Photo ID

[UncleGene]

YES!

I was told i had already voted back in 2004 when I was in Clemson.... I told them to "show me my ballot then!" They declined. I flipped the F*$^ out. Wrote a letter to the state and NOT A DAMN THING HAPPENED!

Have your F*$&ing ID please.

 

[Orangeoveralls]

Voter ID is a solution in search of a problem. Someone please provide some factual evidence of rampant voter fraud; because, in fact, these no voter fraud problem. Such a bull$hit issue manufactured by the far right to suppress the vote of 21 million Americans who would be affected.

Its hilarious to me that these same proponents of these aggressive attempts to suppress a constitution right are the same folks who unconditionally defend the constitution when it comes to gun rights.

the right to vote is the most fundamental right to the existence of our democracy. We should not be making this right harder to exercise. Requiring folks to pay for an ID is tantamount to a poll tax. Even if you do not charge for the ID, it still costs the person to produce other documents for the the ID and costs them to go get this stuff... a poll tax.

America is better than a poll tax.

The fact is that most on this board have no idea how these 21 million Americans live and cannot relate to their plight. It is unfathomable to most upper middle class folks how life could be difficult enough that someone can't get down the DMV and get an ID.

 

[91 Tiger]

Voter ID is a solution in search of a problem. Someone please provide some factual evidence of rampant voter fraud; because, in fact, these no voter fraud problem. Such a bull$hit issue manufactured by the far right to suppress the vote of 21 million Americans who would be affected.

Its hilarious to me that these same proponents of these aggressive attempts to suppress a constitution right are the same folks who unconditionally defend the constitution when it comes to gun rights.

the right to vote is the most fundamental right to the existence of our democracy. We should not be making this right harder to exercise. Requiring folks to pay for an ID is tantamount to a poll tax. Even if you do not charge for the ID, it still costs the person to produce other documents for the the ID and costs them to go get this stuff... a poll tax.

America is better than a poll tax.

The fact is that most on this board have no idea how these 21 million Americans live and cannot relate to their plight. It is unfathomable to most upper middle class folks how life could be difficult enough that someone can't get down the DMV and get an ID.

This is not meant to be a disrespectful question, but how do they get to the polling stations to cast their votes? Having a voter ID makes sense but again I've not walked in their shoes.

 

[orangelvis]

ACORN is against voter ID.

 

[iceheart08]

ACORN is against voter ID.

ACORN doesnt exist anymore...

 

[91 Tiger]

ACORN doesnt exist anymore...

Why not?

 

[orangelvis]

ACORN doesnt exist anymore...

Whatever Acorn is calling itself these days, is against voter ID.
Seriously though, we could simply make voting fraud an act of Treason, punishable by firing squad...that would end it.

 

[Orangeoveralls]

This is not meant to be a disrespectful question, but how do they get to the polling stations to cast their votes? Having a voter ID makes sense but again I've not walked in their shoes.

No offense taken. Voting polls are generally located closer to the folks voting in them than a DMV office. Also, just because a person has had to figure out how to get to a poll should not be the basis of then saying you need to figure out how to get to the DMV first.

That logic is like saying: hey, if you could afford to by a car, why don't you buy two cars then?

 

[scotchtiger]

Requiring folks to pay for an ID is tantamount to a poll tax. Even if you do not charge for the ID, it still costs the person to produce other documents for the the ID and costs them to go get this stuff... a poll tax.

What am I missing?

• We already addressed the ID cost issue by offering them for free to those with money issues
• It doesn't cost anything to present your free SS card
• It doesn't cost anything to present your free birth certificate

Hey, lookee at this from the SC DMV:

Our South Carolina ID card is valid for 5 years from the issue date and will cost: $5 if you're 5 to 16 years old. No fee if you're 17 years old or older. You will pay the same fee whether you are applying for, renewing, or replacing your SC ID card.

Wow! If you are of voting age, you get a free ID! So glad that $5 has been removed as a barrier to exercising your right to vote.

Help me understand the financial burden of getting a state issued ID. I'm really struggling to see it.

The only potential cost is transportation to and from the DMV. SC offered free transportation for this purpose. I'm sure other states would do the same. You have to transport yourself to and from the polls though, so that is no different.

http://patch.com/south-carolina/columbia-sc/dmv-to-offer-rides-to-voters-who-dont-have-id

It is literally 100% free, absolutely zero cost, to get a state issued ID in the state of SC. There is no poll tax, unless your consider a modicum of effort a "tax."

 

[wta21080]

In most states the only gov't issued photo ID is a drivers license so if you don't drive you can't vote. That ain't right.

Not true. You can get a photo ID in every state. It's actually against the law to not have an ID in the United States, but it's not inforced.

 

[UncleGene]

I was defrauded.... Was it rampant.? Nope... Did it happen. YES! Have your FREE STATE ISSUED ID PLEASE!

 

[clemcol57]

In most states the only gov't issued photo ID is a drivers license so if you don't drive you can't vote. That ain't right.

Those that cry discrimination always seem to come up with picture IDs to get welfare, SS, food stamps, credit, doctors, prescription drugs, and many more. The only reason for not having a picture ID to vote is to facilitate voter fraud.

 

[gogetem]

Voter ID is a solution in search of a problem. Someone please provide some factual evidence of rampant voter fraud; because, in fact, these no voter fraud problem. Such a bull$hit issue manufactured by the far right to suppress the vote of 21 million Americans who would be affected.

Its hilarious to me that these same proponents of these aggressive attempts to suppress a constitution right are the same folks who unconditionally defend the constitution when it comes to gun rights.

the right to vote is the most fundamental right to the existence of our democracy. We should not be making this right harder to exercise. Requiring folks to pay for an ID is tantamount to a poll tax. Even if you do not charge for the ID, it still costs the person to produce other documents for the the ID and costs them to go get this stuff... a poll tax.

America is better than a poll tax.

The fact is that most on this board have no idea how these 21 million Americans live and cannot relate to their plight. It is unfathomable to most upper middle class folks how life could be difficult enough that someone can't get down the DMV and get an ID.

And it's hilarious to me how some feel this is an attempt to suppress a constitutional right. If the requirement to show an ID applies to everyone how is that discriminatory, or a suppression?

I don't see anything wrong with having to show an ID to vote. As for the "plight" of those who can't get down to the DMV well I say this: it's not like elections are something that happen spur of the moment. You've got 4 years 'twixt elections to figure out a way to get an ID.

 

[toolucky52384]

And it's hilarious to me how some feel this is an attempt to suppress a constitutional right. If the requirement to show an ID applies to everyone how is that discriminatory, or a suppression?

I don't see anything wrong with having to show an ID to vote. As for the "plight" of those who can't get down to the DMV well I say this: it's not like elections are something that happen spur of the moment. You've got 4 years 'twixt elections to figure out a way to get an ID.

because those who don't have an ID already are a predictable demographic. there is no requirement to have a government issued photo ID currently.

if there was a proposal to issue a national photo ID the proponents of photo ID laws would go apeshit about government over-reach.

you could make a law that said an orange polo shirt was required to vote in the state of south carolina... this would apply to everyone, but it would primarily inconvenience non clemson fans.

 

[steele-tiger]

I can at least respect Glenn Grothman for his honestly. Voter ID are politics at its finest.

At least just be honest and say I like them because it helps my team. Few in this thread would be for automatically enrolling people to vote at age 18 because it doesn't help their team. This issue is no different.

 

[steele-tiger]

Big fan of David Lewis (R-NC) just tells it like it is instead of trying to hide behind some made up political reason:

“I think electing Republicans is better than electing Democrats,” he said. “So I drew this map (2016 NC Congressional Map) in a way to help foster what I think is better for the country.”

The new map is 10 safe R districts and 3 safe D districts. Hate this approach because it leads to fringe candidates by both parties and makes politics more divisive and nothing gets done.

Can respect politicians that are being honest even if you disagree.

 

[MillerHighLife21]

Used to say yes, but have changed my mind. Almost no evidence of voter fraud, stiff penalties already in place if caught, such a time consuming and likely low impact crime.

Photo id laws are intended to prevent the urban population from voting. Now if the US adopted sine type of universal government issued photo id I'd be in favor of the requirement, but I would be against the US using a universal ID.

Exactly how do you find evidence of voter fraud without requiring identification....?

 

[toolucky52384]

Exactly how do you find evidence of voter fraud without requiring identification....?

well, currently people have to state their name and it gets crossed off a registration list. if a second person shows up stating that same name, then you have evidence of voting fraud.

when a social security number of a dead person votes, it is voting fraud...

however... studies have shown the vast majority of these cases are mistaken identity, same name as a dead person, same name as another person.

http://www.thestate.com/latest-news/article14399465.html

Of its review of the 207 contested votes cast in 2010, the commission found:

• 106 votes were clerical errors by poll workers – mistakes like marking John Doe Sr. instead of John Doe Jr.
• 56 votes were “bad data matching” – meaning the state Department of Motor Vehicles, which raised concerns about zombie voters, was wrong in assuming the voters were dead.
• 32 votes were “voter participation errors,” meaning someone was credited as voting in an election when they did not, most likely because of a stray mark on the voter rolls that was electronically scanned to record a voter’s participation.

 

[MillerHighLife21]

well, currently people have to state their name and it gets crossed off a registration list. if a second person shows up stating that same name, then you have evidence of voting fraud.

when a social security number of a dead person votes, it is voting fraud...

however... studies have shown the vast majority of these cases are mistaken identity, same name as a dead person, same name as another person.

http://www.thestate.com/latest-news/article14399465.html

Of its review of the 207 contested votes cast in 2010, the commission found:

• 106 votes were clerical errors by poll workers – mistakes like marking John Doe Sr. instead of John Doe Jr.
• 56 votes were “bad data matching” – meaning the state Department of Motor Vehicles, which raised concerns about zombie voters, was wrong in assuming the voters were dead.
• 32 votes were “voter participation errors,” meaning someone was credited as voting in an election when they did not, most likely because of a stray mark on the voter rolls that was electronically scanned to record a voter’s participation.

Meaning that the current system would be easily abused by a few people with a list of names...

I keep hearing that closing loopholes is supposed to be a good thing....?

 

[91 Tiger]

No offense taken. Voting polls are generally located closer to the folks voting in them than a DMV office. Also, just because a person has had to figure out how to get to a poll should not be the basis of then saying you need to figure out how to get to the DMV first.

That logic is like saying: hey, if you could afford to by a car, why don't you buy two cars then?

I'm not sure I understand the purchasing of a car analogy. I just really want to know how they get to the polls to cast their votes. Maybe its a friend or organization. You would think they could help them with a free ID that lasts them maybe 10years. It could also help them get a job and move them along to being self sufficient. If they have medical limitations then they should be helped for sure and taken care of.

 

[Orangeoveralls]

What am I missing?

• We already addressed the ID cost issue by offering them for free to those with money issues
• It doesn't cost anything to present your free SS card
• It doesn't cost anything to present your free birth certificate

Hey, lookee at this from the SC DMV:

Our South Carolina ID card is valid for 5 years from the issue date and will cost: $5 if you're 5 to 16 years old. No fee if you're 17 years old or older. You will pay the same fee whether you are applying for, renewing, or replacing your SC ID card.

Wow! If you are of voting age, you get a free ID! So glad that $5 has been removed as a barrier to exercising your right to vote.

Help me understand the financial burden of getting a state issued ID. I'm really struggling to see it.

The only potential cost is transportation to and from the DMV. SC offered free transportation for this purpose. I'm sure other states would do the same. You have to transport yourself to and from the polls though, so that is no different.

http://patch.com/south-carolina/columbia-sc/dmv-to-offer-rides-to-voters-who-dont-have-id

It is literally 100% free, absolutely zero cost, to get a state issued ID in the state of SC. There is no poll tax, unless your consider a modicum of effort a "tax."

I am fiscally conservative so why should we pay for all these free services in order to fix a problem that does not exist? Based on my experience on this board, this fiscal waste of resources should piss of 95% of members.

Listen, you are carrying the banner of the far right vote suppressors honorably. But at the end of the day, this is an effort to suppress voter turnout, not effort to solve a real problem. If these laws were not effective in doing so, the far right would not invest so much effort in enacting these laws. Again, there is not credible evidence of any material voter fraud. If there was, it would need to be an epidemic before we should consider monkeying with a constitutional right.

 

[Orangeoveralls]

I'm not sure I understand the purchasing of a car analogy. I just really want to know how they get to the polls to cast their votes. Maybe its a friend or organization. You would think they could help them with a free ID that lasts them maybe 10years. It could also help them get a job and move them along to being self sufficient. If they have medical limitations then they should be helped for sure and taken care of.

Your question about transportation was since they can figure out how to get to one place, why can't they figure out how to get to two places.

 

[Orangeoveralls]

I'm not sure I understand the purchasing of a car analogy. I just really want to know how they get to the polls to cast their votes. Maybe its a friend or organization. You would think they could help them with a free ID that lasts them maybe 10years. It could also help them get a job and move them along to being self sufficient. If they have medical limitations then they should be helped for sure and taken care of.

Where I live, my voting precinct is .5 miles from my house. The DMV is about 10 miles away.

 

[toolucky52384]

Meaning that the current system would be easily abused by a few people with a list of names...

I keep hearing that closing loopholes is supposed to be a good thing....?

and yet the study found no evidence that abuse was actually taking place.

i'm 100% pro closing loopholes, but i'm also against putting undue burden on exercise of freedom. you've convinced me... i'm 100% willing to back a universal SSN/Voter Registration/gov photo ID card. we can make it so it automatically registers everyone to vote when they turn 18. you can require a new picture every 10 years. we can spend 30 billion dollars of tax money on it every 10 years. (if all materials, labor, and IT infrastructure averaged 100 dollars per person per card issuance) (does not count lost productivity), all for a problem that might not exist at any measurable level.

 

[wta21080]

Where I live, my voting precinct is .5 miles from my house. The DMV is about 10 miles away.

So what you're saying is a person cannot get 10 miles from their home in 4 years to get an ID?

 

[acwill07]

No offense taken. Voting polls are generally located closer to the folks voting in them than a DMV office. Also, just because a person has had to figure out how to get to a poll should not be the basis of then saying you need to figure out how to get to the DMV first.

That logic is like saying: hey, if you could afford to by a car, why don't you buy two cars then?

This post makes zero sense. None.

 

[Orangeoveralls]

So what you're saying is a person cannot get 10 miles from their home in 4 years to get an ID?

What I am saying is that this whole charade of voter fraud is really an attempt to suppress the constitutional right to vote of 21 million Americans.

And, equitably fixing this problems that does not exit would cost billions. Here in SC, lets spend millions of dollars on getting free voter ID's in everybody's hands while our roads are falling to pieces. We have lots of money here!!!

And from what I have learned from gun rights advocates and the far right is that requiring more regulations on a constitutional right only creates more opportunities for folks with imaginations to figure out ways to screw their opposition out their fundamental rights for their own group's gains.

I expect every gun rights advocate...errr constitutionalist, on this board to come to the defense of these 21 million Americans (most of them low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities) whose constitutional rights are being threatened for no credible reason... just like gun owners!!! Come on lets preserve the Constitution and protect some more Americans while doing so!!!

 

[Orangeoveralls]

This post makes zero sense. None.

Let me tell you what makes less sense...spending a bunch of money trying to fix a problem that does not exist.

 

[appalachiatiger]

so far only 12 out of 230 so americans dont respect the constitution.

thats great numbers!

 

[TigerThreeNine]

Exactly how are the dead in Chicago going to vote Democratic as they did the last two elections.

 

[Orange-Addict]

Expense is not the biggest problem here, the difficulty in getting non drivers license photo ID s can be quite cumbersome in some states.

Have a voter registration process, detain any one who attempts to vote on an already claimed SSN without a voter ID, prosecute to the highest

How is the process cumbersome? You just need proof of identity. You're saying you want it to be easier to register to vote with less documentation? Even "urban" people need a photo ID. It's part of living.

 

[toolucky52384]

so far only 12 out of 230 so americans dont respect the constitution.

thats great numbers!

12 of 230...

and all 3 federal appeals court judges who struck down the NC law today.

 

[toolucky52384]

How is the process cumbersome? You just need proof of identity. You're saying you want it to be easier to register to vote with less documentation? Even "urban" people need a photo ID. It's part of living.

and yet 21 million people live without it, and there is no law that requires it. you say it is a part of living, but that doesn't make it true.

i'm going to conceed, i don't know where the 21 million number came from... i even believe it to be significantly lower...

but even if it is only 2 million (less than 1% of the population), then i'm still going to say they have a right to vote.

 

[scotchtiger]

I am fiscally conservative so why should we pay for all these free services in order to fix a problem that does not exist? Based on my experience on this board, this fiscal waste of resources should piss of 95% of members.

Listen, you are carrying the banner of the far right vote suppressors honorably. But at the end of the day, this is an effort to suppress voter turnout, not effort to solve a real problem. If these laws were not effective in doing so, the far right would not invest so much effort in enacting these laws. Again, there is not credible evidence of any material voter fraud. If there was, it would need to be an epidemic before we should consider monkeying with a constitutional right.

The cost is barely noticeable. We already give away ID cards. Zero cost impact. The rides that were offered were barely utilized. See article below:

http://www.electionlawcenter.com/un...lina-use-free-ride-to-dmv-for-photo-voter-id/

22 people used it. Completely negligible cost to support.

Now that we have established that cost is not a barrier and ride difficulty really isn't either, the likely culprit is simply effort. And the people who don't want to put forth the effort to get an ID are often the ones using the programs that Democrats support, so yes, I assume that this law would have a side benefit of helping the Republican party.

 

[FLaw47]

The cost is barely noticeable. We already give away ID cards. Zero cost impact. The rides that were offered were barely utilized. See article below:

http://www.electionlawcenter.com/un...lina-use-free-ride-to-dmv-for-photo-voter-id/

22 people used it. Completely negligible cost to support.

Now that we have established that cost is not a barrier and ride difficulty really isn't either, the likely culprit is simply effort. And the people who don't want to put forth the effort to get an ID are often the ones using the programs that Democrats support, so yes, I assume that this law would have a side benefit of helping the Republican party.

Or not being able to get time off work to get an ID either through fear of termination or not being able to sacrifice the wages. Especially difficult if there is not a DMV anywhere nearby.

 

[wburress]

To the best of my knowledge, the best place to get a photo ID is the DMV. If you have to go to the DMV, you better plan for it taking the whole morning or the whole afternoon. If you're someone who struggles with transportation or not having an ID in the first place, you probably have an hourly job. I know most of you who don't see a problem with these laws think that the people who are affected by this law don't have jobs, but you'd be wrong for most of them. If you have an hourly job, you may find it difficult to get that time off to go to the DMV, even if you can get there. And you may not be able to afford the lost wages from taking the time off to get to the DMV.

In NC, to be eligible for your free ID, in addition to having to physically go to the DMV, you have to provide any two of:

• Driver license (LOL)
• Birth certificate (costs money)
• Social security card (requires photo ID to get a card! LOL!)
• North Carolina school documentation (what if you didn't go to school in NC?)
• Military ID
• Court document

This discussion also leaves out the fact that most of these voter ID laws also restrict early voting, which is mostly popular with lower socio-economic status individuals who work hourly jobs. These people tend to be minorities. The Ohio law actually expanded early voting in whiter districts and restricted it in majority-minority districts.

As with most things, it's not as simple as saying "should people have an ID, yes or no?" I'm fine with requiring an ID to vote. Make it really easy to get an ID.

The thing that these sorts of debates have really crystallized for me is the degree to which most Republicans just actively refuse to have any empathy for their fellow man. Which is hilarious because most Republicans identify as Christian, and I think empathy is a Christian value. Perhaps I'm wrong about that though. I'm sure a bunch of people are about to tell me so, but I'm going to go back to doing my salaried job that lets me have time off to go to the DMV.

 

[toolucky52384]

Or not being able to get time off work to get an ID either through fear of termination or not being able to sacrifice the wages. Especially difficult if there is not a DMV anywhere nearby.

it all seems to boil down to 1 thing... how much effort does it need to be for it to be a poll tax? i don't know the answer to that.

i'm going to confidently throw out there that i don't think 5 hours effort is a poll tax.

i'm going to also throw out that i think 20 working hours or more effort is a poll tax. (or any 20 lost wage hours)

(my numbers, feel free do disagree)

I dont think there is any magic number people will agree on.

 

[appalachiatiger]

To the best of my knowledge, the best place to get a photo ID is the DMV. If you have to go to the DMV, you better plan for it taking the whole morning or the whole afternoon. If you're someone who struggles with transportation or not having an ID in the first place, you probably have an hourly job. I know most of you who don't see a problem with these laws think that the people who are affected by this law don't have jobs, but you'd be wrong for most of them. If you have an hourly job, you may find it difficult to get that time off to go to the DMV, even if you can get there. And you may not be able to afford the lost wages from taking the time off to get to the DMV.

In NC, to be eligible for your free ID, in addition to having to physically go to the DMV, you have to provide any two of:

• Driver license (LOL)
• Birth certificate (costs money)
• Social security card (requires photo ID to get a card! LOL!)
• North Carolina school documentation (what if you didn't go to school in NC?)
• Military ID
• Court document

This discussion also leaves out the fact that most of these voter ID laws also restrict early voting, which is mostly popular with lower socio-economic status individuals who work hourly jobs. These people tend to be minorities. The Ohio law actually expanded early voting in whiter districts and restricted it in majority-minority districts.

As with most things, it's not as simple as saying "should people have an ID, yes or no?" I'm fine with requiring an ID to vote. Make it really easy to get an ID.

The thing that these sorts of debates have really crystallized for me is the degree to which most Republicans just actively refuse to have any empathy for their fellow man. Which is hilarious because most Republicans identify as Christian, and I think empathy is a Christian value. Perhaps I'm wrong about that though. I'm sure a bunch of
people are about to tell me so, but I'm going to go back to doing my salaried job that lets me have time off to go to the DMV.

cry me a river! lol

 

[Orangeoveralls]

The cost is barely noticeable. We already give away ID cards. Zero cost impact. The rides that were offered were barely utilized. See article below:

http://www.electionlawcenter.com/un...lina-use-free-ride-to-dmv-for-photo-voter-id/

22 people used it. Completely negligible cost to support.

Now that we have established that cost is not a barrier and ride difficulty really isn't either, the likely culprit is simply effort. And the people who don't want to put forth the effort to get an ID are often the ones using the programs that Democrats support, so yes, I assume that this law would have a side benefit of helping the Republican party.

LOL, yes, you proved all of this. It is just that these people are lazy.

Additionally, I am not necessarily good at math but providing 21 million Americans with transportation and ID's will not be a "Zero cost impact" no matter how hard you try to say it.

You still have not even "established" the problem you are so proud you solved.

Regardless, you argument fails to account for the amount of folks who simply did not vote as a result of these laws without simply dismissing them all as lazy. States where they have implemented a strict ID law could be expected to depress Latino turnout by 9.3 points, Black turnout by 8.6 points, and Asian American turnout by 12.5 points.

but before we continue this argument about solutions, could you please "establish" credible evidence of the actual problem you have attempted to solve?

 

[tigerhood74]

too expensive for poor people

photo ids are like 5-10 bucks

passports are like a couple hundred

What is the cost of a green card? At least as much, maybe more than a photo I'd I suspect! We give those out like candy, at tax payer cost...