Trump 2024

[dpic73]

I also believed Covid came from the wuhan lab, turn out it was true! Remember when that was conspiracy? Bet you laughed at me then and called me names…

You should listen to me more often. Turns out a lot has come true lol

I laugh at you no matter what but there's two problems with your statement.

1) I haven't stated one way or the other if I thought it was true or not
2) Because WE STILL DON'T KNOW and we may never know. But to definitively say it's true, simply because you want to blame Fauci, is conspiratorial thinking that you can't prove.

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Declassified-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf

 

[Tiger Guru]

I laugh at you no matter what but there's two problems with your statement.

1) I haven't stated one way or the other if I thought it was true or not
2) Because WE STILL DON"T KNOW and we may never know. But to definitively say it's true, simply because you want to blame Fauci, is conspiratorial thinking that you can't prove.

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Declassified-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf

Im just picking at you man... it's too easy brother. I'll give it to you, at least you stand for something. I can respect that.

 

[dpic73]

Im just picking at you man... it's too easy brother. I'll give it to you, at least you stand for something. I can respect that.

Haha, and if I'm forced to be honest, you're one of the more likeable conspiracy theorists on the board. I can sense that you're willing to test your theories and learn from others and I applaud you for that. ;-)

 

[iceheart08]

Well, he has zero chance of winning, so you have nothing to worry about. I'm not sure the country can survive four more years of your party continuing to try and divide the country through bs claims of racism and bigotry being rampant and widely held positions of half the country, reckless massive spending and further expansions of of govt dependency and continued destruction of the self worth of millions of people via what is tantamount to indentured servitude.

Putting aside the rest of this somewhat nuts post, the problem isn't him winning, the problem is him losing. Only way we avoid some kind of major breaking point is if he loses the primary. Which, honestly, I think he will.

 

[okclem]

Not hyperbole. I'm not sure we can survive another 4 years of this nonsense. Your party is essentially threatening Arizona right now with a "peaceful civil war" if they don't do a "redo election." More and more people will refuse to accept the outcome, and eventually someone with some measure of authority is going to try and do something. Do we have the guardrails in place to prevent that effort from being successful?

It will get broader and louder and I'm not certain the republic will make it.

Just wait until Trump gets indicted.

 

[CUT93]

Yes. It's part of every service, as well as confession where the admit sins, work with their Priest to come up with prayers towards God to be forgiven and change behavior.

You realize that Catholicism is what all protestant denominations are based on don't you?

I do realize that. I also realize that they are not the same and that a primary reason there are protestant denominations is the very topic of discussion. I am not saying Catholics do not ask forgiveness of their sins, I am arguing how they think that forgiveness is administered. You can not go in a protestant church and ask the priest to forgive you of your sins.

 

[CUT93]

Putting aside the rest of this somewhat nuts post, the problem isn't him winning, the problem is him losing. Only way we avoid some kind of major breaking point is if he loses the primary. Which, honestly, I think he will.

I am not sure he loses the primary tbh. I am scared other candidates will split votes while trump supporters will obviously all vote for him.

 

[CUT93]

Just wait until Trump gets indicted.

When do think that will be and what do you think he will be indicted for?

 

[yoshi121374]

I do realize that. I also realize that they are not the same and that a primary reason there are protestant denominations is the very topic of discussion. I am not saying Catholics do not ask forgiveness of their sins, I am arguing how they think that forgiveness is administered. You can not go in a protestant church and ask the priest to forgive you of your sins.

This a common misconception. They aren't asking the Priest for forgiveness, they are asking the Priest to help them and to pray for them to God for forgiveness.

Catholic parishioners also pray directly to God when they pray the rosary, or when they pray the Lord's Prayer or Hail Mary.

 

[okclem]

When do think that will be and what do you think he will be indicted for?

I'm not interested in anymore conversations with you. No disrespect intended, I'm just not going to engage in whatever Socratic thing it is you're trying to do on this board.

 

[CUT93]

This a common misconception. They aren't asking the Priest for forgiveness, they are asking the Priest to help them and to pray for them to God for forgiveness.

Catholic parishioners also pray directly to God when they pray the rosary, or when they pray the Lord's Prayer or Hail Mary.

So a catholic priest does not tell you if your sins are forgiven? He just prays with you and hopes God forgives of your sins and you just leave the confessional not knowing?

 

[okclem]

My biggest concern about a 2 year Trump campaign, is that's a long time for him to lean into the absolute worst elements of his base. The real hardliners, racists, nationalists, qanon conspiracy theorists, etc. He has to grow that base in order to have any chance, because he has to replace a lot of independent and moderate republican voters. It's going to be an uneasy two years.

 

[CUT93]

I'm not interested in anymore conversations with you. No disrespect intended, I'm just not going to engage in whatever Socratic thing it is you're trying to do on this board.

Funny, you are the one that responded to my post that was not directed towards you.

 

[yoshi121374]

So a catholic priest does not tell you if your sins are forgiven? He just prays with you and hopes God forgives of your sins and you just leave the confessional not knowing?

I am not Catholic,so I have not gone through a confession personally, but my understanding is the Priest prays for you, and prays over you to God for your forgiveness. But, you have already spoken your sins, asked God for forgiveness, and stated that you won't do this again.

The Priest isn't the one forgiving you, they are assisting and providing guidance in how to ask God for forgiveness and how you should lead your life loving forward.

It's really not much different than any protestant denominations. The Priest is prominent,but the parishioners forgiveness depends on the parishioner to ask forgiveness from God.

No Clergy knows if God forgives you since they can't see what's in your heart, but they can provid guidance on how best to communicate with God and live your life based on the Biblical principals.

 

[okclem]

Funny, you are the one that responded to my post that was not directed towards you.

Yeah, well, sometimes you step in it.

 

[CUT93]

Yeah, well, sometimes you step in it.

LOL, we all do!

 

[CUT93]

I am not Catholic,so I have not gone through a confession personally, but my understanding is the Priest prays for you, and prays over you to God for your forgiveness. But, you have already spoken your sins, asked God for forgiveness, and stated that you won't do this again.

The Priest isn't the one forgiving you, they are assisting and providing guidance in how to ask God for forgiveness and how you should lead your life loving forward.

It's really not much different than any protestant denominations. The Priest is prominent,but the parishioners forgiveness depends on the parishioner to ask forgiveness from God.

No Clergy knows if God forgives you since they can't see what's in your heart, but they can provid guidance on how best to communicate with God and live your life based on the Biblical principals.

I am not catholic either, but basically the belief is that God delegated his authority to priests to forgive sins, through him. Kind of like a boss in any organization can delegate his authority to those below him. You confess to the priest and the priest basically tells you what is required of you(through works/deeds/etc) for your sins to be forgiven.

 

[iceheart08]

I am not sure he loses the primary tbh. I am scared other candidates will split votes while trump supporters will obviously all vote for him.

Yea. Establishment Rs need a viable candidate and they need that person to gather momentum quickly. Idk if desantis is that person. Either way, this person needs to start being public about their run very very soon.

 

[yoshi121374]

I am not catholic either, but basically the belief is that God delegated his authority to priests to forgive sins, through him. Kind of like a boss in any organization can delegate his authority to those below him. You confess to the priest and the priest basically tells you what is required of you(through works/deeds/etc) for your sins to be forgiven.

Not really true, however, the Priest does have much more authority than the pastors in a protestant church. That was the issue with selling indulgences that lead to Martin Luther and protestantism.

the Priesthood of the local believer is one of the major tenets of the Southern Baptist church for example. The Baptists don't believe that they need any priest or anyone to assist/ pray for them to God.

different belief system, and there are all sorts of variations between these beliefs throughout Christian denominations.

Southerners traditionally were very anti-catholic due to fear of Rome and the Pope. This still is an issue today as evidenced by the Conspiracy Theories that believe that the Pope is the antichrist. This has been espoused on this site by areeves.

I am a 3rd generation preachers kid, and I am on staff at an Episcopal Church. I am fascinated by Denominations and differences/similarities. I personally feel that like politics, what separates us, is not near as important as what unites us. We are much more similar than different.

 

[other1]

Yea. Establishment Rs need a viable candidate and they need that person to gather momentum quickly. Idk if desantis is that person. Either way, this person needs to start being public about their run very very soon.

How about Liz Cheney??? She's one of the very few Rs with a backbone.

 

[CUT93]

Yea. Establishment Rs need a viable candidate and they need that person to gather momentum quickly. Idk if desantis is that person. Either way, this person needs to start being public about their run very very soon.

Yeah, I just don't see that happening. I'll say again what I have said repeatedly. Dems will hold their nose and put aside differences for the good of the party where pubs will not. Pubs tend to stick to their beliefs much more so than dems.
From my point of view there are basically three factions of the pub party now. Trump, conservatives, and the establishment. There are pretty big differences among those groups and I am not sure any of them are willing to cross over. The funny thing is that trump probably aligns more with with the establishment from a policy perspective than conservatives.

True conservatives do not want trump bc he is willing to spend $$$ like a drunken sailor along with the dem party. Despite what they would tell you, the establishment's main objection to trump is that they can not control him. I think both mostly agree he is not a great human being. Then again, I don't think the vast majority of presidential candidates are, including the current one.

I am a conservative, particularly from a fiscal perspective. Though I am certainly right of center in my personal moral/religious beliefs, I am more libertarian in my political stance on social issues. My overriding desire is for less govt in all aspects of my life and that most of that involvement be decided at the lowest level of govt possible. There are things the fed has to handle such as defense, border/sovereignty issues and immigration. From a border/immigration perspective I think anyone entering the country illegally should be sent back with very few exceptions. You can not reward illegal/bad behavior, it only encourages more of the same. I think this has been proven of=vet he last 30-40 years. On the flip side, I think we need MASSIVE expansion of the immigration dept so that we can deal with legal immigration requests in something that resembles a timely manner rather than the disgraceful excuse of a department we have now. I am not saying becoming a citizen should simply be a matter of applying and getting a rubber stamp in 30 days or less, but the atrocity we have now is ridiculous. Leave most of the rest up to the states to deal with, obviously within the confines of the constitution.

Since fiscal issues are of primary concern to me I would put myself in the conservative category, but I would not hesitate to support an establishment candidate if that is what it takes to keep trump from getting the nomination. I think I am in the minority in the willingness to do so, though.

 

[CUT93]

Not really true, however, the Priest does have much more authority than the pastors in a protestant church. That was the issue with selling indulgences that lead to Martin Luther and protestantism.

the Priesthood of the local believer is one of the major tenets of the Southern Baptist church for example. The Baptists don't believe that they need any priest or anyone to assist/ pray for them to God.

different belief system, and there are all sorts of variations between these beliefs throughout Christian denominations.

Southerners traditionally were very anti-catholic due to fear of Rome and the Pope. This still is an issue today as evidenced by the Conspiracy Theories that believe that the Pope is the antichrist. This has been espoused on this site by areeves.

I am a 3rd generation preachers kid, and I am on staff at an Episcopal Church. I am fascinated by Denominations and differences/similarities. I personally feel that like politics, what separates us, is not near as important as what unites us. We are much more similar than different.

The bold the key point. The only way one could think that have the power/authority to sell indulgences is if they have the power/authority to forgive them. No matter if you believe this authority is innate or delegated from God, you still must believe you have the ability and that it is not God's alone. Episcopals, and possibly Lutherans, are the closest thing to catholics there are in the protestants denomination. They also represent only a small percentage of protestant believers.
The majority of protestants do not believe they need priests to assist them in praying to God. None of the Baptists, Presbyterians or Methodists I know believe they need help from the priest to pray or be forgiven of their sins - and they make up a very large majority of the protestant church.

 

[yoshi121374]

The bold the key point. The only way one could think that have the power/authority to sell indulgences is if they have the power/authority to forgive them. No matter if you believe this authority is innate or delegated from God, you still must believe you have the ability and that it is not God's alone. Episcopals, and possibly Lutherans, are the closest thing to catholics there are in the protestants denomination. They also represent only a small percentage of protestant believers.
The majority of protestants do not believe they need priests to assist them in praying to God. None of the Baptists, Presbyterians or Methodists I know believe they need help from the priest to pray or be forgiven of their sins - and they make up a very large majority of the protestant church.

And the Catholics no longer sell indulgences,or support that concept. That happened in 1517. Things have changed since then.

 

[scotchtiger]

Yea. Establishment Rs need a viable candidate and they need that person to gather momentum quickly. Idk if desantis is that person. Either way, this person needs to start being public about their run very very soon.

The way forward isn’t establishment or Trump. The GOP needs a fvcking enema and a new direction. And some real policy that people can get behind. There’s plenty of room in the middle for them if they can figure out how to pivot away from Trumpism without losing too many MAGA voters. But that’s easier said than done.

I hope they figure it out. I’m basically without a party at this point and there are a lot of people like me.

 

[yoshi121374]

The way forward isn’t establishment or Trump. The GOP needs a fvcking enema and a new direction. And some real policy that people can get behind. There’s plenty of room in the middle for them if they can figure out how to pivot away from Trumpism without losing too many MAGA voters. But that’s easier said than done.

I hope they figure it out. I’m basically without a party at this point and there are a lot of people like me.

I'm with you friend.

 

[TigerGrowls]

I don't think yall understand that moderates won't vote for Trump in the general election. thats why he will lose. It has nothing to do with the republican primary. I'm voting red no matter who but the 20% in the middle won't!

Yall need to beat him in the primaries then if that's your opinion. I am 100% on the Trump Train.

 

[scotchtiger]

Yall need to beat him in the primaries then if that's your opinion. I am 100% on the Trump Train.

I’ll start a new thread on this, but start compiling your thoughts on how Trump can win the presidency in 2024. He needs to win all of the states he won in 2020 plus 3-4 more. And those states all just voted for dems in statewide elections over Trump endorsed candidates.

Looking forward to you laying out the logical path to victory for Trump. Because if you are on the Trump Train, you surely have a good, clear-eyed sense of how he will win.

 

[firegiver]

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."


On a completely separate note. Steve Bannon stole all that build the wall money and was pardoned. He literally stole trump supporters money. . And they love him.

 

[firegiver]

Ok and thats fine with me that you stand by and proudly exclaim your opinion on us republicans here in the US.

Trump and his followers. Not Republicans. Trump is just a fascist no matter what party he claims.

 

[firegiver]

Maga republican are still republicans, no?

I think one of the articles sited sources saying he compared republicans to terrorists in the past.
Also one article citing a dem rep suggesting calling all republicans terrorists.

Still, you could substitute extremists for terrorists. The exact word is not so relevant, it is the message. Some more of his quotes:

“Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic,” Biden said. “As I stand here tonight, equality and democracy are under assault. We do ourselves no favour to pretend otherwise.”

"Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic."

“The MAGA Republicans don’t just threaten our personal rights and economic security. They’re a threat to our very democracy,”

"The president thinks that there is an extremist threat to our democracy,"

Again, if any of those quotes were from trump with democrat substituted for republicans, they would have all been used as proof of inciting a coup attempt/resurrection/ or whatever other ridiculous characterization of Jan 6 you want to use.

Ok so now do republicans calling dems demons and child molesters.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Not hyperbole. I'm not sure we can survive another 4 years of this nonsense. Your party is essentially threatening Arizona right now with a "peaceful civil war" if they don't do a "redo election." More and more people will refuse to accept the outcome, and eventually someone with some measure of authority is going to try and do something. Do we have the guardrails in place to prevent that effort from being successful?

It will get broader and louder and I'm not certain the republic will make it.

Then why is the dem party in AZ taking actions that lead to distrust in the voting process? Dem run Maricopa County had 30% of voting machines not working and then went to court to fight repub requests to have voting hours extended. There is not one F**King logical reason to do that especially from the party trying everything possible to facilitate more voting.

Run the fricking elections transparently with integrity and all objections will disappear.

 

[TigerRagRob]

I'm not mad, I'm disappointed that this scumbag keeps having idiots buy his bullshit. I continue to have hope that people will wake the hell up and see him for what he is.

I'm disappointed because I hoped we would see a substantive debate over issues and that is probably not going to happen now since Trump can't actually debate issues, and all he will do is lower the discussion into insults and making himself a victim.

I'm disappointed because Trump is the worst part of America. I really, really hope Republicans will shun his garbage this time. I pray that @scotchtiger and @Willence are the majority of voters and not @TigerGrowls and @TigerRagRob.

This presidential primary is truly for the soul of the Republican party. Do they reject idiocy, conspiracy theories,and hatred, and move towards issues,truth and actual governance? We will see.

Keep unwittingly voting for the establishment and nothing will ever change. I think the establishment has around 90 of the senate seats under its control and close to 400 of the seats in the house and the WH. Sooner or later people need to wake up and smell the coffee and stop just feeding at the hog trough like you have been. For all the shit you claim about Trump I bet you cant name one thing he did worst than any of the establishment types like Biden, Clinton, Bush, Cheyney have done....

 

[TigerRagRob]

Ok so now do republicans calling dems demons and child molesters.

Dems are defending pedos.

 

[TigerGrowls]

I'm not interested in anymore conversations with you. No disrespect intended, I'm just not going to engage in whatever Socratic thing it is you're trying to do on this board.

He doesn't have an answer. None of them because there isn't one. LOL!!

 

[firegiver]

Dems are defending pedos.

I'm sorry what?

 

[CUT93]

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."


On a completely separate note. Steve Bannon stole all that build the wall money and was pardoned. He literally stole trump supporters money. . And they love him.

You could switch “white” and “colored” and it is still true. I would suggest the dem party has done this to the “colored” population. They are far and away the most monolithic voting block in the country.

 

[iceheart08]

Then why is the dem party in AZ taking actions that lead to distrust in the voting process? Dem run Maricopa County had 30% of voting machines not working and then went to court to fight repub requests to have voting hours extended. There is not one F**King logical reason to do that especially from the party trying everything possible to facilitate more voting.

Run the fricking elections transparently with integrity and all objections will disappear.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[yoshi121374]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Unfortunately that's never stopped him before.

 

[dpic73]

Then why is the dem party in AZ taking actions that lead to distrust in the voting process? Dem run Maricopa County had 30% of voting machines not working and then went to court to fight repub requests to have voting hours extended. There is not one F**King logical reason to do that especially from the party trying everything possible to facilitate more voting.

Run the fricking elections transparently with integrity and all objections will disappear.

Another outrageous lie. Bill Gates(Republican) is the chairman of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors and Stephen Richer (Republican) is the County Recorder. But sure man, it was the Democrats that dashed your hopes for a lying, authoritarian nut job.

 

[TigerGrowls]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm stating facts. Prove me wrong if you can.