Ukraine War

[TigerGrowls]

Info from a non russian source for you triggered patriots. I want this thing over with and if the US sends Ukraine long range missiles to shoot into Russia then that is a big escalation imo.

George Beebe says Ukraine counteroffensive is faltering

Beebe said it was a very real possibility that the US would be sending missiles to Ukraine to help them in their war effort.

justthenews.com

Former Director of CIA's Russia analysis says Ukraine counteroffensive is underperforming​

Beebe said it was a very real possibility that the US would be sending missiles to Ukraine to help them in their war effort.

By Charlotte Hazard
Updated: June 29, 2023 - 7:34pm
"The Ukrainian counter offensive, which has been underway for more than three weeks, does not seem to be going well at all," Beebe told the "Just the News, No Noise" TV show.
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky said earlier this month that the Ukrainian military was ready to launch a counteroffensive to reclaim Russian-occupied territory.
He told The Wall Street Journal in an interview that he was confident they would succeed.
Beebe added that a major factor to take into consideration that the counteroffensive wasn't going so well was that the U.S. seems to be in a hurry to get more weapons to Ukraine.
"I think one of the indications of how poorly it's going is the United States is attempting to rush more weapons to Ukraine, including more capable weapons," he stated.
He added that missiles were not out of the question to send over, which would be a new development.
"One of the things that Biden has refused to do for many, many months is to provide ATACMS-longer range missile systems that the Ukrainians could use to strike deep behind Russian lines," he said. "The Biden administration was really concerned that that would be an escalatory step. And now, rumor has it, according to the Wall Street Journal, that Biden is now very close to approving those sorts of missiles."

 

[PawsFan_]

People with connections in intel know what’s going on over there.
Russia has a much better military than people understand.
They use military satellites to identify targets and relay precise coordinates to precision guided stand off weapons and eliminate targets within minutes of them showing up on the battlefield.
Their pilots lack the training of ours and don’t have multimission competence but Ukraine has just about no air power left other than drones and few aircraft and helicopters the west is giving them- these are shot down pretty quickly. Russia doesn’t really need air power however since they can use stand off munitions to destroy opposition. The Russians have always fought differently and will cede non strategic ground to the enemy and then attack them with artillery, rockets and missiles.
Bakmut was a killing field for them. They deliberately left a couple roads open and repeatedly wiped out Ukraine forces dumb enough to keep using those roads.
Find some retired military and some honest journalists and you’ll see a totally different picture of how this exercise is going.
Ukraine never stood a chance and this is just a proxy war to try to maintain western hegemony and weaken Russia.

Hmmmm

Interesting but not true.

- Russia does use a lot of precision guided weapons. Never have.
- Russian Air Force has suffered much more than the Ukraine Air Force
- Bakmut was a killing field, except for the Russians.
- From my reading, I assess Ukraine lacks the force for a serious offensive.
- From my reading, I assess Russia lacks the force for a serious offensive.
- We're back to the stalemate that been going on since 2014. I'm not sure the Ukraine can repulse Russia at this point.

NATO wins this fight only because our support has weakened Russia for a generation.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Let's hope this does not occur.

UPDATE: After Blowing Up the Russian Oil Pipeline and Bombing Poland and then Blaming Russia – Zelensky Is Now Warning that “Russia” Is Going to Blow Up Nuclear Plant Under Their Control

UPDATE: After Blowing Up the Russian Oil Pipeline and Bombing Poland and then Blaming Russia - Zelensky Is Now Warning that "Russia" Is Going to Blow Up Nuclear Plant Under Their Control | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

After the Russian Nord Stream Pipeline was blown up a year ago, the US, NATO, the far left media, and the Ukrainian government blamed Russia for the explosion.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[yoshi121374]

Let's hope this does not occur.

UPDATE: After Blowing Up the Russian Oil Pipeline and Bombing Poland and then Blaming Russia – Zelensky Is Now Warning that “Russia” Is Going to Blow Up Nuclear Plant Under Their Control

UPDATE: After Blowing Up the Russian Oil Pipeline and Bombing Poland and then Blaming Russia - Zelensky Is Now Warning that "Russia" Is Going to Blow Up Nuclear Plant Under Their Control | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

After the Russian Nord Stream Pipeline was blown up a year ago, the US, NATO, the far left media, and the Ukrainian government blamed Russia for the explosion.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

All joking aside, why do you keep posting from this awful site? They are literally always wrong. Is there a point where you say, maybe I should try a different source?

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[PawsFan_]

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No offense but who give a **** about what an Austrian Colonel thinks.

Ukraine isn't using NATO tactics. Partly because they don't have the Air Force to do it and and partly because they culturally aren't comfortable with decentralized command and control.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Not good imo.

 

[PawsFan_]

Not good imo.

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Why? Rockeye will F up the Russians who are entrenched.

Awesome weapon. It's the shotgun of bombs.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Why? Rockeye will F up the Russians who are entrenched.

Awesome weapon. It's the shotgun of bombs.

I am not in favor accelerating this conflict. US should be mediating peace first and foremost imo. Russia will find a way to strike back if they feel the US is trying to tip the scales imo.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Underlying story.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[DW4_2016]

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Just like Ukraine shouldn’t sustain Russians in their country?

 

[yoshi121374]

Just like Ukraine shouldn’t sustain Russians in their country?

He will never admit that Russia shouldn't have invaded Ukraine. He thinks it clears completely justified. He has fully bought the BS Russia Disinformation from Right Wing Twitter.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Just like Ukraine shouldn’t sustain Russians in their country?

On one hand the US should not abide China setting up a base in Cuba.

On the other hand Russia is not abiding the US creating bio labs on its border and trying to add Ukraine to Nato.

It's easy to see that you and @yoshi121374 were short bus riders.

 

[yoshi121374]

On one hand the US should not abide China setting up a base in Cuba.

On the other hand Russia is not abiding the US creating bio labs on its border and trying to add Ukraine to Nato.

It's easy to see that you and @yoshi121374 were short bus riders.

So you claim that the US is the reason that Russia invaded Ukraine? Do you not understand how anti-American you are? Why do you hate our country so much?

 

[TigerGrowls]

So you claim that the US is the reason that Russia invaded Ukraine? Do you not understand how anti-American you are? Why do you hate our country so much?

Stupid upholding his record of failure.

 

[PawsFan_]

I am not in favor accelerating this conflict. US should be mediating peace first and foremost imo. Russia will find a way to strike back if they feel the US is trying to tip the scales imo.

Accelerating a conflict that's been going on since 2014? Putin's grip on power is slipping through his fingers. Russia is messing with us right now in Syria a bit. Iran is, likely in strategic cooperation with Russia, messing with us in the AG. They don't have a lot of options to mess with us conventionally.

F Russia and their insecure, vodka swilling, sheep mindset masses.

 

[PawsFan_]

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The guy is a moron. Cluster munitions are not a violation of the laws of war. The only reason we have obtained from using them more is the "fear" that the low percentage of the bomblets that don't explode may cause civilian causalities.

I've dropped a bunch of these just off our coast for practice.

 

[TigerGrowls]

This would guarantee WW3 and strikes on American soil.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Accelerating a conflict that's been going on since 2014? Putin's grip on power is slipping through his fingers. Russia is messing with us right now in Syria a bit. Iran is, likely in strategic cooperation with Russia, messing with us in the AG. They don't have a lot of options to mess with us conventionally.

F Russia and their insecure, vodka swilling, sheep mindset masses.

You are an American Warrior and are ready and confident. I admire and appreciate that but still strongly disagree that there is a vital US national security interest at all in Ukraine. The military industrial complex and corrupt US politicians/deep state want to make money and advance GLOBALISTS INTERESTS ONLY.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Same question applies to infrastructure.

Additionally China is building its navy faster and supposedly ahead of us in hypersonic spending a lot less money. How much waste and siphoning to. black projects is occurring?

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[treetiger]

I defended the West German boarder for 3 years in the US Army against the old Soviet Union. What the Russian Federation and Putin is trying to do now is bring back this old Soviet Union. If you allow them to take Ukraine then the other Baltic states will follow, and Kazakhstan, etc. Even Poland would be in danger, especially since they are helping Ukraine.

We are involved now, whether you like it or not, or it was right or wrong. In my opinion as a military person, the US and the West made their first mistake in not bringing the big guns from the very start, like the long range artillery and missiles. Also know training the Ukrainian's to fly the Western jets and then providing them. This conflict (war) would likely already be over if they had. The reason the Ukrainian counter-offensive is not getting the desired results is because Ukraine had to wait for the West to finally provide some the needed weapons. That allowed the Russian's to dig miles and miles of trenches, lay thousands and thousands of mines. The mine fields have to be resolved before the Ukrainian army can even begin to advance. Air power (US fighter jets) would have allowed the Ukrainian airfare to attack those trenches. Cluster munitions (finally!!!) will devastate Russian trench positions and can even be used to clear mine fields. White Phosphorus (WP), also called "Willie Pete" when I was in the army, and we had those rounds in our M-60A1 tanks, would also devastate a Russian trench, as WP will burn you up in a brutal way. The Russian's have already been using 'cluster munitions' and 'WP', mostly on civilians. The Ukrainian's usage of them would be strictly on Russian trenches and defensive positions, usually far from civilian areas. Cluster munitions and WP will open up large holes in the Russian defensive lines. Since I also hate communists, I would also use some 'Napoleon' on the entrenched Russians, that would getting them running in a hurry.

A defeated Russian Federation, one that breaks up into smaller states, is the best thing for the US. Then we have mainly China to worry about, with Iran and North Korea on the plate as side orders. But a weakened Russia is good for all...

 

[TigerGrowls]

I defended the West German boarder for 3 years in the US Army against the old Soviet Union. What the Russian Federation and Putin is trying to do now is bring back this old Soviet Union. If you allow them to take Ukraine then the other Baltic states will follow, and Kazakhstan, etc. Even Poland would be in danger, especially since they are helping Ukraine.

We are involved now, whether you like it or not, or it was right or wrong. In my opinion as a military person, the US and the West made their first mistake in not bringing the big guns from the very start, like the long range artillery and missiles. Also know training the Ukrainian's to fly the Western jets and then providing them. This conflict (war) would likely already be over if they had. The reason the Ukrainian counter-offensive is not getting the desired results is because Ukraine had to wait for the West to finally provide some the needed weapons. That allowed the Russian's to dig miles and miles of trenches, lay thousands and thousands of mines. The mine fields have to be resolved before the Ukrainian army can even begin to advance. Air power (US fighter jets) would have allowed the Ukrainian airfare to attack those trenches. Cluster munitions (finally!!!) will devastate Russian trench positions and can even be used to clear mine fields. White Phosphorus (WP), also called "Willie Pete" when I was in the army, and we had those rounds in our M-60A1 tanks, would also devastate a Russian trench, as WP will burn you up in a brutal way. The Russian's have already been using 'cluster munitions' and 'WP', mostly on civilians. The Ukrainian's usage of them would be strictly on Russian trenches and defensive positions, usually far from civilian areas. Cluster munitions and WP will open up large holes in the Russian defensive lines. Since I also hate communists, I would also use some 'Napoleon' on the entrenched Russians, that would getting them running in a hurry.

A defeated Russian Federation, one that breaks up into smaller states, is the best thing for the US. Then we have mainly China to worry about, with Iran and North Korea on the plate as side orders. But a weakened Russia is good for all...

Nice analysis but you are talking ww3 and Russia will attack the mainland US with missiles and no telling what else. Do we want that type of price for anything in Ukraine? I do strongly disagree withe idea that Russia wants to advance any further than what they currently have anytime soon.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[TigerGrowls]

It is the US engaging in the proxy war. If we throw enough firepower over there to seriously damage Russia or strike within their territory with US made weapons then they will declare the US to be an enemy combatant imo.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[dpic73]

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"A top House Republican said Sunday he agreed with the Biden administration’s contentious decision to supply cluster munitions to Ukraine as part of a new military aid package, while a prominent progressive Democrat said the US risks “losing our moral leadership” over the move.

McCaul said the weapons “would be a game-changer” in the war in Ukraine, noting that “Russia is dropping with impunity cluster bombs” on Ukrainian territory.

“All the Ukrainians and (President Volodymyr) Zelensky are asking for is to give them the same weapons the Russians have to use in their own country against Russians who are in their own country,” he said. “They do not want these to be used in Russia.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/09/politics/cluster-bombs-ukraine-reaction-cnntv/index.html#:~:text=A%20top%20House%20Republican%20said,moral%20leadership%E2%80%9D%20over%20the%20move.

 

[treetiger]

Nice analysis but you are talking ww3 and Russia will attack the mainland US with missiles and no telling what else. Do we want that type of price for anything in Ukraine? I do strongly disagree withe idea that Russia wants to advance any further than what they currently have anytime soon.

Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) was the thing that both parties (nations) respected during the 9 years that I was in the army. I was on the NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) warfare team. We trained for that constantly. But the Russians knew that we could easily wipe them off the face of the earth as well. Now I don't want to be on the edge of such things, but I was somewhat at the tip of the spear in West Germany. The Russians are mostly bloviating and spouting rhetoric. They tried to intimidate the US and others by the mere threatening. If we back down now, then Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, etc. cease to exist. And Poland no doubt would be next. I know you don't want to see another Soviet Union (Empire)? We spent God knows how much money during the Cold War from 1947-1991 to secure the sovereignty of Western Europe and to liberate and free Eastern Europe from the communists. You want to go back to that again???

I hate it that this is happening during a weak Joe Biden Administration, and a weak military for this nation as well. So we need a weakened Russia also. Russia and China have little fear of the US military right now with the WOKE agenda undermining it and weakening it. It is obvious we care more Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion and CRT (Critical Race Theory) right now in the military than combat effectiveness. You've seen the new commercials where they are more concerned to show that in the army you can have two moms, or you can be a flaming LBGT-Q solider with a transition surgery at the end of the rainbow. It is sickening to watch!!! By Joe Biden is destroying the fabric of the nation and its energy independence and its economy, it still may not be as bad as his destruction of the military. Since the military recruitment is WAY down, and experienced soldiers are leaving in droves, Biden's military is now lowering the standards for getting in. No high school diploma, no worries about criminal records, and of course they are preferring WOKE LBGT-Q recruits enmasse.

We've certainly have a lot to overcome from the communists running this nation now, but we certainly need a weakened communist Russia as well, until Donald Trump can get back in office in 2024, throw out and lockup the communists, seize back control of the military infrastructure, and Make America Great Again. But it might take years to overhaul the military from the destruction that the Joe Biden Administration reaped on it. But again, with a weakened or fractured Russia, we would then mainly need to be concerned about China, and that certainly is not something that I look forward to either.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Hopefully this is legit.

Former U.S. officials have held secret Ukraine talks with prominent Russians​

Former U.S. officials have held secret Ukraine talks with Russians

The aim of the discussions is to lay the groundwork for potential negotiations to end the war, people briefed on the talks told NBC News.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[TigerGrowls]

In normal times this would be big and astonishing news but with grandpa joe nothing surprises. And once again how in the hell is the United States of America that far outspends any other nation in the world militarily low on anything compared to the competition? How many fricking billions are being shit out the door due to corruption and off the book projects? This alone is disturbing to me. China and Russia do not appear to be wasting their money.

 

[treetiger]

Hopefully this is legit.

Former U.S. officials have held secret Ukraine talks with prominent Russians​

Former U.S. officials have held secret Ukraine talks with Russians

The aim of the discussions is to lay the groundwork for potential negotiations to end the war, people briefed on the talks told NBC News.

www.nbcnews.com

Absolutely NO agreement should be made unless Russia turns over the Crimea, the Donbass, and all other invaded regions of the Ukraine. Then they should have to rebuild the areas that they destroyed. There are quite a few cities that have ben turned into rubble and thousands of civilians massacred. Like Bakhmut, which once had a population of over 71,000 people has been completely destroyed. There are numerous cities like that. Then the catastrophic destruct of the damn by Russia. Putin should face war crimes. The Russians should be held libel to fix all of this. Knowing the US right now and the Biden Administration, they are probably running around with their heads way up their asses because they are scared that Putin will blow up the nuclear reactor that he planted explosives on. We cannot allow this criminal thug to dictate to us because of any threats he's made. Because then he will know that he can always threaten and we will be weak.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Absolutely NO agreement should be made unless Russia turns over the Crimea, the Donbass, and all other invaded regions of the Ukraine. Then they should have to rebuild the areas that they destroyed. There are quite a few cities that have ben turned into rubble and thousands of civilians massacred. Like Bakhmut, which once had a population of over 71,000 people has been completely destroyed. There are numerous cities like that. Then the catastrophic destruct of the damn by Russia. Putin should face war crimes. The Russians should be held libel to fix all of this. Knowing the US right now and the Biden Administration, they are probably running around with their heads way up their asses because they are scared that Putin will blow up the nuclear reactor that he planted explosives on. We cannot allow this criminal thug to dictate to us because of any threats he's made. Because then he will know that he can always threaten and we will be weak.

Love your American pride and fighting spirit brother but strongly disagree with your opinion here. What you proposed will never happen. Russia has ways to hurt us in the continental US if it comes to it and would if pushed to that limit. Ukraine will run out of bodies to run this proxy war at some point. That area is not in the US sphere of the world and the cold war mentality does not need to factor in US decision making. Nation states have been fighting each other for thousands of years in that part of the world and no matter who wins it does not affect US national security interest other than if we foolishly provoke Russia into a world war with us that we honestly are not prepared to fight.

This is not the old world. The new tech will dictate a totally new war unlike what was fought in WW2. Which major power can take out the others satellites first? How long will it take to sink most of the ships using hypersonic missiles from long range and so on and so forth? With our open borders how many nations have up to thousands of special force operatives running around in the US just waiting for orders since China Joe opened the borders. I am seeing a feeling from some that we can just punk Russia and/or China over with ease and that will not happen imo. I do not see an interest from US citizens to send their sons to Ukraine to die fighting a battle that is not ours that our govt very arguably have started clandestinely.

I respect your knowledge and opinion but continue to strongly disagree with what you want to occur. Ukraine is not the 51st state and we are not the policeman for the world at 31T dollars in debt and fast escalating. We will be in the poor house unable to wage war in short order at the current pace of what is occurring and I am just wondering if they are thinking to run a world war and conveniently cancel out all the debt as a result of it. This is at the same time that China just defaulted on about a trillion of debt to the US and no one in the current debacle of leadership even appears to give a crap.

 

[PawsFan_]

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Same question applies to infrastructure.

Additionally China is building its navy faster and supposedly ahead of us in hypersonic spending a lot less money. How much waste and siphoning to. black projects is occurring?

Yeah. Much of our defense budget is for personnel (25%).

It's the defense industry hyping up China/Russia "capabilities". It's not the DoD. The defense industry wants to scare Congress to buy more "stuff."

"Black projects" are often the cheapest because they are able to circumstance government procurement which drive up costs. They often rely on existing commercial off the shelf technologies which means development isn't needed.

 

[PawsFan_]

It is the US engaging in the proxy war. If we throw enough firepower over there to seriously damage Russia or strike within their territory with US made weapons then they will declare the US to be an enemy combatant imo.

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Why are you so scared of Russia? Russia can't beat Ukraine in a fight. We'd clean Russia's clock in a fight.

Cluster bombs aren't pushing us closer to WW3. They are a conventional weapon Russia has used in Ukraine.

I agree we have no strategic interesting in Ukraine at a macro level. Our interest is not letting Putin win this fight. Just like Hitler, you can't let a bully get away with crap like this.

I also agree that we have sent WAY too much money and support to Ukraine. A lot of that money is lining crooks pockets.

Ukraine isn't going to expel Russia from all its territory. Russia will have to voluntarily withdraw. I don't see that happening.

Russia isn't taking all of Ukraine unless...Ukraine bleeds itself to death (which could happen).

 

[Dungeon09]

Why are you so scared of Russia? Russia can't beat Ukraine in a fight. We'd clean Russia's clock in a fight.

Cluster bombs aren't pushing us closer to WW3. They are a conventional weapon Russia has used in Ukraine.

I agree we have no strategic interesting in Ukraine at a macro level. Our interest is not letting Putin win this fight. Just like Hitler, you can't let a bully get away with crap like this.

I also agree that we have sent WAY too much money and support to Ukraine. A lot of that money is lining crooks pockets.

Ukraine isn't going to expel Russia from all its territory. Russia will have to voluntarily withdraw. I don't see that happening.

Russia isn't taking all of Ukraine unless...Ukraine bleeds itself to death (which could happen).

Disagree that Ukraine can’t force Russia to withdraw. The longer this goes, the worse it gets for Putin. Right now Ukraine, with its western backing and defensive stance, has more staying power in this conflict than Russia. It’s also absolutely the case that the west’s, admitted clumsy, show of unity in support or Ukraine has altered China’s calculus on how they approach their Taiwan problem. After the multi-administration mishandling of the two previous conflicts, there was brewing doubt regarding the potency of the US military. The fact that a relatively small country armed and trained by NATO is making things so painful for what was the supposed “second military in thr world” prior to this conflict is not lost on the CCP and this is why you’ve seen Beijing temper their initially vocal support for the Muscovite regime as the 3 day operation ground into quagmire.

 

[PawsFan_]

Nice analysis but you are talking ww3 and Russia will attack the mainland US with missiles and no telling what else. Do we want that type of price for anything in Ukraine? I do strongly disagree withe idea that Russia wants to advance any further than what they currently have anytime soon.

Russia isn't attacking the US. We'd wipe them from the face of the Earth.

Reforming the old Soviet Union is EXACTLY what Putin wants.