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Trump 2024

It's certainly nothing to complain about either - unless you're a whiny MAGA grievance poster.
It is. He released oil from the strategic reserves and its sold at market rates so 4b is not surprising. He blatantly did it to help the dems in the midterms too and that was the only reason why. The price of gas is now going back up fast too. F*#K good for nothing brandon.
 
It is. He released oil from the strategic reserves and its sold at market rates so 4b is not surprising. He blatantly did it to help the dems in the midterms too and that was the only reason why. The price of gas is now going back up fast too. F*#K good for nothing brandon.
You whined about gas prices incessantly. You whined when he addressed it - it worked for a while and that helped people who were struggling. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He could cure cancer and you'd whine about it because that's all you MAGAs do. All grievance, all the time.
 
You whined about gas prices incessantly. You whined when he addressed it - it worked for a while and that helped people who were struggling. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He could cure cancer and you'd whine about it because that's all you MAGAs do. All grievance, all the time.
He did it to help himself and his fellow commie occupiers. The people's leader is working on his comeback and it will be a doozy.
 
He did it to help himself and his fellow commie occupiers. The people's leader is working on his comeback and it will be a doozy.
Is a doozy kinda like a giant red wave? Meanwhile the economy is doing just fine

"Many in the mainstream media greeted news on Thursday of robust 2.9 percent economic growth in the fourth quarter of 2022 with surprise — shock even. And on Friday, there was more good economic news: Inflation rates dropped in December compared with November, the sixth straight month of declines.

These numbers were often characterized as defying expectations of a recession or despite economic head winds. The Wall Street Journal proclaimed that even though last quarter’s growth was solid, the U.S. economy “entered this year with less momentum as rising interest rates and still-high inflation weighed on demand.” Almost comically, the Associated Press wanted to know: “How will we know if the US economy is in a recession?”
The better question: When will the mainstream media recognize good economic news for what it is?"


 
Is a doozy kinda like a giant red wave? Meanwhile the economy is doing just fine

"Many in the mainstream media greeted news on Thursday of robust 2.9 percent economic growth in the fourth quarter of 2022 with surprise — shock even. And on Friday, there was more good economic news: Inflation rates dropped in December compared with November, the sixth straight month of declines.

These numbers were often characterized as defying expectations of a recession or despite economic head winds. The Wall Street Journal proclaimed that even though last quarter’s growth was solid, the U.S. economy “entered this year with less momentum as rising interest rates and still-high inflation weighed on demand.” Almost comically, the Associated Press wanted to know: “How will we know if the US economy is in a recession?”
The better question: When will the mainstream media recognize good economic news for what it is?"



I don’t think they are reporting on good economic news because while those specific stats are good, others create a mixed picture about the economy. Consumer spending fell and we are seeing widespread layoffs, particularly in good paying sectors. Housing affordability is still an issue and sales have dropped off a cliff (down 34% YoY in SC in December).

That has nothing to do with politics. It is what it is. There are some good signals, but also plenty that suggest 2023 could be challenging.
 
I don’t think they are reporting on good economic news because while those specific stats are good, others create a mixed picture about the economy. Consumer spending fell and we are seeing widespread layoffs, particularly in good paying sectors. Housing affordability is still an issue and sales have dropped off a cliff (down 34% YoY in SC in December).

That has nothing to do with politics. It is what it is. There are some good signals, but also plenty that suggest 2023 could be challenging.
These are the direct result of the actions the Fed has taken to address inflation and exactly what we needed to happen. In other words, the plan is working.

The widespread layoffs are largely confined to the tech sector, due to oversealous hiring during the pandemic, so they're right-sizing to reflect current conditions. Higher interest rates and a volatile stock market are contributing factors as well as the fear of the unknown. This does not necessarily portend bad news for other sectors of the economy. My company is still hiring and our business is booming so things are great where I sit. Things just aren't that bad - they just aren't.
 
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These are the direct result of the actions the Fed has taken to address inflation and exactly what we needed to happen. In other words, the plan is working.

The widespread layoffs are largely confined to the tech sector, due to oversealous hiring during the pandemic, so they're right-sizing to reflect current conditions. Higher interest rates and a volatile stock market are contributing factors as well as the fear of the unknown. This does not necessarily portend bad news for other sectors of the economy. My company is still hiring and our business is booming so things are great where I sit. Things just aren't that bad - they just aren't.
Things are bad!! Worst 2 years of a presidency in modern history and it cannot be argued when looked at in whole instead of cherry picking a few stats.
 
Things are bad!! Worst 2 years of a presidency in modern history and it cannot be argued when looked at in whole instead of cherry picking a few stats.
You could have just said Nuh-uh because we know you don't know what you're talking about you partisan loon.

He's had a very consequential term so far with lots of accomplishments he can point to. He's had a couple **** ups too but YOU are the cherry picker by defining him by those alone. Suck it...
 
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You could have just said Nuh-uh because we know you don't know what you're talking about you partisan loon.

He's had a very consequential term so far with lots of accomplishments he can point to. He's had a couple **** ups too but YOU are the cherry picker by defining him by those alone. Suck it...
Wrong. Living in your bizarro alternate reality still.
 
These are the direct result of the actions the Fed has taken to address inflation and exactly what we needed to happen. In other words, the plan is working.

The widespread layoffs are largely confined to the tech sector, due to oversealous hiring during the pandemic, so they're right-sizing to reflect current conditions. Higher interest rates and a volatile stock market are contributing factors as well as the fear of the unknown. This does not necessarily portend bad news for other sectors of the economy. My company is still hiring and our business is booming so things are great where I sit. Things just aren't that bad - they just aren't.
We cannot even trust the stats either until a reasonable period of time passes and audits occur after these crooks over counted jobs just recently by around a million.
 
We cannot even trust the stats either until a reasonable period of time passes and audits occur after these crooks over counted jobs just recently by around a million.
Those stats are due to the BLS using a different method for collecting and analyzing the data than the Philadelphia Fed, as well as varying definitions of what constitutes a new job. Regardless, we added an average of 375,000 jobs a month in 2022, which indicates a hot job market no matter how you slice it. 4.5 million jobs added in addition to 6.7 million added the year before. Are you trying to tell me yall don't badly need workers at the overnight chicken plant? You know you do but you just needed another excuse to whine. All doom and gloom you are.....
 
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These are the direct result of the actions the Fed has taken to address inflation and exactly what we needed to happen. In other words, the plan is working.

The widespread layoffs are largely confined to the tech sector, due to oversealous hiring during the pandemic, so they're right-sizing to reflect current conditions. Higher interest rates and a volatile stock market are contributing factors as well as the fear of the unknown. This does not necessarily portend bad news for other sectors of the economy. My company is still hiring and our business is booming so things are great where I sit. Things just aren't that bad - they just aren't.

To a certain degree I suppose you can say this but the reality is far different and it's not something that we can be dealt with by the Fed. But it ties into one of the ironies that both sides mindlessly participate in that I've never understood.

The idea that is inherent with our economy is that it should thrive and grow independent of what the government does. We don't want a government run economy. That's the worst thing that could possibly happen. Yet we continuously try to give credit where credit is not due regardless of whether it's a Republican or a Democrat in the Oval Office. Certainly tax policy can either stimulate or slow the economy and government spending can also create problems for growth. Beyond that the government and any agency associated with it should have little to do with our economy. Only since we began granting so much power to the federal reserve did we start to see these enormous swings in our economic fortunes.

Which brings us back to your point about this current economy that we have which is a terrible economy. Last year was the only time in recorded history that the bond market and the stock market both lost 10%. That's never happened before and it's a sign of terrible monetary policy associated with a poor economy generally speaking. To which you will say but unemployment is low and things are going great. No they aren't! The true employment number is so much higher when associated with the labor force participation rate which is alarmingly low. Lower than at any point we've seen since the 1970s.

This problem can be directly correlated to government because of all the unemployment aid and additional benefits we have been providing to an extraordinarily high cost in terms of dollars at the federal and state level. This has disincentivized work. This is not something the Fed can work us out of but rather something that we're going to have to deal with that the government policy level. We are destroying our labor force.


Whichever side is in power will manipulate and distort our economic statistics. It is bad policy for the country for us to continue doing this. This isn't relevant to just one side but rather both sides. Economic data should be economic data and it should be crystal clear that the party in power is not responsible for our economic woes or successes. Right now the reality is that with muscular regulation and a lot of controls there is way too much power exerted on our economy by the holder of the presidency and Congress.

This is yet another item we need to deal with in this country. We need to stabilize our economy in such a way that we quit throwing an economic football back and forth depending on who's in power. It's really bad policy. An economy works best when it operates under predictable circumstances. Within the circumstances the less involvement that comes from the government the better for the economy in question. This is an economic law that is immutable regardless of what any one wants to say.
 
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Trump also sold oil from the strategic reserves to chinese companies. Why was he OK with it when he did it, but now has an issue when Biden does it?

Many presidents have sold but no one has depleted it the way Biden has. Here's the information from the government itself. Also in your world of justification through whataboutisms Trump was allowing drilling like crazy. Biden has depleted the reserve and has no real plan in place to replenish it.

 
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Many presidents have sold but no one has depleted it the way Biden has. Here's the information from the government itself. Also in your world of justification through whataboutisms Trump was allowing drilling like crazy. Biden has depleted the reserve and has no real plan in place to replenish it.


It’s almost as if Biden is dealing with an unprecedented global oil situation post covid.

And Biden has not stopped one oil company from drilling. Not one. They are sitting on thousands of permits and choosing not to drill.

Your takes are just getting worse and worse.
 
ury o a certain degree I suppose you can say this but the reality is far different and it's not something that we can be dealt with by the Fed. But it ties into one of the ironies that both sides mindlessly participate in that I've never understood.

The idea that is inherent with our economy is that it should thrive and grow independent of what the government does. We don't want a government run economy. That's the worst thing that could possibly happen. Yet we continuously try to give credit where credit is not due regardless of whether it's a Republican or a Democrat in the Oval Office. Certainly tax policy can either stimulate or slow the economy and government spending can also create problems for growth. Beyond that the government and any agency associated with it should have little to do with our economy. Only since we began granting so much power to the federal reserve did we start to see these enormous swings in our economic fortunes.

Which brings us back to your point about this current economy that we have which is a terrible economy. Last year was the only time in recorded history that the bond market and the stock market both lost 10%. That's never happened before and it's a sign of terrible monetary policy associated with a poor economy generally speaking. To which you will say but unemployment is low and things are going great. No they aren't! The true employment number is so much higher when associated with the labor force participation rate which is alarmingly low. Lower than at any point we've seen since the 1970s.

This problem can be directly correlated to government because of all the unemployment aid and additional benefits we have been providing to an extraordinarily high cost in terms of dollars at the federal and state level. This has disincentivized work. This is not something the Fed can work us out of but rather something that we're going to have to deal with that the government policy level. We are destroying our labor force.


Whichever side is in power will manipulate and distort our economic statistics. It is bad policy for the country for us to continue doing this. This isn't relevant to just one side but rather both sides. Economic data should be economic data and it should be crystal clear that the party in power is not responsible for our economic woes or successes. Right now the reality is that with muscular regulation and a lot of controls there is way too much power exerted on our economy by the holder of the presidency and Congress.

This is yet another item we need to deal with in this country. We need to stabilize our economy in such a way that we quit throwing an economic football back and forth depending on who's in power. It's really bad policy. An economy works best when it operates under predictable circumstances. Within the circumstances the less involvement that comes from the government the better for the economy in question. This is an economic law that is immutable regardless of what any one wants to say.
Oh great, another excuse for you to explain us that gubment bad. I'm not getting into another war of words with you but I'll just make a few points.
  1. The stock market is not the economy
  2. When Biden came into office COVID was at it's peak and the unemployment numbers were terrible, therefore he was handed a flaming bag of shit. He needed to do something and he needed to do it fast and he thought he was doing what was needed. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.
  3. The American Rescue Plan was instrumental in the job market we've seen the last couple of years and yes, it also added some to inflation, but it was responsible for less than 30%. But it also led to full employment and put the vaccine within arms reach of every American almost overnight, which gave businesses the confidence to quickly reopen. I can't find the article but I read somewhere that if the job market had progressed naturally, it would have added 1.6 million jobs by doing nothing. What he did led to the creation of 7.8 million jobs, hence it made a difference - a big one.
  4. Nothing you say applies to THIS situation. This was a once in a century set of events and there was no guidebook that supplied the answers. Your talking points apply to "pie in the sky" what you believe should happen under NORMAL conditions..... which these were not.
 
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Those stats are due to the BLS using a different method for collecting and analyzing the data than the Philadelphia Fed, as well as varying definitions of what constitutes a new job. Regardless, we added an average of 375,000 jobs a month in 2022, which indicates a hot job market no matter how you slice it. 4.5 million jobs added in addition to 6.7 million added the year before. Are you trying to tell me yall don't badly need workers at the overnight chicken plant? You know you do but you just needed another excuse to whine. All doom and gloom you are.....

You sure about those 2022 numbers? Here’s the BLS report showing about 1.5M added in Q1 and nearly 300K lost in Q2. That’s a net add of 1,258,000 for 6 months, or 210k/mo. That’s 56% of your stat.

But, the trend of additions reversed in Q2, so the official Q3 and Q4 numbers will really tell the tale.

 
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Many presidents have sold but no one has depleted it the way Biden has. Here's the information from the government itself. Also in your world of justification through whataboutisms Trump was allowing drilling like crazy. Biden has depleted the reserve and has no real plan in place to replenish it.

Biden sold oil for the same reason that Trump did but under extraordinarily different circumstances. You can't compare the post-COVID economy to anything that happened before. Stop being dense.

 
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You sure about those 2022 numbers? Here’s the BLS report showing about 1.5M added in Q1 and nearly 300K lost in Q2. That’s a net add of 1,258,000 for 6 months, or 210k/mo. That’s 56% of your stat.

But, the trend of additions reversed in Q2, so the official Q3 and Q4 numbers will really tell the tale.

"Establishment Survey Data"

Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 223,000 in December. Notable job gains occurred in leisure and hospitality, health care, construction, and social assistance. Payroll employment rose by 4.5 million in 2022 (an average monthly gain of 375,000), less than the increase of 6.7 million in 2021 (an average monthly gain of 562,000). (See table B-1.)"


 
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Oh great, another excuse for you to explain us that gubment bad. I'm not getting into another war of words with you but I'll just make a few points.
  1. The stock market is not the economy
  2. When Biden came into office COVID was at it's peak and the unemployment numbers were terrible, therefore he was handed a flaming bag of shit. He needed to do something and he needed to do it fast and he thought he was doing what was needed. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.
  3. The American Rescue Plan was instrumental in the job market we've seen the last couple of years and yes, it also added some to inflation, but it was responsible for less than 30%. But it also led to full employment and put the vaccine within arms reach of every American almost overnight, which gave businesses the confidence to quickly reopen. I can't find the article but I read somewhere that if the job market had progressed naturally, it would have added 1.6 million jobs by doing nothing. What he did led to the creation of 7.8 million jobs, hence it made a difference - a big one.
  4. Nothing you say applies to THIS situation. This was a once in a century set of events and there was no guidebook that supplied the answers. Your talking points apply to "pie in the sky" what you believe should happen under NORMAL conditions..... which these were not.

When did I ever say that the stock market was the economy? Please point that out and I'll apologize for that statement. And that was your point number one which tells you how limp your argument is.

Sound fiscal policy is sound physical policy regardless of circumstance. We are always looking for a crisis or a reason to increase the amount of spending on the part of government. We're always looking for a reason to increase control. I do recognize that some government intervention was necessary during COVID. In fact it was essential to us not going into a deeper funk. Had our prior president not spent like a drunken sailor we would have had more resources to deal with the crisis given how hot the economy was before COVID.

That you think we have full employment is astonishing. I provided plenty of data to demonstrate that we have anything but full employment. One of the points of my post was that we need to stop going off the current unemployment number and use the true number instead. It's nothing without labor force participation.
 
It’s almost as if Biden is dealing with an unprecedented global oil situation post covid.

And Biden has not stopped one oil company from drilling. Not one. They are sitting on thousands of permits and choosing not to drill.

Your takes are just getting worse and worse.

You're not wrong about that. It's almost as if we need a plan to deal with this unprecedented shortage and restore supply. Amazing that we don't have one and that our energy department has failed completely in this area. That you believe the administration has not done things to limit production in terms of oil is staggering. I don't know how you get to that without divorcing yourself from reality which is pretty much what you do most of the time anyway. You can keep going down the list but the reality is eventually you get back to the fact where we are fundamentally unprepared at a governmental level in all cases regardless of which party is in power.

You keep trying to pin me as a partisan but I'm not. I'm a conservative who recognizes that both parties are filled with complete morons. I want nothing to do with either one of them though there are people in the parties that I do like and respect.
 
When did I ever say that the stock market was the economy? Please point that out and I'll apologize for that statement. And that was your point number one which tells you how limp your argument is.
:rolleyes:
Which brings us back to your point about this current economy that we have which is a terrible economy. Last year was the only time in recorded history that the bond market and the stock market both lost 10%.
 
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"Establishment Survey Data"

Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 223,000 in December. Notable job gains occurred in leisure and hospitality, health care, construction, and social assistance. Payroll employment rose by 4.5 million in 2022 (an average monthly gain of 375,000), less than the increase of 6.7 million in 2021 (an average monthly gain of 562,000). (See table B-1.)"



Does that factor in job losses to produce a net number vs gross? Because it doesn’t tie off to the numbers in my link, which clearly do show a net number as well as have the benefit of revision and adjustment for accuracy. We haven’t seen that for late 2022, so it would seem that data is less likely to be accurate.
 
That's a statistic. It's not saying that the stock market is the economy. You inferred that from what I said. All I quoted was that that's the only time it's ever happened and it is.
8fc319d0-c09e-400f-b9fa-2c0155ee79a4_text.gif
 
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Does that factor in job losses to produce a net number vs gross? Because it doesn’t tie off to the numbers in my link, which clearly do show a net number as well as have the benefit of revision and adjustment for accuracy. We haven’t seen that for late 2022, so it would seem that data is less likely to be accurate.
I guess we won't know how accurate they are then until we see the adjusted numbers but I'm only referencing what is known at the moment. Would it make that big a difference to you if the monthly numbers were 325,000 instead of 375,000? Either way it's alot.
 
I guess we won't know how accurate they are then until we see the adjusted numbers but I'm only referencing what is known at the moment. Would it make that big a difference to you if the monthly numbers were 325,000 instead of 375,000? Either way it's alot.

The bigger difference is if the Q2 trend continued. And that was a net loss of jobs. Quite a different narrative then. I guess we will see.
 
The bigger difference is if the Q2 trend continued. And that was a net loss of jobs. Quite a different narrative then. I guess we will see.
What I see firsthand, as well as what I hear from friends, comports with the BLS report. We need workers and you almost can't pay them enough to start because they have so many options - and we pay well.
 
Biden sold oil for the same reason that Trump did but under extraordinarily different circumstances. You can't compare the post-COVID economy to anything that happened before. Stop being dense.

What Trump did and how he did it was legit. What Biden did was bogus and wrong. Its that simple. LOL!
 
What I see firsthand, as well as what I hear from friends, comports with the BLS report. We need workers and you almost can't pay them enough to start because they have so many options - and we pay well.

I see some good and some bad. My company is doing great. Just offered a guy today in fact and I don’t keep a big team.

I’m in health tech though and the sector is struggling. Every day companies are doing major layoffs. You hear about big tech, but tons of smaller companies in various fields are in the same boat.

We’re VC funded and capital markets have tightened dramatically. Companies that were turning away funding a year ago are now panicking about runway. This will have an impact both on job losses and sluggish gross job growth throughout 2023.

And consumer spending and demand is waning. That will begin to impact jobs. Eggs are $9 or whatever. People will probably cut back on restaurants.

I don’t know what will happen. Most experts seem to suggest that we hit a recessionary period this year and see a rise in unemployment. Several I have read also suggest that we will end the year on an upswing.

But back to the BLS data. The only accurate numbers we have are good job growth in Q1 and then a massive inversion to job losses in Q2. Did that inversion persist? Did it rebound and did we actually add 3.2 million+ jobs in the second half of the year? Because that’s the number we would need to see for your post to be accurate.
 
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These are the direct result of the actions the Fed has taken to address inflation and exactly what we needed to happen. In other words, the plan is working.

The widespread layoffs are largely confined to the tech sector, due to oversealous hiring during the pandemic, so they're right-sizing to reflect current conditions. Higher interest rates and a volatile stock market are contributing factors as well as the fear of the unknown. This does not necessarily portend bad news for other sectors of the economy. My company is still hiring and our business is booming so things are great where I sit. Things just aren't that bad - they just aren't.
 
 
Thats silly as the house repubs have very little ability to pass any bills into law the next 2 years. They need to do what they can do though and throw some stuff up there and make the senate knock it down and they need to give China Joe a continuous proctal exam.
 
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