The main reason that is an issue is because the agent in front of Trump was so short. Otherwise, the only part of Trump that would have been exposed would have been Trump's raised fist. The fact that an agent that short is in that position is an epic failure, regardless of the policy goals attempted to be achieved to put such a short person in that position. That is what you get when you let objectives other than protection of the asset take precedence. Six or more men the size of Billy D would be the appropriate personnel. As everyone with sense well knows.
FPOTUS Trump attempted assassination…
- Thread starter 24TIGER
- Start date
Oh, I have no doubt dealing with him in that kind of environment has to be a total nightmare.
I’m not arguing that. But the protected person is supposed to follow instructions and he wasn’t fully compliant. I’m not blaming him either. Crap happens in an incident like that. But the SS plans include the person they are protecting listening to them.
The other side that you are pointing out the detail needs to be able to force him to security. So you are not wrong.
Well, as a lover of nice shoes, I respect the fact that he had the presence of mind to retrieve his shoes.
Quite conceivable if nefarious intent is presumed.
The sniper is clearly looking well beyond the building the shooter was on given how much they had to drop their sight line to neutralize him. At least based on the video footage.
Those who are in charge of securing those nearby buildings are the ones who should be rightfully questioned as to their motives.
Understood. But the asset had a bullet graze his head a few tens of seconds before. The major assets being protected are typically going to be alphas of alphas. Expecting them to be docile and compliant is not reality. Especially seconds after literally dodging a bullet. And having anyone that close around the asset who cannot largely pick up the asset and carry him to safety is another epic fail. What if Trump had actually needed to be carried.? We have lost our minds in this country when we cannot identify the primary objective and design our systems to accomplish them because we want to cater to all kinds of other, subservient objectives.
It's a bad look to me as a taxpayer. Trump had blood on his face after what soundedlike gunfire, so a likely assassination attempt.
I have no idea what SS is trained to do, but seeing any part of Trump, particularly his head because he's a tall dude and even if the right instinct, an outstretched arm up from short people isn't protection de facto. I would not have let him stop but kept him low until the car was closer and then shoved him inside. That's what I'd do for my family.
Trump should have been manhandled for his safety because there could have been other shooters.
Sure Social Media is a hellscape, but who has been pushing social media in that direction over the last few election cycles? Mainstream Media (from both sides of the field) has definitely had a hand in the toxic dumpster fire that Social Media has become
@24TIGER specifically asked you nut jobs to keep politics out of this. Ard and his moderator also warned that political comments would be deleted. Stop crying, you losers. It isn’t censorship. It is honoring the wishes of the man many would like insight from. He isn’t obligated to answer our questions. He is doing this as a courtesy to his fellow Tigers. He is allowed to ask that you take political opinions and conspiracy theories to another thread.
I assume that was for the AR response team that show up on the stage walking in the direction of the shooter shortly after Trump is covered by the plain clothes shield team
Correct. “”Hawkeye” is the call sign for the CAT Team.
Heavily armed and trained tactical unit that works in support of the “shift”.
The agents that responded in tactical gear, seconds after shots were fired.
I was an operator, Team Leader and later served as the Special Agent in Charge of the Teams.
CAT agents are what everyone “thinks” USSS agents actually are…but they are only the top 1%…
Because the USSS is a compromised tool used for political ends, just like every other agency. Check the farking diversity boxes and ignore who can actually get the job done.
47 gonna be coming out with some absolute Units now. Not these fat they/them they had on detail yesterday.
@24TIGER Tough day and tough crowd. It is just too difficult for people to put the politics aside.
I would love to understand what might have been going through the various SS personnel’s minds during this event. You can practice and practice, and while that helps, I am not sure anything truly prepares you for it until you are going though it for real.
I am thankful for the many men and women who serve in the SS, I know you were a career agent and I am sure it is tough to see your friends and colleagues be put under the microscope.
A comment and then a few questions:
I view this is a failure, simply because an untrained 20 year old was able to access a large roof top to within 130 yards of a protectee and squeeze off multiple rounds that killed one and injured at least 4 others (including Trump). All evidence suggests there were at least two head shots that missed Trump by anywhere from a few inches to less than a half inch. Either would have likely killed him. Had that happened yesterday, I dread to think of what today might have looked like.
What the root cause or causes of this failure was will need to be determined and I have no doubt that the SS will figure that out. I don’t think for a minute anyone in the SS wanted this to happen and most if not all would give their life to protect Trump. I do suspect the level or resource and personnel is likely part of the issue, just a suspicion and I have no proof of that. There simply are too many people saying they have sources that numerous requests have been made.
Every organization inside of government is political, most outside of government have politics, it is the reality of humans dealing with other humans. There was a push by House Democrats to pull protective service from Trump earlier this year, it was a politics play, I get how it works, but in hindsight, I suspect there are many regrets about that move today.
I wonder if the politics of optics got the better of the SS Director in this regard and there was resistance to give any larger of a detail than the minimum would require. Like I said this will all come out in the wash, I have no problem giving the SS leadership the benefit of the doubt at this juncture.
Questions:
1. Is onsite radio communication recorded as standard protocol? In other words does an audio recording exist between the two CAT personnel on the roof of the barn and whomever they may have been communicating with?
2. Would a CAT sniper member have the green-light to engage a threat he/she deemed imminent or would permission need to be obtained? If they need permission, would the sound of gun shots change that protocol?
3. Is there a minimum amount of time the SS needs for an advance team to properly vet a venue and develop a security plan? In general how much time is needed?
4. Given a near miss occured, is there a standard protocol for the detail that protects Trump? Example, when a local police officer is involved in a shooting, most agencies will place the officer on desk duty pending a review, it is protocol and doesn’t indicate anything one way or the other about the merrit of the shooting. Does the SS have something similar?
Again, thank you for your service to our country and to all the men and women who ware a uniform in service to this Great Nation.
I would love to understand what might have been going through the various SS personnel’s minds during this event. You can practice and practice, and while that helps, I am not sure anything truly prepares you for it until you are going though it for real.
I am thankful for the many men and women who serve in the SS, I know you were a career agent and I am sure it is tough to see your friends and colleagues be put under the microscope.
A comment and then a few questions:
I view this is a failure, simply because an untrained 20 year old was able to access a large roof top to within 130 yards of a protectee and squeeze off multiple rounds that killed one and injured at least 4 others (including Trump). All evidence suggests there were at least two head shots that missed Trump by anywhere from a few inches to less than a half inch. Either would have likely killed him. Had that happened yesterday, I dread to think of what today might have looked like.
What the root cause or causes of this failure was will need to be determined and I have no doubt that the SS will figure that out. I don’t think for a minute anyone in the SS wanted this to happen and most if not all would give their life to protect Trump. I do suspect the level or resource and personnel is likely part of the issue, just a suspicion and I have no proof of that. There simply are too many people saying they have sources that numerous requests have been made.
Every organization inside of government is political, most outside of government have politics, it is the reality of humans dealing with other humans. There was a push by House Democrats to pull protective service from Trump earlier this year, it was a politics play, I get how it works, but in hindsight, I suspect there are many regrets about that move today.
I wonder if the politics of optics got the better of the SS Director in this regard and there was resistance to give any larger of a detail than the minimum would require. Like I said this will all come out in the wash, I have no problem giving the SS leadership the benefit of the doubt at this juncture.
Questions:
1. Is onsite radio communication recorded as standard protocol? In other words does an audio recording exist between the two CAT personnel on the roof of the barn and whomever they may have been communicating with?
2. Would a CAT sniper member have the green-light to engage a threat he/she deemed imminent or would permission need to be obtained? If they need permission, would the sound of gun shots change that protocol?
3. Is there a minimum amount of time the SS needs for an advance team to properly vet a venue and develop a security plan? In general how much time is needed?
4. Given a near miss occured, is there a standard protocol for the detail that protects Trump? Example, when a local police officer is involved in a shooting, most agencies will place the officer on desk duty pending a review, it is protocol and doesn’t indicate anything one way or the other about the merrit of the shooting. Does the SS have something similar?
Again, thank you for your service to our country and to all the men and women who ware a uniform in service to this Great Nation.
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CAT is not the Countersnipers
Countersnipers (CS) are Uniformed Division (UD) officers/technicians; call sign “Hercules”
They train almost exclusively on their own and work with USSS agents during “advance work” of sites.
Like many CAT operators… a good many CS technicians have military experience.
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Plan clothes members in the audience. No expert by any means here. Just first thought
My guess as to the reason why Trump wasn't removed from the stage the moment a threat was reported is you don't want to unnecessarily cause a panic. If you pull Trump off that stage suddenly in the middle of the rally, and it turns out the threat is a false alarm, you've disrupted everything for basically nothing, and you run the risk of putting the crowd into a panic unnecessarily. Seems to me they were likely still confirming whether or not the threat was legitimate.
I've never worked on security detail for anything, but I've had several jobs where I've had to respond to emergency situations around large groups of people, and the training for these situations is to always remain calm and to keep the public as calm as possible. Not saying this is what happened, but this would be my guess as to why the SS didn't remove Trump before a threat had been confirmed.
And I'm not saying this wasn't a massively blown assignment. Seems there was a big breakdown of communication that allowed the shooter to scale a roof, get LOS on Trump, and get a shot off. But I am saying (from a layperson's perspective) it seems the SS responded as they were trained to respond based on the information they had.
Do you not agree that this was a massive breakdown or failure that a non military/trained 20 year old with his Dads AR scaled a roof 130 yards from the President in pure daylight and shot and hit our President and killed another? I do not agree that they took care of business yesterday. Only reason he’s not dead today is the kid “missed” the kill shot by millimeters. This is a total F up.
Fact is, while there were breakdowns in security that allowed a sniper to scale a roof and get a shot off on Trump, SS did successfully eliminated the threat in short order and get Trump out of there alive.
So in spite of all the fair criticism that is everywhere right now, SS did do their job.
So in spite of all the fair criticism that is everywhere right now, SS did do their job.
I think you are telling me that counter snipers (CS) and CAT (Counter Assault Team) are not one and the same? Is that correct?
Yes. It really is that simple. Excellent summary.
The only time it matters what colors you wear:
- college football game
- European football match
😂
I'm not sure if it has the Billy D seal of approval, but I'd highly recommend Clint Hill's book, Five Presidents, to anyone interested in learning about some of the challenges the USSS faces (albeit from one man's perspective) and a little more about some of our mid century presidents.
Hill was one of the men in the Kennedy motorcade, so I feel like his experience and insight might be interesting to folks at this moment
Hill was one of the men in the Kennedy motorcade, so I feel like his experience and insight might be interesting to folks at this moment
^^^This one^^^
The decision to not increase the detail in light of the heightened sense of threat assassination is the conspiracy. They created the environment for the gunman to get that close. It's the Kennedy Conspiracy in reverse. In my view, they probably knew making those decisions would increase the opportunity for a lone gunman to act like a nut....and probably hoped it would succeed.
DEI, asked and answered. Not everyone is perfect for every job. No way, no how.
The OP asked for politics to be kept out, and I get it. But everyone thinking that not bringing politics or other personal believes are going to solve problems, is wrong.
The cancel culture has led to the MSM and that is the single biggest thread to America right now. Look at all the football talk. No one is convincing the other of Dabo's view of the portal one way or the other.
But it's the venting of ideas that keep civility. They are allowed to vent. It's why Twitter is a real good idea. Not everything is true, and peoples right to The Bill of Rights should be protected above all in American govt...
Let this sink in, the shooter was the distance from the bottom of the hill to ~the goal post in front of the West Endzone on a roof which was essentially a raised platform. That was how close the shooter was.
question: since the area where the shooter was is outside the restricted venue---does that mean anyone could have just showed up at that location carrying a rifle?? in other words, 40 people with rifles could have just legally stood around at 100 yards away from trump's stage???
100%. Getting shot at or not I’m not losing my Gucci loafers.
Check out this thread. It explains it in a very plausible way. I thought the exact same thing you did until I read through this. Nothing political in that link, promise.
What did that have to do with my question? None of my question was about politics.
You mean manhandled while the cute young lady half his size is wrapped around him like a waist pool floaty? Don’t get me wrong, she could probably kick my ass- that’s a low bar btw. She was sacrificing herself for the cause and thats next level shit. God bless her.
What I heard was a collapsible ladder. Can't confirm that though. Some pics on Twitter looked like might be true.
In the BBC video I posted earlier in the thread the attendee shared there was a ladder leaning against the building. Some stupid shit.
Can’t argue with that they’ve played a part in it. But I don’t see any of them blatantly fabricating images though. You can’t exactly put those on the same level.
