I agree with this. Gun culture in the US is a major problem. There's a reason that the US dwarfs every other first world nation on Earth in gun violence, and it's not because the people in the US are more prone to mental health issues, or there are more single parent homes here than elsewhere.
Is It Getting Any Harder for Any of You to Keep Supporting Assault Rifles Blowing Children Apart?
- Thread starter okclem
- Start date
So please point out the statistics of legal gun owners who are part of this so-called gun culture that commit these kinds of crimes.
Also, your entire premise is false. We are around 87th in the world in murder rate with guns.
Gun Deaths by Country 2024
It's so frustrating because we are so busy quoting the fake realities or our predisposed narratives that truth is completely lost in there. Let's start with what's real and move to what we can do to correct the problems we face. Because no matter what statistics say, a person taking a gun into a school to shoot children is the height of evil.
The United States ranks somewhere around 28 internationally in gun violence, Also, gun culture has been in the United States literally since its inception, but mass shootings are a relatively new event. It might just be because we have an astounding number of mentally unstable people who have been both created and fostered by the ever-woke cultural push in America by far left liberal marxists. And yet every single one of you guys is going to defend the left, instead of acknowledging that the tail has been wagging the dog in your party of choice.
All of the legally purchased guns that were used to commit atrocities were purchased by "legal gun owners."So please point out the statistics of legal gun owners who are part of this so-called gun culture that commit these kinds of crimes.
Also, your entire premise is false. We are around 87th in the world in murder rate with guns.
Gun Deaths by Country 2024
worldpopulationreview.com
It's so frustrating because we are so busy quoting the fake realities or our predisposed narratives that truth is completely lost in there. Let's start with what's real and move to what we can do to correct the problems we face. Because no matter what statistics say, a person taking a gun into a school to shoot children is the height of evil.
I said we led all first-world nations in gun violence, which your link proved. Brazil isn't a first world nation.
Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019
- Brazil — 49,436
- United States — 37,038
- Venezuela — 28,515
- Mexico — 22,116
- India — 14,710
- Colombia — 13,169
- Philippines — 9,267
- Guatemala — 5,980
See my previous post re: gun violence among FIRST WORLD NATIONS. Idk about you guys, but i like to think we should compare ourselves to our peer countries, not second and third world nations who are still developing.
Mass shootings have been occurring in the US since the 19th century, and probably before then. I guess you could say the very first instance of a true "mass shooting" per today's terms would be in 1891.
No one is defending "the left." We're just pointing out the most obvious common fact between the US and other first world nations where there is dramatically less instances of mass gun violence - ease of access of guns.
And the overwhelming majority of that is suicide by gun. How people kill themselves is not relevant. What matters is that people kill themselves and what we can do to help people with suicidal ideations. Using that statistic as part of a gun campaign is disingenuous at best. You're also taking a total number instead of a per capita number when we are one of the largest nations on earth and by far have the most guns per person of any country on earth. When you use the actual statistics on an average basis per citizen it totally destroys the argument a lot of people are trying to make including you. I'm sure that's why you guys never want to go there.
I mean, I disagree entirely about suicide not being relevant. People use guns for suicide because it's seen as painless and quick/easy. I thought we were trying to prevent all gun deaths, not just murder?
If you want to look at a per capita basis on gun violence which excludes suicide, and includes first world nations - sure I've got that.
edit: i apologize, Chile is actually 2nd world, but the point still stands.
FBI Crime Date per Weapon Type
Your definition of "epidemic" and mine are different. According to the FBI crime statistics, from 2015-2019 there was an average of 314.6 homicides per year where a rifle was used. That's ALL rifles, not just AR15's, so grandaddy's single shot 30-06 is in there as well. I'm not sure how many of those 314.6 were children but it's definitely not all of them.
I think a child being murdered by any means is tragic no matter the tool being used to murder them. It definitely shouldn't happen, but I don't think the data supports or justifies the stripping of millions upon millions of people of their rights because >315 people per year are killed. By you're logic, we could save far more lives if we'd ban hammers than ar15's.
Someone already mentioned abortion above and I've always found it ironic that the same crowd who thinks a woman should be allowed to murder a child for convince, to the tune of millions of children per year, also believes it's perfectly acceptable to strip people of the right to self defense because of maybe 100 children per year. I've never figured out how a single person reconciles both of those positions at the same time?
Your definition of "epidemic" and mine are different. According to the FBI crime statistics, from 2015-2019 there was an average of 314.6 homicides per year where a rifle was used. That's ALL rifles, not just AR15's, so grandaddy's single shot 30-06 is in there as well. I'm not sure how many of those 314.6 were children but it's definitely not all of them.
I think a child being murdered by any means is tragic no matter the tool being used to murder them. It definitely shouldn't happen, but I don't think the data supports or justifies the stripping of millions upon millions of people of their rights because >315 people per year are killed. By you're logic, we could save far more lives if we'd ban hammers than ar15's.
Someone already mentioned abortion above and I've always found it ironic that the same crowd who thinks a woman should be allowed to murder a child for convince, to the tune of millions of children per year, also believes it's perfectly acceptable to strip people of the right to self defense because of maybe 100 children per year. I've never figured out how a single person reconciles both of those positions at the same time?
I did not read the whole article, but the last tweet said it was not known if those employees were on site at the time. At the very least, we know there were was no armed officer there on site.
I mean, I disagree entirely about suicide not being relevant. People use guns for suicide because it's seen as painless and quick/easy. I thought we were trying to prevent all gun deaths, not just murder?
If you want to look at a per capita basis on gun violence which excludes suicide, and includes first world nations - sure I've got that.
edit: i apologize, Chile is actually 2nd world, but the point still stands.
No, they don't. Again, you're parsing convenient data. You said we dwarf the rest of the world. We don't. When we selectively include a list of countries to make our point, that doesn't work either. So again, I ask why can't we just address reality rather than parsing things?
Suicide is entirely relevant but not in terms of methodology related to firearms deaths. We're talking about a problem of violent criminals using guns to kill people although it is noteworthy that most mass shooters seem to have suicidal ideations as well.
No one is advocating taking your guns if you aren't mentally ill. But we know that many of these shooters bought their weapons days before and we also know the old Assault Weapons ban had an effect, so it would make sense to go back to that policy at the very least.
The large majority of Americans agree with keeping abortion legal and just because you consider abortion murder, doesn't mean everyone else has to. You are not our moral authority.
My guy, i literally said that gun deaths in the US dwarf every other first world nation on Earth. Here, i've posted the quote and bolded the statement.
If you can't understand why we need to be comparing ourselves to our peer countries, and not third world/second world countries then idk what to tell you.
"we also know the old Assault Weapons ban had an effect". Please provide some data to support your claim, FBI crime data suggests the complete opposite as violent crime declined after the 1994 ban expired.
This thread is about saving children, my point is that if saving children is your goal........there's an easy way to save millions per year if you do away with abortion and you could save more banning hammers than ar15's. BUT saving children is not the actual goal here.
I also don't believe that just because something is supported by the majority it therefore makes it moral. The title of this thread says "Blowing Children Apart", go find a late term abortion video where they show the child literately dodging forceps, clearly reacting to pain, having their limbs ripped from their bodies, skulls crushed, and what is clearly a human being pulled out and come back and talk to me about what's moral. I'll watch one with you and if you can make it through without crying or throwing up I'll give you $100.
Have at it. The results will be the same.
People who intend on breaking the law will find a gun any way possible. Law abiding citizens do not operate that way.
We want to protect our families from criminals, and protect our morals/values (I know you weren't raised with any because of your post) from people like you.
This is what is so hard for me to understand. Children dying is terrible no matter the cause or the number. However, the number of people killed by what anyone calls "assualt" rifles, no matter if it was in a mass shooting or not is almost statistically zero.
It is astounding to me the amount of $$$ and time that has been spent promoting assault rifle bans by stupid people who obviously can not do simple math. Why don't we focus on something like the massive amounts of drugs, fentanyl in particular, entering this country killing multiple times more children?
If there is actually a political party with the blood of children on their hands, it is the dem party, and it's not even close. Our unwillingness to secure the border is a major, if not primary, cause of the massive influx of drugs killing our children. Yet, all we hear from the people who decry the horror of school shootings (which are rightly horrific), is crickets about the multiple times more kids being killed by their border policies. Ditto for adult deaths. All dems really care about are soundbites and sensationalism to score political points. The proof is obvious to anyone that has even limited critical thinking skills and basic math skills. They don't really give a crap about our kids, or adults, for that matter. Their policy, pandering, press, votes, spending, and resource allocation all confirm this beyond any reasonable doubt. Math ain't hard.
Fentanyl is the deadliest drug threat the U.S. has ever seen, and kids are being targeted
Blain, M.D., is a family physician practicing telemedicine, and an assistant professor in UC San Diego Department of Family Medicine, as well as a medical officer in the U.S. Navy Reserve. He lives…
www.sandiegouniontribune.com
Fentanyl Related Deaths Are Surging in Children | HealthNews
Fentanyl is causing a surge of deaths among children, and may now be the leading cause of death in people aged 18 to 45 in the U.S. What can we do to stop more deaths?
healthnews.com
Good god that's a bullshit answer....lol. I hope you're smarter than that....seriously.
Apparently math is hard for you. Nothing you said is true on the face of it. Just more made up bullshit to avoid being wrong. Facts are facts, dude.This is what is so hard for me to understand. Children dying is terrible no matter the cause or the number. However, the number of people killed by what anyone calls "assualt" rifles, no matter if it was in a mass shooting or not is almost statistically zero.
It is astounding to me the amount of $$$ and time that has been spent promoting assault rifle bans by stupid people who obviously can not do simple math. Why don't we focus on something like the massive amounts of drugs, fentanyl in particular, entering this country killing multiple times more children?
If there is actually a political party with the blood of children on their hands, it is the dem party, and it's not even close. Our unwillingness to secure the border is a major, if not primary, cause of the massive influx of drugs killing our children. Yet, all we hear from the people who decry the horror of school shootings (which are rightly horrific), is crickets about the multiple times more kids being killed by their border policies. Ditto for adult deaths. All dems really care about are soundbites and sensationalism to score political points. The proof is obvious to anyone that has even limited critical thinking skills and basic math skills. They don't really give a crap about our kids, or adults, for that matter. Their policy, pandering, press, votes, spending, and resource allocation all confirm this beyond any reasonable doubt. Math ain't hard.
Fentanyl is the deadliest drug threat the U.S. has ever seen, and kids are being targeted
Blain, M.D., is a family physician practicing telemedicine, and an assistant professor in UC San Diego Department of Family Medicine, as well as a medical officer in the U.S. Navy Reserve. He lives…
Fentanyl Related Deaths Are Surging in Children | HealthNews
Fentanyl is causing a surge of deaths among children, and may now be the leading cause of death in people aged 18 to 45 in the U.S. What can we do to stop more deaths?
neither are we. look around...we have a human house plant in the white house, a party making policy on pronouns and proclaiming men can have babies, printing a trillion dollars to "reduce" inflation, celebrate certain leakers of information as heroes and send others to the gulag - depends on who the info makes look bad, a justice department chasing soccer moms and church goers, an education system prioritizing teaching sex and race when kids are years behind in math and reading, incentivizing corporations and institutions to admit and hire based solely on physical qualities, reintroducing segregating by race as our grand solution to racism, and think the solution to gun violence is taking away a small subset of those legally purchased from law abiding owners...to name just a few things.
we are not a serious country, and you are proving it. tell me, are you that actually so stupid you think taking that subset of firearms from law abiding individuals will end gun violence or violence in general? or do you think the rest of us are stupid enough to believe you actually give a sht about lives lost to gun violence? same thing every time with liberals...emotional arguments for just one thing...next thing you know you guys are trying to normalize pedophilia and argue men should be allowed to play women's sports if they bolt a pair of tits to their chest.
the answer is no. find a real solution or take your disingenuous tears and go cry schools a moat.
I’m glad to see the help has arrived to obfuscate and try to shift the narrative from gun violence to…abortion and pronouns??
Listen, man, I try and go out of my way not to engage you because I find you completely unhinged. So that being said, have a good day.
The graph below shows the spike after they allowed the assault weapons ban to expire.
Your hammer question is nonsense and I already mentioned that the majority of people don't consider abortion murder, so unless it's defined that way, it's not, but red states are beginning to do just that. Only 1% of abortions are late term and those are usually due to the life of the mother or a child that will likely die soon after birth. Not something that's done willy-nilly. Pete addresses it perfectly here.
You already proved you don't know what CRT is and now it's clear you don't know what Marxism is either, but of course you would blame the left for everything you don't like, not because it's true but because that's what you hard righties do. You bitch incessantly about everything but solve nothing.
You say the hammer question is nonsense, but I am willing to bet 30 people/yr were probably killed with a hammer from 2004-2014. Also, that graph doesn't tell you how many of those people were killed with assault weapons. I am pretty sure hammers were more deadly during that time. No matter what the case may be, 30 deaths per year( or even 10 times that) is nothing we should even be spending time discussing on a national level, much less devoting any significant amount of resources to try and stop. As indicated in my previous post, there are much larger problems killing many more children and adults that we should be devoting resources to rather than assault weapons bans.The graph below shows the spike after they allowed the assault weapons ban to expire.
Your hammer question is nonsense and I already mentioned that the majority of people don't consider abortion murder, so unless it's defined that way, it's not, but red states are beginning to do just that. Only 1% of abortions are late term and those are usually due to the life of the mother or a child that will likely die soon after birth. Not something that's done willy-nilly. Pete addresses it perfectly here.
The graph below shows the spike after they allowed the assault weapons ban to expire.
Your hammer question is nonsense and I already mentioned that the majority of people don't consider abortion murder, so unless it's defined that way, it's not, but red states are beginning to do just that. Only 1% of abortions are late term and those are usually due to the life of the mother or a child that will likely die soon after birth. Not something that's done willy-nilly. Pete addresses it perfectly here.
What percentage of child deaths are from assault weapons, or even total gun deaths?
You are not a serious person and you're never interested in solving actual problems. Your goal is simply to pick other posters statements apart and muddy the waters to confuse and distract. You can F right off, no time for your bs.
The graph below shows the spike after they allowed the assault weapons ban to expire.
Your hammer question is nonsense and I already mentioned that the majority of people don't consider abortion murder, so unless it's defined that way, it's not, but red states are beginning to do just that. Only 1% of abortions are late term and those are usually due to the life of the mother or a child that will likely die soon after birth. Not something that's done willy-nilly. Pete addresses it perfectly here.
Again, social media and smart phones nothing to do with that, right? Same for our massive decline in values, morals, family structure and mental health. It's incredibly selective to just pick one aspect of this and say that's it. Especially when the increase in deaths doesn't match up with the number of rifle deaths. Rifles are used in a little over 3% of total homicides in America. You're using entirely anecdotal data to make a point that doesn't exist to fit your narrative.
In any given year, for every person murdered with a rifle, there are 15 murdered with handguns, 1.7 with hands or fists, and 1.2 with blunt instruments. In fact, homicides with any sort of rifle represent a mere 3.2 percent of all homicides on average over the past decade.
But yeah, it's "assault" weapons which are still banned though the ban doesn't exist anymore. It's lovely how truth and statistical data matter so little to so many people.
And again, even by your data the per capita percentage doesn't dwarf the world. Also, who you view as a peer country is a subjective data point. The United States doesn't have a peer country. Sadly, we're one of a kind in the world today. No need to measure us against something we're not trying to compete with and shouldn't be trying to compete with.
But what about this other thing and then what about this other, other thing? You are ridiculous
Other countries have smart phones and social media and they don't have mass shootings.
The graph speaks for itself and your desire to throw a bunch of shit against the wall to confuse the issue won't change that.
Yes they do. I'd have to do the research but what are their rates of suicide and other things? US culture is different. Unfortunately in a lot of bad ways these days.
The fact of the matter is that your data points are not supported by reality. It's that simple and no matter how many times you try to spin it or graphs that you put up to fit your narrative there is no version in which the data supports what you're saying is reality. The inference of your data points is that the assault weapon ban which is still in place but sunset on weapons like an AR-15 is somehow responsible for the increase in violent crime. That's not held up in any version of the data. Rifle crime is not anywhere near that percentage no matter how much you wanted to be that way. And that is really something that is ridiculous because you're so desperate for your position to be upheld that you'll completely ignore reality and any facts that get in your way as usual.
Get mad… You’re just a giant emotional bitch who believes in stupid ideas
Honestly, I would be willing to entertain stricter gun laws if the other side of the aisle was willing to entertain anything other than an all out “assault rifle” ban. But they aren’t interested in actually looking at all ideas, just pushing their agenda.
So as a result, I have zero interest in having this conversation
So as a result, I have zero interest in having this conversation
Glad you’re living in reality for once. Now that we’ve got that cleared up, let’s move on to other issues
Good talk
If you don’t yet know it your insults and ranting has done nothing to solve the problem
In saying that to you then you immediately start the hate mongering white supremacy racism shit storm and your I am the high and mighty and everyone needs to heed my words
OK let me say that your words are repeated many times and i feel the same that we need to stop violence
So far solutions have not magically appeared that answer all questions
Of course no sane reasonable person wants children to be blown to bits
I for one and there are many more people who are struggling to find a sweet spot that will offer a solution
I admit your sane reasonable local small approach has not provided a universal solution but then yours has neither
So lets continue to work at solutions
I just will not use your approach to problem solving
Similar threads
