⚖️ MURDAUGH MURDERS & TRIAL THREAD ⚖️

[TigerTC]

Everyone keeps espousing the "hired killer" theory, but other than the fact that you'd think AM would have a much better alibi than his BS if he'd hired someone to do it...

..there is not one scintilla of evidence that anyone else was at the scene at any time before law enforcement arrived a little after 2200.

 

[jeffcoat]

No. But he charges them on the "law" and how they must apply the facts to the law. Fighting over jury charges is one of the biggest pains in the ass in trial work. Again, I don't do direct criminal work, I associate lawyers in on cases where clients have criminal exposure and then participate in the process, so the jury charge process may be different in criminal cases but I have been in trials that we felt were lost/won on the jury charge instructions.

Thanks. I said weeks ago whether the prosecution has to prove he shot them or just be there is the most important part of this whole thing.. It'll be interesting what the judge tells them.

 

[Boom4life]

Can multiple attorneys participate in the rhe closing for each side?

Don't know if I would want just Harpootlian on a senior ramble when my life depended on it.

To answer your question no they can not. He asked and was turned down. That has never happened in sc that the judge could recall.

Secondly your last sentence is way off base. You don’t understand closing is where he will excel. You don’t get to his status as a trial lawyer and not be a hell of a closure. It will be a show tomorrow.

 

[Clemblack]

Those aren't things "wrong" with my post, just a disagreement as to the weight of the evidence or simple wording, which is fine. For example, I say it is not conclusively established that they were familiar with the shooter. You say "they were likely familiar". We are saying the same thing. There is no evidence that there was no one else on the property. Do you think a hired killer would talk, make noise or bring a cell phone? Of course not. I am not saying there was one, but there could be. As to how another gun was loaded, to me, that is meaningless, but just my opinion.

Cases can be circumstantial without a doubt many are. But that is why it is so important for the State's case to be clean and this one is not. I think he is guilty, but I also think defense has introduced enough for some juror(s) to have reasonable doubt.

I don't know the makeup of the jury, but if there is one that has a distrust of the police/law enforcement, they have enough to move the needle. No one, no one, no one can predict what a jury will do however, so we will see.

There is evidence that no one else is on the property, and I listed it in my previous post. You seem to confuse "evidence" with "proof." The evidence I listed does not 100% prove there was nobody else on the property. But it's evidence nonetheless.

I suspect you also misunderstand the evidence regarding the blackout 300 because you say "as to how another gun was loaded is meaningless." The gun that killed Maggie was owned by Alex Murdaugh. This is what the evidence shows, unless you flat-out disagree with the casing forensics.

 

[Boom4life]

Let’s say Alex did hire someone and they showed up a little earlier than expected.

Alex had the guns set up for him. Alex helps cover it up, etc.

Would you have to have a separate trial for that scenario or could the jury still vote murder if Alex hired it out but was basically standing beside the guy who pulled the trigger. Is that still murder in SC?

Evidence of a second shooter would have had to be presented in court for a hand of one is a hand of all to apply. There wasn’t.

However, the charge to the jury will state if that is on the table or not and I believe it will not even be brought up for the reason I stated above.

 

[pwjacks]

There is evidence that no one else is on the property, and I listed it in my previous post. You seem to confuse "evidence" with "proof." The evidence I listed does not 100% prove there was nobody else on the property. But it's evidence nonetheless.

I suspect you also misunderstand the evidence regarding the blackout 300 because you say "as to how another gun was loaded is meaningless." The gun that killed Maggie was owned by Alex Murdaugh. This is what the evidence shows, unless you flat-out disagree with the casing forensics.

The reference to how the gun was loaded was the shotgun shells. Not worth arguing about any of it. Trust me though, I understand the difference between evidence and proof.

 

[Boom4life]

The reference to how the gun was loaded was the shotgun shells. Not worth arguing about any of it. Trust me though, I understand the difference between evidence and proof.

Problem is he doesn’t. If there is evidence to it then the state’s story has to be 100% fact to him.

 

[jeffcoat]

I will apologize in advance especially to @castlesl - not been 100% health wise and didn’t finish what I started on the proposed closing

my money is on a hung jury

If convicted, it will be because of 100 years of being a Murdaugh caught up with him and jurors saw through it - this shouldn’t happen (Netflix effect) - but maybe the BS got so deep the jury let’s him drown in it

No need to apologize my friend. You have been a huge asset to this thread, as have been many others who have watched the trial every day.

 

[VaTiger85]

I expect the defense to make a huge deal about Alex "owning up" to all of his stealing and just how hard it had to be for him to do that and sit through 2 weeks of having each excruciating detail shown to the world. (Irregrardless that he didn't have a choice, all of that was coming sooner or later).

But that he has WILLINGLY (Poot's words) done that and will face the consequences of many years behind bars like a man.

But do not use those facts to convict him of a crime he DID NOT COMMIT again his beloved Mags and PawPaw, who he would never harm in any way.

Something like that.

 

[Clemblack]

The fact that you call it a blackout 300 is laughable. You seem to misunderstand that you don’t have to have evidence to the doubt, to have doubt. You can just simply say to yourself wait, something doesn't add up for me. He has a point that the evidence doesn’t hold exactly eliminate the reasonable possibility someone else was there unbeknownst to the three that were there and the dogs that would have been distracted by their owners being there.

What?

 

[purenonsense]

Yeah it keeps getting brought up by both sides. What I find interesting is he doesn't include his wife by saying THEM. Pretty strange to me.

meaning the hired killers or the hit men blew his son's brains out and did a sloppy job?

 

[Clemblack]

The reference to how the gun was loaded was the shotgun shells. Not worth arguing about any of it. Trust me though, I understand the difference between evidence and proof.

I was talking about 300 blackout casings. I suspected that you did not understand (and if you do, my apologies) that the evidence shows Maggie was killed with a gun that had been fired multiple times before at Moselle.


And I know you did not ask, but Alex also had .... wait for it ... a missing 300 blackout.

 

[pwjacks]

I was talking about 300 blackout casings.

I wasn't and you quoted me.

 

[DiscountJohnnyManziel]

SIAP on another page, but the attorney general examining a witness...means the prosecution feels pretty confident, right? Him jumping in creates a heightened level of ownership in the outcome.

 

[santee]

I will apologize in advance especially to @castlesl - not been 100% health wise and didn’t finish what I started on the proposed closing

my money is on a hung jury

If convicted, it will be because of 100 years of being a Murdaugh caught up with him and jurors saw through it - this shouldn’t happen (Netflix effect) - but maybe the BS got so deep the jury let’s him drown in it

Probably will be a hung jury

However, if convicted it will be because the jury saw through his theatrics and attempt at manipulation and convicted his GUILTY ass.

 

[Clemblack]

I wasn't and you quoted me.

You originally quoted cutrutiger4life when he said "the victims were shot with guns that are missing from the property." You challenged that, and I've explained that Maggie was indeed shot with a 300 blackout that is missing from the property.

Pretty big deal in the case.

 

[jeffcoat]

The fact that you call it a blackout 300 is laughable. You seem to misunderstand that you don’t have to have evidence to the doubt, to have doubt. You can just simply say to yourself wait, something doesn't add up for me. He has a point that the evidence doesn’t hold exactly eliminate the reasonable possibility someone else was there unbeknownst to the three that were there and the dogs that would have been distracted by their owners being there.

What is wrong with calling it a blackout 300

 

[Clemblack]

The fact that you call it a blackout 300 is laughable. You seem to misunderstand that you don’t have to have evidence to the doubt, to have doubt. You can just simply say to yourself wait, something doesn't add up for me. He has a point that the evidence doesn’t hold exactly eliminate the reasonable possibility someone else was there unbeknownst to the three that were there and the dogs that would have been distracted by their owners being there.

I will give anyone on here $100 if they can explain that text to me.

 

[Clemblack]

I will apologize in advance especially to @castlesl - not been 100% health wise and didn’t finish what I started on the proposed closing

my money is on a hung jury

If convicted, it will be because of 100 years of being a Murdaugh caught up with him and jurors saw through it - this shouldn’t happen (Netflix effect) - but maybe the BS got so deep the jury let’s him drown in it

What do you think the likelihood is of a guilty verdict? 50%? 90%?

 

[gooddogjudge]

What do you think the likelihood is of a guilty verdict? 50%? 90%?

I say 75% hung jury , 25% guilty

 

[sloanMB]

SIAP on another page, but the attorney general examining a witness...means the prosecution feels pretty confident, right? Him jumping in creates a heightened level of ownership in the outcome.

Is this his very first direct involvement with the trial?

 

[gooddogjudge]

I think today was a huge day for the defense. To get a state expert to come in and basically refute his own testimony from earlier in the trial is huge.

Kinsey laid out a description of what happens a couple weeks ago. Today he testifies we don’t really know what happened.

That’s huge, I think we are moving closer to an acquittal now.

Did we watch the same thing today? I couldn't disagree more.

 

[gooddogjudge]

Is this his very first direct involvement with the trial?

He's been at the state's table every day...or almost every day.

 

[Boom4life]

I will give anyone on here $100 if they can explain that text to me.

That was suppose to be deleted and never sent. I do apologize. I screwed that one up. He’s not guilty. It will be a hung jury and this thread shows that. I’m out. See y’all after the verdict.

It’s stupid because it’s not called a blackout 300. it’s a 300 AAC blackout. And it’s on every box of ammo you can find for it.

 

[DiscountJohnnyManziel]

Is this his very first direct involvement with the trial?

I had thought it was his first examination of a witness.

 

[poates6]

Did we watch the same thing today? I couldn't disagree more.

I’m not sure. Tell me what you saw so we can determine if it was the same thing.

Today was a very good day for the defense. Very good.

 

[gooddogjudge]

I’m not sure. Tell me what you saw so we can determine if it was the same thing.

Today was a very good day for the defense. Very good.

For starters Kinsey (sp?) dismantled Jim.

 

[PawJourney]

Let's do this TI members.

Membership criteria over 5'2".

 

[pwjacks]

If anybody is really bored, but wants to read about jury instructions on circumstantial evidence and reasonable doubt....

SC Judicial Department

 

[jeffcoat]

That was suppose to be deleted and never sent. I do apologize. I screwed that one up. He’s not guilty. It will be a hung jury and this thread shows that. I’m out. See y’all after the verdict.

It’s stupid because it’s not called a blackout 300. it’s a 300 AAC blackout. And it’s on every box of ammo you can find for it.

haha. 99% of posts ITT call it a blackout 300. Maybe some call it a blackout .300.

 

[poates6]

For starters Kinsey (sp?) dismantled Jim.

We did watch something different then. Kinsey dismantled his own testimony from a couple weeks ago. It was impressive.

 

[gooddogjudge]

We did watch something different then. Kinsey dismantled his own testimony from a couple weeks ago. It was impressive.

You talking about the cardboard deal? That's a non issue in grand scheme of things.

He dismantled one by one every theory the defense put forth from location of shooter, trajectory of shot, how it didn't have to be a midget, blood spatter, void areas, why 2 weapons would be used, etc.

What did I miss?

 

[PawJourney]

We've established a Forge account that you can just deposit the money into.

Is that the one that routing through Bank of America as Ellick Murderer dba Forge?

 

[Clemblack]

I thought Crosby's testimony was impactful for the prosecution. As was Kinsey's of course.

 

[castlesl]

I will apologize in advance especially to @castlesl - not been 100% health wise and didn’t finish what I started on the proposed closing

my money is on a hung jury

If convicted, it will be because of 100 years of being a Murdaugh caught up with him and jurors saw through it - this shouldn’t happen (Netflix effect) - but maybe the BS got so deep the jury let’s him drown in it

No apology needed.

The likelihood of a hung jury is certainly there, no question. LE has been roundly skewered over the course of this case, much of that is certainly warranted, I don’t think all of it is. Had they done a better job, I would have a different opinion of the likely outcome.

I would say it is less than 5% chance of acquittal, 55% hung jury 45% guilty.

The reason I don’t have hung jury higher, and guilty as high as I do, is I believe there will be quite a bit of pressure to get to a verdict. The judge doesn’t want a hung jury and he will press them to deliver something unanimous. How hard does he push them?

As many have said, it only takes one to hang up the jury, but I suspect the pressure from the majority will be big in this deliberation as well. Clearly I am assuming the majority is sitting on guilty.

There is nothing particularly redeeming about Alex at this stage of the trial, I doubt anyone thinks he is innocent, like no question he didn’t do it innocent. My bet is about 3 that have doubts enough to start at not guilty.

Those that have doubts would probably tell you they think he did it there just not sure the evidence is there to get past reasonable doubt. Those folks are vulnerable to being flipped as time drags on and other jurors have a chance to challenge one another and have an open discussion about the facts, some of them probably move towards guilty. They may not all get there.

I agree, Alex being a Murdaugh at this moment likely hurts him.

Also - Poot rubs me the wrong way, he screams smug and entitled, somewhat like a Murdaugh. Jim is much more likable. I could see Poot pissing off some of the jury during closing.

 

[Clemblack]

We did watch something different then. Kinsey dismantled his own testimony from a couple weeks ago. It was impressive.

I'm sure that's exactly what the jury took from it.

"This dang Kinsey, up here dismantling what he already told us a couple weeks ago." lol

 

[castlesl]

Is this his very first direct involvement with the trial?

He has been at the table several times, that is all I believe.

 

[PawJourney]

Alex's alibi is what again?

He's too tall and too old. Shooter was a 12 year old and 5'2".

 

[gooddogjudge]

No apology needed.

The likelihood of a hung jury is certainly there, no question. LE has been roundly skewered over the course of this case, much of that is certainly warranted, I don’t think all of it is. Had they done a better job, I would have a different opinion of the likely outcome.

I would say it is less than 5% chance of acquittal, 55% hung jury 45% guilty.

The reason I don’t have hung jury higher, and guilty as high as I do, is I believe there will be quite a bit of pressure to get to a verdict. The judge doesn’t want a hung jury and he will press them to deliver something unanimous. How hard does he push them?

As many have said, it only takes one to hang up the jury, but I suspect the pressure from the majority will be big in this deliberation. Clearly I am assuming the majority is sitting on guilty.

There is nothing particularly redeeming about Alex at this stage of the trial, I doubt anyone thinks he is innocent, like no question he didn’t do it innocent. My bet is on around 3 that have doubts.

Those that have doubts would probably tell you they think he did it there just not sure the evidence is there to get past reasonable doubt. Those folks are vulnerable to being flipped as time drags on and the members have a chance to challenge one another and have an open discussion about the facts, some of them probably move towards guilty. They may not all get there.

I agree, Alex being a Murdaugh at this moment likely hurts him.

Also - Poot rubs me the wrong way, he screams smug and entitled, somewhat like a Murdaugh. Jim is much more likable. I could see Poot pissing off some of the jury during closing.

Poot yelling during the pathologist testimony didn't win him any favor in the jury.

 

[Cavitybacks]

For starters Kinsey (sp?) dismantled Jim.

I think the prosecution is wasting time with some of these rebuttal testimonies.

They should’ve called it quits. The further away from Alex’s testimony, the more time the defense has to muck up the waters for jury.

Prosecution should’ve moved to closing immediately imo.