Who is this Noble guy?

[Tigerbomb]

Originally posted by acwill07:
LOL at Perry Noble. Newspring is more of a cult than a church and I really can't understand why anyone would go there. On top of him distorting the Bible's teachings to benefit his own financial gain, he is simply a prick.....refuses to preside over marriages and funerals of church members (or owners if you are wacky). Tells me all I need to know.

Check out the link....calls Christians who don't tithe a full 10% idiots.

PN is way off base with his tithing teaching. I love how he glosses over the "Old Testament Law" argument and goes straight into "it was a principle that was established by Cain and Able". Read your bible again Perry.

The truth is we are told give cheerfully and help those in need. We are told to look into our hearts and decide how much to give. This nonsense that it is 10% because it was established in the Old Testament is just false.

Its even more sickening that PN insinuates that you will be punished in some way if you don't give 10% of your money. The bible is crystal clear that "giving" is not just money.

So much fail in that rant and how arrogant for him to say "you don't want to play the bible game with me."

 

[haymond1977]

Originally posted by MaduroTiger:

Originally posted by acwill07:
LOL at Perry Noble. Newspring is more of a cult than a church and I really can't understand why anyone would go there. On top of him distorting the Bible's teachings to benefit his own financial gain, he is simply a prick.....refuses to preside over marriages and funerals of church members (or owners if you are wacky). Tells me all I need to know.

Check out the link....calls Christians who don't tithe a full 10% idiots.

That's the first time I've watched this after hearing about him saying that and that's absolutely pathetic. He has people brainwashed. Not that I care but since when did pastors start wearing acdc looking shirts while giving a sermon?

Here is the problem. You say he is brainwashing his Church but offer nothing to support it. Then you focus on the fact he is not wearing a religious outfit.

NS is not for everyone mean it's probably not for you. I could care less that he is not wearing a black robe and using words that have not been spoken in 100 years. I don't blame you for wanting that in your Church... why do you care about mine? Because it is not yours? I have gone to NS for about 8 years now. It's over the top, wild and pushes the envelop but, believe it or not, does preach the gospel. Attendance has grown more in ten years then any other Church in America. God speaks of witnessing and bringing people to the Church. How is your Church attendance? Most on here sound bitter that people have left their Church for NS. Think there might be a reason for that? They complain about people leaving for NS and condemning NS in the same breathe. Condemning another Church! That you have no evidence that God is not completely honoring! To me people have some sand to do that and sound righteous about the reverence of their Church.

And as far as the N word comment, I won't cop out and say it sounds muddled or like he cut his words short. Again, I don't hang on every word your pastor preaches and it leaves me very defensive when out of 100's of hours of sermons this year, you find one audible that sounds like he said something bad. Should I leave NS because he may have uttered a curse word? Or because you say I should? Is this really the smoking gun you have been looking for? Sounds to me like people are saying, he said a bad word and he is like cult leader. What do they have to do with each other? I'll pray that God heals PN's foul mouth. Is that not good enough?

 

[Tigerbomb]

Originally posted by haymond1977:

Originally posted by MaduroTiger:

Originally posted by acwill07:
LOL at Perry Noble. Newspring is more of a cult than a church and I really can't understand why anyone would go there. On top of him distorting the Bible's teachings to benefit his own financial gain, he is simply a prick.....refuses to preside over marriages and funerals of church members (or owners if you are wacky). Tells me all I need to know.

Check out the link....calls Christians who don't tithe a full 10% idiots.

That's the first time I've watched this after hearing about him saying that and that's absolutely pathetic. He has people brainwashed. Not that I care but since when did pastors start wearing acdc looking shirts while giving a sermon?

Here is the problem. You say he is brainwashing his Church but offer nothing to support it. Then you focus on the fact he is not wearing a religious outfit.

NS is not for everyone mean it's probably not for you. I could care less that he is not wearing a black robe and using words that have not been spoken in 100 years. I don't blame you for wanting that in your Church... why do you care about mine? Because it is not yours? I have gone to NS for about 8 years now. It's over the top, wild and pushes the envelop but, believe it or not, does preach the gospel. Attendance has grown more in ten years then any other Church in America. God speaks of witnessing and bringing people to the Church. How is your Church attendance? Most on here sound bitter that people have left their Church for NS. Think there might be a reason for that? They complain about people leaving for NS and condemning NS in the same breathe. Condemning another Church! That you have no evidence that God is not completely honoring! To me people have some sand to do that and sound righteous about the reverence of their Church.

And as far as the N word comment, I won't cop out and say it sounds muddled or like he cut his words short. Again, I don't hang on every word your pastor preaches and it leaves me very defensive when out of 100's of hours of sermons this year, you find one audible that sounds like he said something bad. Should I leave NS because he may have uttered a curse word? Or because you say I should? Is this really the smoking gun you have been looking for? Sounds to me like people are saying, he said a bad word and he is like cult leader. What do they have to do with each other? I'll pray that God heals PN's foul mouth. Is that not good enough?

Its not that he said an offensive word my good man. Its the fact that he will not own it. When asked for some clarification we get a response that his words ran together and PN didn't say anything wrong. You may not believe this but I could not care less if he said "N*** please" as we are all human. Just say "I was wrong, please forgive me" and move on. Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining.

 

[gardentiger]

Originally posted by nseverett:

Originally posted by scartiger:
I usually don't like to comment on these subjects but enough is enough. False prophet. Has his own 10 commandments. I don't care if they give a backpack and shoes to everyone in America his teaching of the BIBLE is wrong.

Yeah, that's not accurate. Don't let facts get in the way--most people on here don't.

No, he's right. Narcissistic preaching. He essentially just struck down the 10 commandments. He's more powerful than Moses now. http://theaquilareport.com/noble-rescinds-the-ten-commandments-for-2015/

 

[gardentiger]

Re: Scartiger

Originally posted by poates6:
I'm not sure what your point about a pastor talking to his staff about his sermon is all about. You want to follow a dude that never seeks input, wisdom, accountability, teaching from those he loves and trusts on his staff????
Don't drink the kool aid bro! It will kill you.

Perry addressed this today in his talk. Anyone that isn't bent on crucifying him already understood what he was preaching but he made it clear in case you didn't grasp it. He made it clear that these commands are promises that would be and are filled in Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of the old testament scriptures.

His point about the word "command" that is used in english translations is that it is a very weak translation. His point was that sometimes things get lost in translation and that command was used but it could also be translated saying of God (which could mean command) or promises of God.

Based on your absolute demeaning and hatred for the man (which i think the bible speaks of too) i'm assuming you are a hebrew scholar and have spent lots of time speaking with people of hebrew culture. Otherwise how do you know so much about this. I for one am not a scholar. I don't know any hebrew for that matter. I have asked a couple friends that are not associated with NS at all (either members or on your hate them to hell team) that did actually study hebrew in a seminary and they have communicated that what perry said is correct. The word command is a weak translation because we do not have a singular word in english to translate this hebrew saying.

The man has faults, he is a fairly humble guy actually (yes i have met him and did know him back when NS was under 500 people) and he and NS are far from perfect. They do not put up fronts though and what you see is what you get.

I know he challenges your way of thinking and for that your hatred comes forth. Love man, be about love. Love is the greatest!

Poat,
It doesn't concern you that in 2000+ years of Christianity Noble is always coming up with something "new"? The ten commandments are not promises they are law. A quick study on law and gospel or indicatives vs. imperitives might help. If you are looking for promises or something of the like look to the Sermon on the Mount. Wow! you met Perry? How'd you get through the body guards?

 

[lswon812]

Originally posted by haymond1977:

Originally posted by MaduroTiger:

Originally posted by acwill07:
LOL at Perry Noble. Newspring is more of a cult than a church and I really can't understand why anyone would go there. On top of him distorting the Bible's teachings to benefit his own financial gain, he is simply a prick.....refuses to preside over marriages and funerals of church members (or owners if you are wacky). Tells me all I need to know.

Check out the link....calls Christians who don't tithe a full 10% idiots.

That's the first time I've watched this after hearing about him saying that and that's absolutely pathetic. He has people brainwashed. Not that I care but since when did pastors start wearing acdc looking shirts while giving a sermon?

Here is the problem. You say he is brainwashing his Church but offer nothing to support it. Then you focus on the fact he is not wearing a religious outfit.

NS is not for everyone mean it's probably not for you. I could care less that he is not wearing a black robe and using words that have not been spoken in 100 years. I don't blame you for wanting that in your Church... why do you care about mine? Because it is not yours? I have gone to NS for about 8 years now. It's over the top, wild and pushes the envelop but, believe it or not, does preach the gospel. Attendance has grown more in ten years then any other Church in America. God speaks of witnessing and bringing people to the Church. How is your Church attendance? Most on here sound bitter that people have left their Church for NS. Think there might be a reason for that? They complain about people leaving for NS and condemning NS in the same breathe. Condemning another Church! That you have no evidence that God is not completely honoring! To me people have some sand to do that and sound righteous about the reverence of their Church.

And as far as the N word comment, I won't cop out and say it sounds muddled or like he cut his words short. Again, I don't hang on every word your pastor preaches and it leaves me very defensive when out of 100's of hours of sermons this year, you find one audible that sounds like he said something bad. Should I leave NS because he may have uttered a curse word? Or because you say I should? Is this really the smoking gun you have been looking for? Sounds to me like people are saying, he said a bad word and he is like cult leader. What do they have to do with each other? I'll pray that God heals PN's foul mouth. Is that not good enough?

First off, no, GOD does not speak of bringing people to the church. Jesus instructed us to go and make disciples. The early church was instructed to GO and witness, not bring a ton of people to one place. Go and study how Jesus made disciples then look at your church (any church) and compare and contrast. This led me and the family to pick another church. Perry is a very good speaker, and I do believe he wants to reach people and spread the gospel...however, I think it's watered down and some very vital parts of Jesus' instructions to his disciples are not emphasized at NS.

"Serving" has been turned in to events instead of an everyday thing of how you should impact where you live, work, and play. When we attended, serving was how are you volunteering at the church? Perry and staff were going to scrub the roster of people that weren't volunteering. Why not emphasize "how are you serving those around you?" We tried to volunteer at the Anderson campus and my wife and I were both told in so many words "we don't really have a place for you to help". Instead of worrying about if people are helping at the church, give them ideas or opportunities to serve others.

"Disciple making" is left into the hands of the "owners" instead of being modeled by the church leaders. How are you expected to make a disciple if you're a new believer and aren't given any mentoring. This is a big deal to me as NS reaches a lot of "new Christians" but offers minimal guidance on this part.

Jesus rebuked his disciples for turning little children away during his teachings, yet at NS you can't bring anyone younger than a 5th grader into the service and if you leave you have to spend the remainder of the service watching on TV. Perry says it's for the interruptions, but again, this seems more driven my man, for a performance, than out of teaching of the word.

I look at Acts 2, especially the last few verses, as a model for the modern church. What does it say when Peter could spend time with others..praying, eating, whatever but today a preacher says he won't marry you, bury you, and has an escort of security to get him through his own church?

I'm not saying NS is wrong...or that if you go there you're not a "true Christian", these are just a few of the issues that led us to leave.

 

[TAINT_PAINT]

Originally posted by haymond1977:

Originally posted by MaduroTiger:

Originally posted by acwill07:
LOL at Perry Noble. Newspring is more of a cult than a church and I really can't understand why anyone would go there. On top of him distorting the Bible's teachings to benefit his own financial gain, he is simply a prick.....refuses to preside over marriages and funerals of church members (or owners if you are wacky). Tells me all I need to know.

Check out the link....calls Christians who don't tithe a full 10% idiots.

That's the first time I've watched this after hearing about him saying that and that's absolutely pathetic. He has people brainwashed. Not that I care but since when did pastors start wearing acdc looking shirts while giving a sermon?

Here is the problem. You say he is brainwashing his Church but offer nothing to support it. Then you focus on the fact he is not wearing a religious outfit.

NS is not for everyone mean it's probably not for you. I could care less that he is not wearing a black robe and using words that have not been spoken in 100 years. I don't blame you for wanting that in your Church... why do you care about mine? Because it is not yours? I have gone to NS for about 8 years now. It's over the top, wild and pushes the envelop but, believe it or not, does preach the gospel. Attendance has grown more in ten years then any other Church in America. God speaks of witnessing and bringing people to the Church. How is your Church attendance? Most on here sound bitter that people have left their Church for NS. Think there might be a reason for that? They complain about people leaving for NS and condemning NS in the same breathe. Condemning another Church! That you have no evidence that God is not completely honoring! To me people have some sand to do that and sound righteous about the reverence of their Church.

And as far as the N word comment, I won't cop out and say it sounds muddled or like he cut his words short. Again, I don't hang on every word your pastor preaches and it leaves me very defensive when out of 100's of hours of sermons this year, you find one audible that sounds like he said something bad. Should I leave NS because he may have uttered a curse word? Or because you say I should? Is this really the smoking gun you have been looking for? Sounds to me like people are saying, he said a bad word and he is like cult leader. What do they have to do with each other? I'll pray that God heals PN's foul mouth. Is that not good enough?

 

[SDTiger9]

The growth thing got me thinking. Has New Spring actually helped close or consolidate other churches because they left for Perry World?

The Wal-Mart effect.

 

[gardentiger]

Re: sdtiger9

homie, I think the difference is my pastor is open to correction. About every month from the pulpit he tells the congregation that "I really feel like I could trick you if I wanted to. You need to be checking me and going to the scriptures at the Bereans did and make sure I am consistent."

Originally posted by haymond1977:

Originally posted by Tigerbomb:
Always, and I mean always, be leery of any person that claims God spoke to them in order to relay a message. Claims of that nature usually end in disaster. I can deal with someone who says "felt led" or "it was layed on my heart" but when someone claims God directly spoke to me and wants me to tell you this or that you need to distance yourself from that person, especially when it comes to God's word.

I have news for Mr. Noble.....God didn't make a mistake with what was written in the bible and he doesn't need anyone to tell us what he really meant 5000 years later. It's scary that people are trying to defend this.

I am not trying to defend this. I just don't hang on every word of your pastor says and pounce when he says something that can be twisted. I do agree it is not smart to change the meaning of the commandments but all of this hate reaks of the pharaohs picking everything Jesus did apart. You leave no choice but for NS owners, members, attendees or whatever we can be called not to get mocked, to be defensive.

I promise I will not try to look up your Church's and pastors sermons and find flaws in them. And as far as the commandments thing, i'm not sure, I don't speak hebrew. He may be wrong on this occasion. Doesn't change my opinion of NS, PN one bit.

 

[haymond1977]

Originally posted by SDTiger9:
The growth thing got me thinking. Has New Spring actually helped close or consolidate other churches because they left for Perry World?

The Wal-Mart effect.

I'm sure it has but is that so wrong? I have never heard PN say, you should leave your Church. I have never heard him say you get to heaven quicker over here or you can tithe 9% for 12 months. Churches are closing their doors all over the US right now at an alarming rate.

 

[gardentiger]

Celebrity leads to narcissism almost 100% of the time.

 

[haymond1977]

Originally posted by lswon812:

Originally posted by haymond1977:

Originally posted by MaduroTiger:

Originally posted by acwill07:
LOL at Perry Noble. Newspring is more of a cult than a church and I really can't understand why anyone would go there. On top of him distorting the Bible's teachings to benefit his own financial gain, he is simply a prick.....refuses to preside over marriages and funerals of church members (or owners if you are wacky). Tells me all I need to know.

Check out the link....calls Christians who don't tithe a full 10% idiots.

That's the first time I've watched this after hearing about him saying that and that's absolutely pathetic. He has people brainwashed. Not that I care but since when did pastors start wearing acdc looking shirts while giving a sermon?

Here is the problem. You say he is brainwashing his Church but offer nothing to support it. Then you focus on the fact he is not wearing a religious outfit.

NS is not for everyone mean it's probably not for you. I could care less that he is not wearing a black robe and using words that have not been spoken in 100 years. I don't blame you for wanting that in your Church... why do you care about mine? Because it is not yours? I have gone to NS for about 8 years now. It's over the top, wild and pushes the envelop but, believe it or not, does preach the gospel. Attendance has grown more in ten years then any other Church in America. God speaks of witnessing and bringing people to the Church. How is your Church attendance? Most on here sound bitter that people have left their Church for NS. Think there might be a reason for that? They complain about people leaving for NS and condemning NS in the same breathe. Condemning another Church! That you have no evidence that God is not completely honoring! To me people have some sand to do that and sound righteous about the reverence of their Church.

And as far as the N word comment, I won't cop out and say it sounds muddled or like he cut his words short. Again, I don't hang on every word your pastor preaches and it leaves me very defensive when out of 100's of hours of sermons this year, you find one audible that sounds like he said something bad. Should I leave NS because he may have uttered a curse word? Or because you say I should? Is this really the smoking gun you have been looking for? Sounds to me like people are saying, he said a bad word and he is like cult leader. What do they have to do with each other? I'll pray that God heals PN's foul mouth. Is that not good enough?

First off, no, GOD does not speak of bringing people to the church. Jesus instructed us to go and make disciples. The early church was instructed to GO and witness, not bring a ton of people to one place. Go and study how Jesus made disciples then look at your church (any church) and compare and contrast. This led me and the family to pick another church. Perry is a very good speaker, and I do believe he wants to reach people and spread the gospel...however, I think it's watered down and some very vital parts of Jesus' instructions to his disciples are not emphasized at NS.

"Serving" has been turned in to events instead of an everyday thing of how you should impact where you live, work, and play. When we attended, serving was how are you volunteering at the church? Perry and staff were going to scrub the roster of people that weren't volunteering. Why not emphasize "how are you serving those around you?" We tried to volunteer at the Anderson campus and my wife and I were both told in so many words "we don't really have a place for you to help". Instead of worrying about if people are helping at the church, give them ideas or opportunities to serve others.

"Disciple making" is left into the hands of the "owners" instead of being modeled by the church leaders. How are you expected to make a disciple if you're a new believer and aren't given any mentoring. This is a big deal to me as NS reaches a lot of "new Christians" but offers minimal guidance on this part.

Jesus rebuked his disciples for turning little children away during his teachings, yet at NS you can't bring anyone younger than a 5th grader into the service and if you leave you have to spend the remainder of the service watching on TV. Perry says it's for the interruptions, but again, this seems more driven my man, for a performance, than out of teaching of the word.

I look at Acts 2, especially the last few verses, as a model for the modern church. What does it say when Peter could spend time with others..praying, eating, whatever but today a preacher says he won't marry you, bury you, and has an escort of security to get him through his own church?

I'm not saying NS is wrong...or that if you go there you're not a "true Christian", these are just a few of the issues that led us to leave.

I don't want to argue semantics with you. I don't care if PN Marries or comes see me in the hospital. It's not what I need. It may be what you need and I don't falt you one bit for attending your Church for that. It is not for everyone. My Grandmother would hate NS and she should stay at here Church. It's okay to not to like NS or it's style, it's another thing to hang around waiting for PN to mess up and jump on it. It's pathetic.

Thanks for not judging me and I hope you have a great new year Brother.

 

[Esso Porch]

Love reading these threads. I've seen a few mentions of Hebrew in here but have any of you ever been with a Greek speaking woman? It'll change your outlook on life

 

[Ron Munson]

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if PN told his flock God told him they should all switch to Hellman's and no longer use Dukes mayonaise.

 

[nmerritt11]

Originally posted by Ron Munson:
Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if PN told his flock God told him they should all switch to Hellman's and no longer use Dukes mayonaise.

he would be banished straight to hell for this

 

[tiger-gal2]

OP I hope 3 pages has helped to answer your question

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Originally posted by matt9679:

I get that no one is perfect, but PN apparently changed the teachings of God. That's goes far beyond not being perfect and is staggering into the realm of cultish. I do not think the size of a church is an issue at all. The fact that this man is standing in front of thousands of ppl and blatantly changing the fundamental teachings of a religion is though, and should scare the hell out of ppl in the church.

I don't think God would tell a preacher in 2014 to go ahead and change the commandments he gave his followers thousands of years ago. If God didn't lay on his heart to change this, then the bible says only one other person/being can claim responsibility for it. It may just be me, but this would be enough to cause at least a bit of pause when contemplating the direction this man is taking this church.

There are plenty of good churches in the world with good Godly men leading them. If I cared enough to take the time out of my life to attend church. I would take the time to look around and make sure I was in one where I felt perfectly at peace. Just an opinion.

Except that isn't correct at all. He simply preached on the theological meaning of "The Ten Commandments." It's like some of you think the Bible actually says "here are the Ten Commandments!" and then lists them with numbers next to them and says "don't try to understand how these words from God connect to anything else in the rest of scripture." The thing is, every pastor at every church preaches about scripture in this way, but because Noble is the flamboyant pastor of a large church, there are lots of little people sniping at everything he says.

Further, interpreting certain words from God in Exodus as a distinct set of only ten commandments is already a theological interpretation that would "change the teachings of God," according to your criteria. It isn't at all clear that what we call the "Ten Commandments" are separate from other things that God says in Exodus, and it isn't clear that these words are (only) commandments. In fact, some distinguished scholars (like Leon Kass) have pointed out almost exactly what Noble preached: that the "Ten Commandments" are better understood as a preamble to the law, as general ground rules for the covenant God has with his people.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Originally posted by tigerjl:
I get the promises part I do...and while I think he did a horrible job of tying those promises to the actual Bible, I don't have a problem with the promises approach to the new covenant, etc.

I do have a problem with him saying the commandments are not commandments and flippantly discrediting them. That was a total misrepresentation of the scripture and manipulation of his audience...many of whom take his word as the gospel.

Here's what I think happened...perry wasn't happy with the video sermon. The music wasn't great, there wasn't an emotional response, people weren't making decisions....so he felt like he needed to mix it up.

He wasn't prepared, put this together last minute, and his team didn't have time to vet the sermon and tell him he was off base.

I don't think he is the anti-Christ. I don't doubt people who never heard the gospel did that night and God worked DESPITE Perry.

I do think you owe it to yourself to really question that sermon and what it says about your pastor.

The Bible does say that "the Ten Commandments" are "commandments," either. That's a later theological interpretation, like the Trinity is a later theological interpretation. That doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't imply the Trinity or Ten Commandments from Him, but it does mean that we need to refer to a tradition of interpretation and a tradition of theology when we say "the Bible says this," rather than pretending that anybody who says anything different is "flippantly discrediting" anything.

Now, that's not to put the Trinity and the Ten Commandments on the same level. One is a doctrine about who God is, and one is a doctrine about a set of laws that God set out in scripture. On the one hand, you have a foundational belief. On the other hand, you have specific laws given once a foundation has already been set. In the case of "The Ten Commandments," though, what you've got is a bracketing of ten things that God said in Exodus. Since the Bible never calls them "commandments," and since there are a number of other laws set out in Exodus (and throughout the Bible) and since the entire Bible is an account of God speaking, it isn't clear to me why anybody would be so offended by somebody like Noble trying to assess the "commandments" in the light of the entirety of scripture. Given the rest of the Bible, in which Jesus is the fulfillment of law, I think Noble is entirely correct to think of the importance of "the Ten Commandments" as being more about promises than laws. Even Jewish scholars, for whom law is paramount, suggest the same thing.

 

[TAINT_PAINT]

Originally posted by camcgee:

Originally posted by tigerjl:
I get the promises part I do...and while I think he did a horrible job of tying those promises to the actual Bible, I don't have a problem with the promises approach to the new covenant, etc.

I do have a problem with him saying the commandments are not commandments and flippantly discrediting them. That was a total misrepresentation of the scripture and manipulation of his audience...many of whom take his word as the gospel.

Here's what I think happened...perry wasn't happy with the video sermon. The music wasn't great, there wasn't an emotional response, people weren't making decisions....so he felt like he needed to mix it up.

He wasn't prepared, put this together last minute, and his team didn't have time to vet the sermon and tell him he was off base.

I don't think he is the anti-Christ. I don't doubt people who never heard the gospel did that night and God worked DESPITE Perry.

I do think you owe it to yourself to really question that sermon and what it says about your pastor.

The Bible does say that "the Ten Commandments" are "commandments," either. That's a later theological interpretation, like the Trinity is a later theological interpretation. That doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't imply the Trinity or Ten Commandments from Him, but it does mean that we need to refer to a tradition of interpretation and a tradition of theology when we say "the Bible says this," rather than pretending that anybody who says anything different is "flippantly discrediting" anything.

Now, that's not to put the Trinity and the Ten Commandments on the same level. One is a doctrine about who God is, and one is a doctrine about a set of laws that God set out in scripture. On the one hand, you have a foundational belief. On the other hand, you have specific laws given once a foundation has already been set. In the case of "The Ten Commandments," though, what you've got is a bracketing of ten things that God said in Exodus. Since the Bible never calls them "commandments," and since there are a number of other laws set out in Exodus (and throughout the Bible) and since the entire Bible is an account of God speaking, it isn't clear to me why anybody would be so offended by somebody like Noble trying to assess the "commandments" in the light of the entirety of scripture. Given the rest of the Bible, in which Jesus is the fulfillment of law, I think Noble is entirely correct to think of the importance of "the Ten Commandments" as being more about promises than laws. Even Jewish scholars, for whom law is paramount, suggest the same thing.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Re: haymond1977

Originally posted by poates6:
That is very well said sir! (or could be ma'am i guess.)

I as well think its crazy to hang on every word and shows a total lack of grace to pounce. I do wonder how people would like it if every sermon their pastor preached were picked apart.

My guess is that would not go so well.

Well said, well said.

"Lack of grace" is what people on the internet do. And the thing is, it wouldn't matter what some other pastor of a large church in SC was saying, they'd criticize every small thing they could find about them, too.

 

[JamesD7]

Sorry, just getting in on this. Did'nt read anything but his sermon and that was enough! Anybody that thinks they can re-write the Bible because God told him to is in the VERY VERY LEAST a Scary Man. I hope for the sake of those attending he is not a false prophet. Just unbelievable! Can't wait until his "MESSAGE" hit's mainstream. Talk about a SH!TSTORM Honestley, can't wait to here what language his "god' talked to him in and told him to change the "10 commandment's" to something that is 180 degree's opposite. THIS is going to be a MONUMENTAL COLLASSAL NIGHTMARE>

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Originally posted by Tigerbomb:

Originally posted by acwill07:
LOL at Perry Noble. Newspring is more of a cult than a church and I really can't understand why anyone would go there. On top of him distorting the Bible's teachings to benefit his own financial gain, he is simply a prick.....refuses to preside over marriages and funerals of church members (or owners if you are wacky). Tells me all I need to know.

Check out the link....calls Christians who don't tithe a full 10% idiots.

PN is way off base with his tithing teaching. I love how he glosses over the "Old Testament Law" argument and goes straight into "it was a principle that was established by Cain and Able". Read your bible again Perry.

The truth is we are told give cheerfully and help those in need. We are told to look into our hearts and decide how much to give. This nonsense that it is 10% because it was established in the Old Testament is just false.

Its even more sickening that PN insinuates that you will be punished in some way if you don't give 10% of your money. The bible is crystal clear that "giving" is not just money.

So much fail in that rant and how arrogant for him to say "you don't want to play the bible game with me."

Actually, what you're saying is a minority view among orthodox Christians. You might want to re-check your theology, because you're the one that's heterodox.

 

[TAINT_PAINT]

Originally posted by JamesD7:
Sorry, just getting in on this. Did'nt read anything but his sermon and that was enough! Anybody that thinks they can re-write the Bible because God told him to is in the VERY VERY LEAST a Scary Man. I hope for the sake of those attending he is not a false prophet. Just unbelievable! Can't wait until his "MESSAGE" hit's mainstream. Talk about a SH!TSTORM Honestley, can't wait to here what language his "god' talked to him in and told him to change the "10 commandment's" to something that is 180 degree's opposite. THIS is going to be a MONUMENTAL COLLASSAL NIGHTMARE>

 

[RodnHe]

Sorry Guys if I get this thread deleted!

No matter how you spin it PN said the "N" word in CHURCH! He changed God's Word. Read it for yourself, almost any version and you will not find the TEN PROMISES. The Law was a way to show man his sin against GOD. Thankfully, Jesus came and died on a cross for me an you and now we, who beleive live under His Grace. You want to know why PN changed God's Word he does not like all of it!!

Exodus 20

1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

13 Thou shalt not kill.

14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

15 Thou shalt not steal.

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

 

[NavyTigerSC]

Next week, Perry gonna get the owners involved with Amway and everybody is going to make bijillions of faith dollars.

 

[Ron Munson]

TigerBomb is 100% accurate on his views on tithing. The 10% is old Jewish law and not part of the New Covenant. Go read Corinthians.

Church's need your money so of course they are going to pump the 10% rule.

 

[TAINT_PAINT]

Originally posted by Ron Munson:
TigerBomb is 100% accurate on his views on tithing. The 10% is old Jewish law and not part of the New Covenant. Go read Corinthians.

Church's need your money so of course they are going to pump the 10% rule.

 

[lswon812]

Originally posted by haymond1977:
SWU Tiger again man, to each his own. The Bible says tithe to Church. I go to NS so I tithe to NS. 1000's of kids go to FL and get saved by NS. This is why I give. Does your Church do so much more? Do you tithe to United Way? Do you Tithe? I really don't care if you give 100% of a million or 0% of nothing. It's a personal decision between you and God IMO.

Don't misunderstand me. I care where my money goes. I just don't have to know where every dime goes to give with faith. I have never seen one iota of proof that NS misappropriates money. Other than some saying, doesn't he live in a big house? Don't care one bit if he lives in a 5,000 sq ft home. Now if he lived in a 10 million dollar mansion, it should raise some eyebrows. But if he did, the pharaoh's would have found it by now.

n

This post was edited on 1/4 10:01 PM by haymond1977

Umm...churches don't save anyone. This is the line of thinking that draws so much criticism from "haters". Perry Noble has NEVER saved anyone...and never will. The thing is, you got to a service and you hear how many people NS reached the past week/holiday season/whatever, but never, "listen to how many people Jesus saved..." NO other church has it's members wearing "I love my church". Why can't the shirt say "I love Jesus"?

Answer me this...if Perry wasn't preaching there anymore would it make a difference if you attended? Do you have that kind of relationship with the other believers you fellowship with or is it just Perry?

 

[Ron Munson]

Originally posted by lswon812:

Originally posted by haymond1977:
SWU Tiger again man, to each his own. The Bible says tithe to Church. I go to NS so I tithe to NS. 1000's of kids go to FL and get saved by NS. This is why I give. Does your Church do so much more? Do you tithe to United Way? Do you Tithe? I really don't care if you give 100% of a million or 0% of nothing. It's a personal decision between you and God IMO.

Don't misunderstand me. I care where my money goes. I just don't have to know where every dime goes to give with faith. I have never seen one iota of proof that NS misappropriates money. Other than some saying, doesn't he live in a big house? Don't care one bit if he lives in a 5,000 sq ft home. Now if he lived in a 10 million dollar mansion, it should raise some eyebrows. But if he did, the pharaoh's would have found it by now.

n

This post was edited on 1/4 10:01 PM by haymond1977

Umm...churches don't save anyone. This is the line of thinking that draws so much criticism from "haters". Perry Noble has NEVER saved anyone...and never will. The thing is, you got to a service and you hear how many people NS reached the past week/holiday season/whatever, but never, "listen to how many people Jesus saved..." NO other church has it's members wearing "I love my church". Why can't the shirt say "I love Jesus"?

Answer me this...if Perry wasn't preaching there anymore would it make a difference if you attended? Do you have that kind of relationship with the other believers you fellowship with or is it just Perry?

I would bet money a good portion of those "saved" at NewSpring have been "saved" multiple times...however NS does not care about this. There motives are all about numbers. I don't think I have ever seen a church promote the number of people saved like NS does.

 

[scartiger]

RodnHe I don't know any true man of God that would use the N or the D (cuss word) in the pulpit or any where else for that matter. And those are commandments telling us not to do those things.

 

[Ron Munson]

Originally posted by scartiger:
RodnHe I don't know any true man of God that would use the N or the D (cuss word) in the pulpit or any where else for that matter. And those are commandments telling us not to do those things.

What about calling people "idiots" because they want to study the Bible deeper? or Calling people "stupid" for questioning tithing? Or telling people they "suck at life" because they don't like the music style at NewSpring?

Or playing Highway to Hell as an opening song?

Or tell people not to invite him over for dinner because he doesn't want to "sit around a table with people that make me uncomfortable and eat food I don't like"

 

[JamesD7]

The "LORD" told him to deliver this Message. Even his spokeperson say's The "LORD" told him to deliver this blasphemy and he is supported still? I mean the"LORD"," OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR" Gave this message to pn to spread to the masses that his word now usurped CHRIST' WORD'S?????

 

[Tigerbomb]

Originally posted by camcgee:

Originally posted by Tigerbomb:

Originally posted by acwill07:
LOL at Perry Noble. Newspring is more of a cult than a church and I really can't understand why anyone would go there. On top of him distorting the Bible's teachings to benefit his own financial gain, he is simply a prick.....refuses to preside over marriages and funerals of church members (or owners if you are wacky). Tells me all I need to know.

Check out the link....calls Christians who don't tithe a full 10% idiots.

PN is way off base with his tithing teaching. I love how he glosses over the "Old Testament Law" argument and goes straight into "it was a principle that was established by Cain and Able". Read your bible again Perry.

The truth is we are told give cheerfully and help those in need. We are told to look into our hearts and decide how much to give. This nonsense that it is 10% because it was established in the Old Testament is just false.

Its even more sickening that PN insinuates that you will be punished in some way if you don't give 10% of your money. The bible is crystal clear that "giving" is not just money.

So much fail in that rant and how arrogant for him to say "you don't want to play the bible game with me."

Actually, what you're saying is a minority view among orthodox Christians. You might want to re-check your theology, because you're the one that's heterodox.

Wrong. If you can point to a place in the Bible where Jesus says give 10% I will gladly change my view on tithing. Jesus replaced the old law.

The truth is Jesus said you should give up everything you own to follow him. He didn't bring up the old law and say give me 10%. It is written that you should find in your own heart what you can give and do so cheerfully. For some that may be 1% and for others that may be 90%. The 10% is a weak attempt by modern preachers to guilt you into tithing.

I am not advocating not tithing. I tithe myself. We are commanded to give by Jesus. We are not commanded by him to give 10% or face the consequences. That is what PN and prosperity preachers like him are trying convince members to believe.

 

[RodnHe]

Hey lswon, I brought this to haymond1977 attention in this thread. He agreed that he should of chosen his words differently. I believe haymond and most people who support NS are good people, some have just been confused by PN. Another poster mentioned that the reason a lot of people don't like NS is because their church as lost members to NS. This is probably true. I know of three churches close to NS that have closed the doors. I blame a lot of that on traditional churches.

We (traditional churches) have become so legalistic and judgmental, that we have pushed many away. We became the clothes police and followed strict to other traditions that are not even in the Bible. Today we find ourselves seeing people flock to NS and other "hip", "cool" and self fulfilling churches. I think its time we ask why, why do people would go to NS and hear the pastor cuss, use the "N" word and change God's Word and believe that is acceptable to God. You do not have to worry if it offends me. It offends GOD to cuss in HIS house.

 

[tiger-gal2]

When the congregation of a church has to backpedal and make excuses for its leader, that's not a good sign. Perry Noble does a lot of things that are contradictory to what is taught in the Bible. For some reason his followers rush to defend his behavior and rationalize it at every turn.

 

[SDTiger9]

Originally posted by RodnHe:
Hey lswon, I brought this to haymond1977 attention in this thread. He agreed that he should of chosen his words differently. I believe haymond and most people who support NS are good people, some have just been confused by PN. Another poster mentioned that the reason a lot of people don't like NS is because their church as lost members to NS. This is probably true. I know of three churches close to NS that have closed the doors. I blame a lot of that on traditional churches.

We (traditional churches) have become so legalistic and judgmental, that we have pushed many away. We became the clothes police and followed strict to other traditions that are not even in the Bible. Today we find ourselves seeing people flock to NS and other "hip", "cool" and self fulfilling churches. I think its time we ask why, why do people would go to NS and hear the pastor cuss, use the "N" word and change God's Word and believe that is acceptable to God. You do not have to worry if it offends me. It offends GOD to cuss in HIS house.

The Catholic Church certainly says hi here. Talk about an organization that had ZERO chance staying long term relevant without finally looking into the mirror. Knowing the church as I do, it had Wake Forest national title chances. Then, Pope Francis popped in. Someone who truly gets what a church leader should be about. I'm not going back but I have a ton of respect for what he has and is doing. Someone who finally tapped into the real human side of life. Hopefully other churches are doing more of that.

 

[lswon812]

Originally posted by RodnHe:
Hey lswon, I brought this to haymond1977 attention in this thread. He agreed that he should of chosen his words differently. I believe haymond and most people who support NS are good people, some have just been confused by PN. Another poster mentioned that the reason a lot of people don't like NS is because their church as lost members to NS. This is probably true. I know of three churches close to NS that have closed the doors. I blame a lot of that on traditional churches.

We (traditional churches) have become so legalistic and judgmental, that we have pushed many away. We became the clothes police and followed strict to other traditions that are not even in the Bible. Today we find ourselves seeing people flock to NS and other "hip", "cool" and self fulfilling churches. I think its time we ask why, why do people would go to NS and hear the pastor cuss, use the "N" word and change God's Word and believe that is acceptable to God. You do not have to worry if it offends me. It offends GOD to cuss in HIS house.

Yea, I think I can safely assume haymond knows a "church" doesn't save people, I was merely pointing out what's marketed at NS, and that is, look at what NS is doing to reach people. I went there for a couple years while I attended Clemson and then again after they built off of 81. I've been there. I've met with the "campus pastor" out there, I've volunteered there, etc.

People go there because of the production. Simple as that. The vast majority of my friends that go there reference the music, the cool sermons, which serves what NS is trying to do...attract people that wouldn't otherwise attend church. I love that. I get it. The church I attend now follows that part similarly. We have people that attend wearing flip flops, jeans and t-shirt to the more "traditional attire" and anything in between.

Furthermore, it's not my opinion that it's the number of people that go there that proves anything wrong. If PN was more personable, actually interacted with the "owners" outside of church, baptized normal people too instead of just the famous people, and was less polarizing with some of the things he says from the "pulpit" I think the numbers would be similar.

It's the "deeper" stuff (man that sounds corny). I actually think NS is a great model to follow, it obviously works at reaching the "fringe" people. But once you get them there, invest in them. Make them disciples...make THAT as much of an emphasis as gaining numbers.

 

[scartiger]

Ron Munson I agree he shouldn't say any of those also.
Minister: Synonyms-Tend to, care for, take care of, look after, attend to, see to, administer to, help, assist.
Now how can he do any of those things when he don't visit anyone in the hospital or who is sick at home, doesn't do funerals or weddings. I'm thankful I go to a church where I can call on my pastor day or night and he'll be there. And I go to a large church also.

 

[Ron Munson]

Originally posted by scartiger:
Ron Munson I agree he shouldn't say any of those also.
Minister: Synonyms-Tend to, care for, take care of, look after, attend to, see to, administer to, help, assist.
Now how can he do any of those things when he don't visit anyone in the hospital or who is sick at home, doesn't do funerals or weddings. I'm thankful I go to a church where I can call on my pastor day or night and he'll be there. And I go to a large church also.

Whenever my family has been in a time of need, whether it be a death in the family or an illness, the preacher was always one of the first ones there. This is something very valuable to have access to in those tough times.

You do not have access to that at NS.

Does NS do funerals at all? If you die, where do you have your funeral?

 

[LVC11]