year to the repubs in 2016 and they pointed out that Trump was the 2nd choice of a lot of voters that werent supporting him early on, so if the other repubs whittled down earlier it would not have stopped Trump at all. There is no Trump cult. Supporters just like what he does and its that simple. If he quit keeping his promises and doing what I want done, then I would quit supporting him.

This sounds a lot like describing yourself as a cult member, and then denying that there’s any cult.
 
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Super good one. You’re on a Clemson site and have Trump hat as your signature. But you’re totally not in too deep.

I am a Clemson fan and a Trump supporter. Hopefully thats not too hard for you to comprehend. I just stated my point and you are trying to change the subject. You appear to be one of those with Trump Derangement Syndrome. Get a grip man. The country is doing great under the leadership of our great president and will continue to get better over the next 5 years of his stint in the White House.
 
I am a Clemson fan and a Trump supporter. Hopefully thats not too hard for you to comprehend. I just stated my point and you are trying to change the subject. You appear to be one of those with Trump Derangement Syndrome. Get a grip man. The country is doing great under the leadership of our great president and will continue to get better over the next 5 years of his stint in the White House.
You people are so weird
 
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Super good one. You’re on a Clemson site and have Trump hat as your signature. But you’re totally not in too deep.
It is absolutely a cult of personality and it's going to sink the party. Which is not a good thing.
 
But I had a friend from Venezuela that told me socialism was good? :shrug:

"Had"? He starve to death?

(Serious question - hope he's alright).

My guess is Pete at this point. Warren and Biden are done. Zero momentum. Moderates have found homes with Pete and Amy.

Sanders had a closer call in NH than last time. Maybe that's a sign that the electorate isn't insane enough to nominate a socialist. Guess we will see.

Buttigeg will wind up near zero in the southern states. Bloomberg is the probable winner there before the tapes came out. No idea now.

They should. Sanders isn’t a democrat.

Sanders is an independent.
Bloomberg is a Republican turned independent
Trump was a NY Democrat who ran as a Republican

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