Clemson and NewSpring
- Thread starter SWUtigers
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Have you ever once been to the Anderson campus? They have machines you can use your credit card/debit card to tithe. I can take you to Sullivan's or the coffee shop within Sullivans. You can look up blogs of Perry's where he claims he goes to Sullivans multiple times per week. Perry most definitely has had bodyguards. He even said so himself that for a while he didn't feel safe and had to have them. Not sure who would waste time on physically attacking Perry as he wouldn't put up much of a fight (even though he also brags "I'm 6'6 220 I don't have anything to be scared of" lol) but apparently something was going on where he didn't feel safe. There's no lies to fit my agenda. You can go here http://newspring.cc/give to give your tithe although only a few short weeks ago Perry said over and over that it doesn't say "give the tithe" but "BRING the tithe" in the bible. He never is one to care for following what the bible actually says.
NewSpringEverett just answer this question for me. Do you think it is becoming of a Christian for Perry to call someone who points out one of his flaws or objects to his teaching a "jackass"? Do you think it is Christian like of him to tell people to attack those who attack his church?
Also since you laugh that I gave you a "nickname" am I wrong in assuming the NS in your name stands for newspring? The way you're going nuts over the criticism in this thread it is quite obvious you are NS blind sheep who doesn't find it alarming your "pastor" uses cuss words to describe his critics, travels all over the world living the leisure life while telling his "owners" he doesn't have time to waste visiting them, marrying them, or giving them private counsel, or that he constantly lies about the church's money use while refusing to show what he does with the money? I guess you think Dabo is somehow not 100 times busier than Perry yet he has time to visit Clemson fans he's never met in the hospital all the time.
NewSpringEverett just answer this question for me. Do you think it is becoming of a Christian for Perry to call someone who points out one of his flaws or objects to his teaching a "jackass"? Do you think it is Christian like of him to tell people to attack those who attack his church?
Also since you laugh that I gave you a "nickname" am I wrong in assuming the NS in your name stands for newspring? The way you're going nuts over the criticism in this thread it is quite obvious you are NS blind sheep who doesn't find it alarming your "pastor" uses cuss words to describe his critics, travels all over the world living the leisure life while telling his "owners" he doesn't have time to waste visiting them, marrying them, or giving them private counsel, or that he constantly lies about the church's money use while refusing to show what he does with the money? I guess you think Dabo is somehow not 100 times busier than Perry yet he has time to visit Clemson fans he's never met in the hospital all the time.
Chunks Corbett, Elevation's executive pastor, is the trustee for Jumper Drive Trust. Jumper Drive Trust owns Furtick's new home. You can look up the rest for yourself there genius. These guys do everything unethical they can to avoid taxes so of course a trust owned by the church owns his home lol.
Also do yourself a favor and look up how Perry and Furtick's books found themselves on the bestseller's list. Their CHURCH bought tens of thousands of copies. Funny enough you'll see both preacher's books sold very few copies outside of what their churches bought. Nice little way to funnel money to your pastor and put him on a best seller's list isn't it? lol. Before these guys brag about best seller neither of the two's books have made it to the top 500 of any actual best seller's list they both made the top 10 for the type of book they wrote. Neither of the two's books have sold very many copies.
Both are accurate. Especially the book part about churches buying thousands of copies and the members giving 5 stars. The money is then funneled back to the pastor tax free.
This thread proves yet again just how scary religion can be. These guys are likely crooks stealing from people and not only are they happy about it, but they get defensive when people question it. Wow...Brilliant business model. Sick and twisted, but brilliant.
I've said it once and I'll say it again...some of the world's biggest criminals reside in the church. These guys maybe legit, but wow it certainly doesn't seem likely.
I've said it once and I'll say it again...some of the world's biggest criminals reside in the church. These guys maybe legit, but wow it certainly doesn't seem likely.
I have a problem if the financials of the church are not transparent. Forbush here in Charlotte was under some heat recently because he would not disclose how much he spent on his Lake Normon mansion.
So Newspring = Waco?
I kid, I kid. Seriously, though, after watching some of PN's stuff online, and doing some extensive reading (not just of that blog by the Anderson Professor either) I have come to the conclusion that PN is a crook, just like Joel Osteen is a crook and 90% of the other evangelical pastors that are out there to make gobs of money. I'll take my church that probably barely stays in the black anyday, where I can actually get my preacher to preside over a wedding or a funeral, etc. I want to have a relationship with my preacher, not have him be some untouchable figure that I can't speak to because my church contains thousands of people.
JMO. Sorry if it offends anyone.
Do you have proof that the church bought books (speaking specifically to NS) to "move it up the NYT best seller list" and proof that the money is funneled back to the pastor tax free?
Serious questions, I'm not being facetious.
Agree with this. The leader of a church should never be bigger than that church. And imo should be men of quiet dignity and humility--willing to spend whatever time necessary with their congregation. I also believe true houses of God do not "beg" for your money. The church I attend has maybe one sermon every two years where tithing is even brought up or mentioned and we do not pass the plate (preferring to place it outside in the lobby, where your giving or not giving is a matter between you and God) To date our financial needs have always been met and things work out fine.
No proof except have heard stories from someone I trust that knows how both churches work. I have been told basically that their is a company that purchases for the church but makes it look like individual purchases. Like I said I have no real proof except for what I have heard from a person I trust has no reason to lie. The problem with all this is there is a lot being said that may not be able to prove but then again NS, elevation etc doesn't have or provide proof it doesn't happen bc there is no transparency.
I don't want to pick on just PN and Furtick because they are not the only ones involved in this shady "business". They are just easy to stand out bc of the size of their church, have died hair, seem cool, wear makeup and appear to enjoy putting on a show. Like I mentioned all pastors work the system to avoid paying taxes by the increase of housing allowance (non taxable). They never want a salary increase but are all about increasing their housing allowance.
Went to NewSpring for about a year or so a few years back. We would drive to the Anderson campus, but go to the Greenville one every now and then.
I can attest to the whole bodyguard thing. That started the process of us looking elsewhere. It was at the Greenville campus and a Tahoe pulls up at one of the back doors, Perry jumps out with about 5 or 6 guys encircling him. They then walk through to this back corridor near where we were checking our kids in. It was just weird how he was acknowledging people while being hurried by his "escort" through the room.
Also, they do get external audits done, but having served on finance teams at other churches (and currently where I attend) that doesn't mean much as they don't provide a breakdown of "Salary", it's just a lump sum, and staff (especially pastors) get housing allowances, car allowances, cell phone expense accounts, grocery expense accounts, travel expense, books/study expense, etc. Pretty much any expense occurred that can in anyway be tied to the church they get comped for, on top of their salary.
The church I attend now is smaller and the leaders transparent though so we know exactly where and who the money goes to and anything over budget either gets put somewhere that is in need or given to one of the charities we work with. The lead pastor drives the same car he did in college in lives in a small house (
I can attest to the whole bodyguard thing. That started the process of us looking elsewhere. It was at the Greenville campus and a Tahoe pulls up at one of the back doors, Perry jumps out with about 5 or 6 guys encircling him. They then walk through to this back corridor near where we were checking our kids in. It was just weird how he was acknowledging people while being hurried by his "escort" through the room.
Also, they do get external audits done, but having served on finance teams at other churches (and currently where I attend) that doesn't mean much as they don't provide a breakdown of "Salary", it's just a lump sum, and staff (especially pastors) get housing allowances, car allowances, cell phone expense accounts, grocery expense accounts, travel expense, books/study expense, etc. Pretty much any expense occurred that can in anyway be tied to the church they get comped for, on top of their salary.
The church I attend now is smaller and the leaders transparent though so we know exactly where and who the money goes to and anything over budget either gets put somewhere that is in need or given to one of the charities we work with. The lead pastor drives the same car he did in college in lives in a small house (
Well for one, a quick internet search shows that PN's book was never a #1 NYT bestseller (It was this article will point out. The last article references ResultSource as a company that helps people get their books on the NYT bestseller list, and PN's good friend Mark Driskal (he wrote a glowing reviewing of PN's book on the NS homepage) is under fire right now for using that company to have his church buy enough books to have his book do that exact thing.
The internet man, crazy stuff if you just take a minute to look a few things up...
I don't know how anybody who has watched that video could sit in a "church" run by this man. Christianity is about humility, sacrifice, struggle, man's search for perfection in an imperfect body and an imperfect world. Giving of oneself physically, mentally, spiritually to others. Overcoming the Ego and finding personal happiness by making others happy, by caring for those around you. Look at Pope Francis for an example of a man trying to live a Christian life. I say that as a non Catholic.
God does not run some cosmic pay for play scheme, where if you give your 10% your car doesn't break down and your kid isn't sick. The god this man would have you believe in is a petulant child, demanding his money or else he'll smite you with a bunch of punishments, when the whole point of Christianity should be perseverance through the troubles of the world by faith and fellowship with other people.
Its disturbing to me that so many are drawn to this charlatanism. The man is a charismatic snake oil salesman.
Here is the only think I will put in this thread
#1: It amazes me that every time New Spring has a baptism they have thousands of people who give their lives to God and get Baptized. What does that say about the retention rate of the church? That is a little concerning from the outside looking in but it is what it is
#2: I hate the "I Love My Church" stuff. Why is it all about "My Church?"
#3: It has become such a production. Since the days @ Anderson College
#4: I do think Perry preaches some good sermons that can be put into practice on a daily basis. He makes some strong points and I have enjoyed quite a few of the, With family on staff we attend on occasion. I am not big on the smoke and light show but I do think there have been some solid messages that have challenged my thinking.
#5: You cannot lump all mega churches into the same group. I was happy when Seacoast stopped reporting numbers to such groups and decided to become a small church with big church resources.
It is a fine line. A churches job is to bring people to Christ and even if 100 people that would normally not become Christians, go public and get Baptized at New Spring and continue that path of developing a relationship it is hard to fault them.
Fact is, when I tithe, I am honoring God and have to trust the church uses that money to do the same. I feel in the research I have done, the works Seacoast has done, the churches they have help plant, the things they have done stateside and nation wide, that they are utilizing that money in that way.
Fact is when you grow as large as New Spring has there are going to be people on the outside looking in that are critical. But I do think New Spring brings a lot of that onto themselves. But maybe that is one reason they have grown so fast? Who knows...I know nothing about Elevation other than I have heard Furdick speak one time about his time at North Greenville living in the football dorms and he was funny as crap talking about holding Bible studies for football players and offering free food and dang near going broke
#1: It amazes me that every time New Spring has a baptism they have thousands of people who give their lives to God and get Baptized. What does that say about the retention rate of the church? That is a little concerning from the outside looking in but it is what it is
#2: I hate the "I Love My Church" stuff. Why is it all about "My Church?"
#3: It has become such a production. Since the days @ Anderson College
#4: I do think Perry preaches some good sermons that can be put into practice on a daily basis. He makes some strong points and I have enjoyed quite a few of the, With family on staff we attend on occasion. I am not big on the smoke and light show but I do think there have been some solid messages that have challenged my thinking.
#5: You cannot lump all mega churches into the same group. I was happy when Seacoast stopped reporting numbers to such groups and decided to become a small church with big church resources.
It is a fine line. A churches job is to bring people to Christ and even if 100 people that would normally not become Christians, go public and get Baptized at New Spring and continue that path of developing a relationship it is hard to fault them.
Fact is, when I tithe, I am honoring God and have to trust the church uses that money to do the same. I feel in the research I have done, the works Seacoast has done, the churches they have help plant, the things they have done stateside and nation wide, that they are utilizing that money in that way.
Fact is when you grow as large as New Spring has there are going to be people on the outside looking in that are critical. But I do think New Spring brings a lot of that onto themselves. But maybe that is one reason they have grown so fast? Who knows...I know nothing about Elevation other than I have heard Furdick speak one time about his time at North Greenville living in the football dorms and he was funny as crap talking about holding Bible studies for football players and offering free food and dang near going broke
Here is the only think I will put in this thread
#1: It amazes me that every time New Spring has a baptism they have thousands of people who give their lives to God and get Baptized. What does that say about the retention rate of the church? That is a little concerning from the outside looking in but it is what it is
#2: I hate the "I Love My Church" stuff. Why is it all about "My Church?"
#3: It has become such a production. Since the days @ Anderson College
#4: I do think Perry preaches some good sermons that can be put into practice on a daily basis. He makes some strong points and I have enjoyed quite a few of the, With family on staff we attend on occasion. I am not big on the smoke and light show but I do think there have been some solid messages that have challenged my thinking.
#5: You cannot lump all mega churches into the same group. I was happy when Seacoast stopped reporting numbers to such groups and decided to become a small church with big church resources.
It is a fine line. A churches job is to bring people to Christ and even if 100 people that would normally not become Christians, go public and get Baptized at New Spring and continue that path of developing a relationship it is hard to fault them.
Fact is, when I tithe, I am honoring God and have to trust the church uses that money to do the same. I feel in the research I have done, the works Seacoast has done, the churches they have help plant, the things they have done stateside and nation wide, that they are utilizing that money in that way.
Fact is when you grow as large as New Spring has there are going to be people on the outside looking in that are critical. But I do think New Spring brings a lot of that onto themselves. But maybe that is one reason they have grown so fast? Who knows...I know nothing about Elevation other than I have heard Furdick speak one time about his time at North Greenville living in the football dorms and he was funny as crap talking about holding Bible studies for football players and offering free food and dang near going broke
#1: It amazes me that every time New Spring has a baptism they have thousands of people who give their lives to God and get Baptized. What does that say about the retention rate of the church? That is a little concerning from the outside looking in but it is what it is
#2: I hate the "I Love My Church" stuff. Why is it all about "My Church?"
#3: It has become such a production. Since the days @ Anderson College
#4: I do think Perry preaches some good sermons that can be put into practice on a daily basis. He makes some strong points and I have enjoyed quite a few of the, With family on staff we attend on occasion. I am not big on the smoke and light show but I do think there have been some solid messages that have challenged my thinking.
#5: You cannot lump all mega churches into the same group. I was happy when Seacoast stopped reporting numbers to such groups and decided to become a small church with big church resources.
It is a fine line. A churches job is to bring people to Christ and even if 100 people that would normally not become Christians, go public and get Baptized at New Spring and continue that path of developing a relationship it is hard to fault them.
Fact is, when I tithe, I am honoring God and have to trust the church uses that money to do the same. I feel in the research I have done, the works Seacoast has done, the churches they have help plant, the things they have done stateside and nation wide, that they are utilizing that money in that way.
Fact is when you grow as large as New Spring has there are going to be people on the outside looking in that are critical. But I do think New Spring brings a lot of that onto themselves. But maybe that is one reason they have grown so fast? Who knows...I know nothing about Elevation other than I have heard Furdick speak one time about his time at North Greenville living in the football dorms and he was funny as crap talking about holding Bible studies for football players and offering free food and dang near going broke
My first experience with a "mega church" was when I was flipping channels one night and saw redemption woc and the apostle Ron preaching. So I started watching next thing I know he is walking around his congregation and said something like God is telling me one of you want to give me a $100 (not kidding) some guy hands him a $100 bill and he then walks through the choir and stops. Then says god is telling me to give you this money. Then hands the $100 to some lady in choir. Not sure if it was staged but I knew then this stuff wasn't for me.
You've got me curious...if Newspring refuses to release "the books", how do you know that Perry uses church money for all of the things that you claim he does? And another question; why are you so mad about it? Why so jealous? Has Perry somehow personally hurt you? Has Newspring somehow hurt you? You sure do have a lot of resentment and I'm just trying to figure out where it comes from.
Let me go ahead and address the blog, I read it yesterday and I can already see that that's what you'll try to respond with. I know for a fact that not everything in that blog is 100% accurate. But I will admit that if even one thing in the blog is true that it's very disappointing to me as a member of Newspring. The events detailed in that blog occurred before I started going to Newspring so I didn't have any knowledge of it prior to yesterday, but I do intend to do some digging and see what I can find out. I don't have high hopes for finding out much, but I know several people who have been going to Newspring since it had only a few dozen attendees, so hopefully they'll be able to tell me more about it.
And let me also say that there isn't a church anywhere in the world that isn't ran, organized, funded, and lead by sinners. People have the false idea that Christians are supposed to be perfect. Trust me, the "holier than thou" attitude that a lot of Christians have surely doesn't help matters, but just know that not everyone who claims they are a Christian really is. It's the same thing as the coots we have on this board. You don't really know what the intentions of that person are until they fully reveal themselves. One person can do a whole lot more damage to an organization from the inside than 100 people can from the outside. Don't be fooled.
But back to money...have you read the Bible? What topic did Jesus speak the most about? How much of Jesus's own money did he spend buying his food or paying for his trips? I can already guess, the simpleton in you is thinking "A ha!!! TT just said that Perry is Jesus! Can you believe that!?!?!?! What a "blind sheep", he's crazy!" No no no, let me explain; no, Perry isn't Jesus, he isn't anywhere close to Jesus. But when you do great things in Jesus's name, the saved will do great things for you, while the unsaved will hate you.
You claim that Perry twists and distorts the Bible, and there are definitely some things that he has an interesting interpretation of, but you have seriously gone off the deep end with all of your accusations. You have taken a whole bunch of things out of context. You probably went to Newspring once or a few times, didn't like what you heard, so you decided to go elsewhere before you truly understood the message that is being delivered. I know this because I was almost like you, I almost decided that Newspring wasn't the place for me, but through the efforts of my wife, I kept going and now I understand why things are the way they are at Newspring.
The truth is, talking about money makes people uncomfortable. Other churches don't talk about money because they don't want to make their members uncomfortable. If they did that, the church fears they would leave and ultimately the church would die. And they're right, but that's only because they've built the foundation of that church on the lie that "Everyone here is perfect and we're all just going to bask in each other's righteousness. Nobody here has financial problems, nobody here has addiction problems, nobody here has marital problems. We're all perfect, PRAISE JESUS!" If you do have those problems, you don't dare mention them to another member of your church; you'd be embarrassed, they'd be uncomfortable, and more than likely, you'd be asked to leave the church and not come back.
Newspring/Perry doesn't care about making people uncomfortable, nobody ever grew as a person or as a Christian by staying in their comfort zone. Newspring/Perry would rather you be an uncomfortable Christian on fire for Christ than a nice, lukewarm Christian who will get spit out of God's mouth because they were comfortable and stagnant.
And on a side note, to the people who claim that Newspring is only a place where people get saved and then don't have anyway of progressing from there, I'm sorry you feel that way but you need to take a more active role in your own Christianity. Seriously, do you expect someone to babysit you everyday? I've been going to Newspring for almost 5 years and I feel like I've just started growing. If you are honestly thinking, "OK, now I'm a Christian, but I don't know what to do next...", here is the answer: read your Bible everyday, get invovled with a small group/homegroup, volunteer at the church, and volunteer in the community. By the time you accomplish those steps, you'll know what you need to do next.
I don't post often, but feel led to after reading the posts in this thread over the past few days. Im troubled by many in their comments towards each other in this thread for calling themselves Christians but yet not showing love and kindness to one another. It goes without being said that no church is perfect and all have their inside politics and issues, but all churches also have their positive impact on communities in different ways.
I grew up in a small town in the lowcountry attending a traditional church where for the most part as a child I simply remember sleeping in my grandmother's lap during the sermon. I served in the church as a child and even was a summer youth leader when I was home from college. I knew no other ways in church than how I had grown up, except for our summer camps which brought me closer to God than any other time due to the style of worship. Coming back from church camp myself and the youth group was always on fire and wanting to serve more, but when we returned it was to the same old routine in the traditional church.
My first experience hearing Perry Noble was at FCA at Clemson in the mid 2000's and I did not particularly care for him personally as I believed that many issues that he spoke on were simply to have a better outward appearance. A few years later one of my roommates was serving at the church and invited me to attend simply because I never had plugged into a single church in the Clemson area as I would just bounce around to different services.
I say all of that to say this I'm happy that I was invited and gave Newspring a second look. The home groups that I have been a part of and the challenges put forth by the different pastors in the church have helped foster a close personal relationship with the Lord that I did not have to this level in the past. I don't put my hope in Newspring and Perry Noble, but in the Lord. God will judge my pastor and I don't believe it is my place to critique his every move he will be held accountable in the end and he is a human being just like the rest of us ? he is going to sin. I do tithe because in my heart I believe that I would be robbing God not bringing him my first tithe because it is already all his. I am only giving back what He has provided to me.
I am a high school football coach and teacher and can't count the number of students and players that have found the Lord through Newspring Church. Children that will not talk to their parents, but have volunteers that love them and mentor them in the church that I am so thankful for. So to answer the question of do I find it alarming that 9% of the budget went to missions, I dont. 24% went to facility upgrades which will lead to even more people finding Christ. 31 % went to staffing which fostered environment to attract those that are far away from God, and 36% went to operating and creating a place of community that welcomes all. So I believe 100% of my tithe is going towards doing the Lord's work.
Finally if anyone would like to attend a Sunday, I would love to have you go with my family and we will even treat you to lunch as long as you can find something on the 2 for 20 at Chilis or are ok with a burger at Fuddruckers remember I am on a teacher salary. I attended a Newspring Easter service last night so that I could attend Sunday church with my family back in the lowcountry, but any week after this please send me a message and would be happy to have you join us. This week I pray that those looking for hope in a single church or pastor, will realize they will all fail you at some point in the end I hope you find hope in the fact that the tomb is empty. Happy Easter to all!
I grew up in a small town in the lowcountry attending a traditional church where for the most part as a child I simply remember sleeping in my grandmother's lap during the sermon. I served in the church as a child and even was a summer youth leader when I was home from college. I knew no other ways in church than how I had grown up, except for our summer camps which brought me closer to God than any other time due to the style of worship. Coming back from church camp myself and the youth group was always on fire and wanting to serve more, but when we returned it was to the same old routine in the traditional church.
My first experience hearing Perry Noble was at FCA at Clemson in the mid 2000's and I did not particularly care for him personally as I believed that many issues that he spoke on were simply to have a better outward appearance. A few years later one of my roommates was serving at the church and invited me to attend simply because I never had plugged into a single church in the Clemson area as I would just bounce around to different services.
I say all of that to say this I'm happy that I was invited and gave Newspring a second look. The home groups that I have been a part of and the challenges put forth by the different pastors in the church have helped foster a close personal relationship with the Lord that I did not have to this level in the past. I don't put my hope in Newspring and Perry Noble, but in the Lord. God will judge my pastor and I don't believe it is my place to critique his every move he will be held accountable in the end and he is a human being just like the rest of us ? he is going to sin. I do tithe because in my heart I believe that I would be robbing God not bringing him my first tithe because it is already all his. I am only giving back what He has provided to me.
I am a high school football coach and teacher and can't count the number of students and players that have found the Lord through Newspring Church. Children that will not talk to their parents, but have volunteers that love them and mentor them in the church that I am so thankful for. So to answer the question of do I find it alarming that 9% of the budget went to missions, I dont. 24% went to facility upgrades which will lead to even more people finding Christ. 31 % went to staffing which fostered environment to attract those that are far away from God, and 36% went to operating and creating a place of community that welcomes all. So I believe 100% of my tithe is going towards doing the Lord's work.
Finally if anyone would like to attend a Sunday, I would love to have you go with my family and we will even treat you to lunch as long as you can find something on the 2 for 20 at Chilis or are ok with a burger at Fuddruckers remember I am on a teacher salary. I attended a Newspring Easter service last night so that I could attend Sunday church with my family back in the lowcountry, but any week after this please send me a message and would be happy to have you join us. This week I pray that those looking for hope in a single church or pastor, will realize they will all fail you at some point in the end I hope you find hope in the fact that the tomb is empty. Happy Easter to all!
Excellent post, cukick and thanks for your honesty. But you mention that you firmly believe that 100% of your tithes are being put to good use but how do you know for certain? Are you just going off blind faith? Or have you made an honest effort to hold those in power accountable of your hard-earned money. Do you do the same with your employer and school system? I should hope so!
the "big churches" are taking a lot of heat here.........the prosperity gospel goes against basically every teaching in the new testament....
listen to what Matt Chandler (who operates near Joel Osteen-ville).
I am a christ follower but do not care for Perry's teachings on finances and definitely do not care for Joel Osteen and those who seem to euate happiness, comfort and financial stability to God's blessings.
Matt Chandler on the prosperity gospel
listen to what Matt Chandler (who operates near Joel Osteen-ville).
I am a christ follower but do not care for Perry's teachings on finances and definitely do not care for Joel Osteen and those who seem to euate happiness, comfort and financial stability to God's blessings.
Matt Chandler on the prosperity gospel
John Piper also has some interesting thoughts on wealth vs. salt of the earth
"prosperity gospel is no gospel, because it offers people what they want in the flesh."
John Piper crushes it
"prosperity gospel is no gospel, because it offers people what they want in the flesh."
John Piper crushes it
John Piper also has some interesting thoughts on wealth vs. salt of the earth
"prosperity gospel is no gospel, because it offers people what they want in the flesh."
John Piper crushes it
"prosperity gospel is no gospel, because it offers people what they want in the flesh."
John Piper crushes it
lol Joel Osteen
I don't know a ton about Driscol, I know he is a lightning rod in some ways, but I like how he wrecks Osteen here
Joel Osteen is a heretic
I don't know a ton about Driscol, I know he is a lightning rod in some ways, but I like how he wrecks Osteen here
Joel Osteen is a heretic
It's amazing how this thread has grown since I last posted a few days ago. It's also amazing how many people on this website have no clue what they are talking about, yet they try their best to convince the gullible otherwise. What disappoints me, though, is to see so called "Christians" put down another church that is reaching thousands for Jesus. I, and any real Christian, would never say those things about another church, even if that church isn't the one that's for me and the one that I attend. I thank God for churches everywhere that preach from the Bible and bring people to Christ. That's okay though. We will keep preaching the gospel and doing everything short of sin to bring people to Christ. 75 salvations at our Easter service last night, and I praise God for that. Carry on and Happy Easter! I'm done with this thread.
"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." ~ Romans 5:6-8 NIV
"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." ~ Romans 5:6-8 NIV
SWU, I think I was the first to respond to original post yesterday. Unbelievable what this has turned into. I am not speaking for Trading. What is it that specifically makes you want to give to your church? I would hope that it is the admonition of the Scriptures that we should "bring the tithe into the storehouse". People ITT don't understand that the facilities and everything that goes on in a service at NS is designed to bring people to the saving grace of our Lord and Savior. This is documented by the hundreds, even thousands of people across this state that have done this since NS started as a ministry. I know for a fact that Perry only admonishes the members,(owners) to tithe and give. He specifically tells visitors that by no means should they feel compelled to give anything when the tithes and offerings are given during the service. Malachi 3:8-10 - Luke 6: 37-38.
Yes, that is a start. But I think the concern is, if those 11,983 people are giving to NewSpring, only 9% of that money is going to missions/aiding the needy. It is great to have more people knowing Christ, but if they aren't speading the word more than recruiting and home groups, is it really following the example Christ set?
Look Mr. Clemson, I started this thread and my whole point was not to mock the church (although I admit to find some humor in some of the militant stances made here) but to figure our the fascination with this church. I've also revealed the financials of the church I attend in Columbia, which is a very detailed financial statement that is easily attainable online in just a few short clicks.
I've YET to see anything other than blind trust coming from the "owners" here about how their funds are utilized. I also, find the fact that you guys get angry when someone questions that to be revealing as well.
Hmmm...you obviously haven't read what Paul wrote to the church in Corinth, or Ephesus. Churches, and especially those that lead them, most definitely should be held accountable. Leaders are responsible for their flock, and the example they give.
I think it's 100% biblical for me or any other Christian to voice our concerns about a church that may not be operating like the early church and the way Jesus intended.
Like I said earlier in this thread, nothing wrong with living comfortably, but IMO a pastor living in a $400,000+ house looks more like the pharisees then the early leaders of the church.
If Newspring's message to the masses is really "tithe 10% so your kid won't get sick and your car won't break down", which is EXACTLY what your founding preacher said in the video clip above, then you're doing those masses and yourselves a great disservice. To say nothing of the myriad of accusations from separate sources about what happens to the 10% once its given. Anybody who would preach that is missing the point so much thats it would be comical if it weren't dangerous.
