⚖️ MURDAUGH MURDERS & TRIAL THREAD ⚖️

[Cavitybacks]

You are not a smart human.

Alex's phone is in the house. But we KNOW Alex is at kennel at 8:45. Why are you asking where the "phone placed him?"

Are we absolutely certain that SnapChat video was taken at 8:45? Only reason I ask is because at Clemson football games, for example, when service is spotty... I can make a call, but I cannot text a picture and lord knows cannot text a video. The video will be sent an hour later sometimes.

I think Paul called Rogan at 8:40, so yes it does seem like 8:45 is for sure accurate. Just answered my own question.

At minimum, with all of the cell phone activity to all of a sudden stop at 8:49, it's pretty obvious that's when they were shot... between 8:49 and 8:52 The only way that Alex potentially didn't hear this happen is if he was in the shower at 8:50, which is actually possible.

 

[CU1TruTiger4Life]

I don't see how jurors can keep up with everything without being able to take notes. Can the prosecution introduce a spreadsheet with the timeline (and supporting evidence) like the one posted above?

With the timeline, kennel video placing him there, and AM Lieimony, I don’t need anything else.

 

[Clemblack]

I don’t see how anyone can’t at least have some doubt in the time of death. Which to this timeline means a crap load. Move the time of death just 10 min later and the data shows it’s almost impossible for him to do it.

I personally feel that the 59 steps, orientation, and all that could have been Maggie herself. What evidence is there to say it wasn’t? Without a finite time of death it’s hard for me to make that correlation. Or am I missing something? Checking armpit for temperature, what a joke. That’s a very big piece of this puzzle and I think there is more than reasonable doubt here.

TOD is pretty clear because of Paul's inactivity coinciding with Maggies, and the fact that Alex lied about being at the kennel. We know you "don't care about Alex's lie," but he lies because he knows the TOD.

If Alex does not know TOD, he does not have any reason to lie. Read that again.


The armpit stuff is indeed a joke. So don't worry about it. You are overanalyzing insignificant details, while ignoring the entire case. Missing the forest for the trees, if you will.

 

[Boom4life]

Are we absolutely certain that SnapChat video was taken at 8:45? Only reason I ask is because at Clemson football games, for example, when service is spotty... I can make a call, but I cannot text a picture and lord knows cannot text a video. The video will be sent an hour later sometimes.

I think Paul called Rogan at 8:40, so yes it does seem like 8:45 is for sure accurate. Just answered my own question.

At minimum, with all of the cell phone activity to all of a sudden stop at 8:49, it's pretty obvious that's when they were shot... between 8:49 and 8:52 The only way that Alex potentially didn't hear this happen is if he was in the shower at 8:50, which is actually possible.

Maggie’s activity didn’t stop

 

[Clemblack]

Are we absolutely certain that SnapChat video was taken at 8:45? Only reason I ask is because at Clemson football games, for example, when service is spotty... I can make a call, but I cannot text a picture and lord knows cannot text a video. The video will be sent an hour later sometimes.

I think Paul called Rogan at 8:40, so yes it does seem like 8:45 is for sure accurate. Just answered my own question. At minimum, with all of the cell phone activity to all of a sudden stop at 8:49, it's pretty obvious that's when they were shot... between 8:49 and 8:52 The only way that Alex potentially didn't hear this happen is if he was in the shower at 8:50, which is actually possible.

Boom is not. But yes, we are certain. Even defense does not question that Alex is at kennel at 8:45. My God, Alex says this on the stand himself. He admits to being there at 8:47, then the "got out of there."

 

[GoodWord28]

I would assume so, but neither side has called him. I think both sides are worried about what he would say.

Thats spot on

 

[Boom4life]

Boom is not. But yes, we are certain. Even defense does not question that Alex is at kennel at 8:45. My God, Alex says this on the stand himself. He admits to being there at 8:47, then the "got out of there."

I’ll admit that I was confused about what the poster was saying. The Snapchat video places him at the scene but not at the time of the murders. If you believe that he can get to the house shower and leave in whatever exact time you must believe that he could have made it to the house before the states alleged time of death, no?

 

[Cavitybacks]

Maggie’s activity didn’t stop

I mean, the phone was moved, but she was dead. The phone wouldn't open after 8:49.

Technically, Alex could be taken a shower at 8:50. Thus, he would not have heard the gunshots.

That's the only way he doesn't hear the gunshots.

 

[Clemblack]

Why didn’t Maggie’s phone register him moving? Or it being moved at anytime after locking

I assume his phone was locked as well while he was supposedly walking around

Maggie's phone registers 50-something steps beginning at 8:53. Alex has her phone and is not yet making his way to the house. He could have possibly placed phone on or near driveway at this point.

 

[jeffcoat]

I know this guy is an expert witness, but I find it hard to believe a shotgun blast upwards from below the head wouldn't cause an explosive exit wound, yet a shotgun blast downward to the head less than a foot off the ground would have so much blow back that pellets would go backwards and lodge in the top of the door? WTF? But I've only caught bits and pieces so I may have heard wrong...

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I thought previous witnesses (both prosecution & defense) said the shot came from below, hence the 5'-2" vigilante.

 

[Boom4life]

I mean, the phone was moved, but she was dead. The phone wouldn't open after 8:49.

Again how do you know without a reasonable doubt, that she did not take those steps? What evidence prove that?

 

[Clemblack]

I’ll admit that I was confused about what the poster was saying. The Snapchat video places him at the scene but not at the time of the murders. If you believe that he can get to the house shower and leave in whatever exact time you must believe that he could have made it to the house before the states alleged time of death, no?

I don't know what point you're trying to make here. And again I find myself arguing with the guy who "doesn't care about Alex's lie."

 

[Cavitybacks]

Again how do you know without a reasonable doubt, that she did not take those steps? What evidence prove that?

What difference does that honestly make? They were killed at a very similar time.

My point is that the time of death seems extremely likely at 8:50. That means that Alex could have been taking a shower after leaving the hot stinky kennels. If he was taking a shower, he may not have heard the gun shots.

 

[CU1TruTiger4Life]

I’ll admit that I was confused about what the poster was saying. The Snapchat video places him at the scene but not at the time of the murders. If you believe that he can get to the house shower and leave in whatever exact time you must believe that he could have made it to the house before the states alleged time of death, no?

More believable?

1. AM cleaning up and leaving in 16 minutes

2. Shooter(s) comes out of woods with 2 Murdaugh guns and kills Maggie and Paul?

 

[Clemblack]

Again how do you know without a reasonable doubt, that she did not take those steps . What evidence prove that

Paul's phone and Maggies phone have no calls or texts after 8:49 and lock at 8:49. We know Alex is on scene at 8:47, because he testified to this. We know Alex lied about being there many, many times and only admitted it once he was caught. ALEX LIES BECAUSE HE KNOWS TOD.

We do not know 100% that Alex is taking those steps. But it's beyond any reasonable doubt.


connect the dots in the same way you did when you determined the reason your fellow jurors wanted to go home...

 

[tigerjimp]

I agree with the first two experts today on how the shots were fired. I don't necessarily agree with the two shooter theory because if someone wanted to cloud what happened, using two guns would absolutely do it, like they are trying to say now.

The other possibility is that Paul was shot with the shotgun out of rage, and AM had to grab the other gun to deal with Maggie because the shotgun was out of shells.

But the two shooter theory could easily have helped AM if the Jury buys it.

I think AM was suffering mightily today reliving what happened exactly. I do believe that AM regrets what he did, and his emotion isn't all acting. His emotions just aren't being caused by what he wants people to think they are being caused by. The emotions are indeed due his loss, but also his regret and reliving what he did.

The bio blowback explains why the hose had been used and there was water on the ground from the hose. The cart would have stayed clean because the bio matter would have been on the front of AM. It also explains what was happening with the 283 steps once AM got back to the house.

 

[Clemblack]

WHY LET THIS YOUNG ATTORNEY BE THE FACE OF PROSECUTION TODAY?

this is WAYYYYYYY too important

To show that it's not all that important. I'm assuming you're talking about John Marvin?

 

[santee]

Looks like this Palmbach blood spatter guy that testified today for the defense has a history go making his facts fit the side he is on.


In 2011, a judge vacated the verdict and ordered a new trial after finding that a blood spatter analyst gave false and misleading testimony at Peterson's first trial, reports ABC. According to local media reports, Tim Palmbach of the Department of Forensic Science at the University of New Haven testified that the analyst "focused on only some of the blood droplets in the area and didn't disclose to jurors that there was other blood at the scene that didn't fit his findings. Also, many of [the analyst]'s tests appeared to be used to confirm a theory rather than sort through the evidence for the most likely scenario."

 

[Every name taken]

Okay, I will throw out a scenario.

AM and Paul are in the kennels. AM is carrying the shotgun. For whatever reason, an accident happens. The gun goes off and hits Paul. This explains the out angle of the first shot. AM is terrified, sees his son suffering, concludes the wound is mortal. At the same time, Maggie hears the blast and moves to a position to see AM lift the shotgun to put Paul out of his misery. AM drops the gun. Maggie seeing this screams something to the effect, "you killed Paul, I'm calling 911." AM panics. She can't call 911 or now he knows he's in jail. He picks up the AR and shoots her and then finishes her off. This has happened unexpectedly. He's in a panic and know he has to get out of there.

Possible?

All possible except the “putting him out of his misery shot”

 

[Clemblack]

They have is on star Dara
Sure that’s what it leads to but I do not believe it removes all doubt. Just because Maggie’s phone tried to unlock but didn’t doesn’t mean it wasn’t her. My phone doesn’t always recognize me. I have to put in my code sometimes. I think most do or she went to unlock it and only looked at he time. To my knowledge there isn’t any evidence to discredit this. Those are assumptions.

I also like to think you feel the evidence has to show the doubt and that’s simple not how it works. No one has to present data that someone else was there for the jury to find doubt there. The states has to disprove doubt, the defense only has to create it by any means legally possible.

You are misunderstanding the way burden of proof works. First, it's "beyond reasonable doubt." The state doesn't have to prove the case to you beyond all doubt.

Second, you seem to be making the mistake of applying the burden of proof to EACH INDIVIDUAL PIECE OF EVIDENCE. This is improper. You are to apply the burden of proof to the entire case - the totality of the evidence.

You're pointing to a piece of evidence and saying "aha, there's doubt here!" And sure, there may be "doubt" here and there with any evidence. For example, a juror might believe that the female caretaker testimony about Alex walking in with a blue jacket is completely untrue. Fine. That same juror can, and should, still believe he is guilty.

 

[Clemblack]

You still didn’t answer the question. Where is the proof that it was Alex taking the 29 steps and trying to open the phone? The state has that burden to dispute that claim.

You are misunderstanding the way this all works. The state has no burden of proof with each piece of evidence. The burden of proof applies to the totality of the evidence. You are insufferable.

 

[CU1TruTiger4Life]

I agree with the first two experts today on how the shots were fired. I don't necessarily agree with the two shooter theory because if someone wanted to cloud what happened, using two guns would absolutely do it, like they are trying to say now.

The other possibility is that Paul was shot with the shotgun out of rage, and AM had to grab the other gun to deal with Maggie because the shotgun was out of shells.

But the two shooter theory could easily have helped AM if the Jury buys it.

I think AM was suffering mightily today reliving what happened exactly. I do believe that AM regrets what he did, and his emotion isn't all acting. His emotions just aren't being caused by what he wants people to think they are being caused by. The emotions are indeed due his loss, but also his regret and reliving what he did.

The bio blowback explains why the hose had been used and there was water on the ground from the hose. The cart would have stayed clean because the bio matter would have been on the front of AM. It also explains what was happening with the 283 steps once AM got back to the house.

I listened to their testimony and Im not sure I could agree with them unless I saw crime scene photos of the bodies. Have you seen crime scene photos of the bodies?

 

[jeffcoat]

Which verdict do you believe more likely - guilty or not guilty?

A hung jury is most likely, but guilty >>>>>>>>>>> not guilty.

 

[jeffcoat]

Are we absolutely certain that SnapChat video was taken at 8:45? Only reason I ask is because at Clemson football games, for example, when service is spotty... I can make a call, but I cannot text a picture and lord knows cannot text a video. The video will be sent an hour later sometimes.

I think Paul called Rogan at 8:40, so yes it does seem like 8:45 is for sure accurate. Just answered my own question.

At minimum, with all of the cell phone activity to all of a sudden stop at 8:49, it's pretty obvious that's when they were shot... between 8:49 and 8:52 The only way that Alex potentially didn't hear this happen is if he was in the shower at 8:50, which is actually possible.

The timestamp of the video on Pauls phone will show when it was created. It also would probably show when it actually was sent.

 

[tigerjimp]

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I thought previous witnesses (both prosecution & defense) said the shot came from below, hence the 5'-2" vigilante.

I believe they are correct about the contact blast and that it fits with everything in the area”, and the fact that there was birdshot through the top of the shoulder going down into the body. The fact that both Paul and Maggie would have been bent over after the initial shot makes sense and fits the scenario better.

I also don’t believe that the 5.2 theory fits the scene or the birdshot.

 

[Clemblack]

The timestamp of the video on Pauls phone will show when it was created. It also would probably show when it actually was sent.

It was never sent.

 

[Okalaky]

The timestamp of the video on Pauls phone will show when it was created. It also would probably show when it actually was sent.

The last video taken which proves Alex was at the kennels was not a Snapchat video.

it was an iPhone video which captured all geo location data.
it was not sent
Rogan was waiting for the video to be sent via messages, which is why he kept contacting Paul.

 

[Cavitybacks]

Can someone bullet point the main arguments for the defense?

What is the defense hammering home? Which testimony/witness from the defense hits a home run to cast this doubt?

I’d like to go back and listen on YouTube to a couple of the highlights where the defense made great points.

 

[jeffcoat]

I think Ya'll need to just stop trying to convince Boomer. He will not change his stance and half this thread is 4 or 5 guys arguing with him.

 

[KennyRogersRoasters]

Can someone bullet point the main arguments for the defense?

What is the defense hammering home? Which testimony/witness from the defense hits a home run to cast this doubt?

I’d like to go back and listen on YouTube to a couple of the highlights where the defense made great points.

A band of little people snuck onto the property 2 minutes after a video shows big red at the scene of the murders. They used murdaugh weapons to murder mags and pawpaw while big red had gone back to the house to nap. Then they vanished without a trace. Big red didn’t hear the gun shots because he was in a deep sleep just minutes after leaving the kennels. He quickly awoke from that sleep and went to his mother’s house. When he returned home he discovered what the sawed off vigilantes had done.

 

[PawsFan_]

You still didn’t answer the question. Where is the proof that it was Alex taking the 29 steps and trying to open the phone? The state has that burden to dispute that claim.

He was the only person there.

Unless you know more.

 

[7tiget6]

Okay, I will throw out a scenario.

AM and Paul are in the kennels. AM is carrying the shotgun. For whatever reason, an accident happens. The gun goes off and hits Paul. This explains the out angle of the first shot. AM is terrified, sees his son suffering, concludes the wound is mortal. At the same time, Maggie hears the blast and moves to a position to see AM lift the shotgun to put Paul out of his misery. AM drops the gun. Maggie seeing this screams something to the effect, "you killed Paul, I'm calling 911." AM panics. She can't call 911 or now he knows he's in jail. He picks up the AR and shoots her and then finishes her off. This has happened unexpectedly. He's in a panic and know he has to get out of there.

Possible?

I still think Paul was to be an accidental shooting with Maggie being there to witness the accident and to explain how they weren’t fighting before. Something happens and there is the second shot to Paul now no accident and he has to get rid of the witness and make it look like it was an ambush by others.

 

[PawsFan_]

At minimum, with all of the cell phone activity to all of a sudden stop at 8:49, it's pretty obvious that's when they were shot... between 8:49 and 8:52 The only way that Alex potentially didn't hear this happen is if he was in the shower at 8:50, which is actually possible.

Are you suggesting that at 2045 when AM is recorded the kennels, he somehow made it to the main house and into the shower in under 5 minutes? Estimated distance between the main house and kennels is 300+ steps. That takes at least 3-4 minutes for a man to walk.

 

[Cavitybacks]

A band of little people snuck onto the property 2 minutes after a video shows big red at the scene of the murders. They used murdaugh weapons to murder mags and pawpaw while big red had gone back to the house to nap. Then they vanished without a trace. Big red didn’t hear the gun shots because he was in a deep sleep just minutes after leaving the kennels. He quickly awoke from that sleep and went to his mother’s house. When he returned home he discovered what the sawed off vigilantes had done.

Ha.

But seriously, I’d like to watch the best witness/testimonies from the defense. Which are they?

 

[Cavitybacks]

Are you suggesting that at 2045 when AM is recorded the kennels, he somehow made it to the main house and into the shower in under 5 minutes? Estimated distance between the main house and kennels is 300+ steps. That takes at least 3-4 minutes for a man to walk.

He was on his golf cart. Took about a minute.

I don’t believe that happened. Just saying that’s the only defense. In the shower so didn’t hear the shots. (But I’m pretty sure he already testified that he took a shower prior to kennels.)

 

[CU1TruTiger4Life]

He was on his golf cart. Took about a minute.

I don’t believe that happened. Just saying that’s the only defense. In the shower so didn’t hear the shots. (But I’m pretty sure he already testified that he took a shower prior to kennels.)

What has the guy not said? His excuse of lying because he was afraid of SLED is the biggest slap in the jury’s face. He lied because he did it and he was trying to convince them he didn’t. Plain and simple.

 

[PawsFan_]

The time of death is very important to the case. Was the phone pinged at the main house because to my knowledge it wasn’t. Show me that and I’ll change my verdict.

It wasn't her because:
- She was dead...which means her hands don't work
- Her head had bullet in it and now iphone was going to recognize her face.

Cell phone towers don't ping a phone continuously. The phone sitting inactive is basically an activity timer. the carrier sets a frequency it pings like every 8 hours. So you turn your phone on, and it pings once, to tell the network it's on, and where it is. With the activity timer set at 8 hours, unless the phone moves to another cell, makes or recieves a cal or text, or starts a data session, nothing happens. After 8 hours, the phone will ping again, then be dormant for 8 more hours.

 

[MojitoJoe]

I believe they are correct about the contact blast and that it fits with everything in the area”, and the fact that there was birdshot through the top of the shoulder going down into the body. The fact that both Paul and Maggie would have been bent over after the initial shot makes sense and fits the scenario better.

The birdshot (that went down into the body) continued in a strait line as Paul fell forward. There is no way pellets could be driven into the top door jam from a downward shot. All bird shot pellets defects were from an upwards shot and NONE on the floor or lower door jam.
Also.. why would a shooter step into the feed room to shoot down. I know the empty shells were in there, but they could have been tossed.
Further more, there are no bloody shoe prints inside the feed room or outside.... a stunned shooter would also have taken steps and may have even drippid blood from the blowback of skull matter and shot. I think the MUSC ME had it correct... it just make more practical sense.

 

[Ole Tom]

I don't see how jurors can keep up with everything without being able to take notes. Can the prosecution introduce a spreadsheet with the timeline (and supporting evidence) like the one posted above?

I would guess that having lived this nightmare for xdozen days, most on the jury have opinions. I doubt it's like dragging in 12 folks from TI who want to talk about their thousand questions.

First question in the jury room? What do yall think? If I'm in there I might ask a procedural question or two. If I were asked about my view of the verdict, I would say something on the order of "Well there are some open questions, but I think AM is guilty."

How do others see the deliberations among the 12?

 

[PawJourney]

A band of little people snuck onto the property 2 minutes after a video shows big red at the scene of the murders. They used murdaugh weapons to murder mags and pawpaw while big red had gone back to the house to nap. Then they vanished without a trace. Big red didn’t hear the gun shots because he was in a deep sleep just minutes after leaving the kennels. He quickly awoke from that sleep and went to his mother’s house. When he returned home he discovered what the sawed off vigilantes had done.

Totally inappropriate....but every time someone posts about 5'2" shooters, this vision from my childhood pops in mind. There are short adults.