As of yesterday there were 15,226 people in the US hospitilized

[kgwillison]

Absolutely. It's not entirely driven by politics, but the majority is.

I don't think there are elections in China yet China closed Wuhan. I don't think there are elections in Italy yet much of Italy was shut down. And Spain? I could go on and on.

Medical experts like Dr. Fauci and those at the CDC were the ones to recommend social distancing. Nothing to do with politics.

 

[iceheart08]

You can believe whatever you want. I don't care.

and you believe that liberals are pushing this narrative so that the economy will continue to tank and we win an election?

 

[tigersurg]

literally everyone in this thread is cherry-picking data to support their argument when we all, truly, have no idea what's going on. There's a chance we have vastly underreported deaths. There's a chance people are dying from issues that are indirectly caused by the virus (not getting medical care for other treatments). Fewer people are driving and significantly fewer people are showing up at hospitals for heart issues. Is that because people are scared to go to the hospital? Why are a number of states seeing a MAJOR spike in general deaths from prior years?

are young people seeing significantly higher stroke rates? Is there lasting damage to people's lungs from the disase?

So many unanswered questions that all of a sudden the virology experts on this board are 100% certain about.

I’m a physician, and I don’t disagree with anything you said. The only thing I can 100% say is incorrect in this thread is scartiger claiming that hospitals are making money off of this thing. Hospitals are taking a major financial beating right now.

 

[stigers91]

And the hysteria has created massive issues for supplies that will go on into 2021. China is absolutely bending us over right now, selling to highest bidder for wired cash up front regardless of how long relationships been established, and can’t manufacture or deliver fast enough.

that's so odd. my brother-in-law ordered a few hundred masks from China for my wife's Dentist office and got them in a couple weeks. Granted this wasn't anywhere the number you are needing to deal in, but it just seems odd he could get them seemingly easy.

 

[saber8689]

Hospitals are losing money right now. Scartigers claims are silly.

Sure, there are going to be hospitals that try to game the system, but hospitals make their money from elective surgeries and procedures.

My hospital lost 8 million dollars in April.

 

[coop#]

[QUOTE="bizlat, post: 3902976, member: 3046"

Close the parks, open the McDonald's? What kind of sense does that make?
/QUOTE]
Hilarious

 

[scartiger]

And that doesn't have jackcrap to do with what a hospital or physician is paid.

It dosen't? Ok we'll have to agree to disagree. I mean you trying to deny a fact check article from a liberal newspaper.

 

[jimbob1019]

I agree we need to open but you should stop being flippant and understand we will lose possibly a lot of seniors in the process.

People dying is always sad...

People dying from Covid is sad...people dying from the flu is sad...people dying from cancer is sad...people dying from car accidents is sad...etc.

Bottom line though...people die...usually from something...& the first age group typically affected is the elderly folks. Sad but true...it’s just the way it is...the circle of life. It’s always been that way. But life as everyone knows it has never stopped despite death....bc it is accepted as it should be. Death is a part of life...for everyone....& is like to see if our overall death rate is higher this year than normal. I highly doubt it is...

And I highly doubt we are going through this if this is 2021...just saying

 

[Tiger1425]

Yes. Lets shut down the economy. Unemploy 30+million people, force people to stay in their houses and wear mask until at least next summer if a vaccine comes out, over a virus that only negatively affects high risk people.

People still can't comprehend that the point of quarantine and social distancing is not to prevent people from getting the virus. Its to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed at the same time...which isn't happening...anywhere.

So, according to you we really don't care if you get the virus. Just don't clog up the hospitals. Got it.

 

[scartiger]

Hospitals are losing money right now. Scartigers claims are silly.

Sure, there are going to be hospitals that try to game the system, but hospitals make their money from elective surgeries and procedures.

My hospital lost 8 million dollars in April.

I've never said hospitals isn't losing money. I've said they are getting more money per patient if they have the virus which I have already proven in my link.

 

[Ron Munson]

So, according to you we really don't care if you get the virus. Just don't clog up the hospitals. Got it.

That's literally the point of social distancing and stay-at-home orders.

The virus isn't going anywhere. Outside of a vaccine, nothing is going to prevent people from getting it.

 

[nmerritt11]

that's so odd. my brother-in-law ordered a few hundred masks from China for my wife's Dentist office and got them in a couple weeks. Granted this wasn't anywhere the number you are needing to deal in, but it just seems odd he could get them seemingly easy.

3-ply war loop and KN-95 have availability and we are good on those supplies currently. Disposable isolation gowns, hand sanitizer, nitrile gloves, infrared thermometers, pulse Oximeter a, face shields are touch and go

soon to be vinyl gloves...my purchasing team has done an amazing job sourcing this stuff and we’ve been pretty good with exception of gowns. Nitrile we are just now becoming screwed. Just had someone find some in US and wanted $21 a box for them. We bought them for around $4-5 on previous orders. Containers are taking forever, customs getting strict, and everything is changing

Just ordered gowns and had to pay something like $130 more per case just so we could have them. Have bad reusable gowns on order since last month and hope to have them by end of this month

Everyone also now has a “source” for everything...they are all “reputable” plants they work with yet they can’t get us the info we need to feel good about wiring money. Masks should be OK moving forward outside of true 100% N95

And the price increases on gloves, gowns, freight etc is out of control. It’s criminal

 

[stigers91]

3-ply war loop and KN-95 have availability and we are good on those supplies currently. Disposable isolation gowns, hand sanitizer, nitrile gloves, infrared thermometers, pulse Oximeter a, face shields are touch and go

soon to be vinyl gloves...my purchasing team has done an amazing job sourcing this stuff and we’ve been pretty good with exception of gowns. Nitrile we are just now becoming screwed. Just had someone find some in US and wanted $21 a box for them. We bought them for around $4-5 on previous orders. Containers are taking forever, customs getting strict, and everything is changing

Just ordered gowns and had to pay something like $130 more per case just so we could have them. Have bad reusable gowns on order since last month and hope to have them by end of this month

Everyone also now has a “source” for everything...they are all “reputable” plants they work with yet they can’t get us the info we need to feel good about wiring money. Masks should be OK moving forward outside of true 100% N95

And the price increases on gloves, gowns, freight etc is out of control. It’s criminal

sounds correct....I asked him and it was KN95 masks he obtained. He sd the same, that true N95 are still more difficult to come by.

 

[iceheart08]

It dosen't? Ok we'll have to agree to disagree. I mean you trying to deny a fact check article from a liberal newspaper.

USA today is a "liberal newspaper" holy shit your worldview is nuts.

 

[TigerCaper]

I don't think there are elections in China yet China closed Wuhan. I don't think there are elections in Italy yet much of Italy was shut down. And Spain? I could go on and on.

Medical experts like Dr. Fauci and those at the CDC were the ones to recommend social distancing. Nothing to do with politics.

in serious or critical condition due to Covid-19 related syptoms. There are over 900,000 hospital beds in the US.

There are currently 50,000 people in the world considered in serious or critical condiiton due to the virus.

This number has dropped each day this week.

Spot the damn ball.

I am surprised so many have so much confidence in their presumed understanding of the situation, what will happen next, and what the best course is at this juncture.

NYC is unique, and I hope its density is the sole reason for its extreme epidemic compared to the rest of the country. Other possible explanations, however, are that it was the first because of its unique and massive connections to the rest of the world as one of the most international cities in the world (together with London). Another possible explanation is that the rest of the country used NYC as the example to distance, etc. before outbreaks elsewhere got out of control as the extreme epidemic in NYC was, predictably, the earliest in the USA. Another possible explanation is that the seeding in other areas of the USA was far enough behind that warmer, brighter weather subdued the outbreaks elsewhere, especially in SoCal and the sunbelt. Or all of these together. We will know a lot more by this December, I suspect.

In any event, I personally believe most of the country needs to get back to work soon regardless. We cannot have a prolonged depression. In fact, if the weather is the primary assist then maybe we all need to go to extreme work hours until the fall so that we can then slow down if winter limits our ability to work then! However, we need all levels of government giving us clear, consistent, coordinated, easily understood recommendations as to how to go back to work as safely as possible for as many persons as possible. I have yet to hear a message like that.

 

[Clemblack]

and you believe that liberals are pushing this narrative so that the economy will continue to tank and we win an election?

Do you not think the media is silently celebrating this virus and the current state of the economy in hopes that Trump will lose the election?

Don Lemon loves Covid19. He thanks God for it.

 

[nytigerfan]

People aren't interested in facts though. They won't to keep the lockdown going indefinitely and destroy the economy and create fear.

who hurt you man?

 

[CUFam98]

It dosen't? Ok we'll have to agree to disagree. I mean you trying to deny a fact check article from a liberal newspaper.

This is really not all that hard. They are 2 completely separate systems with completely separate criteria. One goes to state public health/CDC to figure out the rate of COVID infections and death. The other, that is required to have a positive test, goes to CMS/Medicare for reimbursement.

I've already pointed out why the article was wrong. The fact checkers fact checked the wrong thing. I don't know what the USA Today's liberal bent has to do with anything.

 

[scartiger]

USA today is a "liberal newspaper" holy shit your worldview is nuts.

USA Today - Media Bias/Fact Check
A 2014 Pew Research Survey found that 41% of USA Today's audience is consistently or mostly liberal, 32% Mixed and 27% consistently or mostly

 

[CUFam98]

I've never said hospitals isn't losing money. I've said they are getting more money per patient if they have the virus which I have already proven in my link.

Of course they are. A painter painting a bigger house is going to be paid more than the one painting a smaller one. Physicians that do brain surgery get paid more than dermatologists.

The article was about hospitals and physicians gaming the system to artificially inflate the number of COVID patients or their treatment path to get more money. The only way to get more money is to have a positive COVID test. Doesn't matter if 100 doctors say "yeap, that person looks COVID to me" they have to have a positive test. Its pretty well cut and dried.

 

[DI Tiger]

I don't think there is an alternative as we need to open. But it needs to be stated that we will lose a lot of our seniors possibly in the process. It's just sad people are so flippant and don't really care.

at risk population will need to take additional precautions, and the rest of us will need to be smart and safe going about our activities. I don’t think most are flippant or don’t care.

 

[JamesIslandTiger]

High risk people should be taking precautions for any virus/bacteria. The common cold can kill a sickly or elderly person. Bronchitus kills people... Your point is dead on.

Heck every year the Flu virus mutates. Do we shutdown for that? No. Is there a vaccine for the newly mutated virus? No. So what do we do? Nothing. We educate on proper hand washing, coughing in your sleeve, and if you have health issues get the vaccine and stay away from sickly people as best you can. There are no guarantees...

 

[CUAngler]

Invoking the flu in any of these arguments should be an automatic disqualifion.

There may be no perfect vaccine for newly mutated flu but our immune systems have memory and previous exposures still give us some antibody resistance to help with the severity. We don’t have that luxury with covid.

 

[JamesIslandTiger]

..and how do we get that antibody resistance? We get exposed, our immune system fights it and we move on. Just like we did with the flu virus before there was a vaccine. This isn't the Ebola virus...

 

[piperdog188]

..and how do we get that antibody resistance? We get exposed, our immune system fights it and we move on. Just like we did with the flu virus before there was a vaccine. This isn't the Ebola virus...

What do you do for the hospital? Are you a doctor or just admin? Because sounds like you want to take the Sweden approach of herd immunity which is starting to backfire bigtime for them.

 

[Bootiger61]

3-ply war loop and KN-95 have availability and we are good on those supplies currently. Disposable isolation gowns, hand sanitizer, nitrile gloves, infrared thermometers, pulse Oximeter a, face shields are touch and go

soon to be vinyl gloves...my purchasing team has done an amazing job sourcing this stuff and we’ve been pretty good with exception of gowns. Nitrile we are just now becoming screwed. Just had someone find some in US and wanted $21 a box for them. We bought them for around $4-5 on previous orders. Containers are taking forever, customs getting strict, and everything is changing

Just ordered gowns and had to pay something like $130 more per case just so we could have them. Have bad reusable gowns on order since last month and hope to have them by end of this month

Everyone also now has a “source” for everything...they are all “reputable” plants they work with yet they can’t get us the info we need to feel good about wiring money. Masks should be OK moving forward outside of true 100% N95

And the price increases on gloves, gowns, freight etc is out of control. It’s criminal

The SC Dental Association is scrambling trying to get N95 masks for its members. Major problems

 

[CU Alumnus]

3-ply war loop and KN-95 have availability and we are good on those supplies currently. Disposable isolation gowns, hand sanitizer, nitrile gloves, infrared thermometers, pulse Oximeter a, face shields are touch and go

soon to be vinyl gloves...my purchasing team has done an amazing job sourcing this stuff and we’ve been pretty good with exception of gowns. Nitrile we are just now becoming screwed. Just had someone find some in US and wanted $21 a box for them. We bought them for around $4-5 on previous orders. Containers are taking forever, customs getting strict, and everything is changing

Just ordered gowns and had to pay something like $130 more per case just so we could have them. Have bad reusable gowns on order since last month and hope to have them by end of this month

Everyone also now has a “source” for everything...they are all “reputable” plants they work with yet they can’t get us the info we need to feel good about wiring money. Masks should be OK moving forward outside of true 100% N95

And the price increases on gloves, gowns, freight etc is out of control. It’s criminal

Have you looked into local (US) companies making them? I'm thinking companies that work with cloth but don't make gowns. I know that's not an easy thing to do but it might be a solution.

The tragedy here is if we don't learn our lesson and source some of this stuff from places outside of China. Even if it's not the US - India, Phillipines, Taiwan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Mexico - SOMEWHERE.

 

[IcelandTiger]

What do you do for the hospital? Are you a doctor or just admin? Because sounds like you want to take the Sweden approach of herd immunity which is starting to backfire bigtime for them.

The WHO just praised what Sweden is doing. It will be interesting to continue monitoring what happens over the next year

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...the-new-coronavirus-normal-says-who-dd8fgw7d0

 

[piperdog188]

The WHO just praised what Sweden is doing. It will be interesting to continue monitoring what happens over the next year

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...the-new-coronavirus-normal-says-who-dd8fgw7d0

To be fair, the WHO also praised Chinese transparency and their response, so they don't exactly have a ton of credibility right now.

 

[IcelandTiger]

To be fair, the WHO also praised Chinese transparency and their response, so they don't exactly have a ton of credibility right now.

Oh I agree. Just pointing out the hypocrisy and errors of the experts

 

[4toTampa]

I have access to hand sanitizer, gowns, KN95s. N95s are almost impossible to get right now

 

[scartiger]

Of course they are. A painter painting a bigger house is going to be paid more than the one painting a smaller one. Physicians that do brain surgery get paid more than dermatologists.

The article was about hospitals and physicians gaming the system to artificially inflate the number of COVID patients or their treatment path to get more money. The only way to get more money is to have a positive COVID test. Doesn't matter if 100 doctors say "yeap, that person looks COVID to me" they have to have a positive test. Its pretty well cut and dried.

So you're agreeing with me. Ok

 

[thebooyaa]

Invoking the flu in any of these arguments should be an automatic disqualifion.

There may be no perfect vaccine for newly mutated flu but our immune systems have memory and previous exposures still give us some antibody resistance to help with the severity. We don’t have that luxury with covid.

You produce antibodies for this virus which WILL give you some sort of immunity. Time and how much immunity is the question. The flu as of now mutates more frequently from what data shows so hopefully antibodies for Covid will do a better job

 

[thebooyaa]

that's so odd. my brother-in-law ordered a few hundred masks from China for my wife's Dentist office and got them in a couple weeks. Granted this wasn't anywhere the number you are needing to deal in, but it just seems odd he could get them seemingly easy.

that's so odd. my brother-in-law ordered a few hundred masks from China for my wife's Dentist office and got them in a couple weeks. Granted this wasn't anywhere the number you are needing to deal in, but it just seems odd he could get them seemingly easy.

Better check those mask. We had 200 ordered from China that got confiscated by feds because they were counterfeit. Legit N95 are hard to come by right now. The SCDA is scrambling right now for mask. Luckily we got 100 few weeks ago after the other debacle.

 

[Ron Munson]

Earlier today McMaster said restaurants with outdoor seating can open on Monday, with certain restrictions.

Also, short term rentals can open back up.

Doomdayers feel free to stay home if you don't want to die.

 

[pwjacks]

Of course they are. A painter painting a bigger house is going to be paid more than the one painting a smaller one. Physicians that do brain surgery get paid more than dermatologists.

The article was about hospitals and physicians gaming the system to artificially inflate the number of COVID patients or their treatment path to get more money. The only way to get more money is to have a positive COVID test. Doesn't matter if 100 doctors say "yeap, that person looks COVID to me" they have to have a positive test. Its pretty well cut and dried.

Just one point of correction here. Most dermatologists make more than brain surgeons.

 

[pwjacks]

You really can't sway anybody on either side of the coin. The way I see it, the question to ask in any debate like this is:

How, over the next 12 months, do you keep infections and deaths from going up?

We have planning in the blind with a short term strategy (flatten the curve) and it worked. So now, we need a mid-term and long-term strategy. It's time to shift the question.

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

You have some serious issues. You need to get off my nuts and stop stalking my posts.


If you want to continue the lockdown, by all means, stay in your house. You seem like a fairly miserable person, so it probably fits you. But don't expect everyone to stay locked down until a vaccine comes out.

LMFAO!!! Naw I'm ready to get back to life again kitty cat! You seem to be the miserable one IYAM.

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

You don’t like his takes because they are...accurate??
He didn’t say anything that was untrue...but then again, there are some here that don’t care about the truth...

I owe @Ron Munson an apology. You and Amy have the most ignorant takes on this subject.

 

[CUAngler]

You produce antibodies for this virus which WILL give you some sort of immunity. Time and how much immunity is the question. The flu as of now mutates more frequently from what data shows so hopefully antibodies for Covid will do a better job

yes, but very few have covid antibodies at this point in the global population. The reason why I replied that we aren’t in a position to make comparisons to the flu is because most of the population doesn’t have those antibodies right now like we do the flu. The poster insinuated that the flu vaccine isn’t perfect, but regardless of the flu vaccine, we still get exposed to the flu every few years for the most part and our bodies are somewhat prepared to see the next iteration of the flu because it’s been imprinted in our immune system, even though it’s slightly mutated and even without being administered a vaccine. We haven’t seen covid-19 at all yet which is why it’s hitting us harder than the flu. We are basically playing a team with a new playbook that’s moving the ball on us early in the 1st quarter. Once we square them up after the second series our talent will take over and we will be fine.