If Ukraine takes exception to their civilian plane being shot down, all the sudden the Russians have a much better reason to side with Iran.
I have a hard time believing anything is going to come of the plane being shot down.
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If Ukraine takes exception to their civilian plane being shot down, all the sudden the Russians have a much better reason to side with Iran.
Care to explain how Israel did this?
I have a hard time believing anything is going to come of the plane being shot down.
Buttigieg is a detestable human being in addition to being a moron. Unbelievable.
Likely a poorly trained SA-15 SAM Regiment. Their radar system is adequate to discern the RCS of a slow-moving passenger airliner flying westerly from Tehran, from a threat, just like the Buk was in Ukraine years ago.
But Iran will get away with it.
Somebody will blame it on Trump for killing the guy which got them on edge which caused them to be trigger happy and accidentally blast an airliner. Go figure.
We accidentally shot down an Iranian passenger jet in 1988 due to similar tensions leading to our ship feeling threatened.
Unless we have a Carter or Obama type President again, this country ain't backing up like we did 4 years ago and give Iran a Get Out of Jail Free Pass. That was treason. Period.This is correct. Iran does commerce and has substantial relationships with Russia and China. If anything major ever happened to Iran, we may hear from these countries.
You have to admit that tweet was pretty bad. Not that most people running in a primary wouldn’t have done it.Tell us more...
Tell us more...
You have to admit that tweet was pretty bad. Not that most people running in a primary wouldn’t have done it.
There's a lot more here than meets the eye. A lot more. Per my contacts, this flips Iran from working with the Deep State (John Kerry) to working with the Patriots (Trump). The attack on the American Embassy was a CIA Deep State Black Ops play to detract from the coming Declass. Let that sink in. WWG1WGA..
Are China and Russia really allied with Iran in any meaningful way? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt they've agreed to help defend Iran.
It’s an era when saying the worst about your opponents gets you more attention. Trump, especially, does this all the time. But it happens a lot in primaries because candidates are trying to differentiate themselves.Really you think that "most" would have done it? Pretty cynical and/or fatalistic view for the future of our Republic. Not saying what you think is wrong... but am horrified if that is true.
Right. All 3 are just itching for a protracted shooting war against a coalition of the west’s democracies among which are the greatest military force in human history and the pillars of their economies. And, lets define joint naval exercises. Because 2 of those 3 have total, antiquated garbage for naval assets. What they do have would be rendered virtually useless. Sooo, the way that should read is that Iran and Russia watched on while China conducted naval exercises.
@Buzzards Roost I agree with you about the moronic, partisan logic chain re: Trump, but there is only a tenuous similarity with the USS Vincennes shootdown of Iran Air 655 in July of 1988. Way different context.
1987 - Iran v. Iraq still going on. May .. USS Stark hit with a Exocet killing 37 injuring 21 and disabling the vessel. Much commentary and second-guessing of the Captain of that ship for not being more aggressive in defending his vessel. USN ships continue operation EARNEST WILL re: flagging and escorting tankers.
1988- EARNEST WILL continues. 14 April USS Samuel B Roberts strikes an Iranian Mine. 18 April US Executes op PRAYING MANTIS destroying some Iranian offshore platforms and sinking damn near the entire Iranian Navy. 3 July - USS Vincennes, while passing thru the straight of hormuz was engaged / engaging Iranian gunboats with one of her helicopters reportedly engaged with small arms fire.
IA 655 was mis-Identified by the USS Vincennes as a potential Iranian F14. Vincennes attempted 10 times to contact IA 655. No success. It was squawking as a commercial flight but was reportedly thought to be on a descending profile (not confirmed by examination of the computer data) and approaching attack range.. and was shot down.
Mistakes were made... but surely the crew and ultimately the Captain of the Vincennes was influenced by preceding events.
An civ aircraft taking off from Tehran... outbound... talking to Iranian ATC, with no (None, nada) inbound anything.... Not the same thing.
Not. Even. Close.
That’s my perception, as wellGuys, this is my day job.
- Soleimani gone really hurts them. Bad dude involved in Syria, Iraq and Yemen. This is akin to knocking Joe Burrow out of Monday's game.
- Their attack on us was symbolic only. It's shows their people they responded.
- Things are already returning to normal. But crazy and unpredictable is normal in CENTCOM.
- The plane didn't crash.
Russia and Iran is a marriage of convenience only. They are united to help Asad and counter our influence in the region. China cares about one person, China.
It’s an era when saying the worst about your opponents gets you more attention. Trump, especially, does this all the time. But it happens a lot in primaries because candidates are trying to differentiate themselves.
@Buzzards Roost I agree with you about the moronic, partisan logic chain re: Trump, but there is only a tenuous similarity with the USS Vincennes shootdown of Iran Air 655 in July of 1988. Way different context.
1987 - Iran v. Iraq still going on. May .. USS Stark hit with a Exocet killing 37 injuring 21 and disabling the vessel. Much commentary and second-guessing of the Captain of that ship for not being more aggressive in defending his vessel. USN ships continue operation EARNEST WILL re: flagging and escorting tankers.
1988- EARNEST WILL continues. 14 April USS Samuel B Roberts strikes an Iranian Mine. 18 April US Executes op PRAYING MANTIS destroying some Iranian offshore platforms and sinking damn near the entire Iranian Navy. 3 July - USS Vincennes, while passing thru the straight of hormuz was engaged / engaging Iranian gunboats with one of her helicopters reportedly engaged with small arms fire.
IA 655 was mis-Identified by the USS Vincennes as a potential Iranian F14. Vincennes attempted 10 times to contact IA 655. No success. It was squawking as a commercial flight but was reportedly thought to be on a descending profile (not confirmed by examination of the computer data) and approaching attack range.. and was shot down.
Mistakes were made... but surely the crew and ultimately the Captain of the Vincennes was influenced by preceding events.
An civ aircraft taking off from Tehran... outbound... talking to Iranian ATC, with no (None, nada) inbound anything.... Not the same thing.
Not. Even. Close.
So... what does 16 mean, biblically speaking?6+5+5=17
In the Bible the number 17 symbolizes "overcoming the enemy" and "complete victory."
While Iran's conventional Navy is little more than a Coast Guard, they don't need a big navy. None of the GCC countries have one. Their asymmetric force though is capable and can be a pain in the ass.
Don't sleep on Ivan. He plays the game very well. While much of his gear is old, he is modernizing rapidly. I'll remind you our gear is old too.
China's Navy is getting scary strong. However they tend to stick to their own back yard. They lack bases and friends around the world to support the logistics for a global maritime force.
Sadly, despite Trump's bombast, he's done little to recapitalize our forces. He's all talk on that front.
Fly Navy!
One has to wonder why Iran didn't ground all civilian traffic in the wake of their attack.
I don’t think any of that would matter to Trump. While I don’t like any politician doing this kind of thing, it’s just kind of hard to care anymore.True, but do you really think there are equivalencies here? Really?
Trump's counterattacks are personal. Add any adjectives that you want... off color, un-presidential, etc etc. but personal. And, tied to some personal action, position, trait, whatever. This is different.
We have somone on the national stage (why is he, Democrats?) tweeting in the middle of a us foreign policy / national security incident. Not after the fact... but in the middle of it.
But he does expose his leanings, bias and intellect. Not that it matters to is supporters.
He was not part of the security brief today. So has any dem that was briefed come out and disagree with the action? I mean there was the sham vote that means nothing today. But other than that what is being said?It's headed that way.
The only similarity is that military personnel likely mistook an airliner for a combatant. No doubt one is more understandable than the other. But both were related to tensions in the area.@Buzzards Roost I agree with you about the moronic, partisan logic chain re: Trump, but there is only a tenuous similarity with the USS Vincennes shootdown of Iran Air 655 in July of 1988. Way different context.
1987 - Iran v. Iraq still going on. May .. USS Stark hit with a Exocet killing 37 injuring 21 and disabling the vessel. Much commentary and second-guessing of the Captain of that ship for not being more aggressive in defending his vessel. USN ships continue operation EARNEST WILL re: flagging and escorting tankers.
1988- EARNEST WILL continues. 14 April USS Samuel B Roberts strikes an Iranian Mine. 18 April US Executes op PRAYING MANTIS destroying some Iranian offshore platforms and sinking damn near the entire Iranian Navy. 3 July - USS Vincennes, while passing thru the straight of hormuz was engaged / engaging Iranian gunboats with one of her helicopters reportedly engaged with small arms fire.
IA 655 was mis-Identified by the USS Vincennes as a potential Iranian F14. Vincennes attempted 10 times to contact IA 655. No success. It was squawking as a commercial flight but was reportedly thought to be on a descending profile (not confirmed by examination of the computer data) and approaching attack range.. and was shot down.
Mistakes were made... but surely the crew and ultimately the Captain of the Vincennes was influenced by preceding events.
An civ aircraft taking off from Tehran... outbound... talking to Iranian ATC, with no (None, nada) inbound anything.... Not the same thing.
Not. Even. Close.
I don’t think any of that would matter to Trump. While I don’t like any politician doing this kind of thing, it’s just kind of hard to care anymore.
There's a lot more here than meets the eye. A lot more. Per my contacts, this flips Iran from working with the Deep State (John Kerry) to working with the Patriots (Trump). The attack on the American Embassy was a CIA Deep State Black Ops play to detract from the coming Declass. Let that sink in. WWG1WGA..
The only similarity is that military personnel likely mistook an airliner for a combatant. No doubt one is more understandable than the other. But both were related to tensions in the area.
Mayor Pete will claim all this and that about national security and then tout his qualification of having spent a few years in the Navy as justification for his thoughts.
It is complicated.I don't know dick about anything, but it seems like there's way too much money coming in to China from the US for them to side with Iran. And prob the same with Russia.
Ok, but it’s kind of hard to have much confidence in our citizens at the moment. Seems like people prefer idiocy.I can't opine on the "rightness" of what you think. However... You have to care! The reliance on an informed (not brainwashed) electorate are more critical than any time in our history. A opposition political candidate injecting himself int an ongoing national security incident is bullshit. Made even more bullshit because butt-dude is an idiot. IMHO, of course.
That guy is allowed to vote.Yes! Jackpot!
Ok, but it’s kind of hard to have much confidence in our citizens at the moment. Seems like people prefer idiocy.
While Iran's conventional Navy is little more than a Coast Guard, they don't need a big navy. None of the GCC countries have one. Their asymmetric force though is capable and can be a pain in the ass.
Don't sleep on Ivan. He plays the game very well. While much of his gear is old, he is modernizing rapidly. I'll remind you our gear is old too.
China's Navy is getting scary strong. However they tend to stick to their own back yard. They lack bases and friends around the world to support the logistics for a global maritime force.
Sadly, despite Trump's bombast, he's done little to recapitalize our forces. He's all talk on that front.
Fly Navy!
It’s not just that. I mean, the feeling right now is completely anti-whatever seems institutional. Almost like the crazier/more uncouth you act, the better.I agree 100%. We are way past the stupidity that our founding fathers could have imagined. Maybe if we let a few more illegals into this country it would be better
It’s not just that. I mean, the feeling right now is completely anti-whatever seems institutional. Almost like the crazier/more uncouth you act, the better.
So... what does 16 mean, biblically speaking?