⚖️ MURDAUGH MURDERS & TRIAL THREAD ⚖️

[PawsFan_]

Let's talk about AM's "suicide" attempt.

I have a feeling AM knew the heat was on. He needed to get the police from focusing on him to focusing on another suspect. So he calls Cousin Eddie under the pretense of either talking about "business" or making a buy. They pick a remote road. He knows Eddie carries a gun because of the business he's in. AM is a big guy. He thinks he can take Eddie in a struggle. He hopes to kill Eddie, maybe with a tire iron. After he kills Eddie and then he can tell police: "Eddie called me and said he had information about the murders. When I got here he was acting crazy. He told me he killed Maggie and Paul. However he really wanted to kill me: the Murdaugh that got away. He claimed I owed him money and that I would pay. He pulled his gun. We struggled and I killed him in self defense."

AM sets this up but it goes bad. Eddie pulls his gun in self defense and grazes AM. Eddie gets out of there because he has drugs in his car and doesn't want police attention. AM calls 911. His brothers evidentially get him to rehab because it insolates him from the police at some level. They use the drug addiction and suicide attempt as an excuse to hide the larger plan.

Eddie doesn't talk because he knows AM controls the local cops and he doesn't need police attention to his business.

Plausible?

 

[CUFam98]

Which podcast was that? I also wonder why he did not leave the country after the murders and before everyone was on to him if the money is in fact offshore.

It was a TV Station, CIV? Unsolved SC. Ann Emerson and Charlie Condon.

The reason why Condon thought it was risky was that he had a trial of his own thrown out on appeal because of that same reason.

 

[CUFam98]

Here is exactly what the SC Rule of Evidence says about that. There is also a substantial body of caselaw further interpreting 404(b) evidence.

(b) Other Crimes, Wrongs, or Acts. Evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is not admissible to prove the character of a person in order to show action in conformity therewith. It may, however, be admissible to show motive, identity, the existence of a common scheme or plan, the absence of mistake or accident, or intent.

I guess thats why they have appeals courts. Because someone's motive is very often based on one's character.

 

[CUFam98]

It's a legitimate legal question if he doesn't incriminate himself.

He incriminated himself.

Thats kinda what we are talking about. Why even risk it when you have him on so many other things?

The appeal feels more like continuing the grift than any chance of getting out of jail. But its a lifeline that didn't need to be thrown by the court/prosecutor.

 

[TigerTC]

I guess thats why they have appeals courts. Because someone's motive is very often based on one's character.

Judge Newman made specific findings that the evidence went to his motive. Appellate courts give the trial judge great deference when he makes evidentiary findings.

 

[tigerjimp]

the video surfaced long before the GM data. The trial had already begun before the OnStar data was obtained

Put a different way, did the defense (really) want the GM data after Paul’s phone was unlocked and the video was discovered?

Was it only before the video that Alex wanted the GM data because he didn’t think that Paul’s phone would be unlocked or was unaware of the video on it?

Without the video the GM data could have helped Alex. With the video it only hurt him.

 

[Clemblack]

I hear you, and I am still suspicious. Just saying that Fitsnews, who has been on top of this story from the beginning, is reporting that it was drug related, and the Murdaughs were not involved.

That is interesting.

I know the Murdaughs and their associates HATE Fitsnews with a burning passion. They pay close attention to Fitsnews reporting. Maybe Fits intentionally made an inaccurate report in an effort to disarm the Murdaughs, in a way.

Of course, the killing could indeed have been related to drugs. But I don't buy it. I hope we find out.

 

[Larry_Williams]

Thats kinda what we are talking about. Why even risk it when you have him on so many other things?

The appeal feels more like continuing the grift than any chance of getting out of jail. But its a lifeline that didn't need to be thrown by the court/prosecutor.

I was responding to the assertion that the appeal remains a legit legal question. I don't think it is.

 

[poates6]

I was responding to the assertion that the appeal remains a legit legal question. I don't think it is.

The appeal is absolutely a legit legal question. I doubt they win it, but it’s definitely a legit legal question. It’s why they planted the seed over and over again during the trial.

 

[tigerjimp]

They did try to say that it was not possible in the timeframe laid out but did not do a good job of it. They tried to say no way he could have gotten cleaned up, changed, and gotten rid of everything that fast. They kept trying to say "you think he drove the golf cart naked?"

They did a horrible job but tried

The 283 steps with no explanation was the problem.

 

[MBTiger23]

It's a legitimate legal question if he doesn't incriminate himself.

He incriminated himself.

You can't plead the fifth once on the stand. He elected to get on the stand which waives his right to plead the fifth if I'm not mistaken.

 

[nmerritt11]

Put a different way, did the defense (really) want the GM data after Paul’s phone was unlocked and the video was discovered?

Was it only before the video that Alex wanted the GM data because he didn’t think that Paul’s phone would be unlocked or was unaware of the video on it?

Without the video the GM data could have helped Alex. With the video it only hurt him.

I think when the obtained it, both the prosecution and the defense were on record wanting it into evidence. I could have heard that incorrectly but my memory things that the coverage said both wanted it entered once obtained

 

[Larry_Williams]

The appeal is absolutely a legit legal question. I doubt they win it, but it’s definitely a legit legal question. It’s why they planted the seed over and over again during the trial.

Once again: He admitted to the financial crimes. That appeal is doomed.

 

[tigerjimp]

Let's talk about AM's "suicide" attempt.

I have a feeling AM knew the heat was on. He needed to get the police from focusing on him to focusing on another suspect. So he calls Cousin Eddie under the pretense of either talking about "business" or making a buy. They pick a remote road. He knows Eddie carries a gun because of the business he's in. AM is a big guy. He thinks he can take Eddie is a struggle. He hopes to kill Eddie, maybe with a tire iron. After he kills Eddie and then he can tell police: "Eddie called me and said he had information about the murders. When I got here he was acting crazy. He told me he killed Maggie and Paul. However he really wanted to kill me: the Murdaugh that got away. He claimed I owed him money and that I would pay. He pulled his gun. We struggled and I killed him in self defense."

AM sets this up but it goes bad. Eddie pulls his gun in self defense and grazes AM. Eddie gets out of there because he has drugs in his car and doesn't want police attention. AM calls 911. His brothers evidentially get him to rehab because it insolates him from the police at some level. They use the drug addiction and suicide attempt as an excuse to hide the larger plan.

Eddie doesn't talk because he knows AM controls the local cops and he doesn't need police attention to his business.

Plausible?

I believe some version of this is what happened. How would Eddie miss in a willing suicide? Makes no sense. I believe it is just another great example of how devious AM is.

 

[jeffcoat]

I think that's because the admittance of the financial crimes as motive is the only prayer they have on appeal. And even that seems flimsy (from my layman's brain).

I don't know how appeals work, but if they listen to the jurors, the financial crimes & motive were not important. The video cooked his goose.

 

[Chriso124tiger]

The 283 steps with no explanation was the problem.

I never understood why the defense didn't pick that apart more. First of all, I walk all day as part of my job, and 283 steps is really not a whole lot of steps in the grand scheme of things. Also, a phone is not very accurate in calculation of steps imo.

 

[tigeratcu]

Please explain why they would knowingly allowing him to steal from clients and themselves.

I can't explain much of anything that has happened in Hampton County. What I do know is that multiple partners testified that the clients were firm clients and that all funds went through the firm. While there may not be any criminal issues, there certainly are issues with the violation of the rules of conduct for lawyers that require the firm to oversee their fees and trust accounts.

 

[purple2]

Seriously, the fees aren’t a receivable to the firm until Alex tells them it’s a receivable to the firm. And client payouts aren’t payouts until Alex tells them it belongs in the trust account.

A personal injury law firm isn’t like a normal business where you send someone an invoice and then the AR clerk is waiting for payment. Personal injury law firms aren’t paid until the case is closed and the lawyer notifies the firm or sends the CFO the disbursement sheet. Unless you have the CFO tracking every case every lawyer has to ensure payment is received, which they obviously didn’t do (and I imagine most personal injury law firms don’t do).

The client payouts were sent to a fake company with a very similar name to the real company. The only way that would be found out is if the CFO talked to the real company or reviewed the cancelled checks or a client complained.

the cfo screwed up if this happened over years. it is their job

 

[PawsFan_]

I never understood why the defense didn't pick that apart more. First of all, I walk all day as part of my job, and 283 steps is really not a whole lot of steps in the grand scheme of things. Also, a phone is not very accurate in calculation of steps imo.

Concur that a phone isn't 100% accurate on steps, but it's pretty close.

283 steps is a little more than a tenth of a mile. It's also the distance from the kennels to the house. Maggie and Paul's step counters when they went to the kennel were ~300.

 

[tigerjimp]

I never understood why the defense didn't pick that apart more. First of all, I walk all day as part of my job, and 283 steps is really not a whole lot of steps in the grand scheme of things. Also, a phone is not very accurate in calculation of steps imo.

I think it was not being able to answer what he was doing during the 283 steps in a few minutes timeframe when he clearly remembered what he was doing at other times near the same time. But I agree, I would have simply said that I was pacing while making phone calls. Why he didn’t say something like that is a mystery to me. He couldn’t have been surprised by the question. He had the data.

In reality he was probably cleaning up and doing something with the guns.

 

[nmerritt11]

Once again: He admitted to the financial crimes. That appeal is doomed.

with as efficient as Judge Newman ran that trial and as professional as he was, how he maintained order, and just the overall amazing job he did with everything I see no reason how it could be appealed.

He listed to both sides on the financial pieces and he felt it was relevant because of motive due to the boat case. He made damn sure that it was not strictly to create a public opinion on Alex' character and that it was directed towards the motive. He was fair and clear on that.

That dude was one impressive SOB! And with him having a son that recently passed away I can only imagine the emotions he was probably feeling

Concur that a phone isn't 100% accurate on steps, but it's pretty close.

283 steps is a little more than a tenth of a mile. It's also the distance from the kennels to the house. Maggie and Paul's step counters when they went to the kennel were ~300.

And it could have been more if he put the phone down, walked around, and then picked it back up. And he likely put it in his car

 

[Larry_Williams]

with as efficient as Judge Newman ran that trial and as professional as he was, how he maintained order, and just the overall amazing job he did with everything I see no reason how it could be appealed.

He listed to both sides on the financial pieces and he felt it was relevant because of motive due to the boat case. He made damn sure that it was not strictly to create a public opinion on Alex' character and that it was directed towards the motive. He was fair and clear on that.

That dude was one impressive SOB! And with him having a son that recently passed away I can only imagine the emotions he was probably feeling

100 percent

 

[padtigers]

100 percent

I had a pretty cool experience in a courtroom this week. I was summoned for jury duty on Monday in Lexington County. I was one of the 13 lucky souls selected. During the jury selection the judge comes out and her name is Judge Newman from Richland County. I recalled that Judge Clifton Newman had a daughter that was also a judge. Well sure enough....... That was her. Super cool and energetic lady. Mathematics degree from UofSC. Law degree from Howard. MENSA member. She dismissed the case but she actually came into the Jury Room and carefully explained what all happened and why she dismissed the case. She took questions and stood there and talked with us for a good 15-20 mins. I will say that the apple did not fall far from the tree.

 

[NCTiger1990]

I'll never understand why these people commit crimes with their phone in tow. If he planned to do the crime, why not leave your phone at the house?
Same can be said for Kohberger. Leave the phone at home and you have somewhat of an alibi.

 

[acmnni1]

I believe some version of this is what happened. How would Eddie miss in a willing suicide? Makes no sense. I believe it is just another great example of how devious AM is.

I've said this many times before. This was not a botched "suicide" attempt. If he wanted to be dead, he wouldn't have called 911 after Eddie "missed" him. Why call 911 for medical assistance if you "wanted to be gone". You would finish it yourself. That story is 100% bs. 100%. This guy would never kill himself. Too much of a narcissist and he always thought he would never get caught.

 

[gooddogjudge]

I'll never understand why these people commit crimes with their phone in tow. If he planned to do the crime, why not leave your phone at the house?
Same can be said for Kohberger. Leave the phone at home and you have somewhat of an alibi.

He left his phone at the house!!

 

[Dmk]

That is interesting.

I know the Murdaughs and their associates HATE Fitsnews with a burning passion. They pay close attention to Fitsnews reporting. Maybe Fits intentionally made an inaccurate report in an effort to disarm the Murdaughs, in a way.

Of course, the killing could indeed have been related to drugs. But I don't buy it. I hope we find out.

I’ve read a lot of your posts on here the past couple weeks and you have been spot on… in what way do you know the Murdaugh’s? If you don’t want to say then that’s definitely understandable too.

 

[Ole Tom]

Once again: He admitted to the financial crimes. That appeal is doomed.

I think an appeal is another payday for Harpootlian and nothing more. If AM wants an appeal, I would think he would want a different and better attorney.

 

[tigerridge]

The Murdaughs were involved somehow, and we can tell this because:

1. He was murdered in Hampton County
2. There was almost no investigation and it was ruled a hit and run


This is a case that was obviously swept under the rug. If no Murdaugh is implicated, it gets investigated. Easy to connect those dots.

I watched a podcast on Youtube that specifically HP and SLED were dumbfounded because the MUSC pathologist ruled the murder as hit and run... She claimed that Smith was struck by a side mirror of a truck which left head trauma but no major dragging or tire injuries...

The investigators were disgusted with her findings because it was clear to them that he had been hit with a board or baseball bat multiple times... Apparently her determination precluded any more real investigation...

 

[pwjacks]

Seriously, the fees aren’t a receivable to the firm until Alex tells them it’s a receivable to the firm. And client payouts aren’t payouts until Alex tells them it belongs in the trust account.

A personal injury law firm isn’t like a normal business where you send someone an invoice and then the AR clerk is waiting for payment. Personal injury law firms aren’t paid until the case is closed and the lawyer notifies the firm or sends the CFO the disbursement sheet. Unless you have the CFO tracking every case every lawyer has to ensure payment is received, which they obviously didn’t do (and I imagine most personal injury law firms don’t do).

The client payouts were sent to a fake company with a very similar name to the real company. The only way that would be found out is if the CFO talked to the real company or reviewed the cancelled checks or a client complained.

And contingency fees are going into a trust account where they can sit for 30 days to much much longer. It all depends on liens on the award, probate matters, etc. Firms are required to reconcile their trust accounts but it is a bear to say the least. Partners would almost never catch distributions to a fake account if the partner in charge of those disbursements is committing fraud.

 

[Will4Clemson]

You must understand that Murdaughs have operated above the law for decades. When they "ask" if they can do something, they're actually telling the law that they're going to do it. They've run law enforcement, and most especially DNR, in the lowcountry forever.

Their persona is aww shucks, back-slapping, smiles and dove hunts. But it is all calculated and done with purpose. Every member of the family, and many of their close associates, have benefited from their corruption. It is now being exposed.

The problem is the LEO's that allowed them to do this are still employed as LEO's. They violated public trust and should have their badges removed and retired from public service. South Carolina deserves better and should demand better.

Follow the phone calls and texts from JMM right after the wreck. He is in constant contact with his best bud who was one of the highest ranking DNR officers, “asking” to take the boat.

The guy leading the investigation for DNR just so happened to be married to a gal who used to work at the law firm and grew up best friends with one of the partner’s kids.

Standard operating procedure for the Murdaugh’s, so I wouldn’t let Randy or JMM off the hook at all…

All of this ^^^^

Lots of folks seem content ITT that justice was served and corruption overcome. Nope not even close and this is what the folks like Murdaugh's want you to think.

JMM best friend who was with DNR at the time of the boat crash is now working at SLED. Evidentially SLED cares little about his alleged involvement.

Judge Mullen who was instrumental (if what has been reported as true) in facilitating the theft from the Satterfield settlement is still on the bench today. There are also allegations that she has abused her power in other instances.

The Laffitte family still is running PSB, and the new CEO isnt a Laffitte but he's married to one who sits on the BOD.

Duffie Stone, it only took him about 3 months to decide there may be the slightest conflict of interest, and honestly without public outcry I have a hard time believing he would have recused himself from this case. Colleton figured it out within a few hours and turned over the investigation, kudos to them.

And lets not leave SLED out of this, and Chief Keel, poor guy just caught it on the chin during this trial. Oh and he was also fined February 28th of this year because his agency lied to two seperate judges, committed discovery abuses in a case in Dorchester County. But yeah SLED is a hero in this case. Im not condemning every officer that works for that agency but there's cancer there that needs to be excised. All this over some hemp.

S.L.E.D Fined

This trial is a good start but there is a long way to go.

 

[NCTiger1990]

Sadly, I admit that I found the state database and ran the search after conviction. I had a few acquaintances over the years that chose the wrong path and I found them too. Once you're a ward of the state (aka prisoner), the public can check your records in a way that a college student's parents cannot search their kids academic records (even if we're paying that college tuition).

I'm curious who, if anyone, will fund AM's canteen account over the rest of his life.

Doesn't he have a $2 million retirement account that's untouchable? I would think he could fund it himself.

 

[TopGun01]

I watched a podcast on Youtube that specifically HP and SLED were dumbfounded because the MUSC pathologist ruled the murder as hit and run... She claimed that Smith was struck by a side mirror of a truck which left head trauma but no major dragging or tire injuries...

The investigators were disgusted with her findings because it was clear to them that he had been hit with a board or baseball bat multiple times... Apparently her determination precluded any more real investigation...

View embedded media

There's at least one person who knew exactly how Smith's death came about, and that's Paul. Now Paul is dead. Locals believe Buster knew what was up. Maybe he didn't agree with the hotheaded Paw Paw's plan. But he hated more what Hampton County folks would soon learn had Smith lived.

 

[PawJourney]

I think it was not being able to answer what he was doing during the 283 steps in a few minutes timeframe when he clearly remembered what he was doing at other times near the same time. But I agree, I would have simply said that I was pacing while making phone calls. Why he didn’t say something like that is a mystery to me. He couldn’t have been surprised by the question. He had the data.

In reality he was probably cleaning up and doing something with the guns.

He should have said Jazzercise because

Doesn't he have a $2 million retirement account that's untouchable? I would think he could fund it himself.

When he reaches retirement age...or is prison considered retirement 🤔?

 

[Clemblack]

I watched a podcast on Youtube that specifically HP and SLED were dumbfounded because the MUSC pathologist ruled the murder as hit and run... She claimed that Smith was struck by a side mirror of a truck which left head trauma but no major dragging or tire injuries...

The investigators were disgusted with her findings because it was clear to them that he had been hit with a board or baseball bat multiple times... Apparently her determination precluded any more real investigation...

View embedded media

Exactly.

I believe she was told what to report by Randolph Murdaugh, either directly or indirectly.

 

[Clemblack]

I’ve read a lot of your posts on here the past couple weeks and you have been spot on… in what way do you know the Murdaugh’s? If you don’t want to say then that’s definitely understandable too.

There are several people involved in all this mess whom I know extremely well, especially with regard to the boat case.

I do not know any member of the Murdaugh family particularly well, though I do know them. And I know people in the law firm.

 

[Clemblack]

There's at least one person who knew exactly how Smith's death came about, and that's Paul. Now Paul is dead. Locals believe Buster knew what was up. Maybe he didn't agree with the hotheaded Paw Paw's plan. But he hated more what Hampton County folks would soon learn had Smith lived.

It seems to me that most locals around Buster and Paul's age believe Buster did it or was at least directly involved. I have heard them discuss it matter-of-factly.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I suspect Alex may have been involved in Smith's death. That makes sense to me, especially after watching the murder trial. If Alex killed Smith, the Buster rumors still make sense. Alex would've been smart to start the rumor himself so that 1) he himself is not implicated, and 2) LE will sweep it under the rug.

We know now that Alex is willing to kill in order to maintain his status. Were Maggie and Paul his first?

 

[gooddogjudge]

It seems to me that most locals around Buster and Paul's age believe Buster did it or was at least directly involved. I have heard them discuss it matter-of-factly.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I suspect Alex may have been involved in Smith's death. That makes sense to me, especially after watching the murder trial. If Alex killed Smith, the Buster rumors still make sense. Alex would've been smart to start the rumor himself so that 1) he himself is not implicated, and 2) LE will sweep it under the rug.

We know now that Alex is willing to kill in order to maintain his status. Were Maggie and Paul his first?

What's your age @Clemblack?

 

[CLEMSON96JDH]

Doesn't he have a $2 million retirement account that's untouchable? I would think he could fund it himself.

It was liquidated

 

[castlesl]

I'm curious what they will appeal. I'm not an attorney (nor a juror) but some of the stuff that was allowed in didn't prove anything other than Alex was an a$$hole. The financial crimes weren't really about motive it was to get to character to overcome the feeling of "no dad could kill his own family like that." In a circumstantial case like this, I could see that being a huge issue for appeal.

But, Alex did himself in with his testimony and the video. He proved himself as an a$$hole and the video proved he was there. They didn't need the financial info.

Its like complaining about a call a ref made at the end of a game, when you lost by 30.

I think that is the point. You are not allowed to enter evidence that isn’t relevant to the case that may disparage the defendant. That would potentially be grounds for a retrial. I don’t think it happens because I think it was a factor in the killings. It was really a two for one deal.