⚖️ MURDAUGH MURDERS & TRIAL THREAD ⚖️

[nmerritt11]

You seem to attach a lot of negativity to sitting with your brother in his hour of judgement, when his wrong is exposed.

I am not in favor of letting murder go unpunished. I do believe that people are accountable for their actions. If my brother is going to spend the rest of his life in jail for killing our Mom so be it. But he is still my brother.

It would be painful to sit near your own brother in his darkest moment. It would be painful to admit you and your brother shared so much and yet he did the unthinkable. I do not equate a court trial to a baseball game. I would not plan on a celebration if my brother got away with murder. But I don't think a Mom or Dad, brother or sister, wife or child is showing weakness or condoning anything to sit there and watch a close relative who did wrong be found guilty. When the gavel bangs down and your brother is found guilty, he is still your brother. Don't lie for him. Don't cheat for him. Don't believe him when he lies.

But it is ok to love your brother in spite of his sin.. It is ok to let him know he is still your brother, or your son, or your Dad, or your Mom.

Or so I think.

Yeah you can think that but I am not taking all day, everyday out of my life, away from my job and my family to sit there and support him or anyone in my family that has gone above and beyond to manipulate, lie, and refuse to acknowledge it.

That’s open support of their situation. I’d let them lay in the bed they made and hope they publicly acknowledged their mistake

Sorry…but even if I was still supporting on Friday…once I heard the GM report I wouldn’t be wasting my days in court

 

[OrangeTigerTower]

Yeah you can think that but I am not taking all day, everyday out of my life, away from my job and my family to sit there and support him or anyone in my family that has gone above and beyond to manipulate, lie, and refuse to acknowledge it.

That’s open support of their situation. I’d let them lay in the bed they made and hope they publicly acknowledged their mistake

Sorry…but even if I was still supporting on Friday…once I heard the GM report I wouldn’t be wasting my days in court

Different strokes for different folks.
I’ve walked those shoes.
Horrible inexcusable actions …but love for the man beneath them. Even when I couldn’t forgive I had love . None the less.
Everyone is entitled to their own reaction.

Jesus said “father forgive them they know not what they do” - about the men that literally killed him. That’s the model I’m supposed to follow.

Frankly - and Nick, I like ya, but your refernxes to “my life, my job” clinically trend pretty close to the narcissism that doomed AM. In that moment you don’t matter. Don’t make it about you. It’s about the other party.

 

[jeffcoat]

You seem to attach a lot of negativity to sitting with your brother in his hour of judgement, when his wrong is exposed.

I am not in favor of letting murder go unpunished. I do believe that people are accountable for their actions. If my brother is going to spend the rest of his life in jail for killing our Mom so be it. But he is still my brother.

It would be painful to sit near your own brother in his darkest moment. It would be painful to admit you and your brother shared so much and yet he did the unthinkable. I do not equate a court trial to a baseball game. I would not plan on a celebration if my brother got away with murder. But I don't think a Mom or Dad, brother or sister, wife or child is showing weakness or condoning anything to sit there and watch a close relative who did wrong be found guilty. When the gavel bangs down and your brother is found guilty, he is still your brother. Don't lie for him. Don't cheat for him. Don't believe him when he lies.

But it is ok to love your brother in spite of his sin.. It is ok to let him know he is still your brother, or your son, or your Dad, or your Mom.

Or so I think.

Very well said Tom.

 

[nmerritt11]

Different strokes for different folks.
I’ve walked those shoes.
Horrible inexcusable actions …but love for the man beneath them. Even when I couldn’t forgive I had love . None the less.
Everyone is entitled to their own reaction.

Jesus said “father forgive them they know not what they do” - about the men that literally killed him. That’s the model I’m supposed to follow.

Frankly - and Nick, I like ya, but your refernxes to “my life, my job” clinically trend pretty close to the narcissism that doomed AM. In that moment you don’t matter. Don’t make it about you. It’s about the other party.

I never said I wouldn’t have love…I said I couldn’t support the lies and sit behind him in court day in an that he seems to have very little guilt.

And now you’re trying to label me as trending close to narcissist? That’s a pretty strong accusation. Pretty harsh judgement based on the fact I’d have a hard time sitting in a court room supporting someone that seems to have murdered two family members every single day

“My life” incorporates the things around me that are most dear to me.

You can love someone and not agree with their actions and not support their decisions. You can love someone while also being angry with them. You can love someone and hope they find the right path and repent their sins and ask for forgiveness

Loving doesn’t mean always supporting

 

[tradams555]

We're just peeling the onion all the way to middle this morning, aren't we?

 

[kell9941]

i think his lawyers said 'one week'

That means it’ll be at least two.

 

[santee]

They can claim they happened later but does that even help? He claimed he got to kennels, found them, checked their pulse, attempted to roll Maggie over and he was there for all of 17 seconds before calling 9-1-1 with new data. That would be physically impossible

Also…impossible to have zero blood on him if he did

Also…where did his clothes from earlier go!

Also…why did he slow down and speed up exactly where Maggie’s phone was dropped

Also…why did he park near the woods at his moms and not in parking are and why was he in and out when he was supposed to be there checking on her

What about the text from Paul telling him Maggie had found drugs in his bag and they needed to talk when he got there

Literally not one thing matches what AM said

The defense has a Mt Everest uphill climb on this one of I am a juror

Not sure why everyone questions the clothes. They are long gone. He had weeks to dispose of them

 

[nmerritt11]

Not sure why everyone questions the clothes. They are long gone. He had weeks to dispose of them

Not questioning them just ststing the fact that they are long gone is part of the evidence against him. Why change and why did they disappear

 

[gooddogjudge]

Not questioning them just ststing the fact that they are long gone is part of the evidence against him. Why change and why did they disappear

Errybody needs some new threads now and again

 

[nmerritt11]

Errybody needs some new threads now and again

Especially when you commit murder in old ones

 

[ClemsonGentleman]

The changing clothes can be easily explained. He was riding around the farm looking at crops/trees in June. He was hot and sweaty and wanted to change into something more comfortable - shorts and a T-shirt.

What they can't explain though is what happened to those clothes and shoes.

 

[nmerritt11]

The changing clothes can be easily explained. He was riding around the farm looking at crops/trees in June. He was hot and sweaty and wanted to change into something more comfortable - shorts and a T-shirt.

What they can't explain though is what happened to those clothes and shoes.

Yeah I get that but why was he soaking wet in sweat and the clothes were dry like he had just changed

 

[88MechEng]

The changing clothes can be easily explained. He was riding around the farm looking at crops/trees in June. He was hot and sweaty and wanted to change into something more comfortable - shorts and a T-shirt.

What they can't explain though is what happened to those clothes and shoes.

This. Can’t understand why people are mystified by the clothes change. Seems natural if he was riding around the farm. The pants were accounted for by the housekeeper. However the shirt and shoes were never seen again. That’s the suspicious thing.

 

[santee]

Not questioning them just ststing the fact that they are long gone is part of the evidence against him. Why change and why did they disappear

Ok… agree

 

[Clemblack]

This. Can’t understand why people are mystified by the clothes change. Seems natural if he was riding around the farm. The pants were accounted for by the housekeeper. However the shirt and shoes were never seen again. That’s the suspicious thing.

I don't think people are mystified by the clothes change. But it's interesting to watch Alex's reaction when Owen confronts him on 8/11 about the tree video. Alex is completely caught off guard, asks Owen what time the video was taken, then says something like "well, I must have changed." Not particularly damning, but interesting. You can tell the wheels are turning in his head during this exchange with Owen.

It's pretty fascinating to me that Alex had zero clue that the tree video or kennel video existed until Owen drops those bombs on him on 8/11.

 

[eubyscott]

I don't think people are mystified by the clothes change. But it's interesting to watch Alex's reaction when Owen confronts him on 8/11 about the tree video. Alex is completely caught off guard, asks Owen what time the video was taken, then says something like "well, I must have changed." Not particularly damning, but interesting. You can tell the wheels are turning in his head during this exchange with Owen.

It's pretty fascinating to me that Alex had zero clue that the tree video or kennel video existed until Owen drops those bombs on him on 8/11.

Yeah you have to think, up until that point, he thought his “alibi” was pretty solid. One video blew up his alibi, the other shown he was wearing other clothes than when LE arrived and never to be seen again.

 

[Tiger Guru]

Yeah you have to think, up until that point, he thought his “alibi” was pretty solid. One video blew up his alibi, the other shown he was wearing other clothes than when LE arrived and never to be seen again.

Well, if it weren't for that video, I don't think they would have anything at all. Had he simply said "I swung by the kennels to tell them I was going to momma's before I left and chatted with them for a bit" I don't know what would have happened in regard to evidence.

Seems weird they doubled down on "never being there".

 

[LUV DEM TIGERS]

You knew it was coming. On Wednesday Netflix has the Murdaugh series starting.

 

[BarnwellTiger]

You knew it was coming. On Wednesday Netflix has the Murdaugh series starting.

Last night cnn had a 3 hour summary of the Murdaugh history of power, influence and questionable dealings. Much had been shown in previous works by Dateline/ 20/20 type but there was some additional info presented. Some of their insinuations and suspicions expressed have since been debunked by the trial but overall gave a good perspective.
If any of the jurors watched it I don't think it would bode well for AM.

 

[PawJourney]

I don't think people are mystified by the clothes change. But it's interesting to watch Alex's reaction when Owen confronts him on 8/11 about the tree video. Alex is completely caught off guard, asks Owen what time the video was taken, then says something like "well, I must have changed." Not particularly damning, but interesting. You can tell the wheels are turning in his head during this exchange with Owen.

It's pretty fascinating to me that Alex had zero clue that the tree video or kennel video existed until Owen drops those bombs on him on 8/11.

Read on Reddit that Duffy Stone recused himself around time of that interview. Because of Paul's videos from the grave and AM's continued insistance he wasn't at the kennels and had an ironclad alibi, AM seemed to be only a person of interest. But for those videos, I don't know if the State has a case. This would be solely a financial crime thread.

Other than ego, if you're going to spend your life behind bars does it really matter why the State sends you to jail (aka AL Capone)? Kind of a big ego to have all of your junk trotted out in the open and be able to stride into court the way he does. I'd rather plea out and try to save my soul for God's judgment.

 

[stuk1]

Other than ego, if you're going to spend your life behind bars does it really matter why the State sends you to jail (aka AL Capone)?

I’d have to imagine there is a very big difference in life behind bars for someone convicted of financial crimes vs someone who murdered their wife & child.

 

[other1]

Last night cnn had a 3 hour summary of the Murdaugh history of power, influence and questionable dealings. Much had been shown in previous works by Dateline/ 20/20 type but there was some additional info presented. Some of their insinuations and suspicions expressed have since been debunked by the trial but overall gave a good perspective.
If any of the jurors watched it I don't think it would bode well for AM.

The jurors not being sequestered leave them open to a whole lot of outside influence.

 

[yemassee]

Read on Reddit that Duffy Stone recused himself around time of that interview. Because of Paul's videos from the grave and AM's continued insistance he wasn't at the kennels and had an ironclad alibi, AM seemed to be only a person of interest. But for those videos, I don't know if the State has a case. This would be solely a financial crime thread.

Other than ego, if you're going to spend your life behind bars does it really matter why the State sends you to jail (aka AL Capone)? Kind of a big ego to have all of your junk trotted out in the open and be able to stride into court the way he does. I'd rather plea out and try to save my soul for God's judgment.

If they had not been able to prove he was at the kennels at 8:44, then his alibi would have worked. My guess is they will try to say the time stamp on that video was not accurate.

 

[PawJourney]

I’d have to imagine there is a very big difference in life behind bars for someone convicted of financial crimes vs someone who murdered their wife & child.

Good point.

 

[Clemblack]

Read on Reddit that Duffy Stone recused himself around time of that interview. Because of Paul's videos from the grave and AM's continued insistance he wasn't at the kennels and had an ironclad alibi, AM seemed to be only a person of interest. But for those videos, I don't know if the State has a case. This would be solely a financial crime thread.

Other than ego, if you're going to spend your life behind bars does it really matter why the State sends you to jail (aka AL Capone)? Kind of a big ego to have all of your junk trotted out in the open and be able to stride into court the way he does. I'd rather plea out and try to save my soul for God's judgment.

He recused himself that same day.

 

[Clemblack]

If they had not been able to prove he was at the kennels at 8:44, then his alibi would have worked. My guess is they will try to say the time stamp on that video was not accurate.

Without that video, charges never come IMO. I also think that if Rogan Gibson had answered any of Alex's 5 calls to him, no charges are filed. This is because Rogan would have given Alex the info he desperately wanted - what exactly Rogan knew, if anything, about Alex's whereabouts. If Alex reaches Rogan, he never tells the big lie to LE.

I don't think the defense is going to argue the time stamp. I think they will argue time of death could have been after 9:06 (when Alex left Moselle), and they will give some excuse as to why Alex lied about being there at 8:44 (he was scared of becoming a suspect).

 

[Flopeye Mike]

A good example of what may be coming from the defense.

‎The Murdaugh Family Murders: Impact of Influence: 105: Criminal Defense Attorney, Sara Azari, Gives Her Take on Apple Podcasts

‎Show The Murdaugh Family Murders: Impact of Influence, Ep 105: Criminal Defense Attorney, Sara Azari, Gives Her Take - Feb 19, 2023

podcasts.apple.com

 

[GrayCourtStomp]

Well we knew it was inevitable, but come Wednesday Netflix enters the chat.

 

[88MechEng]

Read on Reddit that Duffy Stone recused himself around time of that interview. Because of Paul's videos from the grave and AM's continued insistance he wasn't at the kennels and had an ironclad alibi, AM seemed to be only a person of interest. But for those videos, I don't know if the State has a case. This would be solely a financial crime thread.

Other than ego, if you're going to spend your life behind bars does it really matter why the State sends you to jail (aka AL Capone)? Kind of a big ego to have all of your junk trotted out in the open and be able to stride into court the way he does. I'd rather plea out and try to save my soul for God's judgment.

I think at the time of the 3rd SLED interview they only had comments from Rogan that he heard Alex's voice in the background while on the phone with Paul at the kennel. The video didn't come out until they broke the code on Paul's phone nearly a year after the murders and I agree that made all of the difference.

 

[PawJourney]

Without that video, charges never come IMO. I also think that if Rogan Gibson had answered any of Alex's 5 calls to him, no charges are filed. This is because Rogan would have given Alex the info he desperately wanted - what exactly Rogan knew, if anything, about Alex's whereabouts. If Alex reaches Rogan, he never tells the big lie to LE.

I don't think the defense is going to argue the time stamp. I think they will argue time of death could have been after 9:06 (when Alex left Moselle), and they will give some excuse as to why Alex lied about being there at 8:44 (he was scared of becoming a suspect).

I think defense has to argue murders occurred after Alex was en route to his Mom's. Armpit-Temperature-Time-Of-Death Coroner helps that theory out.

 

[stickM]

I think the phone/GM data shows that Maggie's phone orientation is moving at the roadside spot where found at the exact time Alex drives past headed for Almeda. Those location data points with coinciding times should discount any theory that murders occurred after Alex left.

 

[tigerbean]

giddy-up! it’s court day 21!

 

[syarbor]

I think defense has to argue murders occurred after Alex was en route to his Mom's. Armpit-Temperature-Time-Of-Death Coroner helps that theory out.

Agree, they'll definitely try to argue the time of death.

I read that the coroner didn't have a thermometer and that the armpit temperature was by 'feel' and not an actual measurement. The time of death estimate was a 2-hr window from 8-10 pm with the official time splitting that difference listed as 9pm. He qualified it as a rough estimate.

Based on that testimony, it can't be used as stand alone data imo, and it can't be given that more weight than the cell phone data. I see it as more of confirmatory evidence that the cell phones likely tell the story of time of death.

The coroner testimony certainly doesn't give me reasonable doubt ( based on other evidence previously presented) that the time of death was likely after AM left the property. Maybe other testimony will, but they didn't move the needle for me.

 

[OrangeTigerTower]

I think the phone/GM data shows that Maggie's phone orientation is moving at the roadside spot where found at the exact time Alex drives past headed for Almeda. Those location data points with coinciding times should discount any theory that murders occurred after Alex left.

yeah but him having her phone doesn't equal he killed her
They had a fight, he accused her of talking to another dude. Took her phone. Threw it out the window in a rage. Mawhile back at the ranch the invisible man slipped from the shadows committed the murders and disappeared into the darkness,

 

[TigerSlalom]

Maybe I missed it along the way, but don't they have pretty accurate movement data on Alex's phone? Can't they see where it was on the property?

If so, shouldn't they have the same for Paul and Maggie's phone? So beyond just saying the phone's locked at XX:XX pm, shouldn't they be able to say that both phones stopped moving at a certain time. Considering both phones stop moving within minutes of each other, and Alex's phone still on the property, this should be a slam dunk case?

 

[CU_4734]

I can’t believe he’s gonna let Buster testify. Wonder how tough the state will be…

 

[PawJourney]

Agree, they'll definitely try to argue the time of death.

I read that the coroner didn't have a thermometer and that the armpit temperature was by 'feel' and not an actual measurement. The time of death estimate was a 2-hr window from 8-10 pm with the official time splitting that difference listed as 9pm. He qualified it as a rough estimate.

Based on that testimony, it can't be used as stand alone data imo, and it can't be given that more weight than the cell phone data. I see it as more of confirmatory evidence that the cell phones likely tell the story of time of death.

The coroner testimony certainly doesn't give me reasonable doubt ( based on other evidence previously presented) that the time of death was likely after AM left the property. Maybe other testimony will, but they didn't move the needle for me.

The weight of evidence is a determination by each juror and collectively the jury. By itself, the cellphone evidence v. death certificate time of death (State is responsible for that info on that official record) would not be enough to remove reasonable doubt for me.....until I heard AM's statements about not being at the kennels as weighed against Paul's Snapchat videos (proving he was) AND Alex's attempts to line up Blanca and Muschelle's testimony (trying to set his alibi). Too much lines up to prove he was there and the reason he's lying about it is to cover his crimes.

The trial is half over, so the Defense gets its chance to re-weight the evidence. Like the Superbowl, the second half can be a game changer. Guess we'll all see in real time.

 

[Pomaria Tiger]

Maybe I missed it along the way, but don't they have pretty accurate movement data on Alex's phone? Can't they see where it was on the property?

If so, shouldn't they have the same for Paul and Maggie's phone? So beyond just saying the phone's locked at XX:XX pm, shouldn't they be able to say that both phones stopped moving at a certain time. Considering both phones stop moving within minutes of each other, and Alex's phone still on the property, this should be a slam dunk case?

I could be wrong, but I think it has been talked about that AM's phone was at the house.

 

[VaTiger85]

If this goes anything like seemingly every other case I’ve ever had an interest in (especially if it’s a TV show), I end up believing the last person that talks lol.

I wouldn’t discount at all the ability for the defense to create doubt.

 

[Woody1405]

Can someone even imagine a scenario in which a person or persons other than AM committed the murders. What kind of criminal comes to the property to kill a mother and son and doesn't bring his own weapons and, instead, assumes he will find suitable weapons at the property? I do think there is a reasonable possibility that a second person assisted AM with the crime. In other words I don't believe beyond a reasonable doubt that AM acted alone. But that does not absolve him of guilt for the killings.