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OT: Vegas Shootings

amynhop said:
Well he got about 400 lbs of equipment up 30 floors and set up a concealed sniper nest. He disarmed fire alarms and and security systems in casino. He removed an 800 lb hurricane glass and for 10 min continuously ran a fully automatic weapon. All with no training and no motive? And he's an out of shape 64 year old man. Seems odd to me.
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This - well said
 
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alex24 said:
Guy's don't forget there are multiple mass shooting in American ghettos everyday. The media just doesn't cover it very well because let's face it. When black people shoot other black people it just doesn't create viewership.
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You right it should because ever life is valuable as the lives this white man and many others white men that have taken.
 
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utgolfer said:
According to @iceheart08 and @dbjork6317 , that makes you a tinfoil hat wearing, infowars loving, 9/11 truther. You can always count on those guys for some good civil discourse.

I too would like to know how he managed to acquire that armada, and some other logistical stuff, before I felt comfortable that he did this totally unaided. He may have, lets just get the details wrapped up.
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Smiling_Tiger said:
How does one guy get 17 firearms up to a room by himself. firearms are heavy. I don't care who you are, carrying 17 of those into a hotel shouldn't go unnoticed. Even if you manage to fit 4-5 into a bag, that's still 4 very heavy bags for one guy. How does no one notice that some 60+ guy is carrying 4 very heavy bags into a hotel- Just wondering, have you ever been to Vegas? Between golf clubs, suitcases and convention cases, that isn't unusual in the slightest.

And why does he shoot out of two windows instead of one? - He didn't. It was only one. There are 1000 pictures out there from 1000 different sources that all show the same thing.

As for motive and his brother and sister, not knowing about it. That's not that unusual. When people go crazy and do something like this the family almost universally says they had no idea. The "he was just a quiet loner" is, by far, the most common refrain you hear.
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What about ammunition? How does he carry in ammunition for 17 firearms, or enough ammunition to kill 60 and injure at least 400 more (500 total admitted to hospital, probably a decent number due to trampling).

But seriously, how many bags does one man need in Vegas if he's going golfing, gambling, and staying for the weekend? I count three bags total: two suitcases and one golf bag max. So he needs at least 4 bags to carry 17 semiautomatic firearms around, whether they are dismantled or not. Then on top of that, he has to carry in enough ammunition and he also had tripods and cameras set up... Not saying it's completely a conspiracy, but it just seems a little odd that the guy got 5-6+ heavy bags into a hotel room by himself, and planned all of this. It just seems odd that no one would check if the guy had a business conference or anything just as a background, and if he had those credentials in place, why did nobody report that?
 
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cutigers532 said:
What about ammunition? How does he carry in ammunition for 17 firearms, or enough ammunition to kill 60 and injure at least 400 more (500 total admitted to hospital, probably a decent number due to trampling).

But seriously, how many bags does one man need in Vegas if he's going golfing, gambling, and staying for the weekend? I count three bags total: two suitcases and one golf bag max. So he needs at least 4 bags to carry 17 semiautomatic firearms around, whether they are dismantled or not. Then on top of that, he has to carry in enough ammunition and he also had tripods and cameras set up... Not saying it's completely a conspiracy, but it just seems a little odd that the guy got 5-6+ heavy bags into a hotel room by himself, and planned all of this. It just seems odd that no one would check if the guy had a business conference or anything just as a background, and if he had those credentials in place, why did nobody report that?
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He was there 3 days. You're assuming he brought it all in at once. It wouldn't raise an eyebrow in the least to bring it in a bunch of crap. There is so much stuff going on at any one time that it just sort of gets lost. There are also no metal detectors at any hotel I've ever been to in Vegas. Pretty much all over SE Asia, when you go into a hotel you put your bag through a metal detector. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if that's coming soon.
 
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cutigers532 said:
What about ammunition? How does he carry in ammunition for 17 firearms, or enough ammunition to kill 60 and injure at least 400 more (500 total admitted to hospital, probably a decent number due to trampling).

But seriously, how many bags does one man need in Vegas if he's going golfing, gambling, and staying for the weekend? I count three bags total: two suitcases and one golf bag max. So he needs at least 4 bags to carry 17 semiautomatic firearms around, whether they are dismantled or not. Then on top of that, he has to carry in enough ammunition and he also had tripods and cameras set up... Not saying it's completely a conspiracy, but it just seems a little odd that the guy got 5-6+ heavy bags into a hotel room by himself, and planned all of this. It just seems odd that no one would check if the guy had a business conference or anything just as a background, and if he had those credentials in place, why did nobody report that?
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He was there for 3 days, could have made multiple trips.

Have you been to Vegas? No one gives a flip what you're carrying in. Lots of large suitcases & golf luggage/bags on wheels.
 
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cutigers532 said:
What about ammunition? How does he carry in ammunition for 17 firearms, or enough ammunition to kill 60 and injure at least 400 more (500 total admitted to hospital, probably a decent number due to trampling).

But seriously, how many bags does one man need in Vegas if he's going golfing, gambling, and staying for the weekend? I count three bags total: two suitcases and one golf bag max. So he needs at least 4 bags to carry 17 semiautomatic firearms around, whether they are dismantled or not. Then on top of that, he has to carry in enough ammunition and he also had tripods and cameras set up... Not saying it's completely a conspiracy, but it just seems a little odd that the guy got 5-6+ heavy bags into a hotel room by himself, and planned all of this. It just seems odd that no one would check if the guy had a business conference or anything just as a background, and if he had those credentials in place, why did nobody report that?
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I assume housekeeping never entered the room or didnt notice the extensive collection of guns and ammo?
 
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Smiling_Tiger said:
I once did an electronic support convention in Vegas. I was working a booth for a software company and had all the booth equipment in my room the first night because the show floor wasn't open yet. I bet I wheeled 800 lbs worth of crap to my room and no one looked twice. It's Vegas. Between golf bags and stuff like what I had it doesn't stick out in the least.
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^^^ This ^^^

Getting the arsenal to the room was probably the least complicated part of the plan.
 
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cutigers532 said:
What about ammunition? How does he carry in ammunition for 17 firearms, or enough ammunition to kill 60 and injure at least 400 more (500 total admitted to hospital, probably a decent number due to trampling).

But seriously, how many bags does one man need in Vegas if he's going golfing, gambling, and staying for the weekend? I count three bags total: two suitcases and one golf bag max. So he needs at least 4 bags to carry 17 semiautomatic firearms around, whether they are dismantled or not. Then on top of that, he has to carry in enough ammunition and he also had tripods and cameras set up... Not saying it's completely a conspiracy, but it just seems a little odd that the guy got 5-6+ heavy bags into a hotel room by himself, and planned all of this. It just seems odd that no one would check if the guy had a business conference or anything just as a background, and if he had those credentials in place, why did nobody report that?
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He brought them up over several days. After the fact it may seem suspicious but think about how many people are coming and going in a hotel that size.
 
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hj_gville said:
^^^ This ^^^

Getting the arsenal to the room was probably the least complicated part of the plan.
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It was the most dangerous though-as far as getting spotted/caught . So I am curious how careful he had to be to get it done. A heavy bag full of metal falling over would make a distinct sound, or having a hard time getting it out of a trunk, you would need to be a bit careful with that.
 
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TigerDutch said:
He was there for 3 days, could have made multiple trips.

Have you been to Vegas? No one gives a flip what you're carrying in. Lots of large suitcases & golf luggage/bags on wheels.
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Nah I haven't... Just trying to think it through. I know that obviously when tragedy strikes, people want to to be able to explain it, and you can't explain crazy, but there's still a lot of holes in the story. And I'm not saying the news is screwing us out of information, even though there's a lot about the general news media I don't trust, but there's just a lot of intangibles that haven't been explained.
 
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utgolfer said:
It was the most dangerous though-as far as getting spotted/caught . So I am curious how careful he had to be to get it done. A heavy bag full of metal falling over would make a distinct sound, or having a hard time getting it out of a trunk, you would need to be a bit careful with that.
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I’m sure with all the security cameras they already know how many trips he made. Just haven’t released to public
 
dandeman330 said:
I’m sure with all the security cameras they already know how many trips he made. Just haven’t released to public
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Yea the fact they haven't released that footage makes me think someone was with him, and they are trying to figure out if it was someone who should have known what was going on, actual help, or pure innocent bystander. I think there were photos of the Boston bomber out almost within a day if I recall correctly. And they didn't know who they were looking for and where they were.
 
Also, news has reported that this guy was thinking he might escape, but how does someone plan a mass shooting like this all the way through and not factor in the fact that he's likely not getting out alive. He had cameras rigged in the entire hotel room and watching the peephole on the door. But the guy had more guns stashed in his house and car, along with explosives, so how does he get all his equipment into a hotel room without more than one car, if the one car they found is full of more weapons and explosives.

Just all questions I'm trying to answer. And I believe the authorities have more answers than they're revealing at the moment, although I don't think it's necessarily a conspiracy... just a lot of odd details about this whole story.
 
Smiling_Tiger said:
What the hell did you do in Vegas for 5 days? I can't stay more than 3 at a time.
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Lots of conferences keep you there a long time. I'm with you, 3 days is about my limit. I can see how he got it all the stuff up there. I've had equipment in my room for conventions too, it's just part of how it works there.

I still can't get over the fact that no one close to him thought he might have a screw loose. Not kill 59 people screw loose, but it's all way too innocent sounding to me.
 
"They" said there were a couple of other possible targets he was looking at (Lallapalooza and Fenway Park). A country music festival, Lallapalooza and Fenway Park all have one thing in common. There are going to be a shitload of white people there. I am not saying that white people were the specific target (because all three would also simply have a ton of people in a confined area with no easy means of egress), just something that crossed my mind when I heard those three places.
 
cutigers532 said:
Nah I haven't... Just trying to think it through. I know that obviously when tragedy strikes, people want to to be able to explain it, and you can't explain crazy, but there's still a lot of holes in the story. And I'm not saying the news is screwing us out of information, even though there's a lot about the general news media I don't trust, but there's just a lot of intangibles that haven't been explained.
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That's a very large hotel & casino. I stayed there about 4 years ago but I stayed in the smaller tower The Hotel behind the main hotel. The hotel lobbies are about half the size of Death Valley and usually attach to the casinos, which in MB is the size of about 6 indoor practice arenas, if not larger. They process thousands of people on a weekly basis.
 
utgolfer said:
It was the most dangerous though-as far as getting spotted/caught . So I am curious how careful he had to be to get it done. A heavy bag full of metal falling over would make a distinct sound, or having a hard time getting it out of a trunk, you would need to be a bit careful with that.
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Excellent point. Was it possible? Absolutely. Is it probable? I lean towards no.

I will say that I just got back from a trade show at Mandalay Bay. I stayed at the MGM Grand. Over the course of 4 days, I walked through the casino and convention center areas of MB rolling a travel golf club case sized piece of equipment at least 6 times. So could he have done it alone over the course of 3-4 days, certainly.

Where it falls apart for me is that absolutely no video footage of the guy has surfaced yet. I'm guessing that Homeland Security slapped some Patriot Act shit on Mandalay Bay management.
 
scott in cincy said:
Lots of conferences keep you there a long time. I'm with you, 3 days is about my limit. I can see how he got it all the stuff up there. I've had equipment in my room for conventions too, it's just part of how it works there.

I still can't get over the fact that no one close to him thought he might have a screw loose. Not kill 59 people screw loose, but it's all way too innocent sounding to me.
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Yeah. I didn't think about conventions. I haven't been there for work in about 10 years. Now, I just go to gamble and I just have to get out after a short stay.
 
Question for you @amynhop. Why would there be a cover up and to what purpose? I can see if you were killing a specific person or something like that, but honestly who would cover up shooting up a country music event?

I don't see anything that this guy did that I couldn't have done EASILY. 800 lbs of equipment. That's 8 trips back and forth to the car over several hours (less if you borrowed a dolly from the front desk). With the butt stocks for the AR-15s, they are already in a easily broken down into a couple of 2 ft sections. Use blankets or some type of cloth to wrap metal equipment for silence. So equipment ... no problem.

I don't see the glass as a problem either. You can buy glass cutters anywhere. Home Depot would do. A few good quality suction cups and some rope to put reverse tension on the glass and it falls backinto the room. The glass is REALLY thick... I'd suspect that he cut most of the way through then shattered it with a hammer.

Pouring high powered nearly full automatic rifle fire into a nearly solid mass of people from 300 yards away? Child's play for a .223 round AR-15. Especially if he had something to prop on.

So while I have no info one way or the other, I am a big Occam fan...
 
scott in cincy said:
Lots of conferences keep you there a long time. I'm with you, 3 days is about my limit. I can see how he got it all the stuff up there. I've had equipment in my room for conventions too, it's just part of how it works there.

I still can't get over the fact that no one close to him thought he might have a screw loose. Not kill 59 people screw loose, but it's all way too innocent sounding to me.
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His brother did make the statement that "you won't have anyone say he was a normal guy" or something similar. A lot of his neighbor's did not like him, said he was aloof and treated his GF like crap. News reported today he visited hookers a lot and they said he was cheap and never showed emotion.
 
hopefultiger13 said:
Question for you @amynhop. Why would there be a cover up and to what purpose? I can see if you were killing a specific person or something like that, but honestly who would cover up shooting up a country music event?

I don't see anything that this guy did that I couldn't have done EASILY. 800 lbs of equipment. That's 8 trips back and forth to the car over several hours (less if you borrowed a dolly from the front desk). With the butt stocks for the AR-15s, they are already in a easily broken down into a couple of 2 ft sections. Use blankets or some type of cloth to wrap metal equipment for silence. So equipment ... no problem.

I don't see the glass as a problem either. You can buy glass cutters anywhere. Home Depot would do. A few good quality suction cups and some rope to put reverse tension on the glass and it falls backinto the room. The glass is REALLY thick... I'd suspect that he cut most of the way through then shattered it with a hammer.

Pouring high powered nearly full automatic rifle fire into a nearly solid mass of people from 300 yards away? Child's play for a .223 round AR-15. Especially if he had something to prop on.

So while I have no info one way or the other, I am a big Occam fan...
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I have no idea the reasoning on anything. I'm not going to speculate on any conspiracy theory. Just seems odd to me that Paddock, with his background, carried this out alone. One small thing... don't know that it means anything. When I first heard story on news, said the police shot him. Then it was reported suicide.
 
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cutigers532 said:
Nah I haven't... Just trying to think it through. I know that obviously when tragedy strikes, people want to to be able to explain it, and you can't explain crazy, but there's still a lot of holes in the story. And I'm not saying the news is screwing us out of information, even though there's a lot about the general news media I don't trust, but there's just a lot of intangibles that haven't been explained.
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http://yournewswire.com/las-vegas-video-multiple-shootes/
Disregard the drivel and watch the videos
 
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utgolfer said:
According to @iceheart08 and @dbjork6317 , that makes you a tinfoil hat wearing, infowars loving, 9/11 truther. You can always count on those guys for some good civil discourse.

I too would like to know how he managed to acquire that armada, and some other logistical stuff, before I felt comfortable that he did this totally unaided. He may have, lets just get the details wrapped up.
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I have no problem with a man making $5mil a year buying a lot of weapons and getting them into a hotel room. That's easy.

amynhop said:
Well he got about 400 lbs of equipment up 30 floors and set up a concealed sniper nest. He disarmed fire alarms and and security systems in casino. He removed an 800 lb hurricane glass and for 10 min continuously ran a fully automatic weapon. All with no training and no motive? And he's an out of shape 64 year old man. Seems odd to me.
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I'm a 52 year old engineer with no training. I can do all of that. The hardest part might be the window, but you could rig up a pullly system to hold the window and set it on the floor.
 
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