Way OT...... just Curious are you a Christian?
- Thread starter Essolover4
- Start date
It's responses in this thread that have helped me determine I'm pretty much done posting in the WEZ. It might be worth posting on rare occasions, but there's too much posting of garbage by people that would never say the same things to your face. I just don't operate in that fashion.
The immaturity, nastiness and inability to comprehend is at an all time high on here. It's not worth the effort of posting much anymore. This board is drastically different than it was years ago. Sad but true. The content in this thread is quite fitting. Typical.
The immaturity, nastiness and inability to comprehend is at an all time high on here. It's not worth the effort of posting much anymore. This board is drastically different than it was years ago. Sad but true. The content in this thread is quite fitting. Typical.
I try hard to be. However, as a sinner, I ask the Lord for the strength to be a good Christian with Christ as my center every day.
Evil? Who's to say what is good and what is evil? You're using the standards of the thing you say doesn't even exist
Interesting. My initial response is that if that were the case. The incarnation, death and resurrection of Christ would not be necessary. Man could find his own way and Jesus died for nothing. it also encroaches on the doctrine of the trinity, since Christ as the 2nd person of the trinity had a set purpose.
I wish I could help you, but unfortunately you have violated one of my rules on this thread.
And you would have been one of the last I expected this from.
I'm not mad, you disappointed in you. I am going to have to rethink things
Just curious if you believe there is some higher power, God, creator, or did the universe just happen to exist by chance. A "my thoughts" if you will.
Hahaha oh okay, you're right man, living in the worst place imaginable, forever, is no biggie. Oh that's right hell was created as a punishment for breaking Gods rules. Subjecting people to that same place, knowing they would end up there beforehand, and creating those people is as evil as it gets. If my compass of good and bad is off blame God then, i'm the way I am because of him right? Besides he's done a poor job of communicating his message with Man throughout the years anyways so maybe you're right, eternal damnation=good?
Munson is correct. I regret taking the bait and getting involved with this thread. I have no idea why I thought there would be rationalized debate and tolerance.
No, I don't. I don't have an answer as to why the universe came into existence, and probably I never will. But I'd rather just say I don't know than credit a celestial being for which there is no evidence. If there is or was a god, I tend to think it would have very little interest in our day to day lives, but exists as a rule maker for the physical properties of the universe. But nothing can ever prove or disprove god.
But why would I want to believe such a thing? Christianity is a philosophy rooted in self loathing. Just look through this thread, people calling themselves pathetic and sinners and that they deserve death. They are in an abusive relationship with god. I can't wrap my mind around that being something I would want to subscribe to.
Well, no, it still would be necessary and, like I said, the Catholic Cardinal's and Pope feel like they have the scripture to back them up. The Catholics say that Jesus is absolutely necessary and is giving these folks (Hindus, Islamists, etc) a way in to heaven even though they do not realize it. It is still Jesus/God's grace that gets them in even though they think they are praying to a different God. Hence the term "anonymous christianity" which both the Great theologians Hans Kung and Karl Rahner both ascribe to and which led to the Vatican 2 pronouncements regarding Chritianity's views on other religions (as just described).
You have to admit, this is a pretty savvy line of thought and, really, it was absolutely necessary for them to come to this line of thought because so many people were starting to come into contact with other religions, like never before, in the 1960s. Furthermore, this opens the way for the Aboriginal peoples, American Indians, Southern Pacificans, etc. who had never had a way of hearing of Jesus for thousands of years to find a way into heaven. And, really, if the God of Jesus is a just God, would he not have to offer all peoples a way in anyway (as evidenced by the Titus scripture that he does offer all folks a way anyway)? Otherwise, the God of Christianity is an unjust God and that opens a pandora's box that the Catholics, or virtually anyone, does not want to entertain.
Why is it BS? Does it make you uncomfortable? If so, why? Sure made me uncomfortable for about 41 years!
"...'I do believe; help my unbelief.'" Mark 9:24
Lots of people in this boat. I'm with you.
People suck, in general we all have so many problems. However, there is more historical evidence that Jesus was real, was who he claimed to be, performed the miracles, etc... than there is evidence of any other significant person in history. I don't think many folks ITT who are on the out side have actually invested enough time on biblical study to actually know why the feel the way they feel. Too many folks just manifest their reason for the existence of this world without giving scripture a moment of research.
Over 5500 independent (non religious) historical documents of eye witnesses accounts compared to someone like Socrates, which has less than 100. Was he real?
Oh and the funny thing is eight years ago I would have been high fiving you making fun of present day me.
Appreciate the thoughts
I remember Ravi talking about a Hindu 'priest' coming to Christ through a dream he had, and voila, he was changed. We are silly to try to put God in a box.
Yet most religions are spun from people picking and choosing what they like, and what they don't like, and making their version of "God" what they're comfortable with.
Unfortunately for those folks, He does a pretty good job of explaining Who He is in His Word.
This was an interesting thread.
I believe more mistakes are made by people who 'think' they have it all figured out.
Plus, I feel we'd all be better off focusing on the the common ground, for the most part.
I have some very definite feelings/beliefs, but do no know 'everything', as none do. It's hard to have a fruitful discussion without open and respectful discussion. And, religion is a pretty volatile subject
I am a Berean though. We all need to be............
We must consult the scriptures and look at the preponderance of the message of the entire Bible......not picking and choosing.
No doubt that it is hard to discuss this being a volatile subject. However, when folks make an earnest effort it can be very helpful to all parties involved - I think at least. In regards to the other religions getting into (or not) heaven or the individual who has never heard the gospel getting in especially (american indian, aboriginal person etc). it just makes me feel that God is incredibly unfair if they are never even given an opportunity. When denominations say these things I have watched on numerous occasions that people just shut out Christianity altogether bc they believe that if a God is so unfair, then he may not be righteous to begin with. In instances such as these I have encouraged folks to look to the beliefs of the Catholics and some of the mainline protestant denominations as ones who believe Christianity does offer exceptions. Likewise, to be fair, I have heard some evangelicals say that God likely offers dispensation to these sorts of folks - Billy Graham being one of them!! It is just so unfortunate that many are turned off by Christianity for this one particular reason and I was one of those people at one time. Now I am starting to warm back up to Christianity in my older age and I hope I will continue to be open minded and give it a better chance now that I understand that not all Christians think people from other religions are automatically damned to hell. no exceptions. Hopefully others will do the same. @PainClinic
There is some corroborating evidence that Jesus existed for sure. But I have seen zero historical evidence that he actually performed miracles. Likewise I know of no contemporary historian in his time suggesting that he performed miracles either.
It's actually well documented in Roman history. Regardless these discussions tend to just rile people up vs creating a forum for open minded discussion. I'm going to the beach now for some sun and a beer. Hope you enjoy the holiday!
The only reference (relatively close to his lifetime) I am aware of is the reference by the Roman writer Iraneous. I would love to hear about other references, however, if you have any. Enjoy your beach trip!
My friend, I hesitate to get into absolutes on a forum like this. (I hope I was able to stay that course the other night) But, I will start out with one indisputable and critical fact:
God is NOT unfair. He is the only just entity in the universe.
Still, I feel that too often people try to figure it all out........I think that's dumb. Like when will the world in, studying Revelation and Daniel to all ends.
IT DOESN'T matter! It will be when and how God decides. We have no vote.
He KNOWS. HE could have told us. But, such was not His pleasure.
(nor do I think any of us could handle it IF we knew )
Basically Jesus, Paul, et. al. say : Be ready
Yet people dig and dig.........maybe so they can be right??
Or 'be somebody'?
Getting 'self' out of the way, is the very first step to moving closer to God.
Pride is the killer: even Lucifer fell to it, not to mention the "me, me" attributed to Adam and Eve.
Having said all that.
He is God.
We are human.
He is the Creator.
We are the created.
He doesn't.........nor shouldn't........explain it all to us. He owes us nothing, we owe Him everything.
The things He does make clear is that there is only one way to Heaven. It is through Jesus. Now.....what exactly does that mean
Were there 'one special prayer' or 'one special act' <looking a you, catholics........He would have told us. (The thief on the cross had no time for getting down for a bath. Plus this is the only reference to Jesus telling ONE MAN that he WOULD be with Him later that day in Paradise.)
I have gone much further than I wanted to: suffice to say>>> We don't know exactly what that "only way" means in all the methods and depth of it's being. It would be stupid for us to try to limit God as to anything, any one thing, any one path of this "one way"..... especially this salvation stuff; fair and unfair/why and why not (I could give endless examples - but just consider reading the middle chapter of War and Peace and then telling be about the end and the beginning)
I fear I am rambling.
I love you, man. And all of my brothers and sisters ....and those that are not called by that name, yet.
I will make no more response here. Maybe gone too far already.
However, I would welcome PMs from anyone. No name, no pressure.
But, as you can see, I love talking about God.
Iron sharpens Iron.
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man, I don't remember what I said no to...........been a long and convoluted thread.
But everyone one of us will end up being righteously judged.
For every thought, action, belief and intention, etc. Everything.
Make no mistake.
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