Larry , wonder if moving it to the spring would if even help at this time if the NFL would move back their nfl draft. All this would depend on when a vaccine would be available .
Will there be college football? A new flurry of pessimism has arrived
- Thread starter Cris_Ard
- Start date
Larry , wonder if moving it to the spring would if even help at this time if the NFL would move back their nfl draft. All this would depend on when a vaccine would be available .
You make good points from a fan/booster perspective, but that’s not the view that an agent would present, and we know they will eventually be in these valuable players’ ears.
"Most didn't have any symptoms at all." We toss that in like it's irrelevant. Spot the ball.
If you are elderly and have a compromised immune system you should avoid crowds and stay home.
If you are elderly and have a compromised immune system you should avoid crowds and stay home.
A lot of hypocrisy with the pessimists. Football is a violent sport. If we are truly that concerned about the less than 1% bad outcome we should be equally concerned for their health playing a violent game like football.
I swear some people need to get off Twitter and stop watching the breathless fear mongering the media pushes out.
Spot the ball.
I swear some people need to get off Twitter and stop watching the breathless fear mongering the media pushes out.
Spot the ball.
IMO we have to be prepared for headlines like that. Life must go on. We put in as many safety measures as we can and go forward with the season.
Despite what some have said ITT, college football is not a hobby. It employs hundreds of thousands of people across the US, not to mention it helps fund the universities. IMO not having football isn’t really an option here.
It’s obvious so many liberal journalists seems like sports needs to be put on the shelf until there’s a vaccine or have hardly any positive tests. They better be careful what they wish for, because if sports does not come back as a whole there will be literally zero reason for any of them to have a job.
Not sure if you’re old enough to remember the Ford years, but a similar hubris concerning the priority of football once led to our downfall and wandering in the wilderness for 20 years. I don’t think we’ll see Dan and Dabo take that stand. Their priority for players will be health, education, and then football - as it should be.
If we cancel football this year....
Then what if no vaccine is found? The common cold is a Coronavirus. We’ve never found a vaccine for it.
The best vaccines for the flu (not a Coronavirus) are only around 35% effective in any given year. Plenty of people that get a flu shot end up catching the flu.
So all of the “what if scenarios” that Thamel, Wolken and Hale are espousing in their articles and tweets will apply next year as well with or without a Covid 19 vaccine.
A vaccine cannot and will not guarantee players won’t catch it next year. So a player with a latent underlying condition could catch it next year even with a vaccine.
Without Clemson football or basketball there is no reason to have Clemson sports media.
Without Clemson football or basketball for two seasons there won’t be any other Clemson sports left as there will be no revenue to pay for the scholarships.
Seems to me like the sports media is writing its own poison pill on this one.
Not a well thought out business plan.
@Cris_Ard @Larry_Williams @Paul Strelow
Then what if no vaccine is found? The common cold is a Coronavirus. We’ve never found a vaccine for it.
The best vaccines for the flu (not a Coronavirus) are only around 35% effective in any given year. Plenty of people that get a flu shot end up catching the flu.
So all of the “what if scenarios” that Thamel, Wolken and Hale are espousing in their articles and tweets will apply next year as well with or without a Covid 19 vaccine.
A vaccine cannot and will not guarantee players won’t catch it next year. So a player with a latent underlying condition could catch it next year even with a vaccine.
Without Clemson football or basketball there is no reason to have Clemson sports media.
Without Clemson football or basketball for two seasons there won’t be any other Clemson sports left as there will be no revenue to pay for the scholarships.
Seems to me like the sports media is writing its own poison pill on this one.
Not a well thought out business plan.
@Cris_Ard @Larry_Williams @Paul Strelow
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Such BS. So a reporter should be a homer for college football rather than say, “a reporter”? So it will make a difference in the outcome if Thames and Wolken are cheerleaders?
You should work for the Trump administration where people who tell the emperor with no clothes that his gown is beautiful keep their jobs. Those who tell the truth get fired.
Yep. These journalists better change their way of thinking real quick because no one will have any need for information as there won’t be any information to give.
It’s up to them, but they are digging their own grave. The only person on this site out of the three who run it that seems to make the most sense by far is Cris. He understands business and the economy. He knows Clemson has to play, or else the AD will falter in a big way.
Larry comes across as being closer to the Dan Wolken side.
With all due respect Thamel and Wolken aren’t telling the truth now. None of their articles are balanced. They cite what if scenarios and report positive cases without equally citing the statistics on deaths, illness, or hospitalizations in this age bracket. They are not reporting how rare it is for a healthy 18-23 year old to be hospitalized with Covid 19.
At least give both sides of the argument.
I commend your positivity, and you’re correct.. you have.
I hope your optimism in regards to CV19, catches up to your positive morning posts.
F U Bernie. If there are no sports, there is reduced need for sports journalism. As evidenced but there already being layoffs at The Athletic. Do you think a year with no football is good for the TI business model?
I’m not advocating a political side but rather we look at the actual data and statistics related to this disease in this age bracket. Then let’s make decisions and take necessary precautions based on the actual data and not fear.
How will anything that Larry Williams writes impact whether there is a college football season? This is why there is “no cheering in the press box” and why TI is right to not be a fan—boy publication. Larry and Paul give their views without fear of consequence. And that is how it should be.
Does it matter whether Athletic writers were optimists or pessimists about sports’ future due to Covid? Is there any evidence that the publisher furloughed only reporters who were pessimists?
I’d be embarrassed to work for a publication where I was told, “you’d better not bring any worries about the future of college football onto the pages of this publication because that is bad for my business model.”
Fortunately, neither Larry nor Paul need to worry about that even if Cris, the publisher, is more optimistic.
(Btw, I don’t understand how that is socialist thinking on my part. It is a hard-line conservative view of freedom of the press. As a former reporter, I am a fervent supporter of the First Amendment. A strict constitutionalist. Besides, I didn’t support Bernie for anything.)
I agree, COVID isn’t going away and I’m not holding my breath for a vaccine. All we can hope for is continuing mutation making the virus less severe along with therapeutics and increased competency by medical professionals in treating. If this comes together and fear subsides as a result, we will return to a new normal.
Until this occurs I’m afraid we will be stuck in the current situation. Like it or not, a large % of our country won’t simply look the other way for the sake of college football. It helps them when political and media motivations align with theirs.
the point was to have fair and balanced perspectives in the articles. Thamel and Wolken are pretty obvious with their COVID biases. The press with a few notable exceptions has an overwhelming liberal bias. Not surprised you are a former journalist.
for the record, don’t care for Trump.
The laughable irony of your j’accuse is that were it true and our great TI journalists so compromised, then they’d have already zonked you with the ban hammer.
Same....Clemson Football literally consumes my life from August to January. I’ll actually be expected to attend family, friend and work functions without football this season...but I just don’t see them taking a risk
What in the world are you talking about here? That has nothing to do with this situation. How does Danny running his mouth about athletic dorms compare to the discussion over canceling football due to a virus that’s only slightly worse than the flu?
Good grief you’re insufferable. You’re just as annoying as the radical right posters on here. Give it a rest while we discuss something important.
All of them do a great job at what they do, but that is merely an observation I’ve noticed the past few weeks. I’m not the only one.
I totally agree there will be headlines like this, however they are going to happen regardless if they play or not. Like the one coach said in the article we are going to have to learn to be comfortable with the uncomfortable. This isn’t going away if we decide not to play football or have students back in dorms. Some people believe we can control this, unfortunately we can’t, just like we can’t control the weather in Death Valley before a big game. It’s highly contagious and all people are going to be and probably have been exposed to it in one way or another. If we knew a vaccine would work and it was a few months away that would be one thing but we don’t. Don’t have the answers or an opinion whether we should or shouldn’t play those are tough choices today, just believe it won’t matter which way we go.
The risk of COVID for anyone under 65 is minimal. If you get COVID, this is your risk of death (using the serology test data):
Age Risk
0-4 1 in 1,171810
5-14 1 in 3,579,551
15-24 1 in 218,399
25-44 1 in 34,354
45-64 1 in 3,478
65-74 1 in 887
75-90 1 in 186
90+ 1 in 55
This is not much different from a normal flu season and these numbers reflect almost 50% of deaths from nursing care facilities.
We cannot stop society from functioning based on these numbers. Take precautions if you are older or have contact with older family members. But do not shut down society for risk for young people that is less than driving to work.
Because while football is undoubtedly an important part of the Clemson experience, it’s but a small part of the University’s mission as a whole. Just as the 18-21yo players who “aren’t affected by Covid” are a small part of the overall football program. The primary focus at Clemson is going to be on how to conduct school for students, including the football players - because, and especially.... as unpaid, amateur student-athletes they aren’t commodities that can be ordered into an isolated bubble like in the NFL.
College football is simply not that important in the larger scheme of things. It’s probably not even the largest budget risk at this point.
I definitely want football this season but I’ll live if it doesn’t happen. That said, there is one thing I’ve learned in my years is that there is always a cause and effect. We need to consider what kind of impact playing and not playing will have on our society and not just the spread of this virus. I think we all know the potential cons of playing that might come about from COVID but what if they don’t play?
Obviously the pros would be controlling the spread and minimizing deaths, which is a biggie, but what about the cons?
I have heard from an AD(Sunbelt) that sits on a corona conference committee that they will have to eliminate almost all nonprofit sports. He said even major schools such as UNC, NC State, Syr, etc will have to do this. Imagine the jobs and scholarships lost from doing this. Imagine all of the teenage athletes across the country that won’t have a coach to mentor them and develop them into hopefully responsible adults. Think of all the free time they’ll have on their hands to do God knows what and potentially go down the wrong path.
I’m not saying we should play but we are talking about a major alteration in the way we live our lives if they don’t play. I’m of the opinion that it will come with some seriously negative affects on many people and not just athletes. The billion dollar question is what’s worse? Just look at how things have been going since we shutdown. Our country is as divided, corrupt, senseless violence, rioting, verbal abuse, etc that I can remember in quite some time. Is it going to keep getting worse if we don’t get somewhat back to what we’re used to doing?
Obviously the pros would be controlling the spread and minimizing deaths, which is a biggie, but what about the cons?
I have heard from an AD(Sunbelt) that sits on a corona conference committee that they will have to eliminate almost all nonprofit sports. He said even major schools such as UNC, NC State, Syr, etc will have to do this. Imagine the jobs and scholarships lost from doing this. Imagine all of the teenage athletes across the country that won’t have a coach to mentor them and develop them into hopefully responsible adults. Think of all the free time they’ll have on their hands to do God knows what and potentially go down the wrong path.
I’m not saying we should play but we are talking about a major alteration in the way we live our lives if they don’t play. I’m of the opinion that it will come with some seriously negative affects on many people and not just athletes. The billion dollar question is what’s worse? Just look at how things have been going since we shutdown. Our country is as divided, corrupt, senseless violence, rioting, verbal abuse, etc that I can remember in quite some time. Is it going to keep getting worse if we don’t get somewhat back to what we’re used to doing?
They may choose to play football. What will be interesting is fans’ reactions to potentially having a fair number of players sitting for 2 weeks at a time over the course of the season should they contract the virus. Maybe it won’t be that big of a deal. Maybe people won’t care if a team takes a loss or two due to the best players were sitting because at least the university’s athletic coffers were filled. Who knows?
@nashvegastiger, afternoon sir. First let me again thank you for being such a big part of the site and for engaging with subscribers. Larry has spoken with a lot of people on campus and in fact dropped me a note Friday morning. I have to say, Larry has been killing it this spring. I commend him for being so active here on the board. What subscribers think has always been important to both Paul and Larry. I assure you. They know these discussions here on the board are very important. So I can't thank them enough.
My view: Here on June 21, there appear to be more questions than answers. And that's okay. I believe it is okay because no one is under any pressure to make a decision about the season here on June 21.
I do believe that athletics directors, presidents and conference commissioners (who want those television dollars) will soon get to a point where they will have to settle on a range of scenarios. I'll say it that way. And whatever scenario appears to be realistic is what they'll run with when that drop-dead date arrives. You're not going to have a lot of presidents, ADs and conference commissioners around the country sitting in a room looking for ways to not have football. I think overwhelmingly most want to have football this fall one way or another.
My personal feeling is that it behooves all involved to do everything possible to have a football season. If it can be done, let's do it. We need to do it.
I would also add that recruiting goes on. That's not stopping and that alone keeps us plenty busy. Feature material continues. That's what we've built our content plan around over the last three months due to the shortened spring practice, a lack of a (true) spring evaluation period and no Swinney Camp.
On another note, rarely have I commented on other news services or members of the media, but to some of your earlier points, there are a number of people in the regional/national media sector who appear to be hoping rather than reporting. I think that's a fair observation. Dan "Outraged" Wolken, who I personally feel is a first-rate clown, has to rank at or near the top of that group.
I’m not saying your data is wrong. I’m saying likelihood of death is but one of several outcomes that colleges have to consider and they will be MUCH more cautious than you with regard to their fiduciary responsibility to the players and their families.
Also, what happens if TL, Pummachan and DJU all test positive the week before the South Carolina game? Still wanna play the season with that scenario?
Did you see my original post?
More people involved than players.
Some kids have and could have underlying conditions.
This is just my opinion.
You know the colleges are considering this as well as their insurance carriers. That's my point. Not saying I'm right or wrong. My opinion
IMO, it might start but won't finish. Unless the Lord miraculously raises his hand and stops this, COVID will continue until a vaccine is available. One thing I thought about is outbreaks happening during the season among teams. What if 10-15 of our starters or second teamers contract CV and can't play for two weeks? Losing to a team that is clearly inferior to us could happen if none of their players are sick. Taking this further, how meaningful is the national championship because of occurrences like this? I've been going to games for 60 years, but I ain't going this fall unless attendance is drastically limited....but I am an old guy, so what do IWill there be college football? A new flurry of pessimism has arrived
By: Pete Thamel - Yahoo! Sports
In the wake of the Clemson’s football team’s 23 positive COVID-19 cases becoming public on Friday, a rip current of uncertainty is rippling through college athletics.
Around the country, the fear among administrators of not playing football in the fall – or having a season rife with interruptions and canceled games – has emerged stronger than at any point in the last month.
One industry source summed up the tenor as one of “overall discouragement.” Another college athletics industry source told Yahoo Sports there’s been “more pessimism the last few days than in weeks.” The source added that the negative feelings have transcended athletics, as college presidents are again concerned about the prospect of in-person classes being held.
With college athletes having been allowed to return to campus for voluntary workouts for nearly three weeks, the real-time complications of testing, tracing and quarantining athletes have been exponentially more complex than many expected. The chain reaction of positive tests and quarantining those they’ve been in contact with for 14 days has put in context how daunting it will be to eventually workout, practice and play games.
The past few weeks have reaffirmed the lack of a consistent national plan, the economic disparities for medical equipment among the FBS schools and the amount of overall difficulties in executing a season.
“I’m way less convinced we will play [football] than I was a few weeks ago,” one athletic director told Yahoo Sports.
One FBS coach summed up his uneasiness with the risks and complications this way: “I think there will be people who’ll be playing football. I just don’t know for how long or how much.”
The last 72 hours has seen the 23 positive tests at Clemson, 13 positive tests at Texas and Kansas State pausing voluntary workouts for 14 days after 14 positive tests. The University of Houston also paused voluntary training last week after six positive tests when the school didn’t test athletes upon return.
Multiple sources stressed to Yahoo Sports that while Clemson’s numbers are an anomaly in what has been reported, it isn’t the only school with both large outbreaks of positive tests and even bigger numbers in quarantine. Sports Illustrated reported on Saturday afternoon that at least 30 LSU players have been in quarantine. Many others appear to be in similar situations.
Yahoo Sports reached out to more than 20 athletic directors, coaches and administrators in the aftermath of the Clemson news to gauge what the flurry of positive test numbers mean for the sport’s future.
The responses showed a pall of pessimism cast over the sport and underscored the difficult balance of health concerns, the financial pressures on football being played and the awkward optics of amateurism.
“It’s a Rubik’s Cube of how you’re moving through all this,” Clemson athletic director Dan Radakovich said in a phone interview. “It’s very difficult right now. I almost think it’s part of the process to get us where we need to be.”
College football was always going to be the hardest sport to figure out a way to return. The amateur and academics elements tied to the sport – no matter how much eyes may roll at those notions – meant that a bubble scenario like in pro sports simply couldn’t exist. The locker room and contact elements also mean daily challenges.
Those coaches and administrators that flashed optimism about the season mentioned the inevitability of players catching the virus and schools figuring out ways to work through it. Statistically, there have been few deaths in the 15-24 age bracket from COVID-19. But that doesn’t necessarily limit the risks.
“If we’re going to have this season, we need to get comfortable being uncomfortable,” said another FCS coach. “I think most people in college football came into this eyes wide open, not assuming we’d ever hold the number of positives to zero but do our best to mitigate the spread.”
While there’s risk a player could have an undiagnosed medical condition that’s exacerbated by the virus, there’s still significant risk of exposing the virus to older staff members.
“Until we have medicine that gives people confidence about resuming activities or we get comfortable enough where we don’t flinch every time we see a new case count, it’s going to be hard to play,” said Florida athletic director Scott Stricklin. “It’s like every nerve is exposed on this topic.”
It’s worth noting that some of the factors scaring coaches and administrators when they peek ahead to the season may change and evolve. The quarantine period may shrink from 14 days. The intensity of contact tracing may lessen as knowledge increases. There’s still much to learn about the virus, and in many ways schools are working with a set of evolving facts and rules.
Can things change before teams begin to formally gather in July? Eight hours of conditioning, weight training and film review begin for most schools on July 13. (For those handful of schools playing in Week 0, that date is July 6.) There’s a gradual ramp-up from there, which will morph to more formal practices. As players gather for practice, the risk of spreading the virus among teammates only increases.
Multiple coaches stressed one of the keys to winning this season will be avoiding outbreaks and not having to forfeit games because of an in-season outbreak. Coaches are realizing the risk of large swaths of the roster missing two-week chunks of the season.
“None of us are even practicing right now, and we’re still having to quarantine dudes,” said a third FBS coach. “It’s only the middle of June. Maybe in July we’ll have an answer of what happens during practice. Right now, we don’t have an answer what to do if this happens in fall camp.”
The athletic directors that appear at the biggest disadvantage managing the virus are those at schools that cannot afford consistent and widespread testing.
One Group of Five athletic director said he’s budgeted a half-million dollars for testing. Athletic directors at wealthier schools have committed up to $2 million.
That athletic director said that as of now it’s taking five days for that school’s tests to return. “The whole key for us to have a football season is rapid testing,” he said.
He explained that the ability to test and find the results quickly would help limit quarantine time after contact tracing because they’d have answers more readily available whether players have tested positive or not.
A coach at the Group of Five level said he felt uncomfortable about the optics of amateur players being subjected to the bubble-like conditions that may be needed to have a successful season.
“There are only 10 to 12 programs that can really afford all the testing and medical attention the NFL is giving guys,” the coach said. “These players aren’t independent contractors. They are 17-to 21-year olds with no union representation. No one is fighting for them.”
The most uncomfortable subject for administrators and coaches is the potential death of a player. There are concerns about pre-existing conditions that the virus can exploit and exacerbate. So far around college football, there’s been no positive case that’s publicly known that’s led to a player on a ventilator or gotten seriously ill. But what do administrators do when that image emerges?
With a dizzying flurry of cases the past few days, there’s no reason to think that the numbers will stop or slow. And for those in college athletics, it’s a reminder that they’ll be walking on a high wire in their attempt to execute a season the next six months.
“This is going to be a very bumpy landing,” said a Power Five athletic director. “We haven’t even brought back all our teams. And this is the most controlled setting. There’s no one else on campus.”
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know? Football in the spring would suck but may be a viable solution.
@Larry_Williams...today. Father's Day. What's your take and how would you proceed with CFB? We are talking about the future of a $2B industry and the ability to keep higher learning institution's doors open in the manner they operated prior to the pandemic.
What program does cancelling season hurt the most? I say Clemson. We are primed for another natty and could have two tigers in NY. Could be a magical season like LSU had last year with the natty and Heisman. Losing that opportunity would also sting in recruiting in the classes two -3 years down the road where the benefits of the natty pay off.
on the flip side, what program does a cancellation benefit the most? I say LSU. Coach O is on a recruiting tear right now with the recent natty paying huge dividends in this coming class and lining up potentially their best class ever the following year. With a cancellation, those recruits won’t see what will likely be a 9-3 or 8-4 season from LSU as they assuredly will take a step back this season (they are two years away from being back in playoff discussion IMO). Instead, Coach O will co tiniest to recruit for 1.5 as the defending national champ and they would resume football with a much better team in 2021 than they would in 2020.
on the flip side, what program does a cancellation benefit the most? I say LSU. Coach O is on a recruiting tear right now with the recent natty paying huge dividends in this coming class and lining up potentially their best class ever the following year. With a cancellation, those recruits won’t see what will likely be a 9-3 or 8-4 season from LSU as they assuredly will take a step back this season (they are two years away from being back in playoff discussion IMO). Instead, Coach O will co tiniest to recruit for 1.5 as the defending national champ and they would resume football with a much better team in 2021 than they would in 2020.
Yes sir. I will. I am 51 and have been giving since I was 22. I believe in so much more than the football game with Clemson.
They can keep my ticket money for all I care.
All of my memories growing up were with the family going to games. Clemson itself is a family member to me. To me, it would be like asking a family member for money back.
