Life Long Republican

[UrHuckleberry]

I don't fault folks for being conflicted about voting for Trump. He's a crappy candidate. He got bet by Joe Friggin Biden for goodness sake and has at best a razor thin margin over someone even worse than him in Kamala Harris! There's hardly been a worse candidate on the left than either of those two since Walter Mondale or Jimmy Carter.

Trump's behavior on J6 disturbs me as well, even if much of it is overblown. Still, what he did in office pre-COVID was remarkable. He has the guts to do what needs to be done that others lack. And I think our government overall is strong enough to contain any potential Trump excesses, overblown as the those fears may be as well.

While I have never voted for Trump in a primary, I will 100% be voting for him for a third time on election day and am desperately hoping and praying that he wins.

Based on what I've seen from your posting, were I you, my concern would be that the first four years that had policies you agree with were mostly led by adults in the room. And if his endorsements are any indication, I would worry that those adults are no longer in the room, and that this administration will just be grievance and more far right politics. Unless you think Trump himself was the one who pushed all those policies you agree with I suppose. Which I personally find unlikely.

 

[TigerRagRob]

not sure what there is to be conflicted about honestly.

• rapist
• whoremonger
• thief
• cheat
• adulterer
• heretic
• dotard
• facepainter
• felon
• fraudster
• national security threat
• wannabe fascist
• octogenarian
• Putin stooge

I would vote for Cryin Shane if he was running against that type of person. And Trump is already laying the groundwork for another J6 incident and more thorough attack on our free and fair election. He and his cronies like MTG are already blasting it across their accounts. His reaction to places like PA actually has me more confident in a loss now. There are rumors that he has been told internally that he will not win PA/WI/MI and other states are in jeopardy, which is why he pulled out of the Penn State/Ohio State game and has started accusing people of election fraud in PA.

You need help. TDS is a terrible thing to suffer from. Maybe you can get a check from the Gov for it...The only thing I might agree with you from that list is he is a Playboy for sure. But you guys love Dems that are playboys, rapist, and pedos. But being the incel that you are I can see why that might offend you... PS- the NY courts has pretty much thrown out that bs case and he's not a felon. I linked the entire hearing for board consumption a week or so ago...

 

[okclem]

Based on what I've seen from your posting, were I you, my concern would be that the first four years that had policies you agree with were mostly led by adults in the room. And if his endorsements are any indication, I would worry that those adults are no longer in the room, and that this administration will just be grievance and more far right politics. Unless you think Trump himself was the one who pushed all those policies you agree with I suppose. Which I personally find unlikely.

Dude literally works for Project 2025

 

[TigerRagRob]

Its sad how children in this country throw arond words like "nazi" so casuallly less than 100yrs since the real nazis systematicly murdered millions and cased millions more to be killed fighting to stop them from taking over Europe.

Its called projection. They cant defend and talk policy so they attack to sway people against the Reps who are none of what they claim...Read "Rules for Radicals" by Sal Alinski to understand what they are doing. Its their playbook/Bible...

 

[jroller]

Its sad how children in this country throw arond words like "nazi" so casuallly less than 100yrs since the real nazis systematicly murdered millions and cased millions more to be killed fighting to stop them from taking over europe.

I empathize with your position, but none of that suffering and loss happens had Hitler not risen to power in the first place. I don't think Trump is that level of evil, but based on my observation of his words and actions, his clear love of dictators and the events of Jan. 6, I have no doubt that I don't want him in office.

As Shakespeare’s Brutus says in Julius Caesar: ''And therefore think him as a serpent's egg / Which, hatch'd, would, as his kind, grow mischievous, / And kill him in the shell. '' (No...that's not my suggesting he be literally killed, for the record. Merely a metaphor from a character in a play contemplating the loss of his republic to a dictator want-to-be.)

The fuller passage shares some interesting parallels:

And for my part
I know no personal cause to spurn at him,
But for the general. He would be crowned:
How that might change his nature, there’s the
question.
It is the bright day that brings forth the adder,
And that craves wary walking. Crown him that,
And then I grant we put a sting in him
That at his will he may do danger with.
Th’ abuse of greatness is when it disjoins
Remorse from power. And, to speak truth of Caesar,
I have not known when his affections swayed
More than his reason. But ’tis a common proof
That lowliness is young ambition’s ladder,
Whereto the ⌜climber-upward⌝ turns his face;
But, when he once attains the upmost round,
He then unto the ladder turns his back,
Looks in the clouds, scorning the base degrees
By which he did ascend. So Caesar may.
Then, lest he may, prevent. And since the quarrel
Will bear no color for the thing he is,
Fashion it thus: that what he is, augmented,
Would run to these and these extremities.
And therefore think him as a serpent’s egg,
Which, hatched, would, as his kind, grow
mischievous,
And kill him in the shell.

 

[iceheart08]

Its called projection. They cant defend and talk policy so they attack to sway people against the Reps who are none of what they claim...Read "Rules for Radicals" by Sal Alinski to understand what they are doing. Its their playbook/Bible...

I know I know, you won't listen. But nobody I have ever ****ing worked with, myself included, has read Saul alinsky. Lolololol.

You are a caricature of a person.

 

[leetp]

Based on what I've seen from your posting, were I you, my concern would be that the first four years that had policies you agree with were mostly led by adults in the room. And if his endorsements are any indication, I would worry that those adults are no longer in the room, and that this administration will just be grievance and more far right politics. Unless you think Trump himself was the one who pushed all those policies you agree with I suppose. Which I personally find unlikely.

Just what is a far-right policy?

I see Trump attempting to do just what his slogan says, attempt to make America great again--and least his opinion of great.

From my read, what Trump aims to do is get control of immigration and reestablish American dominance in manufacturing--all while adhering to a somewhat isolationist foreign policy.

On immigrations:
He largely failed on the immigration front in his first four years, but it was not for not trying. Congress stripped funding for his border initiatives or otherwise successfully blocked him at every turn. On his approach for making Mexico pay for some of these boarder initiatives, this was actually starting bear fruit. He was effectively strong-arming Mexico into being more aggressive on their side of the boarder using the threat of tariffs. THIS WAS ACUTALLY WORKING!!!! I want to give him another stab at it....especially with a public more eager to support him and more willing congress.

On American manufacturing:
Let me say this up front: I take a largely libertarian stand on the Federal Government--which means I am largely against tariffs. But I am largely against a lot of things...but that does not mean they cannot effectively be used temporarily as a means to achieve and end. And on that front, tariffs were working, and the bulk of the potential negative effects did NOT initially materialize the way the "experts" insisted. Trump also very effectively used the bully pulpit to shame some of our largest American industries into repatriating at least some of their manufacturing. While his threats to them made me cringe at times and often ran contrary to my larger libertarian world view, THIS too WAS ACTUALLY WORKING!!!! ....so well in fact Biden kept much of it in tact. To be clear, I am still against tariffs as a general policy, but I do see the possibility of using them temporarily to achieve a more equitable trade balance...particularly with China. China is on much more delicate socioeconomic footing than we are and is less capable than we are of sustaining protracted trade war. I firmly believe they will capitulate at least somewhat--which is all we are really after. As Trump himself has said, he does not want to bankrupt his trading partners. He needs their economies to be healthy so they can buy American goods (YES! He has absolutely said this!)

 

[ANEW]

I empathize with your position, but none of that suffering and loss happens had Hitler not risen to power in the first place. I don't think Trump is that level of evil, but based on my observation of his words and actions, his clear love of dictators and the events of Jan. 6, I have no doubt that I don't want him in office.

As Shakespeare’s Brutus says in Julius Caesar: ''And therefore think him as a serpent's egg / Which, hatch'd, would, as his kind, grow mischievous, / And kill him in the shell. '' (No...that's not my suggesting he be literally killed, for the record. Merely a metaphor from a character in a play contemplating the loss of his republic to a dictator want-to-be.)

The fuller passage shares some interesting parallels:

And for my part
I know no personal cause to spurn at him,
But for the general. He would be crowned:
How that might change his nature, there’s the
question.
It is the bright day that brings forth the adder,
And that craves wary walking. Crown him that,
And then I grant we put a sting in him
That at his will he may do danger with.
Th’ abuse of greatness is when it disjoins
Remorse from power. And, to speak truth of Caesar,
I have not known when his affections swayed
More than his reason. But ’tis a common proof
That lowliness is young ambition’s ladder,
Whereto the ⌜climber-upward⌝ turns his face;
But, when he once attains the upmost round,
He then unto the ladder turns his back,
Looks in the clouds, scorning the base degrees
By which he did ascend. So Caesar may.
Then, lest he may, prevent. And since the quarrel
Will bear no color for the thing he is,
Fashion it thus: that what he is, augmented,
Would run to these and these extremities.
And therefore think him as a serpent’s egg,
Which, hatched, would, as his kind, grow
mischievous,
And kill him in the shell.

Can't justify it. Its horrible.

 

[leetp]

I know I know, you won't listen. But nobody I have ever ****ing worked with, myself included, has read Saul alinsky. Lolololol.

You are a caricature of a person.

Perhaps that's part of the problem. Not enough people read Alinsky...or Marx. The parallels to the modern left are staggering....and terrifying.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Just what is a far-right policy?

I see Trump attempting to do just what his slogan says, attempt to make America great again--and least his opinion of great.

From my read, what Trump aims to do is get control of immigration and reestablish American dominance in manufacturing--all while adhering to a somewhat isolationist foreign policy.

On immigrations:
He largely failed on the immigration front in his first four years, but it was not for not trying. Congress stripped funding for his border initiatives or otherwise successfully blocked him at every turn. On his approach for making Mexico pay for some of these boarder initiatives, this was actually starting bear fruit. He was effectively strong-arming Mexico into being more aggressive on their side of the boarder using the threat of tariffs. THIS WAS ACUTALLY WORKING!!!! I want to give him another stab at it....especially with a public more eager to support him and more willing congress.

On American manufacturing:
Let me say this up front: I take a largely libertarian stand on the Federal Government--which means I am largely against tariffs. But I am largely against a lot of things...but that does not mean they cannot effectively be used temporarily and a means to achieve and end. And on that front, tariffs were working, and the bulk of the potential negative effects did initially materialize the way the "experts" insisted. Trump also very effectively used the bully pulpit to shame some of our largest American industries into repatriating at least some of their manufacturing. While his threats to them made me cringe at times and often ran contrary to my larger libertarian would view, THIS too WAS ACTUALLY WORKING!!!! ....so well in fact Biden kept much of it in tact. To be clear, I am still against tariffs as a general policy, but I do see the possibility of using them temporarily to achieve a more equitable trade balance...particularly with China. China is on much more delicate socioeconomic footing than we are and I less capable than we are of sustaining protracted trade war. I firmly believe they will capitulate at least somewhat--which is all we are really after. As Trump himself has said, he does not want to bankrupt his trading partners. He needs their economies to be healthy so they can buy American goods (YES! He has absolutely said this!)

I just mainly think that all of the above is what you want Trump to care about. And that Trump only cares about Trump. That his slogan should really be Make Trump Great/Loved.

I also think the danger his rhetoric and general outlook/communication/general demeanor towards everyone who doesn't fawn over him is greater than what someone who's policies I don't fully agree with on everything represents. Especially as policies are limited by Checks and Balances, but rhetoric just seems to escalate.

We'll clearly agree to disagree. It's cool. I just think a lot of well intentioned people are talking themselves into a candidate that doesn't actual exist.

 

[WapPride]

Interesting article: https://itep.org/kamala-harris-donald-trump-tax-plans/

Feelin for all the posters in here who aren't making more than $350k/year

 

[leetp]

Interesting article: https://itep.org/kamala-harris-donald-trump-tax-plans/

Feelin for all the posters in here who aren't making more than $350k/year

This chart is bogus on numerous fronts....

When has one of these "expert" opinions of net tax policy affect been even remotely accurate?

And where is Trump's supposed tax increase coming from? Is this the speculated net effect of proposed tariffs?

People making $28,600 already essentially pay zero taxes. Heck, the current standard deduction is more than that for married/joint filers.

Our whole tax code is absurd. As the great composer M.J. Keenen once wrote: "...the only way to cleanse it is to flush it all away."
Although, he was talking about LA, not the tax code.

 

[TheValley91]

This chart is bogus on numerous fronts....

When has one of these "expert" opinions of net tax policy affect been even remotely accurate?

And where is Trump's supposed tax increase coming from? Is this the speculated net effect of proposed tariffs?

People making $28,600 already essentially pay zero taxes. Heck, the current standard deduction is more than that for married/joint filers.

Our whole tax code is absurd. As the great composer M.J. Keenen once wrote: "...the only way to cleanse it is to flush it all away."
Although, he was talking about LA, not the tax code.

It’s bogus because I don’t like it!

 

[WapPride]

This chart is bogus on numerous fronts....

When has one of these "expert" opinions of net tax policy affect been even remotely accurate?

And where is Trump's supposed tax increase coming from? Is this the speculated net effect of proposed tariffs?

People making $28,600 already essentially pay zero taxes. Heck, the current standard deduction is more than that for married/joint filers.

Our whole tax code is absurd. As the great composer M.J. Keenen once wrote: "...the only way to cleanse it is to flush it all away."
Although, he was talking about LA, not the tax code.

Take it up with ITEP, who is used by both Republicans and Democrats for fact checking tax policy, and have never failed a fact check conducted by independent third party auditors.

 

[leetp]

Take it up with ITEP, who is used by both Republicans and Democrats for fact checking tax policy, and have never failed a fact check conducted by independent third party auditors.

Gotcha...what I want is retrospective analysis. My guess is that it doesn't exist. If only we had a more independent and inquisitive national media not so willing to suspend disbelief on topics that appeal to their personal biases and would pursue obvious and important lines of inquiry such as these....

 

[leetp]

This is where I need to chime in with my usual contention that we--as in ALL of us--are not as divided as we seem or are made to appear. I strongly believe that we are in broad agreement on a comfortable majority of issues once you reduce them down to their atomic components. What we disagree on is who and how best to deliver on these issues. I don't believe Trump can deliver many or even most of the key issues, but I do believe he can deliver on some--and certainly more than Harris or Biden. Some of you don't see it that way, and I respect that.

At the end of the day, inform yourselves. Never cease to challenge your deepest held belief ("Question with boldness even the existence of a god"). Then vote your conscience and don't look back.

God bless America and God bless you all, no matter who you vote for or whether you choose to vote at all.

 

[leetp]

It’s bogus because I don’t like it!

So, you looked past my reason's and just substituted "I don't like it"? Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[okclem]

It’s bogus because I don’t like it!

Dude literally works for project 2025.

 

[okclem]

This is where I need to chime in with my usual contention that we--as in ALL of us--are not as divided as we seem or are made to appear. I strongly believe that we are in broad agreement on a comfortable majority of issues once you reduce them down to their atomic components. What we disagree on is who and how best to deliver on these issues. I don't believe Trump can deliver many or even most of the key issues, but I do believe he can deliver on some--and certainly more than Harris or Biden. Some of you don't see it that way, and I respect that.

At the end of the day, inform yourselves. Never cease to challenge your deepest held belief ("Question with boldness even the existence of a god"). Then vote your conscience and don't look back.

God bless America and God bless you all, not matter who you vote for or whether you choose to vote at all.

🖕my deepest held belief is that nazi fascists like you have no place in civilized society, and I'm not willing to challenge that even a little.

 

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

OP I'm in the same boat as you. I'm a lifelong Republican. Unfortunately the party has been morphed into a right wing hate party by a guy who isn't even a Republican. I voted for Trump the first go round. Never again. He's a traitor and a terrible person. I won't vote for Kamala either...she's not good and it's ludicrous that these are our choices. However, if I lived in a swing state I most definitely would vote for her.....just to keep Trump out of the White House. He's gotta be kept out.

Trump's moral character has gotten in the way of him producing positive change. Hillary is an arrogant and detached person who represented the worst parts of our government, and I welcomed the idea that the Republican party would move away from Bush era neoconservative delusion. His presidency was largely good, but COVID threw a wrench in things. What the Federal government did with him wasn't substantially different than anything a Democrat would have done, and he was aggressive in pushing for vaccine development. There was no way that the virus wouldn't have killed a large number of people and tanked the economy. To me, he got unfairly punished in the election as the head of state at a uniquely unlucky time. Hundreds of thousands of people died from COVID under Biden too, but he wasn't trying to win an election at that point.

Losing the election sent Trump over the edge, and there wasn't a reason for it. Now, what was a refreshing way of looking at the economy, foreign policy, etc has been tied to his personality.

 

[okclem]

Trump's moral character has gotten in the way of him producing positive change. Hillary is an arrogant and detached person who represented the worst parts of our government, and I welcomed the idea that the Republican party would move away from Bush era neoconservative delusion. His presidency was largely good, but COVID threw a wrench in things. What the Federal government did with him wasn't substantially different than anything a Democrat would have done, and he was aggressive in pushing for vaccine development. There was no way that the virus wouldn't have killed a large number of people and tanked the economy. To me, he got unfairly punished in the election as the head of state at a uniquely unlucky time. Hundreds of thousands of people died from COVID under Biden too, but he wasn't trying to win an election at that point.

Losing the election sent Trump over the edge, and there wasn't a reason for it. Now, what was a refreshing way of looking at the economy, foreign policy, etc has been tied to his personality.

Our economy is presently thriving in ways Trump could only dream of.

 

[Tiger Guru]

Ive learned through reading these threads, some people think the sky is purple will argue with you about it. You're crazy if you can't see it.

People are either trolling or getting paid to say some of these things. If not, it's a great example of people believe what they want. So why bother?

Seriously, I have a friend who told me in 2015 If Trump were elected, Miami would be under water by 2020 and that we would be in WW3 and that Trump would never leave and become a dictator for decades.

It doesn't matter that none of that happened. What's wild is that he literally would fight you for not believing it. So why did he believe it so much? Don't argue with people. That guy sounds a lot like some of these people on here today.

We are way past the days of talking. Nobody wants to be wrong. They just believe what mom and dad told them and what their TV tells them. Very few people are actually willing to debate and take a deep look inside. So don't bother.

If there's ever a time in the society where we shouldn't talk politics, it's now. Because we're not talking, we're telling.

Go vote and deal with the consequences. It's a great privilege!

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Trump's moral character has gotten in the way of him producing positive change. Hillary is an arrogant and detached person who represented the worst parts of our government, and I welcomed the idea that the Republican party would move away from Bush era neoconservative delusion. His presidency was largely good, but COVID threw a wrench in things. What the Federal government did with him wasn't substantially different than anything a Democrat would have done, and he was aggressive in pushing for vaccine development. There was no way that the virus wouldn't have killed a large number of people and tanked the economy. To me, he got unfairly punished in the election as the head of state at a uniquely unlucky time. Hundreds of thousands of people died from COVID under Biden too, but he wasn't trying to win an election at that point.

Losing the election sent Trump over the edge, and there wasn't a reason for it. Now, what was a refreshing way of looking at the economy, foreign policy, etc has been tied to his personality.

The issue with the above, is that a national emergency is actually politically a gold mine for a politician if they handle it even reasonably respectably. 9/11, while a horrible event in our countries history, was great politically for Bush (or say Rudy G). Trump could have just listened to experts, shown empathy for what many were going through, tried to give hope, and thanked the resiliency of the American people. Would've won the next election going away.

 

[firegiver]

Its sad how children in this country throw arond words like "nazi" so casuallly less than 100yrs since the real nazis systematicly murdered millions and cased millions more to be killed fighting to stop them from taking over europe.

Yah thats why I just call Trump a fascist, because that is completely accurate. No need for hyperbole.

 

[Tiger Guru]

The issue with the above, is that a national emergency is actually politically a gold mine for a politician if they handle it even reasonably respectably. 9/11, while a horrible event in our countries history, was great politically for Bush (or say Rudy G). Trump could have just listened to experts, shown empathy for what many were going through, tried to give hope, and thanked the resiliency of the American people. Would've won the next election going away.

Nobody benefited from 911 more than the Halliburton CEO. Dude made billions. He was also our VP.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Nobody benefited from 911 more than the Halliburton CEO. Dude made billions. He was also our VP.

Sure. Probably a topic for a different thread tho as it doesn't touch my point at all.

 

[leetp]

Nobody benefited from 911 more than the Halliburton CEO. Dude made billions. He was also our VP.

Well, as somebody that benefited from the support that Halliburton provided, I'm damn sure glad they were there.

 

[leetp]

The issue with the above, is that a national emergency is actually politically a gold mine for a politician if they handle it even reasonably respectably. 9/11, while a horrible event in our countries history, was great politically for Bush (or say Rudy G). Trump could have just listened to experts, shown empathy for what many were going through, tried to give hope, and thanked the resiliency of the American people. Would've won the next election going away.

Trump panicked, that's for sure. But if ever there was a situation where our so-so-called "experts" let us down, it was during COVID.

But back to Trump's panic... What the experts were advocating was going to absolutely destroy our economy (and ruin Trump 's tents at re-election)... So yeah, Trump panicked. Perhaps it was all self-serving, and that's certainly a valid critique.