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"Thoughts and Prayers"

My daughters are in HS. Within the last month, on BACK TO BACK days, kids had a gun in their school: one was a 15 year old boy and one was a 17 year old girl.

My wife teaches elementary school. 5th grade. Within the last 30 days, a boy asked if he could bring a knife to school (which she had to report). Later, the same boy, was found to be searching online on his school computer, "how to buy a Glock." He had previous documented threats against other kids in school. He's no longer in school.

Teachers are quitting in unbelievable numbers in SC. I believe we are short 3400 teachers. Do you know why they quit? The kids', even the very young, behavior is horrible. Truly horrible. They have zero respect for authority. And bullying between students is rampant. My wife showed me a note she took from a girl who was bullying another girl. The hatred in it was sad. Very sad.

There's a problem in this country and it starts in the home. What happened in Texas is heart breaking. Things like that should never happen in life. Guns aren't the problem though. A home where the parent is so detached from the child that they don't know what the child is doing/dealing with is the issue.

And why do we think government legislation prevents any of this? There are tons of federal and state laws designed to fight drugs. Have they worked? Do we still have illegal drugs in this country? Do people still die of overdoses? Are crimes still committed to traffic, buy and sell drugs? There are lots of gun laws already. Why do we think there's some magic piece of legislation out there that will stop mass shootings? The fact is, there isn't any. If you want to take someone's life, there's not much out there to stop you if you are determined.

So Congressmen will beat their chest and demand action. Special interest groups will cry, "no more!" But the end of the day there is nothing the government can really do about this.
 
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PawsFan_ said:
My daughters are in HS. Within the last month, on BACK TO BACK days, kids had a gun in their school: one was a 15 year old boy and one was a 17 year old girl.

My wife teaches elementary school. 5th grade. Within the last 30 days, a boy asked if he could bring a knife to school (which she had to report). Later, the same boy, was found to be searching online on his school computer, "how to buy a Glock." He had previous documented threats against other kids in school. He's no longer in school.

Teachers are quitting in unbelievable numbers in SC. I believe we are short 3400 teachers. Do you know why they quit? The kids', even the very young, behavior is horrible. Truly horrible. They have zero respect for authority. And bullying between students is rampant. My wife showed me a note she took from a girl who was bullying another girl. The hatred in it was sad. Very sad.

There's a problem in this country and it starts in the home. What happened in Texas is heart breaking. Things like that should never happen in life. Guns aren't the problem though. A home where the parent is so detached from the child that they don't know what the child is doing/dealing with is the issue.

And why do we think government legislation prevents any of this? There are tons of federal and state laws designed to fight drugs. Have they worked? Do we still have illegal drugs in this country? Do people still die of overdoses? Are crimes still committed to traffic, buy and sell drugs? There are lots of gun laws already. Why do we think there's some magic piece of legislation out there that will stop mass shootings? The fact is, there isn't any. If you want to take someone's life, there's not much out there to stop you if you are determined.

So Congressmen will beat their chest and demand action. Special interest groups will cry, "no more!" But the end of the day there is nothing the government can really do about this.
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Disagree with one point. What can be done is support for mental health training and curriculum. My wife created a curriculum that was done daily at her school. It was designed to help children diagnose their own emotions and feelings and decide how to appropriately handle those feelings. What was sad was how many parents complained about this program. It took 15 minutes each morning and parents bitched because they weren't "teaching".

There are some really alarming issues happening. One of which is related to screen time and usage by young kids. This has huge issues with brain development and is as addictive as heroin.

Parents suck. Full stop. Parents today suck, and they are my peers by and large. They are either disconnected, or they are concerned that their child doesn't ever get their feelings hurt. We have got to develop some coping skills.
 
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yoshi121374 said:
Disagree with one point. What can be done is support for mental health training and curriculum. My wife created a curriculum that was done daily at her school. It was designed to help children diagnose their own emotions and feelings and decide how to appropriately handle those feelings. What was sad was how many parents complained about this program. It took 15 minutes each morning and parents bitched because they weren't "teaching".

There are some really alarming issues happening. One of which is related to screen time and usage by young kids. This has huge issues with brain development and is as addictive as heroin.

Parents suck. Full stop. Parents today suck, and they are my peers by and large. They are either disconnected, or they are concerned that their child doesn't ever get their feelings hurt. We have got to develop some coping skills.
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I understand what you're saying but the reality is most kids can't overcome horrible parenting. Some do and it is by the Grace of God that they do. Your last paragraph about parents today is THE core issue in our society. Don't forget though a lot of those horrible parents are also teachers, administrators and board members. There's terrible everywhere. Fixing this starts by realizing public education is no longer viable as it exists today. We have to find a new way to do things. It's not because teachers suck or your wife is not doing her job. It's because the mechanisms we have in place just don't work in today's world. We do not have the apparatus in place to deal with things.
 
Willence said:
I understand what you're saying but the reality is most kids can't overcome horrible parenting. Some do and it is by the Grace of God that they do. Your last paragraph about parents today is THE core issue in our society. Don't forget though a lot of those horrible parents are also teachers, administrators and board members. There's terrible everywhere. Fixing this starts by realizing public education is no longer viable as it exists today. We have to find a new way to do things. It's not because teachers suck or your wife is not doing her job. It's because the mechanisms we have in place just don't work in today's world. We do not have the apparatus in place to deal with things.
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So what would you suggest in place of public education? Keep in mind public schools are a critical engine for our workforce, providing training and child care so current employees can work.
 
yoshi121374 said:
So what would you suggest in place of public education? Keep in mind public schools are a critical engine for our workforce, providing training and child care so current employees can work.
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Saying I don't support our current setup for public education doesn't mean I don't support education in general. Education is essential in any functioning society. But the data is self-evident. We are not serving our communities with public education. The test scores, success rates, functionality, cycles of poverty and hopelessness, etc. all clearly demonstrate that. We need a better system. One where the dollars follow the children. One where unions do not run things. There are lots of individual models I could cite. However, I don't have all the answers. I know I can be an ass but I am not so arrogant as to assume I can answer all these questions correctly. But I do know that if we first accept we need a new model then we can start working on the best ways to do things. Your wife would be imminently more qualified to help us correct where we've gone wrong than I am.

My kids go to private school. What they are receiving is so far superior to what kids experience in public school. It's not fair that my financial standing allows me to provide my children with such a commanding advantage. Financial standing shouldn't matter. And before you ask, my wife taught in public schools for 13 years. We know the difference based on experience and practice. Not just based on theory.
 
Willence said:
Saying I don't support our current setup for public education doesn't mean I don't support education in general. Education is essential in any functioning society. But the data is self-evident. We are not serving our communities with public education. The test scores, success rates, functionality, cycles of poverty and hopelessness, etc. all clearly demonstrate that. We need a better system. One where the dollars follow the children. One where unions do not run things. There are lots of individual models I could cite. However, I don't have all the answers. I know I can be an ass but I am not so arrogant as to assume I can answer all these questions correctly. But I do know that if we first accept we need a new model then we can start working on the best ways to do things. Your wife would be imminently more qualified to help us correct where we've gone wrong than I am.

My kids go to private school. What they are receiving is so far superior to what kids experience in public school. It's not fair that my financial standing allows me to provide my children with such a commanding advantage. Financial standing shouldn't matter. And before you ask, my wife taught in public schools for 13 years. We know the difference based on experience and practice. Not just based on theory.
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I would suggest that blanket statements such as private school is better isn't really factually true. My wife's district, Anderson One is exceptionally well run and has some of the highest achievement in the state. They get less with more and have an extremely diverse population economically and racially. Also, teachers aren't unionized in South Carolina.

Many Private schools, particularly Christian schools perform lower than public schools.

I would argue that we need to continue to explore new strategies in education, and support our systems. It's so damn frustrating to still read or hear daily, that we need to quit teaching Common Core, which HAS NEVER BEEN TAUGHT IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

I also wouldn't consider you an ass, and I appreciate that you are willing to have a discussion and are open to the concept that you don't have all the answers.
 
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yoshi121374 said:
I would suggest that blanket statements such as private school is better isn't really factually true. My wife's district, Anderson One is exceptionally well run and has some of the highest achievement in the state. They get less with more and have an extremely diverse population economically and racially. Also, teachers aren't unionized in South Carolina.

Many Private schools, particularly Christian schools perform lower than public schools.

I would argue that we need to continue to explore new strategies in education, and support our systems. It's so damn frustrating to still read or hear daily, that we need to quit teaching Common Core, which HAS NEVER BEEN TAUGHT IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

I also wouldn't consider you an ass, and I appreciate that you are willing to have a discussion and are open to the concept that you don't have all the answers.
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My kids have learned so much more in private school than what's on a test. But I would not argue that there aren't good public schools or good public school districts. I would argue that there are far more bad school districts that aren't serving their populations than we should tolerate. I have been a basketball official at the high school and low college level for much of my adult life. I've been to all level of schools both public and private. To say there is a night and day difference in the types of behavior I see would be an understatement. And those gaps have grown at an alarming rate in the last 15-20 years. We have to do better. We're not preparing our kids for success. We certainly aren't setting a good example for them.
 
Willence said:
Saying I don't support our current setup for public education doesn't mean I don't support education in general. Education is essential in any functioning society. But the data is self-evident. We are not serving our communities with public education. The test scores, success rates, functionality, cycles of poverty and hopelessness, etc. all clearly demonstrate that. We need a better system. One where the dollars follow the children. One where unions do not run things. There are lots of individual models I could cite. However, I don't have all the answers. I know I can be an ass but I am not so arrogant as to assume I can answer all these questions correctly. But I do know that if we first accept we need a new model then we can start working on the best ways to do things. Your wife would be imminently more qualified to help us correct where we've gone wrong than I am.

My kids go to private school. What they are receiving is so far superior to what kids experience in public school. It's not fair that my financial standing allows me to provide my children with such a commanding advantage. Financial standing shouldn't matter. And before you ask, my wife taught in public schools for 13 years. We know the difference based on experience and practice. Not just based on theory.
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To make the rather broad statement that public education isn't accomplishing what it should is pretty far fetched. There are plenty of very good public school systems out there and just because some kid is attending a private school doesn't necessarily mean he's getting a superior education. The one advantage private schools do have over public schools is when some kid starts f'ing up the private school can unload him, no questions asked. Unfortunately, it isn't that simple for public schools
 
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other1 said:
Perhaps your wife wasn't teaching in a very good system but to make the rather broad statement that public education isn't accomplishing what it should is pretty far fetched. There are plenty of very good public school systems out there and just because some kid is attending a private school doesn't necessarily mean he's getting a superior education.
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The reality is that with parents like @Willence and his wife his kids are gonna be fine whether in Private School or public school. They have parental support,and probably are privy to a stable household and all tools that they need.

Success has far less to do with the teach/school and far more to do with the parents,support system,and the trauma in the household.

Private school kids do fine because they are private school kids. It's a mostly self fulfilling situation
 
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yoshi121374 said:
The reality is that with parents like @Willence and his wife his kids are gonna be fine whether in Private School or public school. They have parental support,and probably are privy to a stable household and all tools that they need.

Success has far less to do with the teach/school and far more to do with the parents,support system,and the trauma in the household.

Private school kids do fine because they are private school kids. It's a mostly self fulfilling situation
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The parental support thing is crucial. Putting everything on the school system and its teachers is asking a lot.
 
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Willence said:
This has always been your problem. You're a perfect example of why nothing gets done. You want to win. You want your way. You didn't even answer the questions and comments I posed in my earlier post. You can't do that because you're like a robocall. It's a pre-recorded message that comes out every time you post. When it comes to discussion, you seem to be incapable of that. Bet if you actually talked about things we could come to quite a few conclusions upon which we'd agree. But I suspect you're never going to bother to make that effort because you know the stuff you are spouting doesn't add up to much.
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No no no, he’s the fairest and most rational person on this message board. He would never play partisan politics. Just ask him.
 
Willence said:
We don't always agree, but I know you are a person of good faith. I'd like to ask you a couple questions about this part of your post.

Most mass shooters pass background checks. The most recent two did pass them and they purchased their weapons legally. Do you think if they had to wait more it would have helped? The states with the longest waiting periods have the highest rates of gun violence. What evidence is there to suggest this would work? How many mass shooters used weapons illegally obtained? How many used weapons purchased in person to person sales?

FWIW, I would 100% support waiting periods and third party regulation of person to person sales. We allow young men and women to join the military and use weapons at 18. Would raising the age really help? If we think so, then I could even get on board with that. It is conceivable that raising the age would have impacted the ability to obtain a weapon for the most recent shooters.
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I think raising the age to 21 may be a good idea to curb school shootings. Maybe. Most of these freaks are in or are fresh out of high school where they’ve been emotionally damaged in some way. By 21 the urge to get revenge may be totally gone or have waned

But at the end of the day, where there’s a will there’s a way, so I doubt it would help much. Couldn’t hurt to try. None of the other ideas that are being thrown make any sense whatsoever
 
Note: Learned a little while ago from my wife that a SEVEN YEAR OLD had a handgun in his back pack and Sandlapper Elementary School today. I wondered why the Richland PD were there when I drove by it on my way home tonight.

I'll agree to one piece of legislation, gun owners need to GO TO JAIL if their kid takes their gun to school. There is no excuse to have an unsecured gun in your home if you have kids.
 
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Cocks are Number 1 said:
Were you a good decision maker at 18 years old? A 3 day waiting period would hurt nothing, and I own an arsenal, ARs included.

No, I don’t want the government controlling the prices of guns. To @dpic73 ‘s credit, he didn’t say that either.
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I think the shooter bought the guns two days prior. To be clear, I am not against a waiting period, but I don't think it would have mattered in this instance.
 
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dpic73 said:
Well aren't you just a little ray of pitch black.

Your anecdotal evidence means nothing as I highly doubt it's normal for most 10 year olds to receive guns as gifts. The shooter waited until the day after he turned 18 to buy two AR15s, so how can you know that a law that required him to wait until he was 21 wouldn't have helped? Or a law that prevented the average citizen from buying an AR15?

If you believe that NOTHING would have helped it just means that you don't have the willingness to come up with creative solutions. This is the greatest country on earth in many regards, but not on this issue. We can and should do more.

We will never prevent all gun deaths but we can damn sure prevent some of them, if we care enough.
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I wish we cared more about cancer, heart disease, etc. We must not give a crap about about all the people dying from these diseases or we would do something about it - if we cared enough, right?

Caring and wanting something to change does not mean there is always something you can do to make a meaningful difference. I am all for changes that would stop things like this. I have just not heard any that would likely make much difference.

There have been some suggestions that I would be in favor of. A waiting period and having proof of a background check that is required for person to person sales are two I can think of. While I think these are generally good ideas, they will not make much difference in gun homicides. I would also be in favor of stiffer penalties for people who commit crimes in possession of a weapon and for those caught in possession of a weapon illegally, which I don't think has been mentioned.
 
CoffeeIsForClosers said:
Again…2 year anniversary of Floyd’s death announcement had been planned for quite a while. Civil rights have everything to do with what he’s fighting for, but again….for many it’s a lot easier on the conscience to hate someone for their politics than for their fight for equal rights.
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Civil rights have nothing to do with 19 innocent people getting killed.....zilch.
 
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yoshi121374 said:
He had not been in trouble, but there were some red flags, and he had been posting alarming things on his social media. That's why I suggest a waiting period.

Maybe we make a first step that under 26 (arbitrary number I suggest since insurance companies use it for reduced cost for insurance) there is a one week waiting period
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All those red flags were right before the shooting. There was no known history of this. Also, it is not practical to expect an agency to be able to go over every social media post, like, etc. someone has ever made- not even sure that is possible.
 
other1 said:
To make the rather broad statement that public education isn't accomplishing what it should is pretty far fetched. There are plenty of very good public school systems out there and just because some kid is attending a private school doesn't necessarily mean he's getting a superior education. The one advantage private schools do have over public schools is when some kid starts f'ing up the private school can unload him, no questions asked. Unfortunately, it isn't that simple for public schools
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one side spends 50+ years trying to defund public education and ties public education funding into something asinine like local property taxes and has the gall to bitch about how "public education sucks."

no shit it sucks - you've spent decades doing all you can to make it fail and then act surprised when it ends up being shitty. know where there's good public schools? wealthy areas. know where there's shitty public schools? urban and rural areas. i wonder why that is?
 
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WapPride said:
jesus christ who cares that obama tweeted about george floyd? why does something as small as that anger you so much. dem derangement syndrome man
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Yeah you and your boys totally didn’t spend the last 5 years throwing histrionic fits over LITERALLY everything 45 said

Good god you people have zero introspection
 
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CUT93 said:
I wish we cared more about cancer, heart disease, etc. We must not give a crap about about all the people dying from these diseases or we would do something about it - if we cared enough, right?

Caring and wanting something to change does not mean there is always something you can do to make a meaningful difference. I am all for changes that would stop things like this. I have just not heard any that would likely make much difference.

There have been some suggestions that I would be in favor of. A waiting period and having proof of a background check that is required for person to person sales are two I can think of. While I think these are generally good ideas, they will not make much difference in gun homicides. I would also be in favor of stiffer penalties for people who commit crimes in possession of a weapon and for those caught in possession of a weapon illegally, which I don't think has been mentioned.
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I'm not going to tell you to STFU but I really want to. What I will say is I hope I never hire somebody like you.
Is your middle name CAN'T?
 
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jakefest said:
Obama made them one in his entirely inappropriate and insensitive tweet, which you defended and supported about 9 hours ago.
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and as I said then and I say now….he made two separate statements on that day. The first about the events in Texas. The second was a preplanned announcement on the second anniversary of an event that is still very fresh in the hearts of many in this country (a civil rights issue).

When he made the statement about the events in Texas, he did not mention GFloyd once. Didn’t even begin to. Hours later as he was making his announcement surrounding the anniversary of GFloyd, he first paid respect (again) the the events in Texas.

George Floyd/BLM/civil rights bring a lot to the surface….I’m not saying that’s what is going on here, but I can tell you that no one is mad at him for what he said in reverence about the events in Texas hours earlier in the day. It’s once Floyd’s name was uttered that everyone got all pissed off about Obama being disrespectful. Coincidence? I struggle to think so.
 
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TigerGrowls said:
The normalization of drugs is part of it.

alexberenson.substack.com

Cannabis causes psychosis. Psychosis causes violence.

Yep, there it is, the first reference to cannabis use by Salvador Ramos, the Texas elementary school killer. In the New York Times. Took 24 hour…
alexberenson.substack.com alexberenson.substack.com
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Lmao now your are pulling out 60’s propaganda? What conspiracy is this now?

reefer-marijuana.gif
 
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JoeBidenSniffsKids said:
Yeah you and your boys totally didn’t spend the last 5 years throwing histrionic fits over LITERALLY everything 45 said

Good god you people have zero introspection
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🤔

You have to admit that is a bit of an apples and oranges situation here. We are talking about an ex-president tweeting about social issues versus a sitting president tweeting fondly about enemies of the state….
 
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