⚖️ MURDAUGH MURDERS & TRIAL THREAD ⚖️

[Dmk]

Yep, after only one expert they blew massive holes in timing, theory, just about anything the prosecution was trying.

Not sure how anyone doesn’t have reasonable doubt, I’m actually leaning towards acquittal now, not even hung jury.

AM has as good of lawyers as money can buy. I’m waiting on how they’re going to explain how AM’s voice was heard on that recording just minutes before PM and Maggie’s phone’s went silent forever. He would have literally have had to scurry immediately up to the house, (after the dog recording was made), and not see the killer/s , because he was the only one of the 3 there at that time that wasn’t killed.

 

[FallsChurchTiger]

AM has as good of lawyers as money can buy. I’m waiting on how they’re going to explain how AM’s voice was heard on that recording just minutes before PM and Maggie’s phone’s went silent forever. He would have literally have had to scurry immediately up to the house, (after the dog recording was made), and not see the killer/s , because he was the only one of the 3 there at that time that wasn’t killed.

Griffin is good but honestly there are better criminal defense lawyers in the state of SC than the Harpo/Griffin combo in my opinion and certainly nationally.

 

[WCTiger]

Question for the lawyers. If Alex does not take the stand, can the prosecution get away with, in the closing arguments, saying something along the lines of “isn’t it interesting that he didn’t take the stand to defend himself? Got to ask yourself why. Wouldn’t you have wanted to get up here, if you were in his position and look the jury in the eye and tell them you didn’t do it?”

 

[Cubigfoot]

I just do not see how the defense is going to refute the GM data from Alex's Suburban.
Maybe the Defense raised some reasonable doubt today but still have time left for one of the sides to screw up lol.

I do not know why the lead prosecutor did not cross the first Defense expert witness as @tigerbean mentioned in the thread earlier.

 

[TigerTC]

Question for the lawyers. If Alex does not take the stand, can the prosecution get away with, in the closing arguments, saying something along the lines of “isn’t it interesting that he didn’t take the stand to defend himself? Got to ask yourself why. Wouldn’t you have wanted to get up here, if you were in his position and look the jury in the eye and tell them you didn’t do it?”

No. That is grounds for a mistrial.

You cannot comment on someone’s Constitutional right not to testify.

 

[sloanMB]

Haven’t been able to watch hardly any live coverage, but Waters should be doing everything. This ain’t one to leave to training or chance.

 

[CU_4734]

I actually thought the Sutton guy came across with complete tunnel vision without any regard for variables. A 5’2 shooter?! GTFO

 

[sloanMB]

I actually thought the Sutton guy came across with complete tunnel vision without any regard for variables. A 5’2 shooter?! GTFO

So the defense claims the shooter was either 10 years old, a Hispanic fella, or a little ol church lady.

 

[PawJourney]

Paul hasn't said a whole lot

I don't know. His videos spoke from the grave.

 

[dbjork6317]

No. That is grounds for a mistrial.

You cannot comment on someone’s Constitutional right not to testify.

Almost caused a mistrial in the Rittenhouse trial when the state brought up that Rittenhouse didn’t make statements when he was arrested.

 

[purenonsense]

yeah but him having her phone doesn't equal he killed her
They had a fight, he accused her of talking to another dude. Took her phone. Threw it out the window in a rage. Mawhile back at the ranch the invisible man slipped from the shadows committed the murders and disappeared into the darkness,

if that is what happened then he would not have had to lie about everything from top to bottom

 

[RaleighTiger]

Saw a tweet about Harpo pointing the gun at the prosecution table and quipped "tempting." Scumbag.

 

[purenonsense]

Question for the lawyers. If Alex does not take the stand, can the prosecution get away with, in the closing arguments, saying something along the lines of “isn’t it interesting that he didn’t take the stand to defend himself? Got to ask yourself why. Wouldn’t you have wanted to get up here, if you were in his position and look the jury in the eye and tell them you didn’t do it?”

no. Cannot comment on the constitutional right not to testify.

 

[CLEMSON96JDH]

Saw a tweet about Harpo pointing the gun at the defense table and quipped "tempting." Scumbag.

Prosecution

 

[tigerridge]

He's triangulating off of the cartridge casings and the holes.

Move the casings or adapt the ejection port and you could back up how far?

The shooter and body at the same spot doesn't seem right as someone above stated.

They know she was shot at some distance, correct?

The body wasn't there when the shots were taken...Both shots missed...

 

[castlesl]

Yep, after only one expert they blew massive holes in timing, theory, just about anything the prosecution was trying.

Not sure how anyone doesn’t have reasonable doubt, I’m actually leaning towards acquittal now, not even hung jury.

I have zero doubts. AM killed them both and there just isn’t any plausible way that didn’t happen.

 

[Clemblack]

I just don't have the time to follow a lot of this but had it on in the office this afternoon when I got home. Mike Sutton came off as quite credible and believable.

Did you watch him under cross? I thought today was a win for the prosecution.

 

[Clemblack]

Yep, after only one expert they blew massive holes in timing, theory, just about anything the prosecution was trying.

Not sure how anyone doesn’t have reasonable doubt, I’m actually leaning towards acquittal now, not even hung jury.

People don't have reasonable doubt because of what the evidence shows, which includes but is not limited to:

- Alex luring them to Moselle
- Alex lying many times, and during three separate interviews with LE, about being at the kennels at 8:45
- Alex lying about being at the kennels at 8:45 even after being told by LE about the snapchat video
- Alex lying about time spent at mom's house
- Maggie being shot with 300 blackout while 2 are missing from family
- Blackout casings around Maggie match ones found near house and at shooting shed
-Alex called "9111" 17 seconds after arriving at kennels, yet says he attempted to roll Paul over, Paul's phone "popped out," Alex picked up phone then put it on Paul's butt, checked Paul's pulse, then went to Maggie to check her pulse.
-Maggie phone backlight goes out just as Alex suburban passes the location at which phone was found
- Alex phone was not on his person from 8:09 to 9:02, yet he had just been notified that day his father was dying.


That "expert" blew a hole in nothing. A 5'2" shooter? Give me a break. Jury should be insulted.

 

[RaleighTiger]

Prosecution

Oops. Meant prosecution. Fixed.

 

[gooddogjudge]

I just don't have the time to follow a lot of this but had it on in the office this afternoon when I got home. Mike Sutton came off as quite credible and believable.

He was paid very well to sound credible and believable!

 

[santee]

He was paid very well to sound credible and believable!

Nobody would hire that guy to legitimately investigate a crime scene . He is not qualified or properly trained. If defense could have gotten a more reputable guy then they would have

 

[ClemsonFatty]

I don't think people are mystified by the clothes change. But it's interesting to watch Alex's reaction when Owen confronts him on 8/11 about the tree video. Alex is completely caught off guard, asks Owen what time the video was taken, then says something like "well, I must have changed." Not particularly damning, but interesting. You can tell the wheels are turning in his head during this exchange with Owen.

It's pretty fascinating to me that Alex had zero clue that the tree video or kennel video existed until Owen drops those bombs on him on 8/11.

Is this video online to watch or did y’all just see it while watching the trial?

 

[clemsongolfer2]

Agree 100% for those that dont know. In your own words, what was he trying to accomplish?

To place doubt in the jury’s mind that the prosecutions theory doesn’t add up. Also that the prosecution might be grasping at straws. It was a very calculated retweet.

 

[poates6]

People don't have reasonable doubt because of what the evidence shows, which includes but is not limited to:

- Alex luring them to Moselle
- Alex lying many times, and during three separate interviews with LE, about being at the kennels at 8:45
- Alex lying about being at the kennels at 8:45 even after being told by LE about the snapchat video
- Alex lying about time spent at mom's house
- Maggie being shot with 300 blackout while 2 are missing from family
- Blackout casings around Maggie match ones found near house and at shooting shed
-Alex called "9111" 17 seconds after arriving at kennels, yet says he attempted to roll Paul over, Paul's phone "popped out," Alex picked up phone then put it on Paul's butt, checked Paul's pulse, then went to Maggie to check her pulse.
-Maggie phone backlight goes out just as Alex suburban passes the location at which phone was found
- Alex phone was not on his person from 8:09 to 9:02, yet he had just been notified that day his father was dying.


That "expert" blew a hole in nothing. A 5'2" shooter? Give me a break. Jury should be insulted.

I hear what you are saying, but a lot of your evidence points to he could have done it, not he did it.

The phone backlight going out isn’t as good a piece of evidence as you give it credit for.

I’ve called people before with one hand while doing lots of other things with my other hand.

The lying is bad, but this guy has been shown to be a pathological liar. I’m willing to bet he lies as much as tells the truth. That still doesn’t mean he pulled a trigger. That is what is being put on trial here.

Did he pull the trigger? The state has the burden to prove he did and they didn’t. On top of that the first day the defense calls witnesses they pop holes all over the circumstantial evidence the state presented.

In our system you are innocent til proven guilty. As a juror I have to start there. The prosecutor has to prove to me beyond reasonable doubt he pulled those triggers. They haven’t done that.

At this point the verdict should be acquittal. Law enforcement could have given the state a much better case than they did, but they failed at investigation in multiple phases in my opinion.

 

[swampaw]

Nobody would hire that guy to legitimately investigate a crime scene . He is not qualified or properly trained. If defense could have gotten a more reputable guy then they would have

Amen. I spent many years in the company of investigators infinitely more qualified than that guy. I’m not even sure the judge should have “qualified” him. Did the prosecution stipulate ? I didn’t see all of it.

 

[CLEMSON96JDH]

I hear what you are saying, but a lot of your evidence points to he could have done it, not he did it.

The phone backlight going out isn’t as good a piece of evidence as you give it credit for.

I’ve called people before with one hand while doing lots of other things with my other hand.

The lying is bad, but this guy has been shown to be a pathological liar. I’m willing to bet he lies as much as tells the truth. That still doesn’t mean he pulled a trigger. That is what is being put on trial here.

Did he pull the trigger? The state has the burden to prove he did and they didn’t. On top of that the first day the defense calls witnesses they pop holes all over the circumstantial evidence the state presented.

In our system you are innocent til proven guilty. As a juror I have to start there. The prosecutor has to prove to me beyond reasonable doubt he pulled those triggers. They haven’t done that.

At this point the verdict should be acquittal. Law enforcement could have given the state a much better case than they did, but they failed at investigation in multiple phases in my opinion.

Ignoring all other facts, you’re saying a person came to commit a murder and didn’t bring a weapon?

I get that we don’t have a video of him firing the gun, but given all the facts, common sense tells you it had to be him.

 

[Cris_Ard]

Did you watch him under cross? I thought today was a win for the prosecution.

Yes. I watched his entire testimony. I think yesterday was a good day for the defense. Harpootlian is going to muddy this thing up as much as possible. He's off to a good start IMO.

 

[RDTiger13]

If the shooter was between 5’2” and 5’4” then I have about 19 football players I’d like to throw out there as suspects.

 

[kell9941]

People don't have reasonable doubt because of what the evidence shows, which includes but is not limited to:

- Alex luring them to Moselle
- Alex lying many times, and during three separate interviews with LE, about being at the kennels at 8:45
- Alex lying about being at the kennels at 8:45 even after being told by LE about the snapchat video
- Alex lying about time spent at mom's house
- Maggie being shot with 300 blackout while 2 are missing from family
- Blackout casings around Maggie match ones found near house and at shooting shed
-Alex called "9111" 17 seconds after arriving at kennels, yet says he attempted to roll Paul over, Paul's phone "popped out," Alex picked up phone then put it on Paul's butt, checked Paul's pulse, then went to Maggie to check her pulse.
-Maggie phone backlight goes out just as Alex suburban passes the location at which phone was found
- Alex phone was not on his person from 8:09 to 9:02, yet he had just been notified that day his father was dying.


That "expert" blew a hole in nothing. A 5'2" shooter? Give me a break. Jury should be insulted.

If all of this wasn’t spot on there would be no reason for all of the lies.

 

[tigerbean]

CAVEAT - watched a lot but may have missed some details——

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder so it only matters if 1 or more jurors were swayed yesterday.

Buster came across as either stupid or numb - Prosecution missed opportunity to discredit him and maybe get him angry

Expert - He did well with what he had to work with - He opined that Math and Science MIGHT call for someone other than AM to be the shooter - NO SHIT - we don’t have video and it is possible the Dali Lama flew in on a freaking carpet and sat on said carpet at the correct angle and shot these people
- Prosecution’s intent was to tear down the science - give them a B+ - BUT spent way too much time on the acoustics when the whole point was the last question - IF SOMEONE WAS AT THE KENNELS WOULD THEY HAVE HEARD THE SHOT- all the other crap is crap - his whole testimony was based on assuming AM at the house which is a lie

-Why did you test the acoustics at the house? (BECAUSE THE DEFENSE ASKED ME TO)

- Did the defense tell you who they thought was in the house?

Did they tell you why it was important?

Did you know that AM was on video at 8:44 at the kennels?

Do you have any knowledge where AM was at time of shootings?

Then everything you testified to today is based on assumption

Prosecutor he was trying to go there but in a roundabout way

******I understand the team aspect of the AG case -very necessary in this case - BUT WATERS HAS TO BE THE VOICE ON CROSS - the underlings can be his substantive help BUT HAS TO BE THE VOICE AND THE FACE OF THE PROSECUTION!!!


also failed to ask correct questions about how much paid

they asked how much he charged - he said 350 an hour - 40-50 hours

did not ask how much company charged when he later testified that other engineers worked on some of the reports.

THEY CHARGED WAY MORE THAN $14-17.5 thousand

make him say the number !!!

then on closing

“the defense paid ________ and for what!?!?!?!? - to get some engineer to say that it’s possible that some 12 year old (I did like that) did the shootings - they had to pay someone to try and engineer reasonable doubt - why? THEY DIDN’T EVEN TELL HIM THAT ALEX WAS AT THE KENNELS - it’s another smokescreen just like AM has been lying from the moment he opened his mouth!”

 

[Ole Tom]

Yep, after only one expert they blew massive holes in timing, theory, just about anything the prosecution was trying.

Not sure how anyone doesn’t have reasonable doubt, I’m actually leaning towards acquittal now, not even hung jury.

I have known a lot of MEs in my life. Most of them claim to be experts about everything. Only thing worse than an ME is a ChemE.

Interesting that this 'expert' has been paid $300-$400/hour to testify for AM and his law firm in law suits involving all sorts of product liability in the past. His business card probably identifies himself as "PROFESSIONAL WITNESS". And his theory is that Paul and Maggie were shot and killed by a midget wielding a shotgun and a 300 Blackout?

 

[kell9941]

I hear what you are saying, but a lot of your evidence points to he could have done it, not he did it.

The phone backlight going out isn’t as good a piece of evidence as you give it credit for.

I’ve called people before with one hand while doing lots of other things with my other hand.

The lying is bad, but this guy has been shown to be a pathological liar. I’m willing to bet he lies as much as tells the truth. That still doesn’t mean he pulled a trigger. That is what is being put on trial here.

Did he pull the trigger? The state has the burden to prove he did and they didn’t. On top of that the first day the defense calls witnesses they pop holes all over the circumstantial evidence the state presented.

In our system you are innocent til proven guilty. As a juror I have to start there. The prosecutor has to prove to me beyond reasonable doubt he pulled those triggers. They haven’t done that.

At this point the verdict should be acquittal. Law enforcement could have given the state a much better case than they did, but they failed at investigation in multiple phases in my opinion.

Not buying your take on the lies and made up, if not totally orchestrated, alibi. You gotta give me alot more than this guy lies all the time. Yeah, when you’re stealing over $8,000,000 from people you’re gonna have to do some lying.

 

[kell9941]

Nobody would hire that guy to legitimately investigate a crime scene . He is not qualified or properly trained. If defense could have gotten a more reputable guy then they would have

Yep, this guy’s thing is accident recreation, not murder crime scene investigations.

 

[Every name taken]

The Ard family now gets a free trip to the Bahama's from Rivals.

Mother in law included

 

[Ole Tom]

If Poot gets a hung jury, he will claim a big victory. If Poot can just come up with a catchy rhyme he will make the Johnny Cochran Hall of Fame.

 

[sloanMB]

CAVEAT - watched a lot but may have missed some details——

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder so it only matters if 1 or more jurors were swayed yesterday.

Buster came across as either stupid or numb - Prosecution missed opportunity to discredit him and maybe get him angry

Expert - He did well with what he had to work with - He opined that Math and Science MIGHT call for someone other than AM to be the shooter - NO SHIT - we don’t have video and it is possible the Dali Lama flew in on a freaking carpet and sat on said carpet at the correct angle and shot these people
- Prosecution’s intent was to tear down the science - give them a B+ - BUT spent way too much time on the acoustics when the whole point was the last question - IF SOMEONE WAS AT THE KENNELS WOULD THEY HAVE HEARD THE SHOT- all the other crap is crap - his whole testimony was based on assuming AM at the house which is a lie

-Why did you test the acoustics at the house? (BECAUSE THE DEFENSE ASKED ME TO)

- Did the defense tell you who they thought was in the house?

Did they tell you why it was important?

Did you know that AM was on video at 8:44 at the kennels?

Do you have any knowledge where AM was at time of shootings?

Then everything you testified to today is based on assumption

Prosecutor he was trying to go there but in a roundabout way

******I understand the team aspect of the AG case -very necessary in this case - BUT WATERS HAS TO BE THE VOICE ON CROSS - the underlings can be his substantive help BUT HAS TO BE THE VOICE AND THE FACE OF THE PROSECUTION!!!


also failed to ask correct questions about how much paid

they asked how much he charged - he said 350 an hour - 40-50 hours

did not ask how much company charged when he later testified that other engineers worked on some of the reports.

THEY CHARGED WAY MORE THAN $14-17.5 thousand

make him say the number !!!

then on closing

“the defense paid ________ and for what!?!?!?!? - to get some engineer to say that it’s possible that some 12 year old (I did like that) did the shootings - they had to pay someone to try and engineer reasonable doubt - why? THEY DIDN’T EVEN TELL HIM THAT ALEX WAS AT THE KENNELS - it’s another smokescreen just like AM has been lying from the moment he opened his mouth!”

Nailed it. I said the same thing, this has to be the Waters Show. They are giving up layups to the defense on the (lack of) cross.

 

[BarnwellTiger]

Nailed it. I said the same thing, this has to be the Waters Show. They are giving up layups to the defense on the (lack of) cross.

Can someone contact Waters and let him know this? You would think he could see it but his actions don't show it.

The cynical part of me thinks that these guys are there for the paycheck - State and Defense. I want to see justice and the people of S.C. deserve it. So do Maggie & Paul and their loved ones.

 

[BarnwellTiger]

Did you watch him under cross? I thought today was a win for the prosecution.

How so in your opinion?

I watched very little. Completely avoided Buster's testimony as it was little more than an attempt to bring some "heart" to an absolutely heartless tragedy, and one not just isolated to 6/7/21.

I listened to about 10-15 minutes of cross w/the engineer that spoke to trajectory and such. I thought the defense attorney tried to double down and looked foolish. Granted I didn't hear his entire cross.

 

[Woody1405]

One of the biggest abuses in trials is that a law firm can hire an expert who will testify any way the law firms wishes. A lot of expert witnesses are whores who carry a briefcase. For enough money they will say anything and its not perjury because its merely their professional opinions.

 

[tigerbean]

Can someone contact Waters and let him know this? You would think he could see it but his actions don't show it.

The cynical part of me thinks that these guys are there for the paycheck - State and Defense. I want to see justice and the people of S.C. deserve it. So do Maggie & Paul and their loved ones.

the state isn’t there for a paycheck

they have a salary - no more or no less

best part of a government job is the benefits

and the knowledge that your paycheck won’t bounce

Waters is a lifer - a lot of the others are trying to get experience