Bro do not trust a 4chan screenshot
FPOTUS Trump attempted assassination…
- Thread starter 24TIGER
- Start date
Unfortunately the Secret Service has been a mess for a while. Tons of scandals, corruption, and incompetence. For instance back in Obama's first term I believe it took them ages to realize someone was firing a gun at the White House and then 4 days to realize the White House had been hit
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My only problem with this explanation is there were no buildings seen in the overhead image of the site beyond the set of buildings the would be assassin was on. Other than a water tower. So what exactly were the counter snipers watching other than those buildings?
Seems likely to me that those buildings were supposed to be secured by local LE or or another unit, and they were likely scanning for the truly long distant sniper threats.
There were some buildings adjacent to the rally stage I think. I saw a satellite picture of it
@24TIGER what is the procedure counter snipers go through before they eliminate a threat? If they see a threat can they immediately act on their own? Do they have to get permission from a superior officer before taking the shot?
Its a 4chan screenshot man
I don’t trust the FBI. I do however think there was a serious breakdown in security yesterday. Cannot comprehend how that roof was not secure and shooter got up there, was seen by people and he was still able to fire shots.
I know y’all have a lot of questions (I’ve received more than my fair share).
I have as many questions as I have answers, so it’s been a struggle.
I’ll try to answer as many as I can, as soon as possible.
Sorry for any delay. Going to be a process.
Just thinking that it would be more efficient in one thread.
Thanks....both for your service to this country and putting up this offer of solid, informed info.
My initial reaction was that the SS sniper froze. Almost like he couldn't believe what he was seeing. His movements looked jerky and panicked when he rose before the shots... which is not what they teach in sniper school. Full disclosure I've never been to sniper school, but I'm good friends with a heavily decorated delta sniper and he felt the same as being a strong possibility.
Regardless of the variables, the bottom line is he froze - for whatever reason. The reason is irrelevant. He had one job.
More at fault, though, would be the failure to not have that roof covered in the first place. There were what 6 small buildings in that field? Failure started at the top. That sniper just caught the heat by being on camera.
Regardless of the variables, the bottom line is he froze - for whatever reason. The reason is irrelevant. He had one job.
More at fault, though, would be the failure to not have that roof covered in the first place. There were what 6 small buildings in that field? Failure started at the top. That sniper just caught the heat by being on camera.
Unaware of what? That it's freaking insane to think any of that message is legitimate?
im hopeful they dont REALLY believe that....if so, then wow
I see your point too. The thread is saying their zone of surveillance was just a lot further out than where the shooter was. It seems to me like the counter sniper just happens to catch something that made him double take, and then significantly lower the trajectory of his rifle, which would make sense to target something much closer than where you were supposed to be surveiling. What other zone he would have been watching, I couldn't say.
And to be clear, I didn't want to give the impression that I was saying that is definitely what happened, just that it sounded a lot more plausible than "USSS had him in his sights and didn't shoot."
Let’s be more clear, there were what 6 small to moderate size buildings in the area? The one in question was the distance from the bottom of the Hill to the West Endzone and no one, no one had it covered.
Has it been discussed where the man who lost his life and the two injured citizens were located in the crowd?
I'm very curious about this too. If the picture of the bullet whizzing by Trump's head is real, and it seems to be even though I don't know how, it would seem to be in the area to his immediate left from the perspective of him facing up to the podium.
I also think it sounds like a second round of screams coming from that area, but who knows how that sound could get distorted.
i think the counter-sniper got a message in his ear to re-direct his focus area. that would explain the head jerk.
this is not to excuse the blatant failure to protect the president.
i believe the greenville/easley/simpsonville police department could have done a better planning job than this.
it was INEXCUSEABLE to have an UNPROTECTED roof 150 yards away.
i would like to know if this level of incompetence has happened at other recent fpotus events.
It was stated somewhere (on tv) that the effective kill zone limit for an AR is 600 - 700 yards. While certain rifles with trained shooters can certainly shoot farther, It is hard to imagine the CS’s were looking much beyond that.
I am a hunter and use a 30-06 with a powerful scope. When I am zoomed out looking 300-400 yards out, you can’t find anything close very easily. I would have to totally re-adjust my scope to come close to finding something just 130 yards away, it would be hard with out looking up and getting a bead and even then it wouldn’t be a sure thing to drop the hairs on it quickly.
That thread also addresses that that building was likely in the 2nd perimeter, which would have largely been the responsibility of local law enforcement that USSS contracts with. If what that person says is accurate, the breakdown in security happened, it sounds like, because local law enforcement just didn't do a good job.
I'm not offering any answers. Still tons of info to come out.
Good info. I just want people to hear what could be very plausible explanations for things before assuming the USSS was in on something. I'm worried the online edgelords are going to try and identify and harass the men on that CS team.
No expert, but my opinion as well. No way that kid should have been allowed to position himself in that location with an AR I don’t see any way to justify that. The SS might have gone a great job after Trump was shot but completely blew the surveillance and the proper response before shots were fired.
#1 This a fail for the USSS in that FPOTUS Trump was lightly wounded (barely escaping MUCH WORSE), one man in the audience lost his life, and two more were critically wounded.
#2 Ultimately, the USSS did accomplish the mission of safely covering and evacuating FPOTUS Trump AND neutralizing the threat (sniper). Very close to LOSING the game.
There will be a thorough review and investigation, and someone is very likely to lose their job(s) at the USSS.
First time since March 30, 1981 that shots were fired at a current POTUS or FPOTUS...43 years is a long time, and that didn't happen by accident. "Not on my watch"...we were known to say.
How did this 20 year old psychotic get through the outer security perimeter AND get to the roof of the building... SO VERY close to FPOTUS Trump's stage? I've no clue.
The inherent problem with large outdoor venues like this (I've worked HUNDREDS of them) is just that....they are LARGE OUTDOOR venues that are nearly impossible 100% safely secure.
Add to the fact that most of the "security posts" held on the outer perimeter are held by either local or state law enforcement, that have little to no direct communications with the USSS shift agents or tactical units. You will see "comms" or lack thereof mentioned again.
The USSS is so lightly staffed (3,000 or so agents world wide) that they can't perform their mission without help from local, state and other federal law enforcement agencies. Add to the fact that this was ANOTHER campaign stop in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania, and you have a recipe for disaster.
To illustrate, I know on one of FPOTUS Trump's recent visits to South Carolina...SCDNR guys held outer perimeter posts...no disrespect, but you can see where I'm going with this
When the Presidential Protective Division (PPD) sends out advance teams...they come from The White House. Agents that are permanently assigned to PPD for up to 6 years .
Agents conducting site advances on the "campaign" for FPOTUS Trump might have less than a year on the job, or be so long in the tooth that they just go through the motions. Suffice to say that it's probably not the best product...and that might very well be what we witnessed yesterday.
We also knew as USSS agents, that if someone is willing to die in order to assassinate the POTUS or VPOTUS, it would be very difficult to stop.
Countersniper (CS) teams: 2 man elements staffed by USSS Uniformed Division technicians (not USSS GS-1811 special agents). I worked with the USSS CS teams for years. Extremely professional and detail oriented. Some of the best snipers in the world (many with military backgrounds) . As you can imagine, they have a tendency to operate on their own, so "comms" between USSS agents and USSS CS could certainly be improved.
I haven't listened to ANY of the theories spewed by so called "experts" from the FBI or other retired USSS agents, because almost none of them have the experience level or expertise that I possess. True.
Breaking it down to the easiest of terms...
A) Massive security breach of the outer perimeter. Unacceptable.
B) There is always a CS response team (comprised of 2 USSS special agents) that are in direct communication with the CS teams (Call sign Hercules). Certainly a critical breakdown in communications there. Appears that by the time CS spotted the sniper, it was way too late to have agents respond to the roof...which is their only mission.
C) The shift agents around FPOTUS Trump did a GREAT job in FIRST covering and THEN evacuating the FPOTUS. CAT (call sign Hawkeye) also responded in seconds form their staging area (out of public view but very close by). CAT is the highly trained and heavily armed tactical unit that provides support to the shift, and also responds to sniper fire, multiple attackers, RPGs, etc. Top 1% of the USSS....which leads me to this...
There have been discussions and comments on this site about the appearance and quality of certain USSS agents that were protecting FPOTUS Trump.
This is not a new problem for the USSS. I saw it almost 30 years ago on PPD. DEI was alive and well in the USSS even then, and we all paid the price. I was passed over for promotions and positions while others (that possessed different traits than I ) were moved up the ladder.
I persevered and won out in the end...but anyone with 1 eye can see that the USSS has some issues to deal with. Not saying that this was the cause of the catastrophe yesterday....but it doesn't help.
I had a conversation with then Vice President Biden in his office on Air Force II.
He asked me "Billy, why is the President's detail having all of these problems, and we don't have any issues here on my detail"?
"Well sir " I replied.. I can give you answer, but it's not politically correct"
VPOTUS " No, no...yeah go ahead"
I said " Do you realize that on our working shift today, we have three former Marine Corps infantry officers, two that have been in combat? Do you know why they're not on PPD"?
VPOTUS " No...why"?
"Because they look like you and me"...
His response "Hey...I get it ...I get it"
The American people deserve better.
I hope this answers some of your questions. I'm hoping I can do a podcast with @Larry_Williams and go much more in depth.
#2 Ultimately, the USSS did accomplish the mission of safely covering and evacuating FPOTUS Trump AND neutralizing the threat (sniper). Very close to LOSING the game.
There will be a thorough review and investigation, and someone is very likely to lose their job(s) at the USSS.
First time since March 30, 1981 that shots were fired at a current POTUS or FPOTUS...43 years is a long time, and that didn't happen by accident. "Not on my watch"...we were known to say.
How did this 20 year old psychotic get through the outer security perimeter AND get to the roof of the building... SO VERY close to FPOTUS Trump's stage? I've no clue.
The inherent problem with large outdoor venues like this (I've worked HUNDREDS of them) is just that....they are LARGE OUTDOOR venues that are nearly impossible 100% safely secure.
Add to the fact that most of the "security posts" held on the outer perimeter are held by either local or state law enforcement, that have little to no direct communications with the USSS shift agents or tactical units. You will see "comms" or lack thereof mentioned again.
The USSS is so lightly staffed (3,000 or so agents world wide) that they can't perform their mission without help from local, state and other federal law enforcement agencies. Add to the fact that this was ANOTHER campaign stop in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania, and you have a recipe for disaster.
To illustrate, I know on one of FPOTUS Trump's recent visits to South Carolina...SCDNR guys held outer perimeter posts...no disrespect, but you can see where I'm going with this
When the Presidential Protective Division (PPD) sends out advance teams...they come from The White House. Agents that are permanently assigned to PPD for up to 6 years .
Agents conducting site advances on the "campaign" for FPOTUS Trump might have less than a year on the job, or be so long in the tooth that they just go through the motions. Suffice to say that it's probably not the best product...and that might very well be what we witnessed yesterday.
We also knew as USSS agents, that if someone is willing to die in order to assassinate the POTUS or VPOTUS, it would be very difficult to stop.
Countersniper (CS) teams: 2 man elements staffed by USSS Uniformed Division technicians (not USSS GS-1811 special agents). I worked with the USSS CS teams for years. Extremely professional and detail oriented. Some of the best snipers in the world (many with military backgrounds) . As you can imagine, they have a tendency to operate on their own, so "comms" between USSS agents and USSS CS could certainly be improved.
I haven't listened to ANY of the theories spewed by so called "experts" from the FBI or other retired USSS agents, because almost none of them have the experience level or expertise that I possess. True.
Breaking it down to the easiest of terms...
A) Massive security breach of the outer perimeter. Unacceptable.
B) There is always a CS response team (comprised of 2 USSS special agents) that are in direct communication with the CS teams (Call sign Hercules). Certainly a critical breakdown in communications there. Appears that by the time CS spotted the sniper, it was way too late to have agents respond to the roof...which is their only mission.
C) The shift agents around FPOTUS Trump did a GREAT job in FIRST covering and THEN evacuating the FPOTUS. CAT (call sign Hawkeye) also responded in seconds form their staging area (out of public view but very close by). CAT is the highly trained and heavily armed tactical unit that provides support to the shift, and also responds to sniper fire, multiple attackers, RPGs, etc. Top 1% of the USSS....which leads me to this...
There have been discussions and comments on this site about the appearance and quality of certain USSS agents that were protecting FPOTUS Trump.
This is not a new problem for the USSS. I saw it almost 30 years ago on PPD. DEI was alive and well in the USSS even then, and we all paid the price. I was passed over for promotions and positions while others (that possessed different traits than I ) were moved up the ladder.
I persevered and won out in the end...but anyone with 1 eye can see that the USSS has some issues to deal with. Not saying that this was the cause of the catastrophe yesterday....but it doesn't help.
I had a conversation with then Vice President Biden in his office on Air Force II.
He asked me "Billy, why is the President's detail having all of these problems, and we don't have any issues here on my detail"?
"Well sir " I replied.. I can give you answer, but it's not politically correct"
VPOTUS " No, no...yeah go ahead"
I said " Do you realize that on our working shift today, we have three former Marine Corps infantry officers, two that have been in combat? Do you know why they're not on PPD"?
VPOTUS " No...why"?
"Because they look like you and me"...
His response "Hey...I get it ...I get it"
The American people deserve better.
I hope this answers some of your questions. I'm hoping I can do a podcast with @Larry_Williams and go much more in depth.
Not going to ask about ROE because it’s classified.
Interested in what was behind the shooter in the distance. Looks like pizzeria and family sports center. Surely populated. Does that matter if the shot is poor?
It doesn’t look like an easy shot given the shooter behind the roof ridge.
No reason not to dominate that roof from the start. Countersnipers likely given a near impossible situation.
Cot dam. Thank you.
I will do the podcast. I will absolutely ask better questions than Larry.
Looking at these aerials... where could he possibly have been looking beyond that? I might be wrong with the limited photo evidence, but as far as I can tell from this photo the shooter was on the only roof in that direction that had a clear shot. Anything beyond that building would've been blocked by that front building.
If he was indeed trying to ID the guy before engaging, then that's an inexcusable lack of prep done on the part of the CO - to have a sniper team not knowing the locations of assets in the perimeter- or even on the roof, no less -would be unforgivable.
I don't think the sniper did anything wrong for nefarious reasons. He was just a cog in a wheel that was very clearly broken from the start.
Let's assume that he was sighting further out from that first building - which I'm not sure what he would be looking at other than tree tops or blue sky, but you can definitely see him reacting in an erratic manner before the shots went off. So he knew something was off -- at the very least you'd think he call it in immediately since he didn't have a clear shot. That's assuming he was looking beyond the front building. If he did have eyes on but couldn't confirm ID -- at the very least you'd think he would signal an alert immediately.
I honestly think he was in disbelief of what he was seeing, perhaps combined with a version of the factors listed above, and he froze.
At the end of the day, however, the fault ultimately lies with the person in charge that let the situation present itself in the first place.
Thanks for the detail and insight Billy.
This one really gets me -
“How did this 20 year old psychotic get through the outer security perimeter AND get to the roof of the building... SO VERY close to FPOTUS Trump's stage?”
As always thank you for your service!
This one really gets me -
“How did this 20 year old psychotic get through the outer security perimeter AND get to the roof of the building... SO VERY close to FPOTUS Trump's stage?”
As always thank you for your service!
Is there not a codeword that tells everyone to cover the detail immediately and evac? So if someone were to get an indication of a threat, they say something like, "GERONIMO, GERONIMO, GERONIMO!", followed by the nature and position of the threat?
Of course what I'm leading to is, how do you enter an OODA loop on a threat and not simultaneously initiate a call to cover the detail?
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Truly long distance snipers... that would've had to shoot through that first building to hit him? I mean, maybe there are taller buildings much further back, but from the limited photos I've seen it would've been dang hard to have a shot on him through that first building if you were far behind it
I think they were in the stands underneath the screen that was stage right
Appreciate the insight @24TIGER
Any chance the USSS and local law enforcement split the responsibility for that building and someone didn’t understand their part of that assignment?
Thanks. My question is why weren't USSS and/or cops listening to the civilians who said someone is on the roof. Wouldn't someone communicate that and get POTUS out of there?
The fact that you have to say this in 2024 is either 1 of 2 things, I'm getting really old and the new age of the internet has forgotten what 4chan is, or people are just being silly geese.
Thank you for the super indepth response. I would greatly look forward to listening to that podcast.
