⚖️ MURDAUGH MURDERS & TRIAL THREAD ⚖️
- Thread starter OldMTPTiger
- Start date
Drugs had nothing to do with these murders. Drugs are Alex's excuse to his family and friends for his stealing, and an attempt to gain sympathy. He knows that many people either have personally had, or know people who have had, opioid addiction.
That being high on drugs and/or his financial crimes led to him gunning down his wife and putting his son's brains on the roof at point blank.
I think there is a 0% chance being high on opioids led to the other.
Thanks, gentlemen!
As a husband of 20+ years and a father of two children, I just cannot for the life of me comprehend how someone could bring himself to gun down his wife and son. How does one have the capacity to even do something like that? To even so much as think about it? I then remind myself that for a very long time this world has had its share of agents who exhibit pure evil. Certainly. But ... some of the worst human beings on the planet won't gun down their own wife and son.
I see a lot of pieces here and they seem to point in one direction. Not all of the pieces, but a lot of them. Still ... I wish there were a bit more evidence. That'd make things a bit easier for those evaluating/judging here and I recognize that it's not always that simple. I get it.
I disagree here. Case in point - 5:30 p.m. on 8/21/21 my wife suffered what we soon found out was a heartattack while seated less than 6 feet from me. It seemingly came out of nowhere. In fact I had just asked her if she was ready to go get something to eat. She responded "yes" and I turned toward the door. She called my name in a very weird manner; when I turned towards her she was slumped down on the couch.
My first call was to 911 and immediately after hanging up I called her daughter, my stepdaughter.
Granted it wasn't a grisly murder scene but my instincts immediately were to make that family connection.
Very well stated. I can see all the evidence and lying to any and everyone over money. But putting a shotgun under your own son's chin? That's a different action.
Good question Chris. I'm a little biased because I heard/read so much before the start of the trial. I believe he has motive to keep his financial crimes hidden. However, to me the cell phone video putting him at the scene minutes before they were killed is the nail in the coffin. The cell phone video, gps, & Onstar data is enough for me.
For those of you who haven't seen a map, here is a screenshot of the property with the kennels at the top and the house at the bottom.
I grew up near a hunting club. I had no idea the kennels were that close to the house. And had no clue it was an open field. That’s crazy.For those of you who haven't seen a map, here is a screenshot of the property with the kennels at the top and the house at the bottom.
If the gunshots occurred while Alex was at home, he would have absolutely heard them even with a TV on. It’s louder than you’d expect.
This thread has captured our attention like a 4th Q of USuCk game with Cris contemporaneously giving out penny stock picks and CJ Spiller sitting at a selection table in Lake Butler
Who knows. Maybe Maggie & Paul confiscated his drugs and Alex went down to the kennels to get them back. Paul wouldn't give them back so Alex went out to the golf cart, grabbed the shotgun, and shot Paul in the doorway. Maggie comes running to see WTF was up and Alex grabbed the .300 and shot her.
We probably will never know what exactly happen, but we know only 3 people were there and 2 are dead.
I'm so sorry. I hope she is OK now.
I really don’t have the passion for the case you do. So I’m not really inclined to get into debating the minutia.
We will go back and forth for ever and never agree and yet despite that both agree that he is guilty - so to what end?
But to make an example of a point. In your quoted post you mentioned the noise of an “AR”…a 556,223,308 and 300BO All have trend soupy different sound levels . Then load charge will vary greatly. Subsonic loads can drop into the double digit db. Then we get into the conversation of acoustic duration.
I’ll say this, I love in a neighborhood switch a busy body Neighbor who feeds squirrels that I hate because they destroy my property and eat all the feed from my wife’s bird feeders. I’ve killed more than a dozen squirrels using subsonic 22lr rounds and the neighbor has never heard. Despite our homes being 30 yards apart. So I don’t like the absolutism of “he would have definitely heard” or “definitely not heard”
Then you say “they showed one of the 300bo” and I don’t think it was silenced. Well if it wasn’t the murder weapon it doesn’t matter. And no the defense wouldn’t say “he had an illegal silencer” that’s fed ATF charges and …
I also am not as confident in the time of death as so many others. The whole timeline gets called into question if the TOD is wrong. And let’s not forget the state autopsy has the TOD over an hour after the phone goes dark. But we should dismiss that because the state says they weren’t very accurate or precise there. So we ignore their “lie” and focus on AM’s lies.
Again I think AM is guilty. I just think the crime scene investigators did a horribly sloppy job and and the prosecution has done an equally poor job in trial.
I find myself thinking he’s guilty but that legally he should be acquitted based on the evidence presented. Which is a mental cluster duck of a thought position.
Well. I think about what he had going on in his life on June 7, 2021:
1. 3 days away from facing a trial in which his financial records could be opened up, Paul’s name ruined, him going broke, and his wife leaving him
2. Wife and son upset at his pill usage
3. That day he was questioned in his Law Firm about missing funds
4. His father, the man who had helped him get through troubles in the past was dying
This is a few, and I can see him thinking that a tragedy such as the murder of his family would help this go away. Tinsley stated that he would not continue with the lawsuit if it had played out that this was a killing done outside of the family. He would have garnered sympathy from his Law Firm, like he initially did, which would give him time to recoup money he owed and clean up his misdeeds. He collected $4.3 million for a housekeeper’s death. How much was he set to collect for his wife and son’s death?
TOD is 9 pm and phones dark at 8:47 or so, correct? within 13 minutes or so?
This is an old picture. It doesn’t have the new entrance or the new silver roofed hanger, which is located parallel and just to the left of the red roof hanger. The dog kennels are just below the red roof hanger tucked Into the tree line.For those of you who haven't seen a map, here is a screenshot of the property with the kennels at the top and the house at the bottom.
Of course you can’t. But do you have the factors piled up in your life right now that I listed in my other post?
I can’t imagine myself ever doing such a thing, but I can see where a prideful, greedy man could find himself thinking this is the best thing for everyone.
Motive is not that important although I think the likely motive was to protect he Murdaugh family name. Someone testified that he seemed more concerned about clearing Paul's name rather than finding a killer.
He didn't want the boat case and his rumored marital troubles to become public. Perhaps that combined with the family confronting his drug use plus the financial troubles at the office pushed him over the edge.
I just don't see how anyone else did it.
1. Dogs weren't barking like someone was in the vicinity.
2. If there was someone, why would they not bring their own weapons.
3. I think Maggie heard him shoot Paul and started walking toward the kennel thinking there had been an accident. He then grabbed the other gun and shot her then she started to run/crawl and he shot her again.
I think he hosed himself off at the scene. His activity around the house was changing clothes, wiping down the golf cart, and gathering the rain coat to wrap the guns and stained clothes. Not sure why he grabs Maggie's phone. The timeline is tight but much more of a possibility than someone showing up without weapons and getting the jump on Paul.
I think this correct as well... add in being in day 2-3 of detoxing from pills...
It sounds like a pretty decent cocktail for disaster... almost a textbook case of a family annihilator.
As for evidence... the timeline as we know it just doesn't add up to what he says... and there is no reason to lie if you are innocent.
Compelling evidence--family guns, his ammo, the complete lack of any blood/dna on him while claiming to have checked pulses of dead family members that were clearly dead. At the very least, something would been on his shoes unless he can hover. He left, MM's phone left, guns left all around the same time... The big lie alibi about the kennel video, THEN the big lie alibi lie about SLED.
If you start with the premise that desperate people do desperate things, I think you can conjure a motive that fits the narrative of what we know now as it relates to what Alex was thinking on Monday morning June 7th of 2021. You have to make the allowance that it won’t necessarily make total sense to someone not in Alex’s shoes, but it was the best he could do given his situation. I doubt he was eager to do it, more resigned that it had to be done than anything.
Alex was/is a narcissist and he just can’t allow for others actions to ruin him, at least not while he can still prevent it.
He had a raging drug addiction and from the sound of it, Paul and Maggie were the only two that held his feet to the fire. They were bird dogging him in the prior weeks leading up to this point and taking his pills.
I would assume he was angry at them for this. The guy has money troubles and he is having to spend thousands of dollars extra to feed a habit that has totally taken control of his life. They are making it hard for him to survive. I can only assume Alex knew he couldn’t beat the habit, based off of the testimony I saw, so he had to find a way to live with taking drugs and not have his wife and son in his grill every step of the way.
He has a hearing in 3 days that will cover, amongst other things, a motion to compel him to disclose financial information because of the boat case suit. The outcome was going to lead him to disclose some level of information to Mark Tinsley, how much at that time was up for debate, but ultimately Tinsley wasn’t the issue.
Danny Henderson (Alex’s attorney) was likely going to have access to all of Alex‘s financial documents in preparing a court ordered summary. That would likely lead to the discovery of millions of dollars of theft at some point in the not too distant future. Danny was a law partner and would have been compelled to report it. The discovery would end Alex’s career, tarnish his family name and land him in jail.
The CFO of his law firm is pestering him about fees to the tune of $750 thousand dollars that has not come to the firm and should have by now on the Farris case. She has information suggesting something is amiss and for the second or third time, brings it to Alex’s attention on the morning of the 7th.
She testified she told Alex she had reason to believe he had received those funds personally. Previous to this she simply was enquiring about when they would arrive and why they hadn’t received them. Alex said he was waiting, trying to see what his options were to get the funds In Maggie’s name due to the boat case. Clearly he was concerned that his finances were going to be under a microscope to some degree. The CFO had notified other partners Alex was wanting to hide money and they said no way. Alex was on the clock to get the Farris fee situation figured out. He was going to have to get the money back to Chris Wilson or risk being fired or having his finances more thoroughly looked into at the law firm.
There was speculation, although not presented at trial, that Alex and Maggie were having marital issues. Certainly not hard to imagine given what we now know. Regardless of the truth of Maggie visiting a divorce attorney or not, I do know most people threaten divorce long before they ever follow through, if they ever follow through. So let’s assume Maggie is or has been telling Alex to get off of the drugs or I am gone. Alex knows if that happens, Mags will take him to the cleaners and the theft will come to light.
I can only assume Alex thought that a tragic accident that killed Paul and Maggie would provide the opportunity to make most of these issues go away. There has been enough testimony to indicate that is likely true.
The boat case could be settled for far less money with out financial discovery. The law firm certainly wouldn’t press him on the Farris fees right away and he could figure out how to get the money back to Chris Wilson and put that fire out. I am not sure the drug thing really was a driving factor, but it was probably a silver lining that he could carry on with out the headache of accountability.
Ultimately most of the desired outcome either happened or was headed in the right direction the first few weeks after the murders.
The problem with the plan Alex crafted is it didn’t give LE any real viable suspects to focus on. There was nothing, no one other than the idea it was vigilante justice related to the boat case.
The boat accident had been two and half years prior and the timing just didn’t fit. Add in that he simply didn’t craft a very good plan that gave him an alibi or set it up in such a way that he could be ruled out rather quickly.
Alex is the only one who truly knows why he did what he did. Regardless of the motive, the facts of the case simply don’t allow for a reasonable alternative other than Alex killing them. Now that he has willingly admitted to lying numerous times about being at the crime scene minutes before Paul and Maggie were killed, I don’t see how a reasonable person can’t conclude he wasn’t the one.
There is plenty of evidence, electronic fingerprints, guns missing, clothes missing, witnesses feeling like Alex was coercing them, etc. that point the finger squarely at Alex. No other scenario outside of Alex planning this would have unfolded in this manner.
The motive isn’t necessary, but there clearly is one.
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Fair enough. I assume you arrive at the guilt part based on his actions after the fact / lies etc?
I read your post and thought, @castlesl is using some big words with which I'm not familiar, so I looked it up:
conger
con·ger
/ˈkäNGɡər/
noun
- a large edible predatory eel of shallow coastal waters.
Spelling was never a strong suit and while spell check is great, it isn’t perfect.
Conjure similar to concoct.
I'm just having fun. And I learned something. I was challenged on manicure vs pedicure yesterday. It was a good post.
Marian was a fair and honest witness that didn't skew her testimony in my direction but the truth. That comment stuck with her and is a slow burn in my mind. The only person that would know how long something was planned is the killer.
For those of you who haven't seen a map, here is a screenshot of the property with the kennels at the top and the house at the bottom.
Thanks. I have random success posting pics. haha. Google measure distance puts it at 1400 feet or 465 yards across a field.
Wouldn't it be horrible if after the first shot AM called out for Maggie to come quick Paul's been shot and for her to turn the corner, see the 2nd shot to Paul, which froze her in her tracks until AM picked up the 2nd gun and headed her way. For me, I'd rather be killed than see my spouse kill my kid.
Gotcha. I just watched a drone video on court tv.com and see the kennels and a new building parallel to the red roofed shed. I assumed the parallel shed was the kennels and had been removed. I assume the new shed and new entrance were there in June 2021? Odd that google has that old of a picture these days.
https://www.courttv.com/title/exhibit-murdaugh-moselle-home-drone-footage/
I agree and would add that "but for" PM's video, AM's buddy Duffy Stone wouldn't have recused himself and AM never gets charged.
AM may be declared not guilty by this jury, but the court of public opinion (and all of the documentaries) have rendered a fairly damning verdict. AM reacts like other narcissists (aka OJ Simpson) and still believes he walks in the rarified air of Low Country elite.
Fact: Most people are murdered by someone they know. Husbands kill wives every day. Mothers kill their children. Just ask Susan Smith.
ALSO FACT: Family killers lie about their involvement. Just ask Susan Smith.
i think they said it was 1100 feet from house to kennels
Whoa. Seems like lots of projection in your statement.
In this post I was asking a question hoping to gain some insight on how other or perhaps most people view the jury process. I think the aim of the jury process is to achieve a consensus determination of guilt or innocence based on the evidence presented in the trial. Several posting here and elsewhere sound to me like they see it otherwise and having taken a very individual stand that AM cannot be legitimately found guilty.
Of course those of us on the outside are not playing by legal jury means. We all read opinions, speculations, character assassinations and defamations all the time and many would find it impossible to stick to the evidence presented in the trial. We in the cheap seats cannot fairly judge the legal outcome. Based on what I have read it looks to me like a rational view of the crime says AM killed his wife and son.
But I have also said that I think the most likely outcome in the trial is a hung jury. I have further said that I don't really think it matters since AM is not going to be executed and he is likely going to spend the rest of his life in prisons for crimes he has admitted he committed.
I have found it interesting how many people have written a lot about AM being a good husband and father who loved his family and a smart man. I don't understand those opinions.
I was called to be a juror in a murder case once. In the questioning process I was excused from serving, I think because my daughter works to get people off of death row and works to make parole a possibility for people who are serving life without parole for crimes committed when they were less than 18 years old. Her work in and around LE and the legal process has strengthened my bias against LE and and the politics behind LE and the judicial process. In other words, the prosecutors thought I was too likely to be motivated to protect the person charged with the murder and to doubt the veracity of items introduced by the state in an effort to reach a guilty verdict and send perhaps not guilty people to jail.
I think from what I know that AM murdered his wife and son. If he did then I think he should be found guilty. Will you be ok if the jury finds AM guilty?
I will be fine if they find him guilty. He most likely did it.
You are being harsh. He is in the audio world. He might not be in the gunshot world.
Alex lies about being at kennels because he knows TOD. I don't understand how people don't understand this. If Alex believes they could have possibly died at 10:05 (a minute before he finds them), then he has no motive to lie about being there. TOD in this case is clear.
Where did state autopsy say TOD is an hour after phone goes dark? Are you saying after 11:30? His phone dies around 10:30.
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