I’ll take the haha as a yes I’ve got you booked for Wednesday at 8 @24TIGER looking forward to it
Do you think any heads will roll over this and if so, will we know about them?I know y’all have a lot of questions (I’ve received more than my fair share).
I have as many questions as I have answers, so it’s been a struggle.
I’ll try to answer as many as I can, as soon as possible.
Sorry for any delay. Going to be a process.
Just thinking that it would be more efficient in one thread.
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Love and respect and appreciate you for many reasons @24TIGER but is there evidence that the shooter was psychotic?#1 This a fail for the USSS in that FPOTUS Trump was lightly wounded (barely escaping MUCH WORSE), one man in the audience lost his life, and two more were critically wounded.
#2 Ultimately, the USSS did accomplish the mission of safely covering and evacuating FPOTUS Trump AND neutralizing the threat (sniper). Very close to LOSING the game.
There will be a thorough review and investigation, and someone is very likely to lose their job(s) at the USSS.
First time since March 30, 1981 that shots were fired at a current POTUS or FPOTUS...43 years is a long time, and that didn't happen by accident. "Not on my watch"...we were known to say.
How did this 20 year old psychotic get through the outer security perimeter AND get to the roof of the building... SO VERY close to FPOTUS Trump's stage? I've no clue.
The inherent problem with large outdoor venues like this (I've worked HUNDREDS of them) is just that....they are LARGE OUTDOOR venues that are nearly impossible 100% safely secure.
Add to the fact that most of the "security posts" held on the outer perimeter are held by either local or state law enforcement, that have little to no direct communications with the USSS shift agents or tactical units. You will see "comms" or lack thereof mentioned again.
The USSS is so lightly staffed (3,000 or so agents world wide) that they can't perform their mission without help from local, state and other federal law enforcement agencies. Add to the fact that this was ANOTHER campaign stop in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania, and you have a recipe for disaster.
To illustrate, I know on one of FPOTUS Trump's recent visits to South Carolina...SCDNR guys held outer perimeter posts...no disrespect, but you can see where I'm going with this
When the Presidential Protective Division (PPD) sends out advance teams...they come from The White House. Agents that are permanently assigned to PPD for up to 6 years .
Agents conducting site advances on the "campaign" for FPOTUS Trump might have less than a year on the job, or be so long in the tooth that they just go through the motions. Suffice to say that it's probably not the best product...and that might very well be what we witnessed yesterday.
We also knew as USSS agents, that if someone is willing to die in order to assassinate the POTUS or VPOTUS, it would be very difficult to stop.
Countersniper (CS) teams: 2 man elements staffed by USSS Uniformed Division technicians (not USSS GS-1811 special agents). I worked with the USSS CS teams for years. Extremely professional and detail oriented. Some of the best snipers in the world (many with military backgrounds) . As you can imagine, they have a tendency to operate on their own, so "comms" between USSS agents and USSS CS could certainly be improved.
I haven't listened to ANY of the theories spewed by so called "experts" from the FBI or other retired USSS agents, because almost none of them have the experience level or expertise that I possess. True.
Breaking it down to the easiest of terms...
A) Massive security breach of the outer perimeter. Unacceptable.
B) There is always a CS response team (comprised of 2 USSS special agents) that are in direct communication with the CS teams (Call sign Hercules). Certainly a critical breakdown in communications there. Appears that by the time CS spotted the sniper, it was way too late to have agents respond to the roof...which is their only mission.
C) The shift agents around FPOTUS Trump did a GREAT job in FIRST covering and THEN evacuating the FPOTUS. CAT (call sign Hawkeye) also responded in seconds form their staging area (out of public view but very close by). CAT is the highly trained and heavily armed tactical unit that provides support to the shift, and also responds to sniper fire, multiple attackers, RPGs, etc. Top 1% of the USSS....which leads me to this...
There have been discussions and comments on this site about the appearance and quality of certain USSS agents that were protecting FPOTUS Trump.
This is not a new problem for the USSS. I saw it almost 30 years ago on PPD. DEI was alive and well in the USSS even then, and we all paid the price. I was passed over for promotions and positions while others (that possessed different traits than I ) were moved up the ladder.
I persevered and won out in the end...but anyone with 1 eye can see that the USSS has some issues to deal with. Not saying that this was the cause of the catastrophe yesterday....but it doesn't help.
I had a conversation with then Vice President Biden in his office on Air Force II.
He asked me "Billy, why is the President's detail having all of these problems, and we don't have any issues here on my detail"?
"Well sir " I replied.. I can give you answer, but it's not politically correct"
VPOTUS " No, no...yeah go ahead"
I said " Do you realize that on our working shift today, we have three former Marine Corps infantry officers, two that have been in combat? Do you know why they're not on PPD"?
VPOTUS " No...why"?
"Because they look like you and me"...
His response "Hey...I get it ...I get it"
The American people deserve better.
I hope this answers some of your questions. I'm hoping I can do a podcast with @Larry_Williams and go much more in depth.
Yeah…..Love you and respect you for many reasons @24TIGER but is there evidence that the shooter was psychotic?
Wow I actually did not know that agents had top secret clearance. Makes sense.Every USSS agent has a Top Secret clearance.
Later I was TS/SCI…I would receive a slightly reduced version of the Presidential Daily Brief ( PDB) in my White House office every day. (As SAIC of VPPD)
Kinda like reading the MMI on TI.
Yeah…..
He tried to assassinate a former US president and current presidential candidate over politics.
An even bigger red flag... So no one noticed him getting a ladder out of his van and carrying it over to the building? And then they call a presser, and only discuss the upcoming convention security, without taking any questions re: assassination ? Kimberly Cheatle should resign immediately...In the BBC video I posted earlier in the thread the attendee shared there was a ladder leaning against the building. Some stupid shit.
Psychotic means that he had a psychosis. I am speaking medically.Yeah…..
He tried to assassinate a former US president and current presidential candidate over politics.
Don't have to shoot, just call to immediately cover protectee..@24TIGER what is the procedure counter snipers go through before they eliminate a threat? If they see a threat can they immediately act on their own? Do they have to get permission from a superior officer before taking the shot?
Thanks sigmund. I haven’t seen his medical records. You asked for evidence. I provided. He would be on the young side for average age of onset of several common mental health issues usually coincident with psychosis. I’d say trying to kill someone over their politics is a fairly good indicator that something was more than slightly off, though.Psychotic means that he had a psychosis. I am speaking medically.
DHS is spending all of their money securing the border....Secret Service is under the Department of Homeland Security
Military funding is controlled by the Department of Defense
Both bureaucracies and that’s all that needs to be said.
I mean the SS director was in charge of Pepsi security FFS. They had to get a woman from the second best cola company to boot.I believe multiple areas of breakdowns were responsible. Remains to be seen how much information will be revealed. A few comments:
1. DEI is inconsistent with the mission. Not sure how that can be disputed. Personally I doubt that factored in too much. Just a hunch.
2. Secret service assets were not as abundant onsite yesterday as most think. I believe only 7 to 8 of the agents out of 25 were actual USSS agents. Other 15-16 agents filling the USSS roles were actually DHS agents. Not sure the implication of this, but I would feel better with USSS agents.
3. There have been statements made that the Trump campaign has requested more robust security from USSS. If true, there will be an attempt to quash that info. Trump already gets way more security than other presidential candidates do, but obviously his situation is so unique.
4. I suspect we will find general governmental incompetence played a key role in this. There will be great personal attempts to CYA.
I look forward to finding out:
1. How was there no communication between officers in the field taking reports of a potential shooter on a roof and the agents in close proximity to Trump.
2. How did the gunmen access the roof? I have seen multiple theories.
This guy contradicts what @24TIGER said above. I’ll go with the guy that was actually in the secret service and did this job.
The question was not to you and your unknown expertise @wittyone.Thanks sigmund. I haven’t seen his medical records. You asked for evidence. I provided. He would be on the young side for average age of onset of several common mental health issues usually coincident with psychosis. I’d say trying to kill someone over their politics is a fairly good indicator that something was more than slightly off, though.
Everyone has an opinion until we get some iron clad info. I find it extremely hard to believe this young person got to where he was and got shots off without being facilitated. I will continue to listen though.This guy contradicts what @24TIGER said above. I’ll go with the guy that was actually in the secret service and did this job.
Feels pretty likely to me that the event was understaffed and the local cops that were responsible for that section failed.Everyone has an opinion until we get some iron clad info. I find it extremely hard to believe this young person got to where he was and got shots off without being facilitated. I will continue to listen though.
Maybe but it's hard to reconcile the spectators seeing this person and filming him and being shown telling police about him but no action was taken.Feels pretty likely to me that the event was understaffed and the local cops that were responsible for that section failed.
I will be interested to see if they can get a motive. But I also think that this isn’t a guy recruited by some left wing government wacko to carry out something like this.
Here's a good video that gets into a lot of where I think most of us are at right now.Thanks sigmund. I haven’t seen his medical records. You asked for evidence. I provided. He would be on the young side for average age of onset of several common mental health issues usually coincident with psychosis. I’d say trying to kill someone over their politics is a fairly good indicator that something was more than slightly off, though.
Cop climbed up and saw him. Had to use both hands to hold on to the roof and the shooter threatened him so he dropped.Maybe but it's hard to reconcile the spectators seeing this person and filming him and being shown telling police about him but no action was taken.
They will come up with some excuse and we know that.Cop climbed up and saw him. Had to use both hands to hold on to the roof and the shooter threatened him so he dropped.
Yikes. I admit that seems beyond acceptable. I don’t understand how they didn’t have communication to the protection detail at the point to remove Trump. That said, I bet we find out the comms plan sucked.
Failure starts at the top! He should've been coached better 🤣Billy D is such a bad ass, but he cut the wrong way on the punt return in the OB. He should have scored. But, I’ll give him a pass on it.
Fact is, while there were breakdowns in security that allowed a sniper to scale a roof and get a shot off on Trump, SS did successfully eliminated the threat in short order and get Trump out of there alive.
So in spite of all the fair criticism that is everywhere right now, SS did do their job.
What is catturd saying?Everyone has an opinion until we get some iron clad info. I find it extremely hard to believe this young person got to where he was and got shots off without being facilitated. I will continue to listen though.
Why are they censoring the words sniper and shooter in the post? I feel like I’m having a serious get off my lawn moment right now.
Social media algorithms don't like that kind of content. So to avoid possibly violating TOS (even though it's a clip from a news agency), some users will self-censor text. That's why you often see "unalive" instead of kill/suicide/murder, etc.Why are they censoring the words sniper and shooter in the post? I feel like I’m having a serious get off my lawn moment right now.
4chan is a complete internet cesspool. Contains some of the most awful content you can (legally) lay eyes on. Also a ton of trolls.Sorry. I only TI. I have no idea who or what 4chan is.
Should be removed today, that shouldn’t be anywhere close to the thought process for that role
I don’t think what he is saying contradicts BD24. It makes me think that the gun and ladder were hidden for the shooter.
Huh, we were both in Iraq at the same time. My ground tour was from Dec '04 to May '05 at Camp Anaconda/Balad AB, then was all over the place in and around Iraq from Jun-Dec '05. I went through Baghdad a ton, most notably when we're carrying a USO entourage headed up by CJCS Gen Myers. That would have been around Aug '05, if memory serves.Dignitary Protective Division 2004-2005 (Detail Leader for Ambassador L. Paul Bremer - Head of the Coalition Provisional Authority- Iraq)
Ppl in close prox to the POTUS/vPOTUS get a "Yankee White" background Investigaton. This is an enhancement to the Single Scope Background Investigation for ppl with TS/SCI clearances.I imagine it was pretty chaotic right after 9/11.
How do security clearances work for agents? Being in close quarters with some of the most important people in the country, I’m sure ya’ll are privy to lots of very sensitive conversations/info. Is there a certain point where agents are not allowed to be in the room if top secret information is being discussed or reviewed? I’m sure that while a “code of silence” of some sorts is probably very important to agents, there would also be legal ramifications to leaking any information as well.
DJT should have been out of there at the first hint of trouble. As soon as there was a "getting reports of someone on a roof," SS should have done the turtle thing and got him out of there. How is that not SOP, @24TIGER?They can know "who's where" but if they are wrong they end up in prison for killing one of their own.
This is pretty good as he indicates that the middle defense tier failed to secure the building and thus the rooftop.
Check out this thread. It explains it in a very plausible way. I thought the exact same thing you did until I read through this. Nothing political in that link, promise.
Indeed...its too obvious to be overlooked...that is, to not have the roof covered by counter-sniper(s) at all times. One has to think the guy was just over a crest and out of sight until ppl saw him and started raising hell. It follows then that the outer perimeter guys simply did not have direct comms with the inner protective detail and had trouble raising the alert. How there was no means for a breakthrough radio transmission to signal an immediate shielding of the DJT is beyond me.
DJT should have been out of there at the first hint of trouble. As soon as there was a "getting reports of someone on a roof," SS should have done the turtle thing and got him out of there. How is that not SOP, @24TIGER?
He may have done this over politics but we absolutely do not know this yet.Yeah…..
He tried to assassinate a former US president and current presidential candidate over politics.